Over 40% of US Adults have Insulin Resistance

likitisplit

remember, though... our first instinct is to blame the dieter when the diet fails. i see it here every single day... we get multiple posts by people who are frustrated because they're not losing weight. the knee-jerk answers are always "you're not measuring correctly" or "you're overestimating what you eat" or "you're not exercising enough." for some, yes that's the answer. but even when the person says "here's my diary, here's my exercise schedule, why is this not working", people are quick to give the easy, canned answer.

i don't know about you, but i find it incredibly insulting and demoralizing when i say "here's what i'm doing, i'm doing what everyone says is "right", why is this not working?" and i get an answer that equates to " oh it's easy, just eat less and move more. it was easy for me so therefore you're just making excuses and don't really want this badly enough." there are only a few, scattered souls who have the knowledge, the patience, and the compassion to step up and say "ok... let's try some other tactics. have you seen a doctor and discussed these specific topics?"

IRT the daily threads of the "I am not losing threads", a majority of the time, people are't logging daily, they aren't using food scales, they are over estimating calories burned or have only been doing it for a week. This is the general thing I have seen over the past several years. Once that is estimated, its the rare occasion someone actually comes back with an additional post saying they tried all of that and it didn't work. Or in some cases, after 4 pages of debating, they come back saying they have a medical conditions and our answers (or at least mine does) will change.

Addressing accuracy and consistency is the first key (especially for more lean individuals). After that, if a person does come back and has the same results, then you modify it more (changing macronutrients or even possibly cutting out a specific food group). But again, of the thousands of people who I have personally worked with, I can count on one hand that amount of people who have come back with a plan to be adjusted and approach elimination diets or a different dieting style. In fact, that is how my wife found out she had a gluten intolerance.

I would think it would be wrong of our community, to jump to the extreme first (going low carb, cutting XX foods out, etc..) without understand what the person has tried or their medical history. I will say though, there are people on this board that jump to conclusions without knowing facts and will blame dieters, and it is clearly wrong but it's the internet... so having high expectations that everyone will get all the information should be low. :laugh:

As someone who has both type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes (type 1 makes it really hard to lose weight), and Hashimoto's disease (type 1 diabetes and Hashimoto's are auto-immune diseases, not symptoms of being overweight), I have an incredibly difficult time losing weight. It's taken me years to even figure out how to lose weight. At all! So now I'm slowly losing weight, which is the only way I can do so successfully. Sometimes I end up in a plateau for a couple months or longer. Many people can just lose weight quickly and safely, and that is great! But I get annoyed when I do the right things unsuccessfully, so I reach out for help and get called a liar instead. It doesn't help.

The thing is that, if you reach out for help, you've got to mention all that. Because it's relevant to the question.

And if you mention all that, everybody's going to slowly back away because our inexpert advice could land you in the hospital. You should have a team of specialists to direct your questions to.

but sometimes, we're not reaching out to get medical diagnoses... we're looking for others who have also travelled the same road we're on, who have run into the same roadblocks and sludgy progress. we want people to bounce things off, asking "how did you deal with this?" or "hey i read this, i thought you'd be interested."

we come looking for the community and the support. and sometimes, others might be able to identify what questions we should be asking our doctors and what kinds of tests to specifically ask for. because doctors are just as guilty of dismissing patients who are overweight as the rest of us are.

The thing is though, that my experience is going to come from the realm of CICO and you live in the land of PCOS.

So I'll be all like "If you're not losing weight, then you're not tracking accurately" and you'll be all "Oh, no. Are you calling me a liar?"

You might want to try a sub-forum if you're dealing with a health issue that affects weight loss.

Sabine_Stroehm

Advice for insulin resistance and losing weight from the National Institutes of Health:

"Eating, Diet, and Nutrition

Adopting healthy eating habits can help people lose a modest amount of weight and reverse insulin resistance. Experts encourage people to slowly adopt healthy eating habits that they can maintain, rather than trying extreme weight-loss solutions. People may need to get help from a dietitian or join a weight-loss program for support.

In general, people should lose weight by choosing healthy foods, controlling portions, eating less fat, and increasing physical activity. People are better able to lose weight and keep it off when they learn how to adapt their favorite foods to a healthy eating plan.

The DASH (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) eating plan, developed by the NIH, has been shown to be effective in decreasing insulin resistance when combined with weight loss and physical activity. More information on DASH is available at www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/dash."


AND

"The DPP and other large studies proved that people with prediabetes can often prevent or delay diabetes if they lose a modest amount of weight by cutting fat and calorie intake and increasing physical activity—for example, walking 30 minutes a day, 5 days a week."

ALSO

"Approaches to Preventing Diabetes

The DPP tested three approaches to preventing diabetes:

Making lifestyle changes. People in the lifestyle change group exercised, usually by walking 5 days a week for about 30 minutes a day, and lowered their intake of fat and calories.
Taking the diabetes medication metformin. Those who took metformin also received information about physical activity and diet.
Receiving education about diabetes. The third group only received information about physical activity and diet and took a placebo—a pill without medication in it.

People in the lifestyle change group showed the best outcomes. However people who took metformin also benefited. The results showed that by losing an average of 15 pounds in the first year of the study, people in the lifestyle change group reduced their risk of developing type 2 diabetes by 58 percent over 3 years.

Lifestyle change was even more effective in those ages 60 and older. People in this group reduced their risk by 71 percent.

People in the metformin group also benefited, reducing their risk by 31 percent. More information about the DPP, funded under NIH clinical trial number NCT00004992, is available at www.bsc.gwu.edu/dppleaving site icon."

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/

Ah, yes, DASH. Mocked as a "fad" diet on here.

Because if you don't have a problem with hypertension, you don't need to address it.

Have you read about it?

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=18311

:indifferent:

meridianova

remember, though... our first instinct is to blame the dieter when the diet fails. i see it here every single day... we get multiple posts by people who are frustrated because they're not losing weight. the knee-jerk answers are always "you're not measuring correctly" or "you're overestimating what you eat" or "you're not exercising enough." for some, yes that's the answer. but even when the person says "here's my diary, here's my exercise schedule, why is this not working", people are quick to give the easy, canned answer.

i don't know about you, but i find it incredibly insulting and demoralizing when i say "here's what i'm doing, i'm doing what everyone says is "right", why is this not working?" and i get an answer that equates to " oh it's easy, just eat less and move more. it was easy for me so therefore you're just making excuses and don't really want this badly enough." there are only a few, scattered souls who have the knowledge, the patience, and the compassion to step up and say "ok... let's try some other tactics. have you seen a doctor and discussed these specific topics?"

IRT the daily threads of the "I am not losing threads", a majority of the time, people are't logging daily, they aren't using food scales, they are over estimating calories burned or have only been doing it for a week. This is the general thing I have seen over the past several years. Once that is estimated, its the rare occasion someone actually comes back with an additional post saying they tried all of that and it didn't work. Or in some cases, after 4 pages of debating, they come back saying they have a medical conditions and our answers (or at least mine does) will change.

Addressing accuracy and consistency is the first key (especially for more lean individuals). After that, if a person does come back and has the same results, then you modify it more (changing macronutrients or even possibly cutting out a specific food group). But again, of the thousands of people who I have personally worked with, I can count on one hand that amount of people who have come back with a plan to be adjusted and approach elimination diets or a different dieting style. In fact, that is how my wife found out she had a gluten intolerance.

I would think it would be wrong of our community, to jump to the extreme first (going low carb, cutting XX foods out, etc..) without understand what the person has tried or their medical history. I will say though, there are people on this board that jump to conclusions without knowing facts and will blame dieters, and it is clearly wrong but it's the internet... so having high expectations that everyone will get all the information should be low. :laugh:

As someone who has both type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes (type 1 makes it really hard to lose weight), and Hashimoto's disease (type 1 diabetes and Hashimoto's are auto-immune diseases, not symptoms of being overweight), I have an incredibly difficult time losing weight. It's taken me years to even figure out how to lose weight. At all! So now I'm slowly losing weight, which is the only way I can do so successfully. Sometimes I end up in a plateau for a couple months or longer. Many people can just lose weight quickly and safely, and that is great! But I get annoyed when I do the right things unsuccessfully, so I reach out for help and get called a liar instead. It doesn't help.

The thing is that, if you reach out for help, you've got to mention all that. Because it's relevant to the question.

And if you mention all that, everybody's going to slowly back away because our inexpert advice could land you in the hospital. You should have a team of specialists to direct your questions to.

but sometimes, we're not reaching out to get medical diagnoses... we're looking for others who have also travelled the same road we're on, who have run into the same roadblocks and sludgy progress. we want people to bounce things off, asking "how did you deal with this?" or "hey i read this, i thought you'd be interested."

we come looking for the community and the support. and sometimes, others might be able to identify what questions we should be asking our doctors and what kinds of tests to specifically ask for. because doctors are just as guilty of dismissing patients who are overweight as the rest of us are.

The thing is though, that my experience is going to come from the realm of CICO and you live in the land of PCOS.

So I'll be all like "If you're not losing weight, then you're not tracking accurately" and you'll be all "Oh, no. Are you calling me a liar?"

You might want to try a sub-forum if you're dealing with a health issue that affects weight loss.

you're assuming we walk in with a diagnosis. not all of us do. even after having my bloodwork done and thyroid tested, my doctor said i wasn't at risk, however if lindsey1979 hadn't come in to one of the other conversations, i wouldn't have known that my problem might actually be my thyroid after all, especially considering my history. she's given me a direction that i can explore.

three months ago i started going to the gym, thinking that my problem was just a matter of eating less and moving more. and while there are days i wish i'd never started posting on the forums, if i hadn't then i wouldn't be able to go to my next doctor's visit armed with additional information, possibilities, and saying "i've tried this, i added that, i noticed that this other thing happened while that thing didn't happen."

lindsey1979

Number of selected persons . . . . . . 27,631
Number of interviewed persons. . . . . 20,491
Number of examined persons. . . . . 19,644

I'm sorry, but if you can look at that information and not understand why lab results from one point in time and from the specified populations cannot be extrapolated and applied to the general population of the US, then the conversation is going to have to end here, because I'm not going to continue to attempt to have a learned discussion with someone who is going to ignore facts to support their confirmation bias.

If you think it's all hooey, by all means feel free to dismiss it. 20K seems like a very large sample size to me and although some populations are oversampled, there is still quite a considerable breadth of populations. A lot of the peer reviewed studies are focused on a few hundred people at best. Here there is 20K. But, if it doesn't meet with your standards, by all means dismiss it. I'll stick with the American Diabetes Association on this one.

Did you take a good look at the populations who were oversampled? Let's do it, just for fun:

Hispanic persons, non-Hispanic black persons, non-Hispanic non-black Asian persons, low-income non-Hispanic non-black non-Asian white and other persons (at or below 130% of federal poverty level), and adults aged 80 and over

Now, there are three minority groups listed. Here is a list of potential issues when sampling from minority groups, not all-inclusive by any means and not saying that these automatically apply to all people who identify as a minority group, but things any good researcher would consider:

- Limited financial resources
- Limited access to medical care
- Limited access to food/nutrition
- Limited access to education
- Understanding of English language/English not primary language spoken in home

We also have low income persons, for whom the following would also apply and need to be considered:

- Limited financial resources
- Limited access to medical care
- Limited access to food/nutrition
- Limited access to education

And finally, we have our final group, adults age 80 or over:

- Limited financial resources/fixed income
- Limited access to medical care
- Limited access to food/nutrition
- Limited access to education (particularly women and minorities given social constructs during their lifetime)
- Increased likelihood of medical issues due to age regardless of the above

Now, given that those groups were oversampled, and human studies are notorious for not having accurate representation of the population regardless of oversampling because the fact is, people who are financially secure or educated generally aren't going to be enticed to give up their time to participate in a study for a measly stipend or free medical exam, the sample size of 20,000 is not as significant as it would first appear. Especially when you consider that according to the 2012 census, there were over 313 million people in the US. An n=20,000 is a mere 0.00006% of the population.

And that concludes my final attempt to encourage critical thinking and analysis of the data presented. I'm excusing myself from the conversation now, as I see no need to continue to try to elevate the discussion.

First off, they weren't comparing to all 313 Million in the US, just to adults age 20 and over. The actual number of adults age 20 and over is closer to 242M (actually I found that number for 18 and over in 2013, so it's actually lower). Wow. You missed 71M people in there, or 30% more. Considering you're such a stalwart critical thinker, I'm a little surprised you missed that one.

Secondly, what do the other factors you mention (limited education, language, low income, etc.) have to do with having insulin resistance? Sure, it may explain why some groups are more prone to it, but is your argument that people in these groups actually have higher levels of insulin resistance but that doesn't hold true to the total? That those with greater education and financial security have less incidence of insulin resistance?

Lastly, once again, these numbers seem to suggest that this is a BIG problem in the US. Do you believe the sampling is so fundamentally erred that that fundamental conclusion is wrong? That the ADA's reliance on the underlying study is so fundamentally flawed, that the numbers are off 200-1000%. Even if they were off by 100%, that still means 20% of the population has insulin resistance. Or are you just dismissing out of hand because it's simply too difficult to make any conclusions when any populations are oversampled.

Thanks for exiting the conversation. No need to announce it. You can simply leave.

likitisplit

remember, though... our first instinct is to blame the dieter when the diet fails. i see it here every single day... we get multiple posts by people who are frustrated because they're not losing weight. the knee-jerk answers are always "you're not measuring correctly" or "you're overestimating what you eat" or "you're not exercising enough." for some, yes that's the answer. but even when the person says "here's my diary, here's my exercise schedule, why is this not working", people are quick to give the easy, canned answer.

i don't know about you, but i find it incredibly insulting and demoralizing when i say "here's what i'm doing, i'm doing what everyone says is "right", why is this not working?" and i get an answer that equates to " oh it's easy, just eat less and move more. it was easy for me so therefore you're just making excuses and don't really want this badly enough." there are only a few, scattered souls who have the knowledge, the patience, and the compassion to step up and say "ok... let's try some other tactics. have you seen a doctor and discussed these specific topics?"

IRT the daily threads of the "I am not losing threads", a majority of the time, people are't logging daily, they aren't using food scales, they are over estimating calories burned or have only been doing it for a week. This is the general thing I have seen over the past several years. Once that is estimated, its the rare occasion someone actually comes back with an additional post saying they tried all of that and it didn't work. Or in some cases, after 4 pages of debating, they come back saying they have a medical conditions and our answers (or at least mine does) will change.

Addressing accuracy and consistency is the first key (especially for more lean individuals). After that, if a person does come back and has the same results, then you modify it more (changing macronutrients or even possibly cutting out a specific food group). But again, of the thousands of people who I have personally worked with, I can count on one hand that amount of people who have come back with a plan to be adjusted and approach elimination diets or a different dieting style. In fact, that is how my wife found out she had a gluten intolerance.

I would think it would be wrong of our community, to jump to the extreme first (going low carb, cutting XX foods out, etc..) without understand what the person has tried or their medical history. I will say though, there are people on this board that jump to conclusions without knowing facts and will blame dieters, and it is clearly wrong but it's the internet... so having high expectations that everyone will get all the information should be low. :laugh:

As someone who has both type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes (type 1 makes it really hard to lose weight), and Hashimoto's disease (type 1 diabetes and Hashimoto's are auto-immune diseases, not symptoms of being overweight), I have an incredibly difficult time losing weight. It's taken me years to even figure out how to lose weight. At all! So now I'm slowly losing weight, which is the only way I can do so successfully. Sometimes I end up in a plateau for a couple months or longer. Many people can just lose weight quickly and safely, and that is great! But I get annoyed when I do the right things unsuccessfully, so I reach out for help and get called a liar instead. It doesn't help.

The thing is that, if you reach out for help, you've got to mention all that. Because it's relevant to the question.

And if you mention all that, everybody's going to slowly back away because our inexpert advice could land you in the hospital. You should have a team of specialists to direct your questions to.

but sometimes, we're not reaching out to get medical diagnoses... we're looking for others who have also travelled the same road we're on, who have run into the same roadblocks and sludgy progress. we want people to bounce things off, asking "how did you deal with this?" or "hey i read this, i thought you'd be interested."

we come looking for the community and the support. and sometimes, others might be able to identify what questions we should be asking our doctors and what kinds of tests to specifically ask for. because doctors are just as guilty of dismissing patients who are overweight as the rest of us are.

The thing is though, that my experience is going to come from the realm of CICO and you live in the land of PCOS.

So I'll be all like "If you're not losing weight, then you're not tracking accurately" and you'll be all "Oh, no. Are you calling me a liar?"

You might want to try a sub-forum if you're dealing with a health issue that affects weight loss.

you're assuming we walk in with a diagnosis. not all of us do. even after having my bloodwork done and thyroid tested, my doctor said i wasn't at risk, however if lindsey1979 hadn't come in to one of the other conversations, i wouldn't have known that my problem might actually be my thyroid after all, especially considering my history. she's given me a direction that i can explore.

three months ago i started going to the gym, thinking that my problem was just a matter of eating less and moving more. and while there are days i wish i'd never started posting on the forums, if i hadn't then i wouldn't be able to go to my next doctor's visit armed with additional information, possibilities, and saying "i've tried this, i added that, i noticed that this other thing happened while that thing didn't happen."

What I've seen is that if somebody's diary is open and they are obviously weighing and look like they're tracking everything and their calorie goals are in line with their age and weight and they are exercising regularly, etc., they get advised to get checked for a metabolic disorder.

It's just that you've got to go through all the preliminary steps to figure out that it's not those.

When you call tech support and they ask the question "Is the machine plugged in" and they do...every time...you really do need to look at the actual wall socket rather than arguing that it can't be that.

bluntlysally

yes, if you want to walk around "blaming" medical conditions, you are making excuses. i never said this cannot make things more complicated - BUT not nearly as complicated as folks make it out to be... again, back to looking for excuses.

if you want an excuse, you will find an excuse. when you are ready to actually lose weight, you will. only point the finger at yourself - anything else is an excuse.

So the OP is making an excuse?

:yawn:

bluntlysally

how cute? how many "medical issues" or "diseases" do you have? want to go head to head and count??? not a single thing "wrong" with my body is used as an excuse.

and i'm not watching video kid.

if you want an excuse, you will find an excuse. when you are ready to actually lose weight, you will. only point the finger at yourself - anything else is an excuse.

You clearly know nothing about insulin resistance. How cute.

You should probably check this out… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3oI104STzs.

bluntlysally

i have a list as long as my arm. but not a single one is an excuse.

how long is your list??

if you want an excuse, you will find an excuse. when you are ready to actually lose weight, you will. only point the finger at yourself - anything else is an excuse.

No excuses, just knowledge which then empowers the individual to lose the weight. If you have never dealt with such an issue it may come across as such. Good for you that you never have, but leave those whom have alone.

bluntlysally

and the point of this story is great - you didn't allow some label to become an excuse - get educated, make adjustments, and MOVE FORWARD!!!

Ignoring the 5 pages of "low carb yay!" and "low carb nay!"

I am 40 years old, I have been on a diet my whole life. And really, I've always eaten textbook healthy. Fruit, whole grains, low fat, healthy protein. I was a competitive swimmer most of my life. But those pounds, they just kept going up.

I started to have issues. My eyesight was blurry in the morning. I developed psoriasis on my feet. I was sore and tired for hours after working out. I could sleep for 5 hours in the middle of the day.

I went to the doctor to check my feet and eyes. Nobody mentioned diabetes. My parents died when I was very young, so I don't really know about their medical conditions, there was nobody to tell them to me.

I chalked it all up to 40-itis. Then my Type 1 boss tested me for fun. And the numbers were in stroke territory so he made me go to the doctor.

Got sent to diabetic education, and I've lost 40ish pounds since May. I'm actually eating MORE now than I did before. I have to. I've dropped from an 11.2 to a 6.4, which is top of the pre-diabetic range.

The point I'm going to take from this post is that if what you are doing isn't working, maybe it's time to try something else. And maybe time to make your doctor work for his money. I can honestly say that diabetes was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

FatFreeFrolicking

how cute? how many "medical issues" or "diseases" do you have? want to go head to head and count??? not a single thing "wrong" with my body is used as an excuse.

and i'm not watching video kid.

if you want an excuse, you will find an excuse. when you are ready to actually lose weight, you will. only point the finger at yourself - anything else is an excuse.

You clearly know nothing about insulin resistance. How cute.

You should probably check this out… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3oI104STzs.

Let's see…

Crohn's disease
Hypoglycemia
Insulin resistance
PCOS
High cortisol
High TSH (thyroid)
Adrenal fatigue
Heart murmur
Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome
Supra-ventricular tachycardia
Exercise-induced syncope
Anxiety & panic disorder
Osgood-Schlatter
Chondromalacia patella

I feel like **** every day of my life and guess what, I STILL fight through and work my *kitten* off everyday. So thanks for asking

kikityme

Ignoring the 5 pages of "low carb yay!" and "low carb nay!"

I am 40 years old, I have been on a diet my whole life. And really, I've always eaten textbook healthy. Fruit, whole grains, low fat, healthy protein. I was a competitive swimmer most of my life. But those pounds, they just kept going up.

I started to have issues. My eyesight was blurry in the morning. I developed psoriasis on my feet. I was sore and tired for hours after working out. I could sleep for 5 hours in the middle of the day.

I went to the doctor to check my feet and eyes. Nobody mentioned diabetes. My parents died when I was very young, so I don't really know about their medical conditions, there was nobody to tell them to me.

I chalked it all up to 40-itis. Then my Type 1 boss tested me for fun. And the numbers were in stroke territory so he made me go to the doctor.

Got sent to diabetic education, and I've lost 40ish pounds since May. I'm actually eating MORE now than I did before. I have to. I've dropped from an 11.2 to a 6.4, which is top of the pre-diabetic range.

The point I'm going to take from this post is that if what you are doing isn't working, maybe it's time to try something else. And maybe time to make your doctor work for his money. I can honestly say that diabetes was the best thing that ever happened to me.

What the???

If it wasn't for the diagnosis, I would have been exactly where I was 6 months ago. I *needed* an excuse to get healthier. The progress I'm making with myself goes beyond diabetes. The fact that I am doing something that is finally working keeps me motivated to keep going.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

psuLemon

how cute? how many "medical issues" or "diseases" do you have? want to go head to head and count??? not a single thing "wrong" with my body is used as an excuse.

and i'm not watching video kid.

if you want an excuse, you will find an excuse. when you are ready to actually lose weight, you will. only point the finger at yourself - anything else is an excuse.

You clearly know nothing about insulin resistance. How cute.

You should probably check this out… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3oI104STzs.

Let's see…

Crohn's disease
Hypoglycemia
Insulin resistance
PCOS
High cortisol
High TSH (thyroid)
Adrenal fatigue
Heart murmur
Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome
Supra-ventricular tachycardia
Exercise-induced syncope
Anxiety & panic disorder
Osgood-Schlatter
Chondromalacia patella

I feel like **** every day of my life and guess what, I STILL fight through and work my *kitten* off everyday. So thanks for asking

Show off :laugh:

In all seriousness, I personally know people who do use their medical condition as an excuse for why they can't lose weight. I don't feel it's as common on MFP because we are all trying to educate ourselves and lose weight or get fit. I also friend who has celiac and diabetes and is eating a vegan diet and can't understand why she has gained so much weight over the past few months even though the research on both suggest a LCHF diet.

lemurcat12

I think kgeyser has made some good points about the numbers being thrown around. I'm skeptical of 40% too (and the ADA is, among other things, an organization that gets funding based on part on the seriousness of the problem they are fighting, in the public mind). Beyond that, if we are talking about people in the MFP forums, it seems to me common for people to reference being tested for insulin resistance (including in some cases that they are Type II or pre diabetic) so the question is whether that particular aspect is so under diagnosed, at least when the person in question is trying to lose weight, has access to medical care, and is far enough along that it's actually going to make a difference to results. (As with the many people who say that they've been to the doctor and been given a clean bill of health.)

But I will agree that one of the results of the US obesity epidemic is a huge increase in this issue too, so it's not a mere handful and it might well affect some random poster. It's certainly something that should be identified as possibly affecting why some stuff is working or not, at least for a certain kind of poster.

The question becomes how does it change the advice given?

I know I personally always point out that careful logging at a reasonable calorie level, even if the person is convinced it can't work, has as an added benefit that you will have good records to show one's doctor, and always suggest that the person plan on doing so if it doesn't work when everything seems like it should. I also know that this is common advice, not only me.

As for exercise, when people say "I don't want to" or (common) "I can't" exercise, can I still lose? it is normal for them to be reassured that that's okay, you can still lose. Now, based on the first post, maybe Lindsay thinks that's a problem, but they certainly are encouraged to exercise, especially if they show any interest, and they obviously have the preexisting idea (that I personally agree with) that exercising is better than not. No one is saying not to exercise.

And, the big issue, I guess, food choice. I find it to be extremely common (and correct) that when someone says she can't lose or can't stick to a diet and opens the log to show food that pretty obviously would not be satiating to most, that advice along those lines is given. I also see mix of food and what's satiating to be referenced pretty much always, even for less extreme diets, when there is an issue with hunger. And I see people who do low carb or are diabetic jumping in to reference that. I don't see people being hostile to trying things with food choice, either, nor being against people eating healthier diets. Indeed, when people do the "I'm so picky and hate vegetables" posts, they typically get encouraged to get over it, try them different ways, etc.

Of course, on the whole people don't tell posters who are struggling that they must drop grains (which I continue to think is bad advice on a general basis) or that they must do low carb or paleo, etc. And there is an unfriendliness to the idea that people must "cut out" BAD foods. But IMO, the BAD foods posts usually are not made by the struggling people--they are a different variety. And I personally will both say that you don't have to cut things out and that for many that can be counterproductive (although I found experimenting with it on a short term basis useful), and that reducing the prevalence of certain things or changing the diet mix can be quite helpful.

What I find problematic are the posts that give prescriptions like "you can't lose if you are eating too much fruit" or "you must avoid all foods with more than 5 grams of sugar" or "you must not eat foods high on the Glycemic Index or it will automatically become fat even if you are eating in a deficit." Quite often (and there is an example in a thread here right now) this kind of advice is given before anyone even knows what the person is eating. The GI thing is especially abused, IMO, in that while there are reasons to prefer whole grain bread to white, say, the GI seems the least of it, and is used as a recommendation against all kinds of crazy things (like fruit) or other foods (like potatoes) that are never eaten by themselves so the GI would be misleading.

Now, if the point is merely that people should point out that experimenting with food choice can be helpful, I agree, but that already occurs. If it's that people should be advised to see their doctors, especially if they are doing everything seemingly "right" and it's not working, same, and same.

If it is--as frankly I think it is intended--supposed to be a claim that over half of the posters here can't do anything to lose, that they are helpless and merely should be reassured of that, then I think there is a misunderstanding not only of the numbers but of what insulin resistance means. It's worth noting that the majority of the posters who seem to want to be recognized and reassured in their helplessness are not the ones struggling with medical diagnoses. Those usually seem to understand their challenges and be trying to address them. It's the people who claim they can't change how they are eating because they have no time to do anything but get fast food or who say they can't eat vegetables or can't help but overeat (often because of what parents or their spouse or others around them do), etc. Maybe it's just the posts I look at, but those are the ones that seem to get other posters frustrated. Not ones that show someone trying and continuing to be unsuccessful. Those get "see your doctor."

kikityme

If it wasn't for the diagnosis, I would have been exactly where I was 6 months ago. I *needed* an excuse to get healthier. The progress I'm making with myself goes beyond diabetes. The fact that I am doing something that is finally working keeps me motivated to keep going.

Wouldn't not having gained all the weight prevented you from developing diabetes?
[/quote]

Not necessarily. Getting fat didn't "give" me diabetes. I am genetically disposed to it. Otherwise, every fat person on the planet would have it. Otherwise there would be no thin people with Type II. I got fat because I was trying to lose weight the same way every one else was, and it didn't work for me. There was some complacency, and I convinced myself this was how my body was supposed to be.

parkscs

If it is--as frankly I think it is intended--supposed to be a claim that over half of the posters here can't do anything to lose, that they are helpless and merely should be reassured of that, then I think there is a misunderstanding not only of the numbers but of what insulin resistance means. It's worth noting that the majority of the posters who seem to want to be recognized and reassured in their helplessness are not the ones struggling with medical diagnoses. Those usually seem to understand their challenges and be trying to address them. It's the people who claim they can't change how they are eating because they have no time to do anything but get fast food or who say they can't eat vegetables or can't help but overeat (often because of what parents or their spouse or others around them do), etc. Maybe it's just the posts I look at, but those are the ones that seem to get other posters frustrated. Not ones that show someone trying and continuing to be unsuccessful. Those get "see your doctor."

I didn't really get that impression from the post at all. We can debate whether the percentages are exaggerated and the accuracy with which they were calculated, but I think the OP was simply directed at trying to educate some people that these conditions are more common than some might think not because it gives people an excuse for not losing, but more to counter the typical backlash when anyone mentions doing a LCHF diet. I don't think a day goes past when I don't see a response to someone trying to do a LCHF diet along the lines of "you don't need to restrict anything, eat yummy carbs!" and a few pictures of cookies thrown in for good measure, when in reality the number of people who might benefit from a lower carb macro is relatively high. Of course, there are drawbacks to LCHF diets as well and even some people with a mild resistance to insulin may have worse success on a LCHF due to, e.g., poor adherence. I'd say that a substantial majority of people do not need to concern themselves with reducing carbs, but there are quite a few people who genuinely seem to believe there is no place for LCHF diet for anyone, regardless of their circumstances, and that's simply not the case.

But as we've said before, I think we all tend to look at these posts a bit differently. I'm sort of neutral on the whole matter, but put yourselves in the shoes of someone who struggled for years eating a higher carb macro due to undiagnosed PCOS and who finally saw some success in weight management once their doctor diagnosed their PCOS and put them on a LCHF diet (which isn't that uncommon of a story). Is it really surprising that person might react with some frustration when they see a post about someone doing a LCHF diet and getting told that's a waste of time and that they should eat yummy ice cream instead? While I don't really think it's productive to push LCHF on the average person, I also think it's ignorant to rail against LCHF as a fruitless effort destined to fail regardless of the context - and you see both situations pretty frequently around here.

Unknown

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Sabine_Stroehm

If it is--as frankly I think it is intended--supposed to be a claim that over half of the posters here can't do anything to lose, that they are helpless and merely should be reassured of that, then I think there is a misunderstanding not only of the numbers but of what insulin resistance means. It's worth noting that the majority of the posters who seem to want to be recognized and reassured in their helplessness are not the ones struggling with medical diagnoses. Those usually seem to understand their challenges and be trying to address them. It's the people who claim they can't change how they are eating because they have no time to do anything but get fast food or who say they can't eat vegetables or can't help but overeat (often because of what parents or their spouse or others around them do), etc. Maybe it's just the posts I look at, but those are the ones that seem to get other posters frustrated. Not ones that show someone trying and continuing to be unsuccessful. Those get "see your doctor."

I didn't really get that impression from the post at all. We can debate whether the percentages are exaggerated and the accuracy with which they were calculated, but I think the OP was simply directed at trying to educate some people that these conditions are more common than some might think not because it gives people an excuse for not losing, but more to counter the typical backlash when anyone mentions doing a LCHF diet. I don't think a day goes past when I don't see a response to someone trying to do a LCHF diet along the lines of "you don't need to restrict anything, eat yummy carbs!" and a few pictures of cookies thrown in for good measure, when in reality the number of people who might benefit from a lower carb macro is relatively high. Of course, there are drawbacks to LCHF diets as well and even some people with a mild resistance to insulin may have worse success on a LCHF due to, e.g., poor adherence. I'd say that a substantial majority of people do not need to concern themselves with reducing carbs, but there are quite a few people who genuinely seem to believe there is no place for LCHF diet for anyone, regardless of their circumstances, and that's simply not the case.

But as we've said before, I think we all tend to look at these posts a bit differently. I'm sort of neutral on the whole matter, but put yourselves in the shoes of someone who struggled for years eating a higher carb macro due to undiagnosed PCOS and who finally saw some success in weight management once their doctor diagnosed their PCOS and put them on a LCHF diet (which isn't that uncommon of a story). Is it really surprising that person might react with some frustration when they see a post about someone doing a LCHF diet and getting told that's a waste of time and that they should eat yummy ice cream instead? While I don't really think it's productive to push LCHF on the average person, I also think it's ignorant to rail against LCHF as a fruitless effort destined to fail regardless of the context - and you see both situations pretty frequently around here.

I didn't take the OP that way either. This thread came on the heels of no less than THREE long threads about the new low carb study. She created a new thread, to approach the conversation of the potential benefits of a low carb diet a different way, as I understood it.
But once again, perception seems to be key here.

lindsey1979

If it is--as frankly I think it is intended--supposed to be a claim that over half of the posters here can't do anything to lose, that they are helpless and merely should be reassured of that, then I think there is a misunderstanding not only of the numbers but of what insulin resistance means. It's worth noting that the majority of the posters who seem to want to be recognized and reassured in their helplessness are not the ones struggling with medical diagnoses. Those usually seem to understand their challenges and be trying to address them. It's the people who claim they can't change how they are eating because they have no time to do anything but get fast food or who say they can't eat vegetables or can't help but overeat (often because of what parents or their spouse or others around them do), etc. Maybe it's just the posts I look at, but those are the ones that seem to get other posters frustrated. Not ones that show someone trying and continuing to be unsuccessful. Those get "see your doctor."

I didn't really get that impression from the post at all. We can debate whether the percentages are exaggerated and the accuracy with which they were calculated, but I think the OP was simply directed at trying to educate some people that these conditions are more common than some might think not because it gives people an excuse for not losing, but more to counter the typical backlash when anyone mentions doing a LCHF diet. I don't think a day goes past when I don't see a response to someone trying to do a LCHF diet along the lines of "you don't need to restrict anything, eat yummy carbs!" and a few pictures of cookies thrown in for good measure, when in reality the number of people who might benefit from a lower carb macro is relatively high. Of course, there are drawbacks to LCHF diets as well and even some people with a mild resistance to insulin may have worse success on a LCHF due to, e.g., poor adherence. I'd say that a substantial majority of people do not need to concern themselves with reducing carbs, but there are quite a few people who genuinely seem to believe there is no place for LCHF diet for anyone, regardless of their circumstances, and that's simply not the case.

But as we've said before, I think we all tend to look at these posts a bit differently. I'm sort of neutral on the whole matter, but put yourselves in the shoes of someone who struggled for years eating a higher carb macro due to undiagnosed PCOS and who finally saw some success in weight management once their doctor diagnosed their PCOS and put them on a LCHF diet (which isn't that uncommon of a story). Is it really surprising that person might react with some frustration when they see a post about someone doing a LCHF diet and getting told that's a waste of time and that they should eat yummy ice cream instead? While I don't really think it's productive to push LCHF on the average person, I also think it's ignorant to rail against LCHF as a fruitless effort destined to fail regardless of the context - and you see both situations pretty frequently around here.

It is funny how some people come to certain conclusions. My original post specifically listed out things that can help people with IR as well as point out how prevalent it is in the US, and yet someone reads that and draws the conclusion that it is "supposed to be a claim that over half of the posters here can't do anything to lose, that they are helpless and merely should be reassured of that". If it was just an excuse to do nothing, why specifically mention things that CAN HELP you DO SOMETHING.

How people with these sorts of gaps in logic survive in their daily lives is beyond me.

psuLemon

If it wasn't for the diagnosis, I would have been exactly where I was 6 months ago. I *needed* an excuse to get healthier. The progress I'm making with myself goes beyond diabetes. The fact that I am doing something that is finally working keeps me motivated to keep going.

Wouldn't not having gained all the weight prevented you from developing diabetes?

Not necessarily. Getting fat didn't "give" me diabetes. I am genetically disposed to it. Otherwise, every fat person on the planet would have it. Otherwise there would be no thin people with Type II. I got fat because I was trying to lose weight the same way every one else was, and it didn't work for me. There was some complacency, and I convinced myself this was how my body was supposed to be.
[/quote]

Suggesting that you got fat from dieting seems a bit disingenuous. If you were dieting it would insinuate that you were overweight at the beginning of the journey. And when you say you dieted like everyone else do you mean you picked a fad diet? Or did you start with a food scale and some basic information?

T1DCarnivoreRunner

If it wasn't for the diagnosis, I would have been exactly where I was 6 months ago. I *needed* an excuse to get healthier. The progress I'm making with myself goes beyond diabetes. The fact that I am doing something that is finally working keeps me motivated to keep going.

Wouldn't not having gained all the weight prevented you from developing diabetes?

Not necessarily. Getting fat didn't "give" me diabetes. I am genetically disposed to it. Otherwise, every fat person on the planet would have it. Otherwise there would be no thin people with Type II. I got fat because I was trying to lose weight the same way every one else was, and it didn't work for me. There was some complacency, and I convinced myself this was how my body was supposed to be.

Yes it may be in your genetics but you could have taken preventative measures against it. So saying diabetes was the best thing that ever happened to you when you could have done something to try being in this position to begin with.

I'm going to weigh in on this (pun intended) as someone who has both type 1 and type 2 diabetes (these are different diseases and should be called different things because of the consistent confusion, but that is a different discussion). I'm not a doctor, but I've had more training on type 1 diabetes than most GP's, and I have always closely followed new studies as they become available. Though I know more about both types of diabetes than most people simply because I've always paid close attention, I have much more expertise on type 1 diabetes than I do on type 2 diabetes.

Most type 2 diabetics are overweight. Not 100% are, but the percentage of overweight diabetics is much higher than the percentage of overweight people in the population as a whole. The reasons for that are much better understood scientifically than the reasons for why someone who is not overweight gets type 2 diabetes. Being overweight is a significant contributing factor, but is not the only factor. This is why some thin people have type 2 diabetes and why some fat people do not. I will add that some thin people who are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes are misdiagnosed - the ones who eventually find out that they have type 1, and got it later in life with a longer "honeymoon stage" (these people are considered to have type 1.5 or LADA). As of more recently, this shouldn't be happening any more (but it does) because there are now tests to see if one has the antibodies that cause type 1 diabetes.

As far as genetics, I would be interested in someone pointing to the genes that cause type 2 diabetes. There are specific haplogroups that have been traced to carryin the genes for type 1 diabetes, but again... that is a completely different disease. There has always been this assumption that type 2 diabetes is genetic because "someone in my family tree had it too." But I'm interested to know if there is more than circumstantial evidence to support that claim.

lindsey1979

As far as genetics, I would be interested in someone pointing to the genes that cause type 2 diabetes. There are specific haplogroups that have been traced to carryin the genes for type 1 diabetes, but again... that is a completely different disease. There has always been this assumption that type 2 diabetes is genetic because "someone in my family tree had it too." But I'm interested to know if there is more than circumstantial evidence to support that claim.

I don't think they know nearly as much about Type II/insulin resistance origins, but they see it in a variety of scenarios -- people with PCOS, people with long untreated thyroid disorders, others that don't seem to have any of these issues except the insulin resistance/Type II (both overweight and normal weight, though far more overweight). It's possible that there is more than one origin and insulin resistance/Type II is the body's way of compensating for some other lacking/hormonal imbalance which then later develops into its own disease/disorder. Or overeating in some cases is what greatly contributes/causes it. Or that at least has been what I've discussed with my doctor and seen in literature.

lizarddev

So if it's 43.3% of EVERYONE and insulin resistance makes it difficult to lose/maintain weight (weight gain is one of the symptoms), it's not a stretch to think that it's wholly possible, if not even likely, that over 50% of overweight/obese people have insulin resistance.

yeah it is a stretch because you are essentially trying to double count obese people.

Here is one study by the CDC and it does not say 40%, It is more like 69% in 2011 and 2012 study.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

lindsey1979

So if it's 43.3% of EVERYONE and insulin resistance makes it difficult to lose/maintain weight (weight gain is one of the symptoms), it's not a stretch to think that it's wholly possible, if not even likely, that over 50% of overweight/obese people have insulin resistance.

yeah it is a stretch because you are essentially trying to double count obese people.

Here is one study by the CDC and it does not say 40%, It is more like 69% in 2011 and 2012 study.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

40% (well, 43.3%) is for those that have insulin resistance in the general adult population. 69% is for those that are obese or overweight in the population (can't remember if this is just adults or total population).

That's why I thought it's possible that more than half of obese/overweight people may have insulin resistance if 43.3% of the total adult population has it.

lemurcat12

I didn't take the OP that way either. This thread came on the heels of no less than THREE long threads about the new low carb study. She created a new thread, to approach the conversation of the potential benefits of a low carb diet a different way, as I understood it.
But once again, perception seems to be key here.

I'm reading it based on the context and especially the maddening discussion in the low carb study thread where what started as a hashing out of what the study meant became a weird series of complaints about how CICO was offensive to other posters who were self-proclaimed special snowflakes (although nothing they said suggested that CICO didn't work for them) and how pointing this out was the equivalent of calling people "fat liars." So I thought it was worth going through in detail this allegedly objectionable advice that shows some supposed vast misunderstanding of reality. That's what my post addressed.

Besides, having participated in the other thread, I don't think that people were arguing that low carb couldn't be an excellent approach for some people, especially people with pre diabetes or the like. What was causing disagreement was (a) the idea that low carb is inherently the best approach for everyone (as the media was kind of flogging the study) and (b) that low carb trumps CICO (as proclaimed by 50-year-old guy).

lemurcat12

more to counter the typical backlash when anyone mentions doing a LCHF diet. I don't think a day goes past when I don't see a response to someone trying to do a LCHF diet along the lines of "you don't need to restrict anything, eat yummy carbs!" and a few pictures of cookies thrown in for good measure, when in reality the number of people who might benefit from a lower carb macro is relatively high.

I agree with you that people interested in low carb should try it and it could be a good strategy. (People not interested are probably the ones who would have an adherence issue. I tried a paleo-like diet briefly because I don't care about carbs as much as other foods, and cutting grains is not IMO necessary, as it happens, but also no big thing for me.) My impression of MFP is that cutting carbs is not all that uncommon, although that doesn't mean that people are pro LCHF. Personally, I cut carbs (to under 100, so not low carb, and raised them when I started working out more, since I do endurance stuff and find carbs help). I don't disagree that there's some knee jerk anti LCHF stuff, if just because there's some general anti any kind official "diet" stuff, but I see FAR more people proclaim that it is NECESSARY to do something like cut fruit for everyone than I do people saying no one should do LCHF. So I do think a lot of the negativity is a reaction to the evangelists.

But as you say, our perceptions will differ. I'll note that when I was cutting carbs some, though, I felt like everyone I ran into around here was doing something similar (more in groups than the debate part of the forums, I suppose, but I do think low protein or low fat get way more flack even here).

I'd say that a substantial majority of people do not need to concern themselves with reducing carbs, but there are quite a few people who genuinely seem to believe there is no place for LCHF diet for anyone, regardless of their circumstances, and that's simply not the case.

I completely agree with this. That, to me, is not what this thread was intended to say, however.

lemurcat12

My original post specifically listed out things that can help people with IR

Which were all specifically discussed in my post, as well as the fact that they are commonly given as advice already, even to generic posters and posters without IR, so again the purpose of the post seems to be something else, something apparent from the background discussion in the other thread that led to this one.

lindsey1979

My original post specifically listed out things that can help people with IR

Which were all specifically discussed in my post, as well as the fact that they are commonly given as advice already, even to generic posters and posters without IR, so again the purpose of the post seems to be something else, something apparent from the background discussion in the other thread that led to this one.

Part of it -- aside from the helpful steps -- was to shed light on how incredibly common IR is and how many people don't know about it (75% of those that have it!!!). As many (including you I believe), say, sure it's great/okay if you have IR...but for those that don't, it's not necessary. But that presupposes that everyone knows that they have IR -- and the vast majority don't know.

Most people don't seem to know how incredibly common it is (over 40% of the adult population), and it's also to counter people that say (not you) that such issues are exceedingly rare -- just a handful (as stated in this thread itself), 1% or lower, etc. -- and that simply is NOT true. And is a perception that needs to change.

So, you can read any other nefarious intents into the post that you want, but they simply don't exist.

mariposa224

Telling people with insulin resistance, thyroid disorder, PCOS, etc. to simply keep cutting calories not a healthy solution AT ALL. And can be downright dangerous for some.

but that's why it's up to them to go to their doctor and rule those things out first?

very few people on these forums are doctors or able to give people blood tests simply by reading their post. for the majority of people (as implied in your own OP) calories in and calories are all that matters. it's also pretty much assumed that people who are asking for advice have been to the doctor.

you cant very well expect the people who are asked for their advice and opinion to know intimate details of an OP's health :laugh:

Since over 75% of the people with insulin resistance don't know about it -- it seems like either people aren't discussing it with their doctors (I didn't know about it until recently myself) or the doctors aren't diagnosing it properly.

So, I offered up some scary statistics about how common it is, how it can make people trying to lose/maintain weight very difficult and some things that can help them with that journey that don't involve medication or going to the doctor (frequent exercise, reducing carbs).

A calorie is not just a calorie for people with insulin resistance. The source of that calorie -- carb, fat or protein -- makes a HUGE difference for many of them because of the way their bodies metabolize glucose. Why is this such a big deal?

I have hypothyroidism which was diagnosed 6 years ago. At the time, I was also called "pre-diabetic," which I believe is another term for "insulin resistance." I lost weight after my diagnosis. I was put on Synthroid and Metformin. I lost the weight by working out, which, of course probably balanced out the calories in vs calories out bit. I tried watching what I ate to an extent, but was never told to watch carbs or whatever, I just tried to eat less. I lost about 40 lbs, which was all I really needed to lose, so I was good. Fast forward to 2011. I got "too busy" to workout anymore. I have a metabolic disorder. Stopping the extra exercise allowed my body to go back to the crappier metabolism, as I wasn't doing anything to encourage it to do better. I started working out again in 2012, after having regained 15-20 lbs of the weight I'd lost. I lost the weight and reached my goal 4 months after I started working out again. Oh, and I stopped taking the Metformin (with my doctor's consent) at least 2-3 years ago. I'm no longer pre-diabetic/insulin resistant. My numbers are good.

I say all of this to say that one recipe doesn't work for everyone. Sure, carbs may have more of an effect on some than others, but that doesn't mean it's the be-all-end-all solution. For me, I have to keep an eye on what I eat and I *HAVE* to exercise. I only work out about 30-40 minutes 3-5 times per week, but that's kept me at maintenance for 2 years.