TMZ Ray Rice video

Mustang_Susie

Let's keep it clean so we can avoid "The Lock" and maybe have some intelligent discussion?




In light of the recently released video of Ray Rice punching and knocking out his then girlfriend:

Do you think a man (or woman for that matter) is ever justified in striking a partner for any reason or is it all abusive no matter what the reasoning?

Veil5577

Didn't a similar thread just get locked?

Mustang_Susie

Didn't a similar thread just get locked?

Probably, didn't look into it.

_John_

I err to the side of the woman, but even a woman that size and the right sucker punch can injure a physically impressive man.

Definitely not saying it was justified in this case.

I do feel there is a point where even a vastly physically superior person is legally "justified" in protecting themselves, even if the force required to protect themselves might seem excessive.

mccindy72

Let's keep it clean so we can avoid "The Lock" and maybe have some intelligent discussion?




In light of the recently released video of Ray Rice punching and knocking out his then girlfriend:

Do you think a man (or woman for that matter) is ever justified in striking a partner for any reason or is it all abusive no matter what the reasoning?

My husband and I actually had a debate about this last night. Now, we've been married nearly 25 years and he's never struck me and we've had some doozy arguments.
His side of the debate was that sometimes, women can really push things by just constantly get into a guy's face, and yell and say horrible things to the point where he loses control and hits her. His argument being that the guy shouldn't necessarily be charged with assault in this type of case because the woman pushed the guy into it.
My side was that the woman, obviously, is being verbally abusive, and could be charged as such, but there is still no excuse for anyone to hit another person. Even if the guy pisses off the woman and she slaps him, she is still assaulting him and and should be charged.

The Ray Rice video shows a man who, for no apparent reason, punches his then-fiancee in the face and knocks her out cold, kicks her with disregard to her well being and then drags her away, despite the fact that he's obviously strong enough to carry her. The the dumb woman married him, and is now ticked off at the Ravens for firing him. Guess she's just another gold digger.

Return_of_the_Big_Mac

I don't think this is a gender thing. Its a human thing. Anyone who escalates a verbal confrontation into a physical confrontation is an idiot.

srslybritt

lol @ "avoiding the lock." Honey, you don't find the lock. The lock finds you.

Also, no, I don't. If you care about someone enough to marry them, you should be able to use your adult words and not hit people. This isn't kindergarten.

ETA - I just generally think people hitting other people is no good.

Return_of_the_Big_Mac

As an addendum: Anyone who tries to piss off someone who can knock you out with one punch is also an idiot.

Mustang_Susie

I don't think this is a gender thing. Its a human thing. Anyone who escalates a verbal confrontation into a physical confrontation is an idiot.

So, just walk away and end it (?)

_John_

The Ray Rice video shows a man who, for no apparent reason, punches his then-fiancee in the face and knocks her out cold, kicks her with disregard to her well being and then drags her away, despite the fact that he's obviously strong enough to carry her. The the dumb woman married him, and is now ticked off at the Ravens for firing him. Guess she's just another gold digger.

not justifying, but it looks like before they got in a the elevator she did a little more than verbally confront him, but nothing to justify a full force punch or any other retaliation that would be classified as "assault".

And 150-175 lbs of dead weight is hard for people to move...movies make it look easy for the camera, but it ain't easy. We ain't all Sara.

Return_of_the_Big_Mac

I don't think this is a gender thing. Its a human thing. Anyone who escalates a verbal confrontation into a physical confrontation is an idiot.

So, just walk away and end it (?)

1. Don't escalate conflicts
2. Learn to discuss issues without fighting
3. When you realize that things aren't productive, stop arguing. Walk away.
4. Don't hit people
5. Def don't hit someone who can knock you out
6. If you do stupid ****, don't try to drag the person out of the hotel

diespel

never, ever hit a woman (or man), child, or animal.

in an unprovoked state, think about justifiably hitting someone, you can't .

It takes a bigger person to turn and walk away

fanceegirl75

Haa! Now his wife is mad at the media for "ruining" their marriage...or maybe she meant their income. He's clearly hit her in the head one too many times. I wish them well but I don't believe that's the first nor the last hit. Its wrong in my eyes. He should know to walk away rather then take it to the physical extreme and that goes for a woman as well.

JenAndSome

I can't think of any valid reason to hit another person with the exceptions self defense or sport. This is usually taught to people starting at a very young age. If they still haven't learned how to manage conflict and their emotions without resorting to violence by adulthood there is a serious issue there.

PlanetVelma

never, ever hit a woman (or man), child, or animal.

in an unprovoked state, think about justifiably hitting someone, you can't .

It takes a bigger person to turn and walk away

+1

yopeeps025

That old thread was bound to get locked.

_John_

I can't think of any valid reason to hit another person with the exceptions self defense or sport. This is usually taught to people starting at a very young age. If they still haven't learned how to manage conflict and their emotions without resorting to violence by adulthood there is a serious issue there.

but at what point does even a petite woman represent a threat that a physically superior man is justified to defend himself? "Legal stereotypes" would have you believe it's either a knife or a gun in their hands...

mccindy72

I can't think of any valid reason to hit another person with the exceptions self defense or sport. This is usually taught to people starting at a very young age. If they still haven't learned how to manage conflict and their emotions without resorting to violence by adulthood there is a serious issue there.

but at what point does even a petite woman represent a threat that a physically superior man is justified to defend himself? "Legal stereotypes" would have you believe it's either a knife or a gun in their hands...

It's not as if he attempted to subdue her in any way. He didn't grab her arm or push her away as she stepped toward her, he just punched her, and hard enough to knock her out. And she's not petite, so you know he clocked her one. Legal stereotypes aside, if a woman is physically assaulting a man and he defends himself, it's one thing. But that certainly is not the case here.

Mustang_Susie

I can't think of any valid reason to hit another person with the exceptions self defense or sport. This is usually taught to people starting at a very young age. If they still haven't learned how to manage conflict and their emotions without resorting to violence by adulthood there is a serious issue there.

but at what point does even a petite woman represent a threat that a physically superior man is justified to defend himself? "Legal stereotypes" would have you believe it's either a knife or a gun in their hands...

It's not as if he attempted to subdue her in any way. He didn't grab her arm or push her away as she stepped toward her, he just punched her, and hard enough to knock her out. And she's not petite, so you know he clocked her one. Legal stereotypes aside, if a woman is physically assaulting a man and he defends himself, it's one thing. But that certainly is not the case here.

What defines "physically assaulting" and "defends himself"?

tincanonastring

I don't think this is a gender thing. Its a human thing. Anyone who escalates a verbal confrontation into a physical confrontation is an idiot.

+1

Take gender out of the equation: is a person ever justified in using excessive force against a weaker person? In my opinion, a person's "right" to defend themselves goes up to the point where they neutralize the threat. If that means a man can stop a woman from spitting on him and striking him by holding her wrists to prevent further punches, that's what is justified. If he goes beyond that, it's assault, not defense. If a weaker man attacks a stronger man, the latter (again, my own opinion) is obliged to meet the attack with just enough force to stop it.

mccindy72

I can't think of any valid reason to hit another person with the exceptions self defense or sport. This is usually taught to people starting at a very young age. If they still haven't learned how to manage conflict and their emotions without resorting to violence by adulthood there is a serious issue there.

but at what point does even a petite woman represent a threat that a physically superior man is justified to defend himself? "Legal stereotypes" would have you believe it's either a knife or a gun in their hands...

It's not as if he attempted to subdue her in any way. He didn't grab her arm or push her away as she stepped toward her, he just punched her, and hard enough to knock her out. And she's not petite, so you know he clocked her one. Legal stereotypes aside, if a woman is physically assaulting a man and he defends himself, it's one thing. But that certainly is not the case here.

What defines "physically assaulting" and "defends himself"?

Let's de-gender the whole thing. If one person is assaulting another (hitting him or her) and the other pushes or hits the first person to try to make him or her stop, that would be defense.

cj778449

Obviously domestic violence isn't ok no matter the situation. If you have functioning legs then nothing is holding you back from walking away. He wasn't defending his life, it's about a man with no self control. Unless your life is in danger and she was yielding a life threatening weapon then there's no reason to put your hands on someone. Period.

yopeeps025

Justifiable hitting in my book would be If I see a man hit a woman. I will hit that man.

Mustang_Susie

Okay, for the sake of argument, lets say a 5 foot, 100#-something "person" is attacking a 6 foot 300#- something "person"
and the latter, in claims of "defense", punches that first person several times.
Is that defense or an attack?
And realistically, couldn't the latter easily "escape" the first?

bugaha1

I think once there is video evidence that it becomes a police matter and you can be fired by your employer.

yopeeps025

Okay, for the sake of argument, lets say a 5 foot, 100#-something "person" is attacking a 6 foot 300#- something "person"
and the latter, in claims of "defense", punches that first person several times.
Is that defense or an attack?
And realistically, couldn't the latter easily "escape" the first?

Im not getting this example. Well 5 ft person can chase 6 ft person. You know any 6 ft 300 something pound people who are quick besides for football lineman?

Mustang_Susie

Okay, for the sake of argument, lets say a 5 foot, 100#-something "person" is attacking a 6 foot 300#- something "person"
and the latter, in claims of "defense", punches that first person several times.
Is that defense or an attack?
And realistically, couldn't the latter easily "escape" the first?

Im not getting this example. Well 5 ft person can chase 6 ft person. You know any 6 ft 300 something pound people who are quick besides for football lineman?

Um, okay, no chasing...

_John_

what (if any) weapons does the smaller person posses? Because something as simple as a Maglite DRASTICALLY changes the dynamic of the situation in what I would view as "allowed" as "acceptable defense".

mccindy72

what (if any) weapons does the smaller person posses? Because something as simple as a Maglite DRASTICALLY changes the dynamic of the situation in what I would view as "allowed" as "acceptable defense".

Hey, if the smaller person were, say, Jet Li or Jackie Chan...

Mustang_Susie

what (if any) weapons does the smaller person posses? Because something as simple as a Maglite DRASTICALLY changes the dynamic of the situation in what I would view as "allowed" as "acceptable defense".

Let's say no weapons, just their own (non-martial arts trained) body.

Pupslice

It's not hard to NOT hit someone, even if they are screaming abuse in your face, you can still turn your back or walk away.