Is strength training cardio?

13

Replies

  • TriShamelessly
    TriShamelessly Posts: 905 Member
    [/quote]

    I bet someone that can run a marathon can't swim 2 miles at a tidy pace!

    Two types of cardiovascular fitness. Cardiovascular health and specific muscle fitness. You need to train route specific if you want to run a marathon, or swim a mile or ride a bike. If you don't want to do that, lifting weights is just fine. Lifting heavy raises my heart rate to near it's max and my resting heart rate is sub 50. I'd say that's pretty healthy cardiovascular wise but I couldn't run 2 miles, swim 4 lengths..
    [/quote]

    Ironmen/women would disagree with you completely!
  • whovian67
    whovian67 Posts: 608 Member
    Bump.. not sure if I will answer appropraitely.

    I think things like Crossfit are cardio.. sustained elevated HR. 30 min - 60 min = cardio with no lapse >20 seconds between changing modes of strength exercsises.

    I think strength training in general is not a sustained elevated HR
  • branflakes1980
    branflakes1980 Posts: 2,516 Member
    Just my $0.02 there are those who love cardio and those who love lifting, then there are those like me who happen to love and do both. Either way, if you cardio, lift, or both we are all in this to be the best possible versions of us that we can be so I am unsure what there is to argue about? Can't we all just get along?

    fez_I_love_you.gif
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
    Can't we all just get along?

    Welcome to the human race. You must be new.
  • branflakes1980
    branflakes1980 Posts: 2,516 Member
    Can't we all just get along?

    Welcome to the human race. You must be new.

    You took an extremely positive post and did that ^^^. Nope, not new been at it for 34 years and hopefully alot more to follow, and I choose to spend those years promoting positivity, except of course when there is clearly no positivity to be spread. Thank yo sir for your snarky comment. Much appreciated. :flowerforyou:
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
    Can't we all just get along?

    Welcome to the human race. You must be new.

    You took an extremely positive post and did that ^^^. Nope, not new been at it for 34 years and hopefully alot more to follow, and I choose to spend those years promoting positivity, except of course when there is clearly no positivity to be spread. Thank yo sir for your snarky comment. Much appreciated. :flowerforyou:

    It was a joke.

    I actually agree with what you said. I too enjoy cardio and lifting and do both - lots.

    But OP did exactly what he set out to achieve, got everyone arguing.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    Here's a comparison of what a year of serious strength training, and a year of serious run training can achieve. Same year, by the way.

    Over the past year, I have progressed to deadlifting 2x body weight (330lb, yesterday), running a 22m 5k, and a 52m 10k. So if you could run a 22m 5k with strength training only, I'd agree with you. I'd also say that it would be a fair comparison to ask a non-strength trained runner if they could dead 2xbw. But you didn't do it in 22m. You did it in 33m.

    That's an 11m pace, which barely qualifies as a casual jog. If you put up that pace in an Army physical fitness test, you'd fail. Any slower and you'd be walking. That's the running equivalent of 1xbw deadlift - utterly unimpressive, and leaving people saying "it's great that he's trying!". Kudos to you for getting out there and doing it, and lifting has obviously given you a cardio base, but it's the same base that you build in 9 weeks of couch to 5k. So you've really proved approximately nothing.

    Yes, lifting will give you a cardio base better than the average couch potato. And if that's all you want, then great, skip the cardio. But if you want a heart that's as strong as the body you keep it in, some form of cardio training is necessary.

    Barbells for strength, cardio for endurance. Comparing the two is like comparing fish to bicycles.

    Good summary--it's not that complicated unless you want to make it complicated.
  • darrensurrey
    darrensurrey Posts: 3,942 Member
    I've done strength training for over 2 years. During winter my cardiovascular level drops considerably and I notice it when I try to repeatedly sprint across a tennis court first time we get a bit of dry weather in spring. Takes about a month training once or twice a week before I'm able to run back and forth without feeling like my heart's going to explode out of my chest and my neck's going to tear itself open.
  • _Zardoz_
    _Zardoz_ Posts: 3,987 Member
    Here's where I torque the cardio only crowd: I bet a dime on a donut that someone who has only done cardio training cannot deadlift 2x their body weight in a week starting from a dead stop. I am going to contend that strength training alone is better overall for fitness than cardio alone.

    I bet you a dime on a donut that someone who has only done strength training can't run a half marathon in under 2 hours in a week's training.
    /endofthread
  • TriNoob
    TriNoob Posts: 96 Member
    Here's where I torque the cardio only crowd: I bet a dime on a donut that someone who has only done cardio training cannot deadlift 2x their body weight in a week starting from a dead stop. I am going to contend that strength training alone is better overall for fitness than cardio alone.

    I bet you a dime on a donut that someone who has only done strength training can't run a half marathon in under 2 hours in a week's training.

    I bet someone that can run a marathon can't swim 2 miles at a tidy pace!

    Two types of cardiovascular fitness. Cardiovascular health and specific muscle fitness. You need to train route specific if you want to run a marathon, or swim a mile or ride a bike. If you don't want to do that, lifting weights is just fine. Lifting heavy raises my heart rate to near it's max and my resting heart rate is sub 50. I'd say that's pretty healthy cardiovascular wise but I couldn't run 2 miles, swim 4 lengths..

    I'd bet you're wrong. In fact, I'd bet that someone could swim 2.4 miles, bike 112 and THEN run a marathon at a tidy pace. :-)

    Agree with you about route specific training though.
  • runner475
    runner475 Posts: 1,236 Member
    ......
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
    Here's where I torque the cardio only crowd: I bet a dime on a donut that someone who has only done cardio training cannot deadlift 2x their body weight in a week starting from a dead stop. I am going to contend that strength training alone is better overall for fitness than cardio alone.

    I bet you a dime on a donut that someone who has only done strength training can't run a half marathon in under 2 hours in a week's training.

    I bet someone that can run a marathon can't swim 2 miles at a tidy pace!

    Two types of cardiovascular fitness. Cardiovascular health and specific muscle fitness. You need to train route specific if you want to run a marathon, or swim a mile or ride a bike. If you don't want to do that, lifting weights is just fine. Lifting heavy raises my heart rate to near it's max and my resting heart rate is sub 50. I'd say that's pretty healthy cardiovascular wise but I couldn't run 2 miles, swim 4 lengths..

    I'd bet you're wrong. In fact, I'd bet that someone could swim 2.4 miles, bike 112 and THEN run a marathon at a tidy pace. :-)

    Agree with you about route specific training though.

    Sure hope you're right, or my plans for 2017 are going to all go a bit Pete Tong.
  • Chief_Rocka
    Chief_Rocka Posts: 4,710 Member
    Heavy strength training is an effective form of cardiovascular fitness.

    I wouldn't put it quite that way, but there is absolutely no doubt that strength training does improve cardiovascular fitness.


    I am going to contend that strength training alone is better overall for fitness than cardio alone.

    I would agree with this for this reason: Strength training improves cardiovascular fitness, but the reverse isn't really true.
  • _Waffle_
    _Waffle_ Posts: 13,049 Member
    Barbells for strength, cardio for endurance. Comparing the two is like comparing fish to bicycles.

    PeteBeard.jpg
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
    Do I get a donut now?

    Here you go
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwEFI4Q7ChEF2qOSCd7RxvIIKRUj9IYBaLuLO0CUhz_ED9EyfGUg

    Thanks. I'll send you a dime when I get a chance.

    I got this one.

    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[/img]
  • NextPage
    NextPage Posts: 609 Member
    Didn't you guys notice during the last summer Olympics when Canada had a power lifter sub for the sprinter and he won two gold medals? :laugh:
  • Timshel_
    Timshel_ Posts: 22,834 Member
    The level of understanding the benefits of cardio and strength training, and the importance of both is on par as usual.

    Now all we need are those BB 'coaches' to come in and school us on nutrition.
  • tomcornhole
    tomcornhole Posts: 1,084 Member
    This site says a 70% DL weight for a 200 lbs male over 40 is 395 lbs (~2x BW) lbs:

    http://www.lonkilgore.com/freebies/deadlift_standards_pounds_small.pdf

    This site says a 70% 5k time for a 48 yo male is 20:30 minutes:

    http://www.runnersworld.com/tools/age-graded-calculator

    Holy hell, that's fast. Gonna have to agree with ya'll on this one. Except for the ones that made fun of my name. That's just mean. For those that asked for a donut, if you send me your address, I will send you a donut from Holtman's here in Cincinnati. Their kettle cooked twists are to die for.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
    ITT I learned I'm weak *and* slow.

    :indifferent:
  • whovian67
    whovian67 Posts: 608 Member
    Just my $0.02 there are those who love cardio and those who love lifting, then there are those like me who happen to love and do both. Either way, if you cardio, lift, or both we are all in this to be the best possible versions of us that we can be so I am unsure what there is to argue about? Can't we all just get along?

    fez_I_love_you.gif

    Yeah.. What BranFlake said.... I cant believe there is another Branflake out here. That's my daiughters name
  • _Terrapin_
    _Terrapin_ Posts: 4,301 Member
    Here's a comparison of what a year of serious strength training, and a year of serious run training can achieve. Same year, by the way.

    Over the past year, I have progressed to deadlifting 2x body weight (330lb, yesterday), running a 22m 5k, and a 52m 10k. So if you could run a 22m 5k with strength training only, I'd agree with you. I'd also say that it would be a fair comparison to ask a non-strength trained runner if they could dead 2xbw. But you didn't do it in 22m. You did it in 33m.

    That's an 11m pace, which barely qualifies as a casual jog. If you put up that pace in an Army physical fitness test, you'd fail. Any slower and you'd be walking. That's the running equivalent of 1xbw deadlift - utterly unimpressive, and leaving people saying "it's great that he's trying!". Kudos to you for getting out there and doing it, and lifting has obviously given you a cardio base, but it's the same base that you build in 9 weeks of couch to 5k. So you've really proved approximately nothing.

    Yes, lifting will give you a cardio base better than the average couch potato. And if that's all you want, then great, skip the cardio. But if you want a heart that's as strong as the body you keep it in, some form of cardio training is necessary.

    Barbells for strength, cardio for endurance. Comparing the two is like comparing fish to bicycles.

    Just out of curiosity, what was your 5K and 10K times at the start of the year? And what was your deadlift?
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
    Here's a comparison of what a year of serious strength training, and a year of serious run training can achieve. Same year, by the way.

    Over the past year, I have progressed to deadlifting 2x body weight (330lb, yesterday), running a 22m 5k, and a 52m 10k. So if you could run a 22m 5k with strength training only, I'd agree with you. I'd also say that it would be a fair comparison to ask a non-strength trained runner if they could dead 2xbw. But you didn't do it in 22m. You did it in 33m.

    That's an 11m pace, which barely qualifies as a casual jog. If you put up that pace in an Army physical fitness test, you'd fail. Any slower and you'd be walking. That's the running equivalent of 1xbw deadlift - utterly unimpressive, and leaving people saying "it's great that he's trying!". Kudos to you for getting out there and doing it, and lifting has obviously given you a cardio base, but it's the same base that you build in 9 weeks of couch to 5k. So you've really proved approximately nothing.

    Yes, lifting will give you a cardio base better than the average couch potato. And if that's all you want, then great, skip the cardio. But if you want a heart that's as strong as the body you keep it in, some form of cardio training is necessary.

    Barbells for strength, cardio for endurance. Comparing the two is like comparing fish to bicycles.

    Just out of curiosity, what was your 5K and 10K times at the start of the year? And what was your deadlift?

    Around 30 minutes after graduating C25k. My very first 10k time was around 1h5m if I recall correctly.

    Hard to say on my deadlift - I started with Strong Lifts, so was on 95lbs at first. I obviously could have lifted more than that, but I wanted to start carefully and I was in no rush to test my 1RM. 225lb is perhaps a reasonable guess at what my 1RM might have been at that time.
  • _Terrapin_
    _Terrapin_ Posts: 4,301 Member
    @ stumblinthrulife

    Thanks for the reply and congrats on your times. As for old Tom you mentioned his pace below:

    "That's an 11m pace, which barely qualifies as a casual jog. If you put up that pace in an Army physical fitness test, you'd fail. Any slower and you'd be walking."

    For a 47 YO male a 22 minute 2 mile fitness test time would provide 40 points. He falls in the 47-51 category. For sharts and goggles, if he ran a faster 2 miles, say 20 minutes he'd have 56 points. I remember a CW4 who maxed out his last fitness test ( all 3 measurements) prior to retirement. He ran a 14:10( 2 mile run) at age 51.
  • tomcornhole
    tomcornhole Posts: 1,084 Member
    Go Navy. Beat Army.
  • Go_Mizzou99
    Go_Mizzou99 Posts: 2,628 Member
    So what happened to the bacon?
    I saw the doughnut...but no bacon?

    giphy.gif
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Some in the cardio crowd would probably argue that a >30 min 5k or >68 min 10k isn't exactly comparable to a 2x bw deadlift.



    But anyhow, I'm in...

    ...to catch up on this sure-to-be-awesome thread.

    this- you're achievements aren't comparable.

    I can run a sub 30 5K with NO training what so ever- I have a good running background and the mental hudspa to just gut through it.

    I could probably run a 10K in 50 something minutes.

    While those are decent times for not training- they aren't comparable to a 2.5x body weight lift. Period.
  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member
    interesting thread
  • tomcornhole
    tomcornhole Posts: 1,084 Member
    interesting thread

    Yes it is. Many questioned the validity of the hypothesis with valid arguments (more than I expected). Some just ridiculed (less than I expected). Some were as arrogant as my original post (about what I expected). I did expect more than 4 pages of replies though. Maybe it's not as hot of a topic as I presumed.

    I did do another 5k this morning and enjoyed every minute of it. Also deadlifted yesterday and enjoyed that, too.

    Eat all the foods. Do all the training. Enjoy the ride.

    Tom
  • _Terrapin_
    _Terrapin_ Posts: 4,301 Member
    Go Navy. Beat Army.

    Does Navy have athletes? hehehehe. . . . . . May actually be a very good game this year. Good meaning Army wins by a comfortable margin.
  • SEAFOODMAN
    SEAFOODMAN Posts: 342
    N=1, so take it with a grain of sugar.

    I was curious to see what kind of cardiovascular shape I was in after 1.5 years of doing just strength training. So I jumped right in and did a 5k last Wednesday in 33:40. Did another one Saturday in 31:10. Another one Tuesday in 33:20. Decided to try a 10k today and did that in 68:35. Not great times, but I ran the whole distance and had more left in the tank. I am pleased with that.

    Here's where I'm going to draw a conclusion: Heavy strength training is an effective form of cardiovascular fitness.

    Here's where I torque the cardio only crowd: I bet a dime on a donut that someone who has only done cardio training cannot deadlift 2x their body weight in a week starting from a dead stop. I am going to contend that strength training alone is better overall for fitness than cardio alone.

    Here's where I might get back on track: Both are fun. I hate to say it, but that 10k was a real rush. I can't wait to try a 1/2 and then a full marathon. Very cool, indeed.

    Eat all the foods. Do all the exercise.

    Enjoy the ride,

    Tom


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