Keto diet

baconslave

Seems the logical thing would be to do some research of side effects before one radically (and arbitrarily) throws their body completely out of whack.

What are these alleged side effects? Weight loss? Decrease in depression? Increased energy?
People keep saying "Gasp! Side effects! Negative effects!" But never provide them. This is imaginary fear-mongering.


This is my POV:
You don't like keto? Cool with me. But don't spew misinformation. I don't chime in when I don't know what I am talking about. I expect others to follow the same standards. Be specific if you know something.

Educate yourselves, my people! :laugh: More education isn't poisonous and has many good benefits. One of which would be me not having to correct misinformation as often. Hmmm....baconslave talking less.....has promise, doesn't it?

Edit: because my fingers are apparently drunk...

baconslave

On a side note, power to those who can do these Keto diets. I know I personally cannot or I would never have the energy required in the workouts I do. Before someone comes and bashes me...let me top that last sentence off with, at least that's how my body reacts. Not all!

Yea it's really individualistic. I've know people who low carb and enjoy it and other who prefer a higher carb intake.

I actually agree with you. Every body is different. Ketosis isn't guaranteed to provide weight loss. (There is optimal ketosis and there is not.) Nor does everything work for everyone. The body's reaction is as individual as DNA.

tennisdude2004

Seems the logical thing would be to do some research of side effects before one radically (and arbitrarily) throws their body completely out of whack.

What are these alleged side effects? Weight loss? Decrease in depression? Increased energy?
People keep saying "Gasp! Side effects! Negative effects!" But never provide them. This is imaginary fear-mongering.


This is my POV:
You don't like keto? Cool with me. But don't spew misinformation. I don't chime in when I don't know what I am talking about. I expect others to follow the same standards. Be specific if you know something.

Educate yourselves, my people! :laugh: More education isn't poisonous and has many good benefits. One of which would be me not having to correct misinformation as often. Hmmm....baconslave talking less.....has promise, doesn't it?

Edit: because my fingers are apparently drunk...

+1

meridianova

Seems the logical thing would be to do some research of side effects before one radically (and arbitrarily) throws their body completely out of whack.

What are these alleged side effects? Weight loss? Decrease in depression? Increased energy?
People keep saying "Gasp! Side effects! Negative effects!" But never provide them. This is imaginary fear-mongering.


This is my POV:
You don't like keto? Cool with me. But don't spew misinformation. I don't chime in when I don't know what I am talking about. I expect others to follow the same standards. Be specific if you know something.

Educate yourselves, my people! :laugh: More education isn't poisonous and has many good benefits. One of which would be me not having to correct misinformation as often. Hmmm....baconslave talking less.....has promise, doesn't it?

Edit: because my fingers are apparently drunk...

don't forget about the asploding kidneys! :laugh:

baconslave

Seems the logical thing would be to do some research of side effects before one radically (and arbitrarily) throws their body completely out of whack.

What are these alleged side effects? Weight loss? Decrease in depression? Increased energy?
People keep saying "Gasp! Side effects! Negative effects!" But never provide them. This is imaginary fear-mongering.


This is my POV:
You don't like keto? Cool with me. But don't spew misinformation. I don't chime in when I don't know what I am talking about. I expect others to follow the same standards. Be specific if you know something.

Educate yourselves, my people! :laugh: More education isn't poisonous and has many good benefits. One of which would be me not having to correct misinformation as often. Hmmm....baconslave talking less.....has promise, doesn't it?

Edit: because my fingers are apparently drunk...

don't forget about the asploding kidneys! :laugh:

Dying...

meridianova

On a side note, power to those who can do these Keto diets. I know I personally cannot or I would never have the energy required in the workouts I do. Before someone comes and bashes me...let me top that last sentence off with, at least that's how my body reacts. Not all!

Yea it's really individualistic. I've know people who low carb and enjoy it and other who prefer a higher carb intake.

I actually agree with you. Every body is different. Ketosis isn't guaranteed to provide weight loss. (There is optimal ketosis and there is not.) Nor does everything work for everyone. The body's reaction is as individual as DNA.

this holds just as true for trying to calculate caloric deficits. regardless of the various methods for calculating caloric burn, not everyone is going to come close to the projected averages. just as keto-based diets are going to effect each person differently, so will the caloric deficit method vary. based on the last 3 months of hard data i've accumulated, i already know my metabolism is way at the low end of the curve (possibly even too low to be on the bell curve). that means i can't rely on supposed caloric deficits alone to lose weight. i have to do something else... which means eating foods that ensure i'm burning stored fat for energy rather than foods that will pump me full of glucose and force me to burn off that before i ever get to burning stored fat.

the human body doesn't just treat any old calories the same. if it did, we could eat any substance that burned and still function.

http://www.olsonnd.com/where-do-calories-go/

xmichaelyx

There really is no reason to go on a keto diet. It won't help you lose more fat, it will just help wtih water weight. Which goes away on its own when you drink more water anyways.

...

And how exactly is it going to make you lose more fat than a standard caloric deficit. Please come back with a good answer not nonsense.

Keto is the easiest way to lose weight FOR SOME PEOPLE. After the first 3 days, you never get hungry and you don't get cravings, so keeping your calories low is ridiculously easy.

To the OP - I can always tell when I'm in ketosis because it leaves a distinctive taste in my mouth. It's hard to explain, but once you do it a few times, you know what to look for. (Also, I don't do keto diets anymore because I like drinking too much.)

tennisdude2004

Seems the logical thing would be to do some research of side effects before one radically (and arbitrarily) throws their body completely out of whack.

What are these alleged side effects? Weight loss? Decrease in depression? Increased energy?
People keep saying "Gasp! Side effects! Negative effects!" But never provide them. This is imaginary fear-mongering.


This is my POV:
You don't like keto? Cool with me. But don't spew misinformation. I don't chime in when I don't know what I am talking about. I expect others to follow the same standards. Be specific if you know something.

Educate yourselves, my people! :laugh: More education isn't poisonous and has many good benefits. One of which would be me not having to correct misinformation as often. Hmmm....baconslave talking less.....has promise, doesn't it?

Edit: because my fingers are apparently drunk...

don't forget about the asploding kidneys! :laugh:

Dying...

Lol

baconslave

On a side note, power to those who can do these Keto diets. I know I personally cannot or I would never have the energy required in the workouts I do. Before someone comes and bashes me...let me top that last sentence off with, at least that's how my body reacts. Not all!

Yea it's really individualistic. I've know people who low carb and enjoy it and other who prefer a higher carb intake.

I actually agree with you. Every body is different. Ketosis isn't guaranteed to provide weight loss. (There is optimal ketosis and there is not.) Nor does everything work for everyone. The body's reaction is as individual as DNA.

this holds just as true for trying to calculate caloric deficits. regardless of the various methods for calculating caloric burn, not everyone is going to come close to the projected averages. just as keto-based diets are going to effect each person differently, so will the caloric deficit method vary. based on the last 3 months of hard data i've accumulated, i already know my metabolism is way at the low end of the curve (possibly even too low to be on the bell curve). that means i can't rely on supposed caloric deficits alone to lose weight. i have to do something else... which means eating foods that ensure i'm burning stored fat for energy rather than foods that will pump me full of glucose and force me to burn off that before i ever get to burning stored fat.

the human body doesn't just treat any old calories the same. if it did, we could eat any substance that burned and still function.

http://www.olsonnd.com/where-do-calories-go/

Agreed. I've done plain calorie counting, and I don't lose nearly as well, steadily, or fast as when I am doing keto.
And I don't have the issue of mad carb-cravings that drive me over the edge with keto either.

It's excellent for me. But it doesn't work for everyone. Just as calorie deficit isn't efficient for some on its own. There is often more than one variable in an equation. Research, find your variables, and work it.

And going around dogging ways of eating you don't understand is a waste of your focus and energy in that pursuit, IMO.

PatchEFog

Blanket statements like this are the reason so many arguments start. Holding protein levels stable, there is no science to support this.

There really is no reason to go on a keto diet. It won't help you lose more fat, it will just help wtih water weight. Which goes away on its own when you drink more water anyways.

Unfortunately, blanket statements like this go unchallenged by moderation. Puzzling how that works.

psuLemon

Blanket statements like this are the reason so many arguments start. Holding protein levels stable, there is no science to support this.

There really is no reason to go on a keto diet. It won't help you lose more fat, it will just help wtih water weight. Which goes away on its own when you drink more water anyways.

Unfortunately, blanket statements like this go unchallenged by moderation. Puzzling how that works.

To provide you some education, moderators are here to ensure the below guidelines are followed:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines


As you can see, moderators do not check for the validity of statements. Generally the way the internet works (especially forums if you are new to that scene), is a person makes an absurd claim, the majority challenge it, and then the person who makes the claim has to provide science to back their claim. But if you want, I can start with actual science:

Abstract - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16685046
Full Text - http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.long

"KLC [keto low carb] and NLC [non ket low carb] diets were equally effective in reducing body weight and insulin resistance, but the KLC diet was associated with several adverse metabolic and emotional effects. The use of ketogenic diets for weight loss is not warranted."

baconslave

Blanket statements like this are the reason so many arguments start. Holding protein levels stable, there is no science to support this.

There really is no reason to go on a keto diet. It won't help you lose more fat, it will just help wtih water weight. Which goes away on its own when you drink more water anyways.

Unfortunately, blanket statements like this go unchallenged by moderation. Puzzling how that works.

To provide you some education, moderators are here to ensure the below guidelines are followed:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines


As you can see, moderators do not check for the validity of statements. Generally the way the internet works (especially forums if you are new to that scene), is a person makes an absurd claim, the majority challenge it, and then the person who makes the claim has to provide science to back their claim. But if you want, I can start with actual science:

Abstract - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16685046
Full Text - http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.long

"KLC [keto low carb] and NLC [non ket low carb] diets were equally effective in reducing body weight and insulin resistance, but the KLC diet was associated with several adverse metabolic and emotional effects. The use of ketogenic diets for weight loss is not warranted."


And I know, I should pick up Phinney and Volek have a book called The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance, but I like to see unbiased research, someone pushing a particular lifestyle.

Hmmm...for adverse metabolic effects they cite LDL increase, but generally that is because they ignore particle size. Actually the larger the particle, the less of an issue LDL level is. Larger particles are less dense than smaller ones, and much less likely to cause plaque build-up. If they didn't test particle size, it's questionable how determinable the "high-LDL" number is. Particle size makes a difference. The study tested only for concentration, not particle size.

Viewed under an electron microscope, some LDL particles appear large, while others are small and dense. Surprisingly, the big, buoyant LDL particles are relatively benign. It’s their bantam-sized counterparts that do more of the damage. That’s because small, dense LDL particles seem better able to slip through the cells that line the walls of arteries. These small LDL particles are also more readily oxidized, and only oxidized LDL can enter the macrophages in the lining of the arteries and form cholesterol- rich plaques. (http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com/reports/heart_health/1886-1.html)

Also, the cardiac issues mentioned were only referenced to other studies which were done on children.

As far as emotional effects, I saw no data about the emotional effects the study mentioned, except in mentioning another study. I imagine carb-withdrawl might make a person cranky in the beginning. But I honestly am happy, have little to no depression any more, and feel motivated to workout more than I have on any other diet.

EBRE44

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headofphat

There really is no reason to go on a keto diet. It won't help you lose more fat, it will just help wtih water weight. Which goes away on its own when you drink more water anyways.

Calculate your TDEE, eat enough calories (20% below TDEE), eat more than 10g of carbs because you're obviously lacking in micronutrients as well as macronutrients now.

This doesn't answer the OP's question at all. But thanks for playing.

baconslave

There really is no reason to go on a keto diet. It won't help you lose more fat, it will just help wtih water weight. Which goes away on its own when you drink more water anyways.

Calculate your TDEE, eat enough calories (20% below TDEE), eat more than 10g of carbs because you're obviously lacking in micronutrients as well as macronutrients now.

This doesn't answer the OP's question at all. But thanks for playing.

Agreed. But it's par for the course on keto/low-carb threads.

I do agree though, that if you are dizzy, there is something abnormal going on. Even when I was <10g daily, I didn't have any dizziness. So tweak things and again, electrolytes.

Raclex

Um, so what happens when you start eating carbs again? Or do you not? Just curious...

baconslave

Um, so what happens when you start eating carbs again? Or do you not? Just curious...

Generally, for maintenance, you increase your carb count little by little until you stop losing. Or until you start gaining, and then scale it right back to just under what it took for you to gain. So you still count the carbs, but your level of consumption goes up a little to stop the weight loss. What you don't do is just stop having portion control and go about eating everything in sight. Which goes for any other non-keto person in maintenance as well.

peter56765

Um, so what happens when you start eating carbs again? Or do you not? Just curious...

You gain the weight back. I did low carb for about a year and a half. Yes, I lost weight. Yes, it beat down the hunger beast. BUT the diet is pretty damn monotonous. You essentially shut yourself out of about 90% of all restaurant food and 2/3rds of the aisles at the grocery store. So, yeah, I gained it all back and then some.

Let's face it folks, there is just too much yummy food out there that has a lot of carbs in it. A life without birthday cake, moose tracks ice cream, fetticine alfredo, and cinnamon streusel bread is not worth living IMHO. Nowadays, I just count calories and if I go over on one day, I make it up the next day. Easy peasy.

hookilau

Um, so what happens when you start eating carbs again? Or do you not? Just curious...

I suppose that depends on your reasons for eating a Ketogenic diet.

For me, nothing spectacular happens.

I've lost 30+ pounds eating this way & since all of my markers for illness have either diminished or simply gone away, I plan to continue eating this way.

My lifts are progressing at the gym, and I'm adding more weight every week to all the big exercises & most of the smaller ones.
My body fat is decreasing.
I feel energetic & I'm able to keep to a caloric limit.
My blood sugars are within normal range reliably.

What's to go back to?

hookilau

Um, so what happens when you start eating carbs again? Or do you not? Just curious...

You gain the weight back. I did low carb for about a year and a half. Yes, I lost weight. Yes, it beat down the hunger beast. BUT the diet is pretty damn monotonous. You essentially shut yourself out of about 90% of all restaurant food and 2/3rds of the aisles at the grocery store. So, yeah, I gained it all back and then some.

Let's face it folks, there is just too much yummy food out there that has a lot of carbs in it. A life without birthday cake, moose tracks ice cream, fetticine alfredo, and cinnamon streusel bread is not worth living IMHO. Nowadays, I just count calories and if I go over on one day, I make it up the next day. Easy peasy.

I eat alredo sauce all the time, but on veggies like cauliflower, zucchini etc. I eat sweets too...my birthday rolled around and I had homemade cheesecake that was quite delicious.

I also eat non-keto things from time to time.

Guess what happens?

Nothing. If I go over one day, I make it up the next day, very much like you do.

I went to my mom's last night & she made curry chicken and a whole slew of stuff that is very carby. I ate & enjoyed the company of my family & today, though I'm 1# up in water weight, I'm back on the wagon & none the worse for wear :drinker: