"Clean" vs. "unclean" eating studies?

212019156

I think it ultimately comes down to calories as far as losing or gaining weight. But, eating "clean" I think reduces cravings, and reduces hunger due to sugar highs and lows. In addition for the most part "unclean" foods will usually be more calorie dense which makes it more likely for you to eat more calories.

From personal experience I have a hard time overeating if I eat "clean" foods only. Junk food never satiates and always stimulates my appetite.

WalkingAlong

I don't have studies for it but it wouldn't surprise me if additives, preservatives and plant engineering have had a net positive effect on human health, given that they've made food more plentiful, transportable and shelf stable. You'd have to look at a long enough time frame and a large enough area for hunger to be an issue, though.

Back to 'clean'-- Jack Lalanne had an interesting life. He ate obsessively 'clean', in fact he hadn't eaten sugar since 1929. He spent like 4 hours a day in the gym. He died fairly healthy and capable. I personally would rather enjoy life more and possibly die younger.

I think a lot of the issue with proving how a diet affects health is we don't know which parts of our health are hurt/helped by our diet. Did we get cancer from the free radicals from a lazy diet or from our genes? It's easier with obesity-related illnesses but those aren't the only disease.

Clearly obesity kills, regardless of food quality. You see really old people and really fat people but few really old, really fat people.

MityMax96

I think living to be 100 is more to do with genetics than anything.....
I have heard a lot of ppl that were 100 and smoked....
George Burns....did he smoke?

independant2406

I don't have studies for it but it wouldn't surprise me if additives, preservatives and plant engineering have had a net positive effect on human health, given that they've made food more plentiful, transportable and shelf stable. You'd have to look at a long enough time frame and a large enough area for hunger to be an issue, though.

This is true. Making food a mass production definitely helps with preventing hunger, and also "enriches" the foods to give them nutritional value and to prevent vitamin deficiencies that were an issue in past history.

Weather these changes/benefits outweigh the negative impact of processed food is nearly impossible to measure.

SnuggleSmacks

Thank you guys for the informative articles. I'm still really confused, though, and I think it has to do with defining terms, as previously mentioned.

I have seen the word "additives" used a lot in your responses. What exactly is an additive? Is sprinkling cinnamon in your coffee an additive? Is a pinch of gelatin added to your beaten eggwhites to keep their peaks an additive? And for the more "chemical" additives born in a lab, if they're non-toxic and serve a purpose in the food in order to improve taste/texture/longevity, then exactly what specific negative effects do they have on health markers?

I've also seen the word "processed" bounced around a lot, and specifically "canned food" and "tv dinners." So, if I buy high quality frozen dinners, like Kashi, for instance, with no preservatives and all organic foods, is that "processed"? Is it "clean"? And what difference does canning make? What if the items are packaged in hermetic packaging (those little cardboard boxes like a Juice Box) instead of cans? Does that make it cleaner? And what if my choices are to buy canned/packaged/frozen vegetables or have a very limited selection of fresh veggies, like just corn and potatoes, like the people living in "food deserts" where fresh produce is unavailable? And what if I make my own meals with fresh, organic food, and then freeze it? Does that make it unclean?

So what I'm gathering from the responses is that there simply is no such study, possibly because the definitions are nonsensical and random. Vegetarian and vegan studies just aren't the same thing at all. I guess my own failure to locate one wasn't due to any lack in my sleuthing skills after all.

SnuggleSmacks

If you look at "clean" foods they are typically lower in calories, carbohydrates,salt, artificial sugars and weird chemicals. They also have more fiber, healthy fats/oils, natural sugars and nutritional value.

I guess that depends on your definition of "clean." I've seen plenty of processed food that is high in fiber and was fortified with extra vitamins. Clean? Processed? Nutritious? *shrug* Some foods are harmful in excess in their natural states...I wouldn't want to eat raw cashews, because they're toxic. Only processed cashews are safe to eat...does that make them unclean?

Here's some facts supported by scientific study and history:

The creation of processed foods began as a government project during the great depression and the world wars, when it became necessary to have cheap food fast. (MRE's etc). After World War 2 more women began working full time and needed easy foods like Jello, Cheerios and TV dinners to feed their families.

Now take a look at some facts about american's weight during this timeframe and the introduction of these processed foods:
http://authoritynutrition.com/11-graphs-that-show-what-is-wrong-with-modern-diet/
Notice a trend?

What I see is that waistlines began expanding about 100 years before sugar intake increased, and weight too a really sharp upward curve about 60 years prior to the sugar rush. Am I reading this wrong?

If you look at the % of Americans who are overweight, they are usually found in the lower income bracket and eat more processed foods (because its cheaper to eat off the $1 menu than to buy healthy foods.) Wealthier Americans eat more clean foods (because they can afford it) and tend to weigh less.

Sources:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19589839
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19298418

There have been studies showing the marked increase in weight gain in America and comparing it to rise in the price of healthy food.

"In the past 30 years, the price of fruit and vegetables rose much faster than the prices of all other consumer goods in the U.S. At the same time, the price of sugar, sweets, and carbonated drinks declined relative to other products, (64)"
Source: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/food-environment-and-obesity/

Logically, it would seem that the increase in obesity with processed foods has more to do with caloric intake than with clean/unclean. It's more difficult to eat at maintenance when you're eating off the dollar menu at the local Taco Bell...so again, if adjusted for caloric intake, is there a difference? And what about other health markers besides weight?

A few scientists are talking openly about clean foods though. If you Google Dr. David Katz, the director of Yale's Prevention Research Center he has done several interviews promoting clean foods vs processed foods.

Thanks, I'll definitely check that out.

I also encourage you to research the eating habits in European countries vs. America. Google "slow food Europe." Having traveled overseas I can tell you Europeans have cracked down hard on things like trans fats that are a result of super processed foods.There's a trend towards "slow food" rather than "fast food". This means they still eat Pasta and bread but likely it was made at a local bakery, or that same day at the restaurant and not in a huge factory and loaded full of chemicals to give it a long shelf life. Due to strict regulations on the meat industry they can also track exactly which cow and which farm your slab of beef came from.

Can you lose weight while eating processed foods? Yep.
Is it healthier to eat clean foods? Yep.

But, again, why is it healthier? What specific health markers are affected by clean eating vs. unclean, with similar calories and macros?

Propylene glycol - commonly found on pre-packaged salads as a preservative - is also found in antifreeze and sexual lubricants.

Tertiary butylhydroquinone - chicken product preservative - a form of butane (aka Lighter Fluid)

Dimethylpolysiloxane - soft drinks, instant coffees, chewing gum, vinegars, cooking oils, confectionary snacks, syrups and chocolates. Dimethylpolysiloxane is used in the manufacturing of skimmed milk and wine fermentation. It can also be found energy or electrolyte drinks. - Also used as an anti-foaming agent for silly putty, cosmetics, shampoos, creation of heat-resistant tiles, caulking, and industrial oils.

E451 — Potassium and sodium triphosphates - processed meats - found in flame retardants, rubber and anti-freeze.

Are these bad for us? Probably. No serious long or short term studies have been done. But boy are they wonderfully chemically engineered to look, feel and taste yummy

And the typical response to this makes sense: modern drugs. Totally unnatural, "unclean" and chemical, but I sure wouldn't want to do without them. What's the difference between that and the things on this list? Aren't many life-sustaining drugs way more harmful than anything on this list? Where should the line be drawn?

ghosthackexe

Idk I like eating clean just because I feel like I can eat more or at least I feel fuller thats really it. Oh and sat fats probably aren't the greatest thing for you and I always assumed when I told myself that I wanted to lose weight that if I clean eat now it'll have a positive affect on my elderly life ^_^. I mean all in all why NOT eat clean ya know? now I'm not saying treating yourself everyonce and awhile is the end of the world but as I'm typing this I've got some rice, chicken, and avocado in front of me and tbh its as good as anything else. I mean theres really no point to not eating clean if you have doubts about a certain food dont know if its good for you or what not IE fast food, pizza, ect then why even risk it? again not saying every once and awhile is bad but ..... you get my drift

SnuggleSmacks

Idk I like eating clean just because I feel like I can eat more or at least I feel fuller thats really it. Oh and sat fats probably aren't the greatest thing for you and I always assumed when I told myself that I wanted to lose weight that if I clean eat now it'll have a positive affect on my elderly life ^_^. I mean all in all why NOT eat clean ya know? now I'm not saying treating yourself everyonce and awhile is the end of the world but as I'm typing this I've got some rice, chicken, and avocado in front of me and tbh its as good as anything else. I mean theres really no point to not eating clean if you have doubts about a certain food dont know if its good for you or what not IE fast food, pizza, ect then why even risk it? again not saying every once and awhile is bad but ..... you get my drift

But why would anyone give up pizza and ice cream and cashews and other things they truly enjoy if there is no proof of any negative effects? And would the pizza be "clean" if you made it yourself? If so, what's the difference between you making it and a restaurant making it? What if it's a restaurant that specializes in local and organic foods? Is it "clean" then?

MityMax96

Idk I like eating clean just because I feel like I can eat more or at least I feel fuller thats really it. Oh and sat fats probably aren't the greatest thing for you and I always assumed when I told myself that I wanted to lose weight that if I clean eat now it'll have a positive affect on my elderly life ^_^. I mean all in all why NOT eat clean ya know? now I'm not saying treating yourself everyonce and awhile is the end of the world but as I'm typing this I've got some rice, chicken, and avocado in front of me and tbh its as good as anything else. I mean theres really no point to not eating clean if you have doubts about a certain food dont know if its good for you or what not IE fast food, pizza, ect then why even risk it? again not saying every once and awhile is bad but ..... you get my drift

I ate an entire large pizza this past sunday night.....
It was delicious.

ninerbuff

TOO many people on this site try to over think and "beat" the system on weight loss/health.

It boils down to CICO for weight loss. It boils down to correct macro/micro balance with health.

If you feel you LACK the correct macro/micro nutrients to meet the goal you're trying to attain (whether it be healthier, adding muscle, etc), then CHANGE THEM to fit it. Whether it's "clean" or processed ISN'T going to matter much at all.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

BlueBombers

Yes! Another "clean eating" thread!

Francl27

Gotta say, I love that Firefly gif.

The_Enginerd

Additionally. I encourage you to educate yourself on what many processed foods contain.

Propylene glycol - commonly found on pre-packaged salads as a preservative - is also found in antifreeze and sexual lubricants.

Tertiary butylhydroquinone - chicken product preservative - a form of butane (aka Lighter Fluid)

Dimethylpolysiloxane - soft drinks, instant coffees, chewing gum, vinegars, cooking oils, confectionary snacks, syrups and chocolates. Dimethylpolysiloxane is used in the manufacturing of skimmed milk and wine fermentation. It can also be found energy or electrolyte drinks. - Also used as an anti-foaming agent for silly putty, cosmetics, shampoos, creation of heat-resistant tiles, caulking, and industrial oils.

E451 — Potassium and sodium triphosphates - processed meats - found in flame retardants, rubber and anti-freeze.

Are these bad for us? Probably. No serious long or short term studies have been done. But boy are they wonderfully chemically engineered to look, feel and taste yummy

Oh yes... the "processed foods contain these scary sounding chemicals which are also used for these unappetizing scary uses" argument.

Blueberries contain ethyl butyrate, a plasticizer for cellulose, and pentanal, used in resin chemistry and rubber accelerators.

k8blujay2

In for a Wash dinosaur gif.

independant2406

If you look at "clean" foods they are typically lower in calories, carbohydrates,salt, artificial sugars and weird chemicals. They also have more fiber, healthy fats/oils, natural sugars and nutritional value.

I guess that depends on your definition of "clean." I've seen plenty of processed food that is high in fiber and was fortified with extra vitamins. Clean? Processed? Nutritious? *shrug* Some foods are harmful in excess in their natural states...I wouldn't want to eat raw cashews, because they're toxic. Only processed cashews are safe to eat...does that make them unclean?

Here's some facts supported by scientific study and history:

The creation of processed foods began as a government project during the great depression and the world wars, when it became necessary to have cheap food fast. (MRE's etc). After World War 2 more women began working full time and needed easy foods like Jello, Cheerios and TV dinners to feed their families.

Now take a look at some facts about american's weight during this timeframe and the introduction of these processed foods:
http://authoritynutrition.com/11-graphs-that-show-what-is-wrong-with-modern-diet/
Notice a trend?

What I see is that waistlines began expanding about 100 years before sugar intake increased, and weight too a really sharp upward curve about 60 years prior to the sugar rush. Am I reading this wrong?

If you look at the % of Americans who are overweight, they are usually found in the lower income bracket and eat more processed foods (because its cheaper to eat off the $1 menu than to buy healthy foods.) Wealthier Americans eat more clean foods (because they can afford it) and tend to weigh less.

Sources:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19589839
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19298418

There have been studies showing the marked increase in weight gain in America and comparing it to rise in the price of healthy food.

"In the past 30 years, the price of fruit and vegetables rose much faster than the prices of all other consumer goods in the U.S. At the same time, the price of sugar, sweets, and carbonated drinks declined relative to other products, (64)"
Source: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/food-environment-and-obesity/

Logically, it would seem that the increase in obesity with processed foods has more to do with caloric intake than with clean/unclean. It's more difficult to eat at maintenance when you're eating off the dollar menu at the local Taco Bell...so again, if adjusted for caloric intake, is there a difference? And what about other health markers besides weight?

A few scientists are talking openly about clean foods though. If you Google Dr. David Katz, the director of Yale's Prevention Research Center he has done several interviews promoting clean foods vs processed foods.

Thanks, I'll definitely check that out.

I also encourage you to research the eating habits in European countries vs. America. Google "slow food Europe." Having traveled overseas I can tell you Europeans have cracked down hard on things like trans fats that are a result of super processed foods.There's a trend towards "slow food" rather than "fast food". This means they still eat Pasta and bread but likely it was made at a local bakery, or that same day at the restaurant and not in a huge factory and loaded full of chemicals to give it a long shelf life. Due to strict regulations on the meat industry they can also track exactly which cow and which farm your slab of beef came from.

Can you lose weight while eating processed foods? Yep.
Is it healthier to eat clean foods? Yep.

But, again, why is it healthier? What specific health markers are affected by clean eating vs. unclean, with similar calories and macros?

Propylene glycol - commonly found on pre-packaged salads as a preservative - is also found in antifreeze and sexual lubricants.

Tertiary butylhydroquinone - chicken product preservative - a form of butane (aka Lighter Fluid)

Dimethylpolysiloxane - soft drinks, instant coffees, chewing gum, vinegars, cooking oils, confectionary snacks, syrups and chocolates. Dimethylpolysiloxane is used in the manufacturing of skimmed milk and wine fermentation. It can also be found energy or electrolyte drinks. - Also used as an anti-foaming agent for silly putty, cosmetics, shampoos, creation of heat-resistant tiles, caulking, and industrial oils.

E451 — Potassium and sodium triphosphates - processed meats - found in flame retardants, rubber and anti-freeze.

Are these bad for us? Probably. No serious long or short term studies have been done. But boy are they wonderfully chemically engineered to look, feel and taste yummy

And the typical response to this makes sense: modern drugs. Totally unnatural, "unclean" and chemical, but I sure wouldn't want to do without them. What's the difference between that and the things on this list? Aren't many life-sustaining drugs way more harmful than anything on this list? Where should the line be drawn?

Sounds like you already have made up your mind about what is healthy for you. If so. Thats great if it works for you.

What I see in the graphs is a marked upward trend in weight and calorie intake in the 1950's-1960s when processed foods and fast food take off as an everyday staple.

Logically, it would seem that the increase in obesity with processed foods has more to do with caloric intake than with clean/unclean. It's more difficult to eat at maintenance when you're eating off the dollar menu at the local Taco Bell...so again, if adjusted for caloric intake, is there a difference? And what about other health markers besides weight?

And how do we account for the sudden increase in calorie intake? Companies chemically engineer cigarettes to be addictive. Can you prove they don't do the same to foods? Like I said. Search google scholar and It'll show you all the research that is out there specific to making processed food more appealing (read: addictive).

Statistically morbid obesity brings on other health markers (diabetes, high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke etc) so I'm not sure I understand your question there. Yes they definitely pump in extra vitamins, artificial fiber and the like so we don't have people running around dying of scurvy and other illnesses like that. But we've gained a marked increase in obesity and the other illnesses listed above. Where are those coming from? Is it random? Does food play no role in it?

Any diabetic will tell you that eating specific foods will trigger problems with their condition.
At the same time we don't know for sure what causes diabetes. We do know diabetes is less common in countries that eat very little processed food (even those that have very good caloric intake). Is this a coincidence?

As Europe, Japan and other countries have introduced more processed food and fast food they've seen increases in rates of obesity and calorie intake and childhood obesity. How do we explain this if not the food?

I posted several links and quotes showing why its healthier to eat fruit,veggies, whole grains and meats in their original state (what I'm calling clean foods). You seem to have skipped over those. I'll post them again to clarify.

From the perspective of weight loss:
"What foods leave you fuller longer?

Potatoes
Fish
Oatmeal
Oranges
Apples
Brown pasta
Beef
Beans
Grapes
Whole meal/Grain bread
Popcorn
Eggs
Cheese
White rice
Lentils
Brown Rice"
Source: S.H.A. Holt, J.C. Brand Miller, P. Petocz, and E. Farmakalidis,
"A Satiety Index of Common Foods," European Journal of Clinical Nutrition, September 1995, pages 675-690.

Vegetables, fruits, and lean meats, do a better job of satisfying your hunger.
"Chicken, beef, fish, beans, or other high-protein foods slow the movement of food from the stomach to the intestine. Slower stomach emptying means you feel full for longer and get hungrier later. Second, protein’s gentle, steady effect on blood sugar avoids the quick, steep rise in blood sugar and just as quick hunger-bell-ringing fall that occurs after eating a rapidly digested carbohydrate, like white bread or baked potato. Third, the body uses more energy to digest protein than it does to digest fat or carbohydrate. (14)"
Source: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/protein-full-story/

From the perspective of health and nutritional value: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092422440800229X

Someone else posted about the Mediterranean diet studies and those are also very good evidence that specific foods are healthier than others.

Do we have proof the chemical ingredients are making people fat? No.
Are people getting fatter and eating more calories since processed foods and fast food chains were introduced? Yes.
Are the two connected? That's up to you to decide.


Hope you have lots of success in your journey.

independant2406

You really don't need to copy/paste the same things twice. I get that your idea of health is eating the same 10 foods all the time. But I have no interest in living my life that way. You wanna cut out pizza? Cool. But I'm certainly not going to. Especially since I manage to lose weight and get fit without excluding it from my life.

You really don't need to read my posts either if you don't like them. I was replying to questions directed to me.

Happy you found something that works for you. Cheers.

MityMax96

And how do we account for the sudden increase in calorie intake? Companies chemically engineer cigarettes to be addictive. Can you prove they don't do the same to foods? Like I said. Search google scholar and It'll show you all the research that is out there specific to making processed food more appealing (read: addictive).

Statistically morbid obesity brings on other health markers (diabetes, high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke etc) so I'm not sure I understand your question there. Yes they definitely pump in extra vitamins, artificial fiber and the like so we don't have people running around dying of scurvy and other illnesses like that. But we've gained a marked increase in obesity and the other illnesses listed above. Where are those coming from? Is it random? Does food play no role in it?

Are you an adult?
Can you make choices on your own?

So what if they do make it more addictive....
They ain't forcing it down your throat......

MY GOD, take some damn responsibility at some point, and stop blaming others or some big company.

It is coming from the fact that we have more food available
More jobs are sedentary
ppl sit on their fat *kitten* a lot more
technology....
laziness

pick anything you like.....

COMES DOWN TO CHOICES

praisingHimtoday

I went to googlescholar.com to search articles and typed in "weight loss processed versus unprocessed food" and this article was the best fit in the 5 or 6 I saw on first page of hits: http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(11)63262-X/fulltext I just scanned it, but it may give you some information, although it is mainly about the benefits of paleo eating. It also has a lengthy list of research referenced at the end of it and you may find more journal articles of interest on the subject. Everyone is right about how "clean" and "unclean" are the wrong search perameters to use...try other more specific ones and I'm pretty sure you'll find the information you are looking for. Best wishes in your search, and to our good health!