"Clean" vs. "unclean" eating studies?

SnuggleSmacks

So, I'm genuinely curious. Are there any studies out there on clean vs. unclean diets? For example, something on groups consuming the same number of calories and macros, but one group eating clean while the other eats processed foods? I've been unable to locate such a study, and I'm deeply curious as to how much difference it actually makes. ETA: Including a definition of "clean" in the study would also be very helpful, as that seems to vary wildly from person to person.

I realize that many people feel very passionately about this issue, and that's fine. I have a thick skin, and am willing to be swayed by facts, although I know there will be plenty of bro-science and hyperbole to sort through.

Thanks in advance!

j4nash

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/

j4nash

"Clean" eating helps me hit my macro targets.. it would be difficult to hit them eating fast food. Although I eat ice cream every day. And McDonalds quite a bit.

kristin0715

I know this is going to sound silly but today is the first time I have heard macro. Can you explain what they are to me?

zamphir66

I know this is going to sound silly but today is the first time I have heard macro. Can you explain what they are to me?

Macronutrients: carbs, protein, fat, etc.

SnuggleSmacks

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/

Ha! I know all about the Twinkie diet, as I'm usually the one who posts it. But that doesn't really address the question, as there's no control group and tests to compare. And I'm not interested necessarily in just weight loss, but also in general health markers.

I'm really curious as to whether this clean eating rage makes a real difference, as most of those who tout it claim that while CICO works for weight loss, clean eating also addresses total health. I'd like to see proof of that. Does it exist?

lemurcat12

"Clean" eating helps me hit my macro targets.. it would be difficult to hit them eating fast food. Although I eat ice cream every day. And McDonalds quite a bit.

This gets into the fact that "clean" eating is completely vague and "processed" as usually used by "clean" eaters is incoherent.

I don't like fast food, so almost never eat it, but also I don't eat "clean" because I don't believe in the concept (calling foods dirty, acting as if nutrition is about not eating foods vs seeking out a nutritionally balanced diet). Another reason I think it would be silly for me to give up processed foods is that they are extremely helpful for me in meeting my macros. Greek yogurt, for example.

Oh, and I also like to have ice cream when I have the calories. I don't see why this is bad if I don't skimp on my nutrition to do it.

A study that compared "clean" eating with sensible eating of the sort that seems to be the usual alternative recommended around here would be interesting, but I doubt it's been done. Lots of difficulties. There are efforts to compare vegetarians and not, but causation is always a problem.

MrGonzo05

There was a study, but it was found to be unclean.

rachiealx

There was a study, but it was found to be unclean.

:laugh:

WalkingAlong

You're not going to find a study on 'clean' vs. 'unclean' because those aren't adjectives that any researcher would apply to diet. You might find something specific if you look for it-- diets with more plant fats seem to favor heart health, vegan diets favor ___, macrobiotic diets favor ____, etc.

You're more likely to find studies done on populations with specific dietary habits since you can't really rely on self-reporting for most diet info. You could read the book The China Study. Or read up on the Inuits. The Mediterranean diet. Usually that's where the broad conclusions come from, population studies. Of course they often contradict each other.

I think conventional wisdom is what's boiled down from all these studies. Eat food, not too much, mostly plants. Ok, that's not conventional wisdom, that's Michael Pollan, but I think he nailed it. :laugh:

RodaRose

I think conventional wisdom is what's boiled down from all these studies. Eat food, not too much, mostly plants. Ok, that's not conventional wisdom, that's Michael Pollan, but I think he nailed it. :laugh:

Yes. That is it.

Mr_Knight

Ha! I know all about the Twinkie diet, as I'm usually the one who posts it. But that doesn't really address the question, as there's no control group and tests to compare.

So what? The dude dropped tons of weight, most of it fat, and all his blood tests showed significant improvement.

What else do you need to know, exactly?

You can't address "total health" with just diet - it's going to require exercise as well. Probably a lot of it.

glasshalffull713

following...

WhoWasGivenToFly

So, if a person is 50 lbs over weigh because of eating too much of foods that are considered " clean" ( as in my case, never really ate junk or processed foods, fast foods, etc just serving sizes too big of what I was eating) vs. being 50 lbs overweight from eating too much " unclean" food is the risk of health problems the same? is it the excess body weight that is the health issue or what you ate to have the excess weight the issue?

Always wondered? I know of many people who are of " normal weight" who eating habits are awful but somehow these people are perceived by some as "healthy" because their weight is normal.

neanderthin

RCT's for any length of time with enough participants is prohibitive....never going to happen. You also can't control calorie intake simply because everyone requires different amounts. Genetics, lifestyle, family, culture etc all contribute to someones overall health, food actually isn't that important in the big scheme of things if someone isn't overweight or obese.

Chickaboo2014

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eric_sg61

I am sure these people ate "clean" all there lives and these picture are just flukes. I wonder if those cakes are clean, non-processed,sugar-free, gluten-free, flour-free etc.

glasshalffull713

RCT's for any length of time with enough participants is prohibitive....never going to happen. You also can't control calorie intake simply because everyone requires different amounts. Genetics, lifestyle, family, culture etc all contribute to someones overall health, food actually isn't that important in the big scheme of things if someone isn't overweight or obese.

I am not a scientist so I know nothing about control groups and studies, but is there perhaps a study out there that measures the effects of eating whole vs. processed foods on a group that is within normal weight ranges (so that the obesity issue doesn't play in)?

Of course food is just a small part of our overall health, but I have a hard time believing that a lifetime of eating processed foods full of various lab-made chemicals is not going to have some detrimental effects when compared to eating natural whole foods (preferably not treated with pesticides). At least that is what my gut tells me...

glasshalffull713

I am sure these people ate "clean" all there lives and these picture are just flukes. I wonder if those cakes are clean, non-processed,sugar-free, gluten-free, flour-free etc.

That's not really helpful. There are always outliers. The OP has a legit question- whether or not there are studies out there showing evidence. These pics are hardly evidence, and certainly not studies. And gluten free has nothing to do with clean eating. That is for people who are allergic to gluten.

zyxst

following...

Same

Michelle_Padgett13

I am sure these people ate "clean" all there lives and these picture are just flukes. I wonder if those cakes are clean, non-processed,sugar-free, gluten-free, flour-free etc.

The lady lighting her cigarette on her 100th birthday cake is my new hero.

erickirb

I guess with flexible dieting (unclean) you have to worry a little more about micros (vitamins and minerals) if you do that 50-80% of your diet will probably be "clean" anyway.

Unknown

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eric_sg61

Not a study, but a lot of people wrote to the author about their clean eating experience. I don't think you'll find a study since the definition of "clean" varies between groups of dieters
http://www.healthylivingheavylifting.com/the-perils-of-clean-eating/

darrensurrey

We don't know if the 100 year old smoker took up smoking last year because she got fed up of living an old age.

Certainly, when I hit about 75 I'm going to take up cigar smoking. I love the smell but don't want to die of cancer just yet.

As to CICO, if you're very overweight and at risk of associated medical issues, then even eating doughnuts all day but within your calorie allowance so that you lose weight is going to result in better health. But when you're of a reasonable weight, then someone eating healthy food is going to be getting more nutrients than someone eating jam all day. Do we really need a case study to check this?

lemurcat12

I think conventional wisdom is what's boiled down from all these studies. Eat food, not too much, mostly plants. Ok, that's not conventional wisdom, that's Michael Pollan, but I think he nailed it. :laugh:

Yes. That is it.

But it's not nearly as likely to lead to amusing arguments.

fitcrt

I think you'd have better luck on google - look at things like organic vs non-organic, etc.

999tigger

Im sure there are plenty ill hook one out for you later.

If you eat an ubalanced diet then wouldnt that involve risks from high cholestorol (heart attacks), high salt levels (Strokes), lack of fiber? As well as lack of vitamins and minerals.

glasshalffull713

Not a study, but a lot of people wrote to the author about their clean eating experience. I don't think you'll find a study since the definition of "clean" varies between groups of dieters
http://www.healthylivingheavylifting.com/the-perils-of-clean-eating/

I am definitely going to check that out. Thanks.

I guess I understand there is no real definition of clean, but for me it basically = no processed food with additives, and as organic as possible, especially with meat and dairy and thin skinned fruits and veggies. I am ok with grains, but do not ingest flour, and any processed sugar I barely eat (all forms including brown rice syrup and organic cane sugar, whatever they decide to call it.) I try to stay informed as to which foods tend to be heavily treated with chemicals and buy those organic when possible. I can say anecdotally when I switched to eating this way I lost weight without measuring anything and more importantly I felt better overall (more energy, no stomach issues, etc.) I am curious to see if there is any scientific evidence supporting my experience. I will continue eating this way anyhow, as it suits me, but just interested to see research about it if it exists. Although there may not be research on "clean" eating, I am sure there is on particular additives, chemicals, and pesticides.

Joanne_Moniz

Our bodies were made to eat real food; so it makes sense that anything that is not "real" would wreak havoc eventually. To me, real food, clean food, is anything that has not been altered. Of course, that does not mean cooking.

lemurcat12

So, if a person is 50 lbs over weigh because of eating too much of foods that are considered " clean" ( as in my case, never really ate junk or processed foods, fast foods, etc just serving sizes too big of what I was eating) vs. being 50 lbs overweight from eating too much " unclean" food is the risk of health problems the same? is it the excess body weight that is the health issue or what you ate to have the excess weight the issue?

Always wondered? I know of many people who are of " normal weight" who eating habits are awful but somehow these people are perceived by some as "healthy" because their weight is normal.

I ate healthy most of the time I was getting fat too (and was extremely unhealthy for a while before that when I was a good weight). I managed to have no negative results in either case, medically, at least based on tests and general health and so on. By the end my lack of fitness while fat was starting to be obviously hard on my body, though, which is one reason I think I finally had enough.

But personal results aside, I think the evidence is that being obese is bad for you independent of what you eat. The excess weight is the issue. Within the overweight category, it's really more a question of fitness and there I think if you exercise and eat well it's not really unhealthy.