Fasted running

Liz_R_R

I do 6.5 miles on Tue & Thur at 5am fasted with no problems, but take regular water breaks along the way. Weekend long runs over 10 miles I do need to bring some raisins, dried cranberries, etc. for some fuel midway otherwise I feel the lag at the end (did a 12-mile fasted run and definitely felt pooped at the end). There's no way I can eat a meal before runs, but that's what works FOR ME. Figure out your optimum plan accordingly.

SassyCalyGirl

Lofteren-OP's entire post is about RUNNING.

perhaps YOU didn't read the entire post!

Running, yes. However, OP didn't state WHY he was running. I repeat:

"If your goals are centered around running then eat a healthy meal an hour or so before you run."

I was merely giving an option for each the possible reasons OP had for running. Is this difficult to understand?

WTF? Seriously? I think some remedial reading comp education is in order.

Lofteren is correct. If the runner's goals are centered around running, properly fueling for the requisite intensity sessions is required. How is that so hard to understand?

When this poster commented the OP should stop running and start lifting. Comments to follow indicate that OP is not interested in lifting but was instead asking about fasted running. .

Somehow that point was clearly missed. So the difficulty in understanding lies elsewhere.

gobonas99

If I'm doing a straight run (and not a tri) that is over an hour, I can't eat anything heavier than a banana before I run (and that needs to be at least 30 minutes before, preferably an hour). I don't eat anything before my run if it is under an hour.

For runs over an hour (or tris), I find my stomach actually prefers liquid fuel vs anything solid (although I can do stuff like Clif Shot Blocks or Gu Chomps on the bike). I've found my best fueling to be Heed dissolved in water...or even full calorie Powerade or Gatorade - on the bike, one water bottle has Heed, the other plain water...on runs, I'll carry Heed in my hydration pack, and grab plain water at water stops (I plan my long training runs to make at least 1 pass by my house and will leave a bottle of plain water near my car to take a couple of swigs when I go past the house). I'll also use salt tabs before long runs/rides (especially in hot weather).

_Waffle_

Your body can easily handle 2 hours of fasted running. I do it all the time. My typical morning runs are 6 - 8 miles. They're always done in a fasted state. If it's going to be much over 10 miles I might have a banana or something small before and I'll carry a gel with me just in case I need a mental pick me up.

I've done 16 mile runs without eating breakfast and nothing more than a cup of cold coffee before I started. I felt fine. Honestly the temperature outside affects my run more than what I ate before I ran.

_Waffle_

Am I doing myself any harm working out after not eating for 8+ hours? Should I keep trying to eat something and just power through the puke?

No, actually you're training your body to more easily convert fat to fuel. Your body won't start sucking up your precious muscle gains either. That's a myth.

Stoshew71

OK! Here is my skinny on fasted and unfasted running.

First some fueling tips if you do decide to eat before running.

Try different things. Different people react to different foods differently. You want to experiment in training runs so you know what works and doesn't work as you prepare for races. When you find something that works, you gonna want to replicate that before a race. This includes your day before pre-race meal.

Eating too many calories before a run can lock up your stomach pretty bad and cause discomfort. As you run, blood is being diverted to the areas that require oxygen and liver glycogen and fat absorption during your run. This blood is diverted away from other functions such as digestion. I go by Runner's World Big Book of Marathon and HM Training. 600 calories approx 3 hours before a big run in simple carbs or 200 cals 1 hour before. As you are running, 100 cals 30 minutes into the run and 45 minutes thereafter.

Why fuel up as you are running? As your body uses the anaerobic system (burning fuel without the presense of oxygen) you will be burning up your internal carb stores (glycogen). You have a limited supply. Different people have different levels and it depends how intense you run, but for most experienced runners, they should be able to run 15-20 miles and even beyond without worry of bonking (clearing out their glycogen supply). Running way beyond your aerobic threshold or poor training may cause you to bonk much sooner. The idea is to supplement the amount of glycogen you use up as you run but not replace it all together during the run. If you bonk too fast, then you are running faster than you should for your goal distance.

If you run at a pace that is below your aerobic threshold (burning fuel in the presense of oxygen) then your fuel supply relies more on your internal fat storage as opposed to glycogen. Your body (in comparison to gycogen) has a virtual endless supply of fat to fuel long term activity.

So this leads us into training and especially fasted training.

If you have long steady training runs that you rely on your aerobic system, your body will begin to learn to rely more on fat burning as opposed to glycogen burning. Training fasted during these runs will slowly deplete your glycogen and will stimulate growth in this area. In other words, your body will soon learn to store more glycogen for future runs. As you sleep, your body begins to use up and lower your blood sugar. When your blood sugar goes below a certain point, it may either use fat or glycogen to fuel your bodies survival mechanisms as you sleep. If you train to rely on fat burning, your body will burn less glycogen but it will burn some glycogen none the less. So unless you eat something in the morning before you run, you will have diminished glycogen stores.

This could be a good thing tho if you don't mind diminished performace in trade for stimulating growth.
At a certain point, your body will experience diminished returns and poor performance will outweigh the benefits of stimulating the growth of glycogen storage. But in the beginning of the training season, the diminished supply of blood sugar and glycogen during fasted runs will take some getting used to as your body learns to power from your fat storage and aerobic system.

SonicDeathMonkey80

Just eat a banana and go. You might feel hungry, but you're not gonna die. One could theoretically go an entire marathon on a banana, just sayin.

Azdak

I run in the morning before eating, I just don't do well with food in my stomach.. Glass of OJ is about all I have.
For long runs, anything from 8 miles and on, I use GU chomps for fuel.

I have a high protein snack after my run.

Just to be clear: drinking OJ before a run is "eating". It can be a good way for some people to "eat" before exercise.

Azdak

OK! Here is my skinny on fasted and unfasted running.

First some fueling tips if you do decide to eat before running.

Try different things. Different people react to different foods differently. You want to experiment in training runs so you know what works and doesn't work as you prepare for races. When you find something that works, you gonna want to replicate that before a race. This includes your day before pre-race meal.

Eating too many calories before a run can lock up your stomach pretty bad and cause discomfort. As you run, blood is being diverted to the areas that require oxygen and liver glycogen and fat absorption during your run. This blood is diverted away from other functions such as digestion. I go by Runner's World Big Book of Marathon and HM Training. 600 calories approx 3 hours before a big run in simple carbs or 200 cals 1 hour before. As you are running, 100 cals 30 minutes into the run and 45 minutes thereafter.

Why fuel up as you are running? As your body uses the anaerobic system (burning fuel without the presense of oxygen) you will be burning up your internal carb stores (glycogen). You have a limited supply. Different people have different levels and it depends how intense you run, but for most experienced runners, they should be able to run 15-20 miles and even beyond without worry of bonking (clearing out their glycogen supply). Running way beyond your aerobic threshold or poor training may cause you to bonk much sooner. The idea is to supplement the amount of glycogen you use up as you run but not replace it all together during the run. If you bonk too fast, then you are running faster than you should for your goal distance.

If you run at a pace that is below your aerobic threshold (burning fuel in the presense of oxygen) then your fuel supply relies more on your internal fat storage as opposed to glycogen. Your body (in comparison to gycogen) has a virtual endless supply of fat to fuel long term activity.

So this leads us into training and especially fasted training.

If you have long steady training runs that you rely on your aerobic system, your body will begin to learn to rely more on fat burning as opposed to glycogen burning. Training fasted during these runs will slowly deplete your glycogen and will stimulate growth in this area. In other words, your body will soon learn to store more glycogen for future runs. As you sleep, your body begins to use up and lower your blood sugar. When your blood sugar goes below a certain point, it may either use fat or glycogen to fuel your bodies survival mechanisms as you sleep. If you train to rely on fat burning, your body will burn less glycogen but it will burn some glycogen none the less. So unless you eat something in the morning before you run, you will have diminished glycogen stores.

This could be a good thing tho if you don't mind diminished performace in trade for stimulating growth.
At a certain point, your body will experience diminished returns and poor performance will outweigh the benefits of stimulating the growth of glycogen storage. But in the beginning of the training season, the diminished supply of blood sugar and glycogen during fasted runs will take some getting used to as your body learns to power from your fat storage and aerobic system.

If fasted running causes the body to learn to store more glycogen, it will become increasingly difficult to do fasted running, n'est-ce pas? ????

KeithAngilly

Just eat a banana and go. You might feel hungry, but you're not gonna die. One could theoretically go an entire marathon on a banana, just sayin.

this..for very long runs, you can bring along a few gels or your favorite running fuel.

also, for a reduced noise level, I would recommend you check out the long distance running group..

JenniDaisy

Just eat a banana and go. You might feel hungry, but you're not gonna die. One could theoretically go an entire marathon on a banana, just sayin.

I'm saying the opposite, I don't get hungry before and if I eat anything, even a banana, I hurl.

SassyCalyGirl

I run in the morning before eating, I just don't do well with food in my stomach.. Glass of OJ is about all I have.
For long runs, anything from 8 miles and on, I use GU chomps for fuel.

I have a high protein snack after my run.

Just to be clear: drinking OJ before a run is "eating". It can be a good way for some people to "eat" before exercise.

it works for me-I can't do solids. Perhaps I should have been more clear.

SassyCalyGirl

Just eat a banana and go. You might feel hungry, but you're not gonna die. One could theoretically go an entire marathon on a banana, just sayin.

I'm saying the opposite, I don't get hungry before and if I eat anything, even a banana, I hurl.

then don't eat-simple as that.

SonicDeathMonkey80

OK! Here is my skinny on fasted and unfasted running.

First some fueling tips if you do decide to eat before running.

Try different things. Different people react to different foods differently. You want to experiment in training runs so you know what works and doesn't work as you prepare for races. When you find something that works, you gonna want to replicate that before a race. This includes your day before pre-race meal.

Eating too many calories before a run can lock up your stomach pretty bad and cause discomfort. As you run, blood is being diverted to the areas that require oxygen and liver glycogen and fat absorption during your run. This blood is diverted away from other functions such as digestion. I go by Runner's World Big Book of Marathon and HM Training. 600 calories approx 3 hours before a big run in simple carbs or 200 cals 1 hour before. As you are running, 100 cals 30 minutes into the run and 45 minutes thereafter.

Why fuel up as you are running? As your body uses the anaerobic system (burning fuel without the presense of oxygen) you will be burning up your internal carb stores (glycogen). You have a limited supply. Different people have different levels and it depends how intense you run, but for most experienced runners, they should be able to run 15-20 miles and even beyond without worry of bonking (clearing out their glycogen supply). Running way beyond your aerobic threshold or poor training may cause you to bonk much sooner. The idea is to supplement the amount of glycogen you use up as you run but not replace it all together during the run. If you bonk too fast, then you are running faster than you should for your goal distance.

If you run at a pace that is below your aerobic threshold (burning fuel in the presense of oxygen) then your fuel supply relies more on your internal fat storage as opposed to glycogen. Your body (in comparison to gycogen) has a virtual endless supply of fat to fuel long term activity.

So this leads us into training and especially fasted training.

If you have long steady training runs that you rely on your aerobic system, your body will begin to learn to rely more on fat burning as opposed to glycogen burning. Training fasted during these runs will slowly deplete your glycogen and will stimulate growth in this area. In other words, your body will soon learn to store more glycogen for future runs. As you sleep, your body begins to use up and lower your blood sugar. When your blood sugar goes below a certain point, it may either use fat or glycogen to fuel your bodies survival mechanisms as you sleep. If you train to rely on fat burning, your body will burn less glycogen but it will burn some glycogen none the less. So unless you eat something in the morning before you run, you will have diminished glycogen stores.

This could be a good thing tho if you don't mind diminished performace in trade for stimulating growth.
At a certain point, your body will experience diminished returns and poor performance will outweigh the benefits of stimulating the growth of glycogen storage. But in the beginning of the training season, the diminished supply of blood sugar and glycogen during fasted runs will take some getting used to as your body learns to power from your fat storage and aerobic system.

If fasted running causes the body to learn to store more glycogen, it will become increasingly difficult to do fasted running, n'est-ce pas? ????

Fasted running will train the body to run while burning fat for energy. It's a necessary strategy for the marathon distance and/or anything over 2ish hours, height/weight varying of course. If you train on a larger meal or insist on taking gels on 3 mile training runs, your body will use that as fuel since it is easier to burn. When it's gone though... BOOM.

Stoshew71

If fasted running causes the body to learn to store more glycogen, it will become increasingly difficult to do fasted running, n'est-ce pas? ????

At a certain point, your body really won't store more glycogen. Thus I said you will eventually experience diminished returns. In other words, you get to a certain point in your training where your body stops trying to store even more glycogen and your run just suffers from it in terms of performance. So you might as well fuel or carb up before a run to get better performance because your body won't learn much more from a fasted run.

It is called "Training low and racing high"

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/lab-report-fuel-management?page=single

SonicDeathMonkey80

Just eat a banana and go. You might feel hungry, but you're not gonna die. One could theoretically go an entire marathon on a banana, just sayin.

I'm saying the opposite, I don't get hungry before and if I eat anything, even a banana, I hurl.

I'm not seeing the problem

However, I thought you said something about eating eggs or a protein shake. Those are slow digesting and would absolutely give you stomach crap on a run. On my weekday runs, I go around 11am, so yes I do eat before. Usually 3 eggs at 7, and a banana at 830 and oatmeal at 9-930.

JenniDaisy

Just eat a banana and go. You might feel hungry, but you're not gonna die. One could theoretically go an entire marathon on a banana, just sayin.

I'm saying the opposite, I don't get hungry before and if I eat anything, even a banana, I hurl.

I'm not seeing the problem

However, I thought you said something about eating eggs or a protein shake. Those are slow digesting and would absolutely give you stomach crap on a run. On my weekday runs, I go around 11am, so yes I do eat before. Usually 3 eggs at 7, and a banana at 830 and oatmeal at 9-930.

I was just wondering if I'm making things harder for myself by not eating, maybe my performance would be better if I ate? maybe I'm supposed to eat and I'm a freak of nature for getting an upset stomach?

Stoshew71

Just eat a banana and go. You might feel hungry, but you're not gonna die. One could theoretically go an entire marathon on a banana, just sayin.

I'm saying the opposite, I don't get hungry before and if I eat anything, even a banana, I hurl.

I'm not seeing the problem

However, I thought you said something about eating eggs or a protein shake. Those are slow digesting and would absolutely give you stomach crap on a run. On my weekday runs, I go around 11am, so yes I do eat before. Usually 3 eggs at 7, and a banana at 830 and oatmeal at 9-930.

Not only slow digestion, the protein won't really act as a fuel which is what you need more.

Although protein is important to maintain muscle mass and you need some of this after a long run, it really won't help you as much before a long run. Fast carbs is what you really need the most.

blackcoffeeandcherrypie

It's worth bearing in mind that our physical responses were designed to guide us many millions of years before we had mfp, nutritionists or protein shakes. Listen to your body and if it feels fine then it most likely is fine.

If you are very keen to get some protein in before running, a 250ml glass of milk has 10g of protein and won't be too heavy on the stomach. You can even mix it in with coffee to make a latte if you like a coffee before you go out.

CarsonRuns

I'm an experiment of one, but I do ALL of my running in a fasted state. I've done 90+ mile weeks with 22 mile long runs in a fasted state. I didn't bonk, lose muscle mass or anything else. It works just fine for me. You'll just have to try it and see.