School Dress Codes
Replies
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It is the rules we had in school and what my kids have now, except for the skinny jeans and tights. We have a problem here and it isn't the dress code. It is kids who don't respect authority, girls who don't know modesty, and boys who don't know how to respect and value young women. I have sons. My oldest is to dating age. If he wants to talk to a girl outside of school I check her social media sites. If she is dress poorly I tell him to move on. I tell my son don't seek or encourage behavior from a girl you like that you wouldn't want your sister doing as well.
Don't the boys have a problem with "knowing modesty"? What does that mean, anyway?
Do the boys hold such low value of women that it is effected by their clothing that day? Are women who dress modestly more deserving of respect than those who don't?
You police the girls your sons ^talk^ to? Are they allowed to thank a female who holds the door for them but you judge to be dressed immodestly?
Women are only to be respected if they remind you of your sister?
My sons are expected to respect women period, even if those women don't respect themselves by dressing in a way to draw inappropriate attention to themselves. However, respecting all women doesn't mean all are what I consider worthy of admiration. A 13 year old girl who olds her shirt up to show off her stomach in an online post get blocked. Why? She is seeking attention in the wrong ways. My job is to protect and teach my children. And her parents are obviously not raising her in line with the morals I am teaching mine. Either that or maybe they don't hold her to the standards I hold mine.0 -
If you're referring to the girls outfit I saw, that was my reaction exactly...along with WTF! It's hot where I live but it's not THAT hot!Holy ****.
ETA, that was to Melissay's post.
Sorry I was unclear. I was surprised that an adult would accept their mother or husband making negative comments about their clothing.0 -
My sons are expected to respect women period, even if those women don't respect themselves by dressing in a way to draw inappropriate attention to themselves. However, respecting all women doesn't mean all are what I consider worthy of admiration. A 13 year old girl who olds her shirt up to show off her stomach in an online post get blocked. Why? She is seeking attention in the wrong ways. My job is to protect and teach my children. And her parents are obviously not raising her in line with the morals I am teaching mine. Either that or maybe they don't hold her to the standards I hold mine.
Thank you for taking the time to explain, and I admire you raising your children to respect others, irrespective of what they happen to be wearing that day.
1) I'm not sure how any person can dress in way that makes them responsible for the reactions of others though. I'm thinking of Sophie Lancaster and Robert Maltby here. That's the story I'd be educating my teenagers about.
2) How is showing your tummy wrong - these forums are full of it. Children show their bellies. It doesn't mean they are responsible for men finding them sexually attractive, or at least I don't believe so.0 -
The school my daughters (7 and 9) go to has a policy that includes no licensed characters (no Hello Kitty or Ninja Turtles), and while some parents ignore it, I make my kids adhere to the policy. The teachers explained why the policy exists - because young kids will turn the conversation into what is on the shirt instead of getting their work done. It's the same reason that light up shoes are not permitted in the primary and kinder classes, because it's a distraction. It's also a public charter school and I chose to put my children into the school, so if I didn't like the policy I'd be well within my rights to enroll them at the standard public school down the street.
Seltzer - My kids do dress themselves, and have been for some time. They pick their clothes out at the store, and if they chose something I know is against dress code I let them know it can't be worn to school... spaghetti strap tank tops have to have something over them, halter dresses are not permitted, and they must remain very aware of how they are sitting and playing when wearing a dress and opting out of tights or leggings/shorts underneath. I explain to them that they have to abide by rules, and that not doing so as an adult can have consequences that are far more serious.
My eldest is in a different building now and some of the rules are a little more relaxed, like I permit her to wear her "Soft Kitty" shirt. Their character shirts get worn on weekends, and they are fine with it.
And yep, add me to the "helicopter parent" list. While my kids have expectations in our home and in their school community they are children who are still learning. My job as their mother is to guide them and teach them. I'm that parent who is at the school volunteering, staying late to help clean the classroom, bringing the teacher coffee when we have field trips... I know what is going on with my children, and they don't get to pull the wool over my eyes when something does happen, and believe me they've tried.0 -
It is the rules we had in school and what my kids have now, except for the skinny jeans and tights. We have a problem here and it isn't the dress code. It is kids who don't respect authority, girls who don't know modesty, and boys who don't know how to respect and value young women. I have sons. My oldest is to dating age. If he wants to talk to a girl outside of school I check her social media sites. If she is dress poorly I tell him to move on. I tell my son don't seek or encourage behavior from a girl you like that you wouldn't want your sister doing as well.
Don't the boys have a problem with "knowing modesty"? What does that mean, anyway?
Do the boys hold such low value of women that it is effected by their clothing that day? Are women who dress modestly more deserving of respect than those who don't?
You police the girls your sons ^talk^ to? Are they allowed to thank a female who holds the door for them but you judge to be dressed immodestly?
Women are only to be respected if they remind you of your sister?
My sons are expected to respect women period, even if those women don't respect themselves by dressing in a way to draw inappropriate attention to themselves. However, respecting all women doesn't mean all are what I consider worthy of admiration. A 13 year old girl who olds her shirt up to show off her stomach in an online post get blocked. Why? She is seeking attention in the wrong ways. My job is to protect and teach my children. And her parents are obviously not raising her in line with the morals I am teaching mine. Either that or maybe they don't hold her to the standards I hold mine.
From one formerly sheltered child to someone who sounds a lot like my own mom (trust me,not necessarily a bad thing), keep in mind he's not too far off from an age where he has to make his own decisions about what he finds appropriate. If you block him from too much and protect him too much, there's a good chance he'll have trouble knowing how to handle himself when he goes to college (even if it's a Christian college, he'll still have plenty of room for trouble) or whatever he decides to do when he's 18. A teenage female showing off her stomach is very mild compared to what he's going to be exposed to down the road.
I do like how you tell him not to encourage behavior he wouldn't want to see his sister doing, though. I imagine she looks up to him quite a bit. When they're not acting like typical teenage siblings and threatening each other, that is ;-)0 -
My daughter went to a school where there was a uniform. Part of the girls choices was a kilt. The year my kid started high school the kilts were banned. Girls were shortening them and some wearing nothing underneath.
There needs to be some sort of freedom of expression but a bare azz in school is taking it too far.0 -
Seltzer - My kids do dress themselves, and have been for some time. They pick their clothes out at the store, and if they chose something I know is against dress code I let them know it can't be worn to school... spaghetti strap tank tops have to have something over them, halter dresses are not permitted, and they must remain very aware of how they are sitting and playing when wearing a dress and opting out of tights or leggings/shorts underneath. I explain to them that they have to abide by rules, and that not doing so as an adult can have consequences that are far more serious.
That's cool and all (I mean that sincerely)...but just to be clear, in my post I was talking about teens who are in high school and moving toward college, career, and adult life, not 7 and 9 year olds.
Also about the "helicopter parent" thing...I'm definitely not judging parents for however they wanna raise their children regardless of age...and I know you weren't referencing my post, but I just wanted to say that when I think of helicopter parents I'm thinking more of the moms and dads who request a copy of their COLLEGE AGE kid's syllabus and get the professor's email. Not. Okay. hehe0 -
LOL, my mom or husband wouldn't literally make a comment but would probably look at me funny if I went out with my butt hanging out of my shorts and a few inches away from my boobs falling out of the bottom of my shirt! But I also wouldn't go out dressed like that, now or when I was a teenager, so I don't have anything to worry about in the first place!If you're referring to the girls outfit I saw, that was my reaction exactly...along with WTF! It's hot where I live but it's not THAT hot!Holy ****.
ETA, that was to Melissay's post.
Sorry I was unclear. I was surprised that an adult would accept their mother or husband making negative comments about their clothing.0 -
Knowing Staten Island like I do, yeah dress codes are a wonderful idea.0
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I see this as part of what school is supposed to do - educate & prepare the young for their eventual transition into the adult world. In my experience (I'm 54), dress codes are a fact of life. I have never worked anywhere where there was an "anything goes" attitude toward clothing. One of the things our children need to learn is how and when to "express" themselves; and what the appropriate manner is to do so in a particular situation. I believe this young woman needs to adjust her priorities.............0
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School... Middle and senior high, is as much about learning social skills as it is about learning to think and articulate coherent and rational thoughts... what is and is NOT appropriate dress is part of that education. IS EVERY CHILD going to be able to dictate what they wear to the office? or to their job site? when they enter the workforce? OR is there going to be dress restrictions? IF a parent thinks adhering to a dress code is ridiculous... then THAT parent needs to enroll in Life skills programming so they can understand the societal "NORMS" of Western civilization...and pass those concepts onto their children...
In my mind if a "child" dresses to elicit the attention of "anyone" then that child needs to see a counselor... because they obviously have some internal issues that need addressing... sure.. it could be a phase... bu tmore than likely.. it is a call for help... maybe a cry for help... SO.. forget the envelope these kids are wrapping themselves in and LOOK at the message they are try ing to articulate...
THERE is far more to see here than clothes...0 -
I think it sounds like they are putting WAY too much focus on the clothes. Why not switch it to focusing on behavior...if someone's causing disruption or creating problems at school then of course that should be dealt with.
I think the school should look at choosing their battles a bit more -- the type of student who is all upset about not being able to wear their cropped top and skinny jeans is probably not a student who is going to cause more serious problems in any REAL way. So why create an issue where there is truly little to none? And why waste time policing it?
I live in a smallish Midwestern city and even here, administrators have way bigger issues to deal with like falling test scores, drugs, gang activity, teen pregnancy, hunger, etc... A teenager who shows up to school every morning and does their work is a good teenager for the most part. Why freak out about their clothing, hairstyle, piercings, etc? I think it's a big focus on a relatively small problem that should be a secondary concern if that...just my opinion, though.
I think that the thought is that dressing in a not modest way is a gateway to the other problems you mentioned. Hormones are crazy in teens - now put the girls in clothes that don't cover and maybe you end up with a few more teen pregnancies. I see the point on both sides... but if I were a mom... well I guess it doesn't matter what the school policy is because my kids aren't leaving the house until they're dressed properly (the real issue is parents, no?).0 -
It is the rules we had in school and what my kids have now, except for the skinny jeans and tights. We have a problem here and it isn't the dress code. It is kids who don't respect authority, girls who don't know modesty, and boys who don't know how to respect and value young women. I have sons. My oldest is to dating age. If he wants to talk to a girl outside of school I check her social media sites. If she is dress poorly I tell him to move on. I tell my son don't seek or encourage behavior from a girl you like that you wouldn't want your sister doing as well.
So basically to teach your son that what a woman wears determines her worth as a human...0 -
That dress code sounds an awful lot like the dress code for my office.
But I guess we should let them do whatever they want now because the "real world" doesn't have dress codes, ever.0 -
I think it sounds like they are putting WAY too much focus on the clothes. Why not switch it to focusing on behavior...if someone's causing disruption or creating problems at school then of course that should be dealt with.
I think the school should look at choosing their battles a bit more -- the type of student who is all upset about not being able to wear their cropped top and skinny jeans is probably not a student who is going to cause more serious problems in any REAL way. So why create an issue where there is truly little to none? And why waste time policing it?
I live in a smallish Midwestern city and even here, administrators have way bigger issues to deal with like falling test scores, drugs, gang activity, teen pregnancy, hunger, etc... A teenager who shows up to school every morning and does their work is a good teenager for the most part. Why freak out about their clothing, hairstyle, piercings, etc? I think it's a big focus on a relatively small problem that should be a secondary concern if that...just my opinion, though.
I think that the thought is that dressing in a not modest way is a gateway to the other problems you mentioned. Hormones are crazy in teens - now put the girls in clothes that don't cover and maybe you end up with a few more teen pregnancies. I see the point on both sides... but if I were a mom... well I guess it doesn't matter what the school policy is because my kids aren't leaving the house until they're dressed properly (the real issue is parents, no?).
I guess I just never really saw it that way. Probably because in my school a million years ago (1990s) we had tons of pregnant girls - even two babies born from girls in my class during my 6th grade year - but the only common denominator for 90% of the teen pregnancies seemed to be poverty or low income and parents with serious issues like substance abuse. One of my best friends fit that mold and would attest to the same, in our school district anyway. She always wore baggy flannels and jeans but she sought affection from cute older boys who lacked supervision... Meanwhile the girls who showed a lot of skin and dressed "too sexy for school" were generally higher achievers. In fact, back then the cheer squad and dance team had bare midriff UNIFORMS lol.0 -
I didn't go to school. Problem solved.
Seriously though, most of my friends when I was younger went to public school with uniforms, and they all said they liked having uniforms, that they didn't have to worry about what to wear to school every day, or who had more money to spend on fashion, etc. Part of me winces a little bit at the idea of uniforms because it starts tending toward an image of homogenized programming of the youth, but I think actually wardrobe is just such a huge distraction and superficial concern, that I think a policy of uniforms at school is probably a good idea. Outside of school, wear whatever you want.
Better yet would be a smaller, more localized system for schooling where everyone knows and respects each other and dresses accordingly, but that requires a whole educational overhaul!
To your point, uniforms are a great sigh of relief for families who do not have the income to compete with the fashion of the day. It puts everyone on a more equal socio-economic playing ground.0 -
It is the rules we had in school and what my kids have now, except for the skinny jeans and tights. We have a problem here and it isn't the dress code. It is kids who don't respect authority, girls who don't know modesty, and boys who don't know how to respect and value young women. I have sons. My oldest is to dating age. If he wants to talk to a girl outside of school I check her social media sites. If she is dress poorly I tell him to move on. I tell my son don't seek or encourage behavior from a girl you like that you wouldn't want your sister doing as well.
Don't the boys have a problem with "knowing modesty"? What does that mean, anyway?
Do the boys hold such low value of women that it is effected by their clothing that day? Are women who dress modestly more deserving of respect than those who don't?
You police the girls your sons ^talk^ to? Are they allowed to thank a female who holds the door for them but you judge to be dressed immodestly?
Women are only to be respected if they remind you of your sister?
My sons are expected to respect women period, even if those women don't respect themselves by dressing in a way to draw inappropriate attention to themselves. However, respecting all women doesn't mean all are what I consider worthy of admiration. A 13 year old girl who olds her shirt up to show off her stomach in an online post get blocked. Why? She is seeking attention in the wrong ways. My job is to protect and teach my children. And her parents are obviously not raising her in line with the morals I am teaching mine. Either that or maybe they don't hold her to the standards I hold mine.
From one formerly sheltered child to someone who sounds a lot like my own mom (trust me,not necessarily a bad thing), keep in mind he's not too far off from an age where he has to make his own decisions about what he finds appropriate. If you block him from too much and protect him too much, there's a good chance he'll have trouble knowing how to handle himself when he goes to college (even if it's a Christian college, he'll still have plenty of room for trouble) or whatever he decides to do when he's 18. A teenage female showing off her stomach is very mild compared to what he's going to be exposed to down the road.
I do like how you tell him not to encourage behavior he wouldn't want to see his sister doing, though. I imagine she looks up to him quite a bit. When they're not acting like typical teenage siblings and threatening each other, that is ;-)
They are far from sheltered. In fact from a young age I have always had open conversations with my children about all sorts of moral, social, and even political issues. We have very diverse friends and family. At the end of the day the company they keep is important. So I do monitor their friends, which I think every parent should. They have some friends who they are only allowed to hangout with at our home because I don't think the supervision at the other child's home is great.0 -
It is the rules we had in school and what my kids have now, except for the skinny jeans and tights. We have a problem here and it isn't the dress code. It is kids who don't respect authority, girls who don't know modesty, and boys who don't know how to respect and value young women. I have sons. My oldest is to dating age. If he wants to talk to a girl outside of school I check her social media sites. If she is dress poorly I tell him to move on. I tell my son don't seek or encourage behavior from a girl you like that you wouldn't want your sister doing as well.
So basically to teach your son that what a woman wears determines her worth as a human...
Wow! That's exactly what I said! How were you able to read between the lines so well?!0 -
I see this as part of what school is supposed to do - educate & prepare the young for their eventual transition into the adult world. In my experience (I'm 54), dress codes are a fact of life. I have never worked anywhere where there was an "anything goes" attitude toward clothing. One of the things our children need to learn is how and when to "express" themselves; and what the appropriate manner is to do so in a particular situation. I believe this young woman needs to adjust her priorities.............
You're so right and I didn't even think about it because at my office there is no dress code. However, most jobs DO have a dress code...It's not like being an adult is a free right to dress how you want when you want. You can do what you like in your free time, but just like covering tattoos, keeping hair clean and neat, dressing professionally, are a part of an adult's working life a lot of the itme, it totally should be in school, too.0 -
Seltzer - My kids do dress themselves, and have been for some time. They pick their clothes out at the store, and if they chose something I know is against dress code I let them know it can't be worn to school... spaghetti strap tank tops have to have something over them, halter dresses are not permitted, and they must remain very aware of how they are sitting and playing when wearing a dress and opting out of tights or leggings/shorts underneath. I explain to them that they have to abide by rules, and that not doing so as an adult can have consequences that are far more serious.
That's cool and all (I mean that sincerely)...but just to be clear, in my post I was talking about teens who are in high school and moving toward college, career, and adult life, not 7 and 9 year olds.
Also about the "helicopter parent" thing...I'm definitely not judging parents for however they wanna raise their children regardless of age...and I know you weren't referencing my post, but I just wanted to say that when I think of helicopter parents I'm thinking more of the moms and dads who request a copy of their COLLEGE AGE kid's syllabus and get the professor's email. Not. Okay. hehe
Yeah the helicopter parent portion wasn't aimed at you.
But the fact that I do put my foot down about things with my kids has been called out by other parents TO MY FACE. That lady got a mouthful from me, and then another parent sitting nearby chimed in agreeing with me. Lets just say I knew the mouthy mother's child and she had no room to be telling me how to parent. :grumble:
By the same token I've also lost a friend online because she felt I was expecting too much of my kids because I typically have them make and pack their own lunches. I remind them they need to pack a fruit and a veggie, and that just 2 slices of cheese and a flour tortilla does not constitute a lunch.
Can't win for losing. *shrug*
I might still tell my kids they are not leaving the house dressed inappropriately when they are teens, but I'm hoping that by being consistent with them now when they are older (the teen years are only 3 year and 2 months away) they will make good choices. We're fairly open in our home, so we explain modesty and that no one else gets to see certain body parts... and then my youngest recently asked why I see daddy naked, and I had to explain further (keeping it age appropriate, obviously). :laugh:0 -
To your point, uniforms are a great sigh of relief for families who do not have the income to compete with the fashion of the day. It puts everyone on a more equal socio-economic playing ground.
While I didn't really care if people liked my style in high school, the brand name competition was fierce. Jeans not Tommy Hilfiger? Pffft. Looooooser. :noway:0 -
Most of us have dress codes at our jobs. One responsibility of schools is preparing students to be a part of the work force. Enforcing dress codes in school teaches students that there are consequences for refusing to follow rules and guidelines. They can wear whatever they like outside of school, just like I can wear what I like when I'm not at work. That being said, I do agree that sometimes the reasoning behind some of the rules can be sexist.0
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I went to my first 2 years of high school in "public" clothes. Got ridiculed alot about what I wore (and had no choice since my mom bought the clothes). Last 2 years I went to a private Catholic high school. Having to wear uniforms, I NEVER had an issue with being told about what I wore.Kids NEED guidance at that age. Dress codes are appropriate.
Dress appropriately. School is for learning. This might be a good reason to adopt school uniforms.
I had three daughters. We only had one incident as they went through school. They knew better.
While kids will always find something to criticize about, giving them one less thing for ammo is good.
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Given that the majority of them will hopefully graduate and move into the work force where they will most likely have to abide by some sort of dress code or uniform, I'd say it's much ado about nothing. Isn't school supposed to prepare them for life in general, as well as to cram them full of knowledge?0
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I went to my first 2 years of high school in "public" clothes. Got ridiculed alot about what I wore (and had no choice since my mom bought the clothes). Last 2 years I went to a private Catholic high school. Having to wear uniforms, I NEVER had an issue with being told about what I wore.Kids NEED guidance at that age. Dress codes are appropriate.
Dress appropriately. School is for learning. This might be a good reason to adopt school uniforms.
I had three daughters. We only had one incident as they went through school. They knew better.
While kids will always find something to criticize about, giving them one less thing for ammo is good.
I wish for uniforms. Kids are so mean to each other over clothes. And it cost way less to dress them in uniforms
I've got a friend who bought her daughter a Kate Spade purse and wallet (the girl is 14) just so she wouldn't get teased at school. My kids would have had to risk being teased.0 -
It is the rules we had in school and what my kids have now, except for the skinny jeans and tights. We have a problem here and it isn't the dress code. It is kids who don't respect authority, girls who don't know modesty, and boys who don't know how to respect and value young women. I have sons. My oldest is to dating age. If he wants to talk to a girl outside of school I check her social media sites. If she is dress poorly I tell him to move on. I tell my son don't seek or encourage behavior from a girl you like that you wouldn't want your sister doing as well.
So basically to teach your son that what a woman wears determines her worth as a human...
Wow! That's exactly what I said! How were you able to read between the lines so well?!
Um, seriously, if you can't see that telling your sons a woman is appropriate/inappropriate to date based on how she's dressed in photos on social media sites reduces her to her appearance and not at all respecting her as fully human....0 -
Doesn't almost every aspect of life have a "dress code"? I mean, no shirts, no shoes, no service? I don't understand how a dress code is a bad thing. God forbid kids these days have to follow rules! Are these girls going to whine and complain about their boss and company when they have a job with a dress code? Or call the media outlets when they get written up for breaking it? I think dressing appropriately for the situation is a "life skill" that these kids need. And seriously, the same dress code existed at my high school over 10 years ago with no real problems.0
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I think a lot of good points have been made here about office/workplace dress codes being similar to school dress codes. I never really saw it that way, but I see your point(s)!
When I was a teen I always thought of school as a more laid back place to be, and I started working at a drugstore as a cashier during my sophomore year and I knew that I could NOT have visible tattoos or facial piercings at work, or wear jeans or open-toed shoes...that was so much easier for me to swallow, for whatever reason, than if I'd been told I couldn't wear something at school. I guess because of that big ol' hundred dollar paycheck I was bringing home ;-) But in all seriousness it was a growing experience for me, when friends would shave the side of their head and dye some of their hair blue all I could think was "wow it's gonna be hard to get a job with that" which probably makes me sound like a huge goody-goody, haha...but yeah. For me it was a lesson that my budding independence (which in great part came from those paychecks) was worth more to me than looking "cool".0 -
A couple of years ago, I was dropping my daughter off at her elementary school. There was this kid, probably 1st or 2nd grade, cutest little guy! You could tell things were NOT right at home.
First off the shirt he was wearing was for an adult, NOT a child.
2nd, the shirt had pot leaves & guns printed on the front. =\ Srsly - wtf?!
The security guard (this VERY nice lady) took him aside and told him he couldn't wear that into school. The kid started CRYING. Apparently this wasn't the first time that week the egg donor had sent her child to school wearing something inappropriate. She did take him into the office, and they found him a different shirt to wear, but seriously? WTF?! Who sends their child to school in a pot leaf shirt? ugh....
Yes, I think dress codes are appropriate. Although with all the BS bullying - I WISH they'd go to uniforms. It would make my life as a parent MUCH easier to buy beige pants and navy blue shirts.
I also think if you send your child to school in something completely inappropriate you should be charged with being a total *kitten*. And the punishment? I should get to slap the *kitten* outta them!0 -
I remember a kid in my 3rd grade class had a martini glass shaved into the back of his head!A couple of years ago, I was dropping my daughter off at her elementary school. There was this kid, probably 1st or 2nd grade, cutest little guy! You could tell things were NOT right at home.
First off the shirt he was wearing was for an adult, NOT a child.
2nd, the shirt had pot leaves & guns printed on the front. =\ Srsly - wtf?!
The security guard (this VERY nice lady) took him aside and told him he couldn't wear that into school. The kid started CRYING. Apparently this wasn't the first time that week the egg donor had sent her child to school wearing something inappropriate. She did take him into the office, and they found him a different shirt to wear, but seriously? WTF?! Who sends their child to school in a pot leaf shirt? ugh....
Yes, I think dress codes are appropriate. Although with all the BS bullying - I WISH they'd go to uniforms. It would make my life as a parent MUCH easier to buy beige pants and navy blue shirts.
I also think if you send your child to school in something completely inappropriate you should be charged with being a total *kitten*. And the punishment? I should get to slap the *kitten* outta them!0
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