Why you SHOULDN'T count calories

fangedneko

But absolutely nothing can be backed up.

This is utterly false.

J72FIT

Well I was, but that's just me being an uninformed non-peer reviewed ignoramus.

At least you admit it...

If you're not going to get the subject matter at hand, please at least get my sarcasm

Oh I got it, clearly you did not get mine...

terriltexas

This is my second week doing the mfp app. I really think it is something I can live with. I've done so many diets in the past, but they just aren't real life. I haven't counted calories long enough to contribute to this conversation, but I certainly hope it works!

J72FIT

But absolutely nothing can be backed up. Neither side can win.

Really, is that so?

FredDoyle

Relax, I was just having fun. Nobody's comparing windex and nail polish remover to diet coke. Well I was, but that's just me being an uninformed non-peer reviewed ignoramus. To each our own. I'm just happy I'm not the one drinking it.

Lack of evidence constitutes as a free pass these days. It's comical. But unfortunate also.

That conversation was just too classic to pass up. Made my day.

I don't know what the bolded part means but have fun perpetrating myths. That never causes problems.

Differences aside, I have no idea how that got bolded. Someone must have spilled diet coke on my keyboard ahaha... cough cough. tough crowd.

No, sorry, I should have said I bolded that part of your quote to respond to it.
I'm fairly easy going but I do ask people to back up their claims so newer people and some who don't post but read anyway don't accept people's claims (especially when they are common myths or contrary to known science) without evidence.

Understood. I respect that for sure. But absolutely nothing can be backed up. Neither side can win.

Well, that's the thing isn't it. It's a personal belief system. I just choose to base mine upon the best scientific findings for the time and allow.myself to change my belief as new findings are discovered. For now, the evidence shows that aspartame is safe in normal consumptive quantities, so I'll base my decisions upon that. If that changes, I'll be happy to admit I was following the wrong information and change my habits. How else can we expect to function? Make up fairy tales for things we don't understand?

DefBrown

Relax, I was just having fun. Nobody's comparing windex and nail polish remover to diet coke. Well I was, but that's just me being an uninformed non-peer reviewed ignoramus. To each our own. I'm just happy I'm not the one drinking it.

Lack of evidence constitutes as a free pass these days. It's comical. But unfortunate also.

That conversation was just too classic to pass up. Made my day.

I don't know what the bolded part means but have fun perpetrating myths. That never causes problems.

Differences aside, I have no idea how that got bolded. Someone must have spilled diet coke on my keyboard ahaha... cough cough. tough crowd.

No, sorry, I should have said I bolded that part of your quote to respond to it.
I'm fairly easy going but I do ask people to back up their claims so newer people and some who don't post but read anyway don't accept people's claims (especially when they are common myths or contrary to known science) without evidence.

Understood. I respect that for sure. But absolutely nothing can be backed up. Neither side can win.

Well, that's the thing isn't it. It's a personal belief system. I just choose to base mine upon the best scientific findings for the time and allow.myself to change my belief as new findings are discovered. For now, the evidence shows that aspartame is safe in normal consumptive quantities, so I'll base my decisions upon that. If that changes, I'll be happy to admit I was following the wrong information and change my habits. How else can we expect to function? Make up fairy tales for things we don't understand?

I am so glad you brought this up. Evidence FOR and AGAINST basically anything regarding diet and exercise is weak at best. This is why arguments go back and forth, and basically, things get heated, b/c we really like certain foods and don't want to give them up. Believe me, I'm no different. Sure, there are studies saying this is bad for you and that is safe. The reality is that nobody knows anything about anything.

I'll share my approach to this in case anyone finds it relevant. I do believe in eating real food. And intuitively it certainly is the best option available. b/c it's real, as nature packaged it (poison ivy etc excluded obviously!!!). I mean, things aren't perfect because even real food is to varying degrees mass produced. There's just too many of us for it not to be. But it's still the best alternative. I look at created/industrialized/modified foods and think.... well I don't know what the hell this is. Maybe safe, maybe not. The FDA just said it is safe. Study X did as well. But this is all over a short time course. It won't kill you tomorrow, but what is it doing to you over the next few decades?? And longer time course studies are poorly designed without any significant control for confounding factors.

So my approach?? if it's made/modified by man, and my body doesn't need it for nutrition.... what do I have to lose by cutting it out???? The answer every time is that I lose nothing.

Many of you probably think ya right, the thing you lose is your sanity because you're denying yourself pleasure!! Actually no. Now I crave no junk. But trust me, back when I ate clean AND dirty foods, I used to crave EVERYTHING. When I walked by a cake stand in a bakery, I would verbally go on and on about how I could eat ALL the cakes on the spot etc. I loved junk food. When I wasn't eating it, I was thinking about the next junk meal. I thought I couldn't live without it.

Since I've been eating real foods only..... Cravings for anything junk = zero. That's two years now. So to answer any questions of whether I'm suffering by eliminating "great tasting" processed junk from my diet.... there is no suffering. When I catch a whiff of a candy bar or french fries, I now lose my appetite instantly. I'm actually happy when it gets out of my sight, so I can get my appetite back.

So to reiterate, I just find that by eating clean foods, there really is nothing to lose, because you take a lot of the "unknown/unproven/" foods out of your diet. I'm not saying diet coke is a serial killer, but now I never have to wonder.

DefBrown

But absolutely nothing can be backed up. Neither side can win.

Really, is that so?

Yes. That's why forums like this exist. That's why you'll get different advice on diet and exercise from one doctor to the next. That's why the best diet literature is laughable at best when it comes to study quality. (and yes I got your sarcasm from your other post as well, but I'd rather stop trading exchanges like that. I just struck back cuz that's what I do).

We all just have to do our best. Both of us believe our own case very strongly and let's leave it at that. So let's just bury this hatchet and live and let live. We both said our piece.

I do want to comment on one thing that I keep forgetting to bring up. Awesome that you do pullups. I love them. But,.... please don't release your shoulders like that on the bottom. It really narrows this space called the rotator interval, and that in turn causes impingement of one of your rotator cuffs - the front part of the supraspinatus. Do your pullups with your scapulae retracted so you don't end up with a tear down the road.

DefBrown

But absolutely nothing can be backed up.

This is utterly false.

Sorry, didn't mean to leave you hanging.... Maybe I should have worded it another way: No one lifestyle strategy is known or proven for sure, otherwise everybody would be doing it.

FredDoyle

Relax, I was just having fun. Nobody's comparing windex and nail polish remover to diet coke. Well I was, but that's just me being an uninformed non-peer reviewed ignoramus. To each our own. I'm just happy I'm not the one drinking it.

Lack of evidence constitutes as a free pass these days. It's comical. But unfortunate also.

That conversation was just too classic to pass up. Made my day.

I don't know what the bolded part means but have fun perpetrating myths. That never causes problems.

Differences aside, I have no idea how that got bolded. Someone must have spilled diet coke on my keyboard ahaha... cough cough. tough crowd.

No, sorry, I should have said I bolded that part of your quote to respond to it.
I'm fairly easy going but I do ask people to back up their claims so newer people and some who don't post but read anyway don't accept people's claims (especially when they are common myths or contrary to known science) without evidence.

Understood. I respect that for sure. But absolutely nothing can be backed up. Neither side can win.

Well, that's the thing isn't it. It's a personal belief system. I just choose to base mine upon the best scientific findings for the time and allow.myself to change my belief as new findings are discovered. For now, the evidence shows that aspartame is safe in normal consumptive quantities, so I'll base my decisions upon that. If that changes, I'll be happy to admit I was following the wrong information and change my habits. How else can we expect to function? Make up fairy tales for things we don't understand?

I am so glad you brought this up. Evidence FOR and AGAINST basically anything regarding diet and exercise is weak at best. This is why arguments go back and forth, and basically, things get heated, b/c we really like certain foods and don't want to give them up. Believe me, I'm no different. Sure, there are studies saying this is bad for you and that is safe. The reality is that nobody knows anything about anything.

I'll share my approach to this in case anyone finds it relevant. I do believe in eating real food. And intuitively it certainly is the best option available. b/c it's real, as nature packaged it (poison ivy etc excluded obviously!!!). I mean, things aren't perfect because even real food is to varying degrees mass produced. There's just too many of us for it not to be. But it's still the best alternative. I look at created/industrialized/modified foods and think.... well I don't know what the hell this is. Maybe safe, maybe not. The FDA just said it is safe. Study X did as well. But this is all over a short time course. It won't kill you tomorrow, but what is it doing to you over the next few decades?? And longer time course studies are poorly designed without any significant control for confounding factors.

So my approach?? if it's made/modified by man, and my body doesn't need it for nutrition.... what do I have to lose by cutting it out???? The answer every time is that I lose nothing.

Many of you probably think ya right, the thing you lose is your sanity because you're denying yourself pleasure!! Actually no. Now I crave no junk. But trust me, back when I ate clean AND dirty foods, I used to crave EVERYTHING. When I walked by a cake stand in a bakery, I would verbally go on and on about how I could eat ALL the cakes on the spot etc. I loved junk food. When I wasn't eating it, I was thinking about the next junk meal. I thought I couldn't live without it.

Since I've been eating real foods only..... Cravings for anything junk = zero. That's two years now. So to answer any questions of whether I'm suffering by eliminating "great tasting" processed junk from my diet.... there is no suffering. When I catch a whiff of a candy bar or french fries, I now lose my appetite instantly. I'm actually happy when it gets out of my sight, so I can get my appetite back.

So to reiterate, I just find that by eating clean foods, there really is nothing to lose, because you take a lot of the "unknown/unproven/" foods out of your diet. I'm not saying diet coke is a serial killer, but now I never have to wonder.

Nope. I guess you have missed the entire point. Including the bit about misleading others. Oh well.

GatorDeb1

Counting calories works for me! :shrug:

DefBrown

Relax, I was just having fun. Nobody's comparing windex and nail polish remover to diet coke. Well I was, but that's just me being an uninformed non-peer reviewed ignoramus. To each our own. I'm just happy I'm not the one drinking it.

Lack of evidence constitutes as a free pass these days. It's comical. But unfortunate also.

That conversation was just too classic to pass up. Made my day.

I don't know what the bolded part means but have fun perpetrating myths. That never causes problems.

Differences aside, I have no idea how that got bolded. Someone must have spilled diet coke on my keyboard ahaha... cough cough. tough crowd.

No, sorry, I should have said I bolded that part of your quote to respond to it.
I'm fairly easy going but I do ask people to back up their claims so newer people and some who don't post but read anyway don't accept people's claims (especially when they are common myths or contrary to known science) without evidence.

Understood. I respect that for sure. But absolutely nothing can be backed up. Neither side can win.

Well, that's the thing isn't it. It's a personal belief system. I just choose to base mine upon the best scientific findings for the time and allow.myself to change my belief as new findings are discovered. For now, the evidence shows that aspartame is safe in normal consumptive quantities, so I'll base my decisions upon that. If that changes, I'll be happy to admit I was following the wrong information and change my habits. How else can we expect to function? Make up fairy tales for things we don't understand?

I am so glad you brought this up. Evidence FOR and AGAINST basically anything regarding diet and exercise is weak at best. This is why arguments go back and forth, and basically, things get heated, b/c we really like certain foods and don't want to give them up. Believe me, I'm no different. Sure, there are studies saying this is bad for you and that is safe. The reality is that nobody knows anything about anything.

I'll share my approach to this in case anyone finds it relevant. I do believe in eating real food. And intuitively it certainly is the best option available. b/c it's real, as nature packaged it (poison ivy etc excluded obviously!!!). I mean, things aren't perfect because even real food is to varying degrees mass produced. There's just too many of us for it not to be. But it's still the best alternative. I look at created/industrialized/modified foods and think.... well I don't know what the hell this is. Maybe safe, maybe not. The FDA just said it is safe. Study X did as well. But this is all over a short time course. It won't kill you tomorrow, but what is it doing to you over the next few decades?? And longer time course studies are poorly designed without any significant control for confounding factors.

So my approach?? if it's made/modified by man, and my body doesn't need it for nutrition.... what do I have to lose by cutting it out???? The answer every time is that I lose nothing.

Many of you probably think ya right, the thing you lose is your sanity because you're denying yourself pleasure!! Actually no. Now I crave no junk. But trust me, back when I ate clean AND dirty foods, I used to crave EVERYTHING. When I walked by a cake stand in a bakery, I would verbally go on and on about how I could eat ALL the cakes on the spot etc. I loved junk food. When I wasn't eating it, I was thinking about the next junk meal. I thought I couldn't live without it.

Since I've been eating real foods only..... Cravings for anything junk = zero. That's two years now. So to answer any questions of whether I'm suffering by eliminating "great tasting" processed junk from my diet.... there is no suffering. When I catch a whiff of a candy bar or french fries, I now lose my appetite instantly. I'm actually happy when it gets out of my sight, so I can get my appetite back.

So to reiterate, I just find that by eating clean foods, there really is nothing to lose, because you take a lot of the "unknown/unproven/" foods out of your diet. I'm not saying diet coke is a serial killer, but now I never have to wonder.

Nope. I guess you have missed the entire point. Including the bit about misleading others. Oh well.

LOL

Zoe_lifts

There also could be a reason why clean eating is called "clean" eating.

So you're saying your knowledge of Windex being 0 calories is based on personal experience?

Lol'ed at this :P

DefBrown

There also could be a reason why clean eating is called "clean" eating.

So you're saying your knowledge of Windex being 0 calories is based on personal experience?

Lol'ed at this :P

What the hell is wrong with you guys? Are you now fearmongering against Windex? It's calories in-calories out.

J72FIT

I do want to comment on one thing that I keep forgetting to bring up. Awesome that you do pullups. I love them. But,.... please don't release your shoulders like that on the bottom. It really narrows this space called the rotator interval, and that in turn causes impingement of one of your rotator cuffs - the front part of the supraspinatus. Do your pullups with your scapulae retracted so you don't end up with a tear down the road.

Was not doing pull-ups in that pic. Was doing scapulae pull-ups (protract then retract the scapulae from the dead hang position) for shoulder impingements oddly enough. Years of silly training as a youngster I guess...

DefBrown

I do want to comment on one thing that I keep forgetting to bring up. Awesome that you do pullups. I love them. But,.... please don't release your shoulders like that on the bottom. It really narrows this space called the rotator interval, and that in turn causes impingement of one of your rotator cuffs - the front part of the supraspinatus. Do your pullups with your scapulae retracted so you don't end up with a tear down the road.

Was not doing pull-ups in that pic. Was doing scapulae pull-ups (protract then retract the scapulae from the dead hang position) for shoulder impingements oddly enough. Years of silly training as a youngster I guess...

Nice! Ya I found protract-retract does help w keeping my scapulae retracted in pull-ups. I gotta preserve my cuff too. Youth has done it's damage to me as well.

J72FIT

I do want to comment on one thing that I keep forgetting to bring up. Awesome that you do pullups. I love them. But,.... please don't release your shoulders like that on the bottom. It really narrows this space called the rotator interval, and that in turn causes impingement of one of your rotator cuffs - the front part of the supraspinatus. Do your pullups with your scapulae retracted so you don't end up with a tear down the road.

Was not doing pull-ups in that pic. Was doing scapulae pull-ups (protract then retract the scapulae from the dead hang position) for shoulder impingements oddly enough. Years of silly training as a youngster I guess...

Nice! Ya I found protract-retract does help w keeping my scapulae retracted in pull-ups. I gotta preserve my cuff too. Youth has done it's damage to me as well.

Yeah shoulder impingements are no fun...