giving up carbs and sugar..

PatchEFog

[/quote]

Completely agree. And because the OP said:

I know a lot of people that have given up on carbs and sugar and it seems to work for them, but is this a healthy route to go?

It would probably be suggested that she looks at multiple lifestyles and determines which one will be most conducive to her journey and which one will allow the greatest chance of long term success.

[/quote]
A little late for that. The seeds of "fad" have been sown.

meridianova

It's impossible to go completely no carb, unless you only eat meat. As to if a very low carb diet is healthy that depends on an individual and their health. I personally can't do it, as it would kill me. I have extreme hypoglycemia (my last hemoglobin A1C was 3.1 (a level below 4.5 is considered hypoglycemic). I have cut out almost all simple carbs and almost all refined sugars, complex carbs break down slower and keep my blood sugars from spiking and dropping. When the very low carb diets first came out my dad and stepmom did it, while they both lost severel pounds quickly, in just under a year my stepmom was told to stop doing low carb because it was causing her to have Ketosis.

From the Mayo Clinic:
It's also possible that restricting carbohydrates to less than 20 grams a day — the level recommended for phase 1 of the diet — can result in ketosis. Ketosis occurs when you don't have enough sugar (glucose) for energy, so your body breaks down stored fat, causing ketones to build up in your body. Side effects from ketosis can include nausea, headache, mental fatigue and bad breath.

In addition, the Atkins Diet isn't appropriate for everyone. For example, the Atkins Diet recommends that you consult your doctor before starting the diet if you take diuretics, insulin or oral diabetes medications. In addition, people with severe kidney disease should not follow the diet, and the weight-loss phases of the diet aren't suitable for women who are pregnant or breast-feeding.

So the short answer is yes it's healthy and good for some people, and not healthy for others. Here's the link for the mayo clinic information above: http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/weight-loss/in-depth/atkins-diet/art-20048485?pg=2

isn't part of the point of what we're all doing here to lose the stored fat we've all got? isn't that how we lose weight?

and let's be clear... ketosis is not a bad thing, because it's a byproduct of burning the energy your body is meant to burn in the first place: FAT. the ketones don't build up, they are excreted in urine and sweat.

what's bad is when you enter ketoacidosis, which is the process of your body cannibalizing its own muscle and organs for energy. different process, different circumstances.

chubbybword123

[When I read up on things...mine is basally Mediterranean meets south beach.

Oh, I had to look it up. I also tend to go South Beach from time to time, especially after decadent weekends... =D

Cheers!

Amanda4change

It's impossible to go completely no carb, unless you only eat meat. As to if a very low carb diet is healthy that depends on an individual and their health. I personally can't do it, as it would kill me. I have extreme hypoglycemia (my last hemoglobin A1C was 3.1 (a level below 4.5 is considered hypoglycemic). I have cut out almost all simple carbs and almost all refined sugars, complex carbs break down slower and keep my blood sugars from spiking and dropping. When the very low carb diets first came out my dad and stepmom did it, while they both lost severel pounds quickly, in just under a year my stepmom was told to stop doing low carb because it was causing her to have Ketosis.

From the Mayo Clinic:
It's also possible that restricting carbohydrates to less than 20 grams a day — the level recommended for phase 1 of the diet — can result in ketosis. Ketosis occurs when you don't have enough sugar (glucose) for energy, so your body breaks down stored fat, causing ketones to build up in your body. Side effects from ketosis can include nausea, headache, mental fatigue and bad breath.

In addition, the Atkins Diet isn't appropriate for everyone. For example, the Atkins Diet recommends that you consult your doctor before starting the diet if you take diuretics, insulin or oral diabetes medications. In addition, people with severe kidney disease should not follow the diet, and the weight-loss phases of the diet aren't suitable for women who are pregnant or breast-feeding.

So the short answer is yes it's healthy and good for some people, and not healthy for others. Here's the link for the mayo clinic information above: http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/weight-loss/in-depth/atkins-diet/art-20048485?pg=2

isn't part of the point of what we're all doing here to lose the stored fat we've all got? isn't that how we lose weight?

and let's be clear... ketosis is not a bad thing, because it's a byproduct of burning the energy your body is meant to burn in the first place: FAT. the ketones don't build up, they are excreted in urine and sweat.

what's bad is when you enter ketoacidosis, which is the process of your body cannibalizing its own muscle and organs for energy. different process, different circumstances.

Ketoacidosis is caused by a build up of ketones in the blood. When your body burns fat for good, it doesn't just burn fat cells it also burns muscle for fuel. The bi product is ketones, you can end up with more ketones than your body can expel via ruination, high levels of ketones in your blood is bad. Yes many people can go low carb and not have an issue, but not everyone can. There is no one answer fits all to the original posters question.

baconslave

It's impossible to go completely no carb, unless you only eat meat. As to if a very low carb diet is healthy that depends on an individual and their health. I personally can't do it, as it would kill me. I have extreme hypoglycemia (my last hemoglobin A1C was 3.1 (a level below 4.5 is considered hypoglycemic). I have cut out almost all simple carbs and almost all refined sugars, complex carbs break down slower and keep my blood sugars from spiking and dropping. When the very low carb diets first came out my dad and stepmom did it, while they both lost severel pounds quickly, in just under a year my stepmom was told to stop doing low carb because it was causing her to have Ketosis.

From the Mayo Clinic:
It's also possible that restricting carbohydrates to less than 20 grams a day — the level recommended for phase 1 of the diet — can result in ketosis. Ketosis occurs when you don't have enough sugar (glucose) for energy, so your body breaks down stored fat, causing ketones to build up in your body. Side effects from ketosis can include nausea, headache, mental fatigue and bad breath.

In addition, the Atkins Diet isn't appropriate for everyone. For example, the Atkins Diet recommends that you consult your doctor before starting the diet if you take diuretics, insulin or oral diabetes medications. In addition, people with severe kidney disease should not follow the diet, and the weight-loss phases of the diet aren't suitable for women who are pregnant or breast-feeding.

So the short answer is yes it's healthy and good for some people, and not healthy for others. Here's the link for the mayo clinic information above: http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/weight-loss/in-depth/atkins-diet/art-20048485?pg=2

isn't part of the point of what we're all doing here to lose the stored fat we've all got? isn't that how we lose weight?

and let's be clear... ketosis is not a bad thing, because it's a byproduct of burning the energy your body is meant to burn in the first place: FAT. the ketones don't build up, they are excreted in urine and sweat.

what's bad is when you enter ketoacidosis, which is the process of your body cannibalizing its own muscle and organs for energy. different process, different circumstances.

Ketoacidosis is caused by a build up of ketones in the blood. When your body burns fat for good, it doesn't just burn fat cells it also burns muscle for fuel. The bi product is ketones, you can end up with more ketones than your body can expel via ruination, high levels of ketones in your blood is bad. Yes many people can go low carb and not have an issue, but not everyone can. There is no one answer fits all to the original posters question.

Regular ketosis usually results in ketone levels of 1-8 mmol/L. (mmol/L= millimoles per liter. This is a measurement of concentration, btw.) Though many people are lucky if they reach 4. Whereas ketoacidosis occurs from levels over 20mmol/L. Huge difference in ketone levels here.

Ketoacidosis is most commonly due to uncontrolled diabetes (complete absence of insulin production) or severe alcoholism.

ladymiseryali

I eat low carb and as a result, lower sugar. I would say I'm still alive, my organs are all functioning well and I can jog and do all sorts of active things with no issue. As long as you replace the lack of carbs with fats and a bit of protein, you're good to go!

Careful though. Most people on here are very anti-lowcarb for some reason and will express their distaste in the most obnoxious way possible.

psuLemon

...Unfortunately, there are people from both sides of this conversation that have rather extreme views and try to push that onto others and if anyone suggest to evaluate a different approach outside of their own, things tend to go sour.

Yes, when people call other people's WOE a 'fad" when it isn't, that's counter-productive to conversation.
But this is OT.
I emailed the OP directly because I anticipated this type of crazy bias, as per the usual. She indicated she would be sticking with carbs and sugar - so I left it at that because I respect her decision and wished her well on her weight loss journey.
Too bad people are unable to be respectful of the decisions of others and instead have to tar them as a "fad" just because they disagree.

So lets address this since you are trying to cherry pick my post because you think I am anti low carb/keto (which I am not). In this case, the OP's WOE is not low carb. A few of her friends had good success with low carb and she is considering it. It's a viable option. In fact, I recommended the OP to educate herself prior to making a decision on which lifestyle she preferred to go with. Furthermore, here is what I actually said:

It is my perception, the OP would be using this as a fad because her friends have had success and may not be fully aware or have the knowledge of what will be required to make it successful long term. If the OP is ok with removing foods from her diet or in some cases, entire food groups, then it would be a good tool. Personally, there are advantages to both a moderate approach and a low carb approach. Low carb can provide higher levels of satiety, which will make it easier to sustain a deficit. Moderation will allow you to eat all foods you enjoy. Personally, I cannot do low carb because my workouts struggle when carbs dip by 200g. I also find that I tend to binge when I eliminate foods I enjoy from my diet.

With either diet, you have to educate yourself (which will take time) to be able to sustain long term. Is one better than the other.. nope.. What it comes down to, is which diet/lifestyle can you sustain long term.

I never called low carb a fad. I suggested the OP would be doing this as a fad. There is a difference.. the context is different. I could easily say the same thing about any approach. In fact, I even noted there are advantages to both lifestyles

I am just amazed at how fast people get upset when you suggest educating yourself prior to taking on a specific diet approach (as demonstrated by many low carb'ers). I understand it, you feel very strongly about your lifestyle, which is good because passion will help you succeed long term.

parkscs

I never called low carb a fad. I suggested the OP would be doing this as a fad. There is a difference.. the context is different. I could easily say the same thing about any approach. In fact, I even noted there are advantages to both lifestyles

I am just amazed at how fast people get upset when you suggest educating yourself prior to taking on a specific diet approach (as demonstrated by many low carb'ers). I understand it, you feel very strongly about your lifestyle, which is good because passion will help you succeed long term.

I think it's a mix between people are overly passionate about their own preferred diet (sometimes to the point of zealotry) and people being on the defensive about their preferred diet because other people who are overly passionate about a different diet love to bash their diet. And then you have the clueless newbies, whose bro told them X diet was the way to go and they just repeat that to other people because bro science. It's just not a mix that admits of good, rational discussion a lot of the time, although the occasional thread has a happy ending.

psuLemon

I never called low carb a fad. I suggested the OP would be doing this as a fad. There is a difference.. the context is different. I could easily say the same thing about any approach. In fact, I even noted there are advantages to both lifestyles

I am just amazed at how fast people get upset when you suggest educating yourself prior to taking on a specific diet approach (as demonstrated by many low carb'ers). I understand it, you feel very strongly about your lifestyle, which is good because passion will help you succeed long term.

I think it's a mix between people are overly passionate about their own preferred diet (sometimes to the point of zealotry) and people being on the defensive about their preferred diet because other people who are overly passionate about a different diet love to bash their diet. And then you have the clueless newbies, whose bro told them X diet was the way to go and they just repeat that to other people because bro science. It's just not a mix that admits of good, rational discussion a lot of the time, although the occasional thread has a happy ending.

I hear you.


To the OP sorry this got a little off topic. To answer the original question, there is nothing unhealthy about low carb diets. The question comes down to, after you research it, is it something you can stick with. Either way, if you count calories, I would recommend a food scale and logging daily. Accuracy and consistency are going to be the two first things evaluated if you plateau. And if you need help setting a calorie goal or exercise routine just post your height weight age and goals. Also, if you have medical conditions it would be recommended to post it as well.

RockstarWilson

Keto is about training the body to eliminate the need to use carbs, and only use fat and some protein for energy. I eat a ton of fat each day, and it makes up about 70-80% of my macros. If you are going to do it, don't do it half-heartedly. there are some things you have to give up- no, a LOT of things you have to give up, because if you cannot consistently maintain ketosis, which is the state your body is in when it used ONLY fat for energy, then you won't get where you need to go.

I am relatively new to keto, and I have lost weight on it (albeit gradually, as I am not weight lifting yet). I eat a bunch of bacon and cheese, and I love it! It gives me a good reason to have salad dressing, cheese off the block, any kind of fatty meat (which is also cheaper), natural butter, spinach and avocados, nuts....but some of the things you must give up are cow's milk, potatoes, pasta, any grains, cereal, fruits, rice, beer in large quantities, etc.

People are concerned about saturated fats in the diet, and while conventional wisdom tells you that saturated fat is bad, it can actually be good for you, and newer studies are proving it. I don't have sources, but they are all over the web. There are plenty of health effects of Ketogenic diets besided the weight loss ability.

It basically can parallel a paleo diet. Back in the old days (literally, the stone age), there were no farms, or year round fruit trees to get. People ate protein and fat a majority of the year from whatever they could kill. If there was fruit, it only grew seasonally, which meant that they would only enjoy it a few months out of the year, but there were no farms, so it wasn't easily accessible. Other than that, people hunted and ate animals, or ate grains (which is a carb, but not a sugar). The animals had tons of saturated fat, as they do today. Think there were any fat people back in those days? Probably not. I don't know what the life expectancy was back in those days. It was probably pretty low due to high mortality rates of babies and territorial battles and such...but if all that was able to be put aside, I can't imagine it was worse than it is now.

Keto is a simple diet, but you have to maintain it constantly for it to take effect.

RockstarWilson

I do want to reiterate a prime focal point of this particular diet:

---

> You basically get to eat all the bacon you want, every day! <

---

Yeah, yeah, can't eat all saturated fats, I know. But all those "healthy" fats aint all cracked up to be what they are... eat an avocado or two to keep a balance, if you feel the need.

chadya07

i cant tell you what will work for you but for me... that sounds miserable.

i did low carb once. i made it two weeks or so but i was soooo bored and missed everything i love.

for me, the calories in/ calories out way is what works, but if you can do it, more power to you. it works for some.

RockstarWilson

Giving up carbs and sugar? Is it necessary, effective? You should ask this to so many of the people here with success stories. Listen to what they have to say. Ask people who have lost weight and kept it off for some time, that will give you a better perspective.

So far, most success stories have come from people who chose a sustainable dieting plan, a lifestyle change. If you see yourself going the low carb way for life, then go for it.

Basing your diet or exercise routine off of someone else's anecdotal observations is a fundamental principle of broscience. You're going to get more meaningful information if you look at studies that examine groups of people, preferably in controlled environments, rather than just asking your bro how he prefers to do it. The same goes for the gym - odds are you're going to get better results using a proven system that thousands of athletes have used successfully, rather than just asking your bro what split he followed to get to benching 3 plates.

And that's not to say giving up carbs and sugar is somehow superior - only that basing your routine off MFP success stories is likely not the optimal way to go about it.

Agreed. You have neither knowledge nor control over the sample on here, as they may be of different health groups, different body types, different ethnicities, vastly different habits, different locations, etc.....and and all legit studies on this matter will have controls with VERY little deviations and variations. Usually, there is a control. Look out for that, and make sure the site is neutral.

Just as a general opinion, though, I do think where people go wrong is when they combine fat and carbs all at once, like that big mac everyone loves so much (and yes, the cheese isn't real cheese, so it is all carbs), or when they carb up and don't use them efficiently, such as they drink a monster to work a desk job as opposed to construction. Most general construction guys that I see are pretty athletic except when it comes to the gut. It is also pretty common knowledge that construction guys are also heavy beer drinkers, so when they go home and drink themselves stupid.....a beer belly occurs! Okay, went off on a tangent, but you get the gist, I hope.

SandyBVTN

Low carb/no added sugar certainly has worked for me in the past for weight loss. I felt pretty good too, but I couldn't sustain the lifestyle in the long term. I found that the way I wanted to do it was too expensive, involved too much food prep/cooking and that it was difficult to eat while out. I always quickly gained the weight back after going back to "normal" (for me) eating.

Now it's all about calorie counting and teaching my body how much energy it really needs to be healthy. For me, it's much more sustainable long term, because I can fit any food that I like into my day and have an easier stash of grab and go items, as well as easy/fast to prepare meals.

baconslave

I do want to reiterate a prime focal point of this particular diet:

---

> You basically get to eat all the bacon you want, every day! <

---

Yeah, yeah, can't eat all saturated fats, I know. But all those "healthy" fats aint all cracked up to be what they are... eat an avocado or two to keep a balance, if you feel the need.

Bacon!
But of course I would say that. :laugh:

Low-carb is the best diet ever and everyone in the world should be on this way of eating CUZ...BACON! Kidding.

Avocados are high in potassium, too. Good on fiber, too. So they are a "healthy" fat win.

baconslave

I never called low carb a fad. I suggested the OP would be doing this as a fad. There is a difference.. the context is different. I could easily say the same thing about any approach. In fact, I even noted there are advantages to both lifestyles

I am just amazed at how fast people get upset when you suggest educating yourself prior to taking on a specific diet approach (as demonstrated by many low carb'ers). I understand it, you feel very strongly about your lifestyle, which is good because passion will help you succeed long term.

I think it's a mix between people are overly passionate about their own preferred diet (sometimes to the point of zealotry) and people being on the defensive about their preferred diet because other people who are overly passionate about a different diet love to bash their diet. And then you have the clueless newbies, whose bro told them X diet was the way to go and they just repeat that to other people because bro science. It's just not a mix that admits of good, rational discussion a lot of the time, although the occasional thread has a happy ending.

I agree that OP would be doing it as a fad, you were right about that, Lemon.( IMO, of course)


I don't ever bother to get emotional over my way of eating being tarred as a fad though. But I do shake my head over it. It is frustrating, yes, to constantly have it maligned by people who aren't educated about it. Many people just spout off whatever inaccurate rumor they have heard parroted by all the others who don't really know anything about it either. It is what it is. That said, there are people who do any way of eating as a fad, even if it's majority sanctioned. Edify thyself, people. I don't understand why some people don't, but everyone if different. What is wrong with educating yourself? Or people politely suggesting you might need more information? Polite is the key word here.

My decision was well researched, based on studies and adapting diabetic diets formulated by doctors. Atkins has been around since the 70s. (No he didn't die of a heart attack. It was a head injury. Rumors...tsk tsk.) Many, many have used it and maintained for decades. Doctors and nutritionists prescribe low-carb diets, though not necessarily with as low carb levels as Atkins begins in induction (which consequently increases as you go), to people with insulin resistance and diabetes. Most low-carb diets have a maintenance plan. It's not a fad.

But if you just pick-up on it and try it based on your buddy or some media person telling you to, without being fully read-up on the subject, and never thinking about the end-game, it's not going to be successful for you. And even if you become an amateur expert on low-carb, it still may not be the right thing for you. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

It's obvious that many low-carb threads get pounced on. Even though, the prevailing idea is supposed to be "whatever is working for you," that seems to not apply to the low-carb diets for some reason. Sometimes we get tired of it. I make an effort to remain civilized while defending it. If I just let it go though and say nothing, the people dumping on it will misrepresent it to others who are uninformed. It passes ignorance and moral judgments on those who must use that eating plan, or choose to. I've been called stupid before because I low-carb. Here, on this forum. I apparently low-carb because I'm not smart enough not to. Which is obvious nonsense. I'm confident enough to recognize the ad hominem fallacy for what it is. The person was trying to provoke me. What about someone else with a thinner skin? Who wouldn't be defensive if the accepted POV of the forum is that people who are low-carb are stupid, crazy, fad-followers? Of course everyone doesn't do it, but those sour, maligning responses do stick with you for awhile. If it happens enough, it seems like everyone is against you.

Many forms of low-carb diets can be quite balanced. But you do have to budget your carbs. All low-carb diets are not equal, so jumping in and badmouthing them all just because some blogger or talking-head, or bro said so, is silly. This goes both ways. Jumping in guns blazing and dumping on things in a judgmental manner is a bad idea, regardless of what you are addressing.

Nothing said in here (this forum) is so crucial that it's going to set the entire world on it's ear, but we can at least treat others with respect.

I say that is my "two cents" on the whole "defensive" discussion, but it's so long I'd say it's more "87 and a half cents." Go big or go home, right? :laugh: Read it all and strain your poor eyeballs or don't. Not going to hurt my feelings, because ultimately, as I see it, what does it matter, in the grand scheme of things, that some person on the interwebs thinks you are an ignoramus? Their words have no power to hurt you if you don't let them. But make sure yours don't do harm either.

RockstarWilson

Well said, my friend.

I would like to add, that this is more than just a "fad" diet. it might enlighten people to know that this way of eating has been around since the 1920s, designed in a not-for-profit research hospital, in order to try and prevent uncontrollable seizures in children when nothing else would work. This diet is definitely not mainstream, even though people see just the term "low-carb" and attach it to the cover page of whatever womans tabloid mag is on the stand at checkout (along with "101 ways to a flat stomach"). The ketogenic diet is more than that. There are many health benefits that have been proven when people put themselves into ketosis.

So to keep it short, this diet has been around for longer than most your grandparents have been alive. Fad? I think not. Read about it: http://www.charliefoundation.org/explore-ketogenic-diet/explore-1/introducing-the-diet

Definitions for understanding:
ketogenesis:

keto-short for ketones, which are what your body creates from stored fat in order to use its stored energy, as fat in raw form is not usable

gen- create, or produce

esis- state of being

So, when you are in Ketosis, the body is mostly (>95% of the time) using ketones for energy. Your body is in ketosis when your liver is producing ketones at optimum level, which means it (the liver) is in ketogenesis.