Calories in/calories out yes what if....?

JoRocka

Even though you are right 90% of the time, the OP has a medical problem which overly complicates things with this theory. Once you throw medical and hormonal issues into the mix, your CICO theory goes out the window or at least needs to be tweaked.

If the CICO equation worked 100% of the time, why are there so many threads about people over exercising and not losing weight or recommendations to up the calories...because of the body's complex coping mechanisms (i.e. cortisol). In a diabetic's case the insulin is throwing the monkey wrench into things. Insulin overproduction and resistance make breaking down sugars into a complex issue so they need to either take in less sugars or eat healthier sugars so that the body has to work for it to utilize and break down the sugars. The key is to utilize most of the sugars that are taken into the body so that the insulin doesn't get spiked in order to get rid of the excess available blood sugars (again, this would go to another response about taking a look at Glycemic Index of foods). This is where the working out is beneficial. Weight training (developing lean muscle mass) is key so that at rest you will still utilize more of the available sugars without being active.

Bottom line, this OP should treat him or herself like a diabetic for the sake of losing and maintaining weight whereas most people would not need to.

I was under the assumption at this point we were talking more generic levels.

medical conditions mean you need to be more attentive to your macros- but you still need to eat at a deficit.

baconslave

TL;DR for the thread:

If you are normal and have no medical issues, for weight loss, all that is required is a calorie deficit.

If you are not normal due to insulin issues (like pre-diabetes, diabetes, and/or insulin resistance) calorie deficit is only part of the issue and solution. Macros need to be adjusted, like reducing carbohydrates, due to the insulin response they cause.

Normal weight loss = calorie deficit
Weight loss with medical issue = macros + calorie deficit

There ya go. I fixed MFP.
You're welcome.

ImpracticalGirl

A calorie is not a calorie. All calories are not created equal. Big difference between a calorie from a cookie and a calorie from saturated fat or protein.

Only in the same universe where a 1 mile run is shorter than a 1 mile walk.

Now back to Earth, and the laws of thermodynamics ...:ohwell:

wkwebby

TL;DR for the thread:

If you are normal and have no medical issues, for weight loss, all that is required is a calorie deficit.

If you are not normal due to insulin issues (like pre-diabetes, diabetes, and/or insulin resistance) calorie deficit is only part of the issue and solution. Macros need to be adjusted, like reducing carbohydrates, due to the insulin response they cause.

Normal weight loss = calorie deficit
Weight loss with medical issue = macros + calorie deficit

There ya go. I fixed MFP.
You're welcome.

Nice! Totally agreed, you fixed it! :laugh:

JoRocka

TL;DR for the thread:

If you are normal and have no medical issues, for weight loss, all that is required is a calorie deficit.

If you are not normal due to insulin issues (like pre-diabetes, diabetes, and/or insulin resistance) calorie deficit is only part of the issue and solution. Macros need to be adjusted, like reducing carbohydrates, due to the insulin response they cause.

Normal weight loss = calorie deficit
Weight loss with medical issue = macros + calorie deficit

There ya go. I fixed MFP.
You're welcome.

Nice! Totally agreed, you fixed it! :laugh:

indeed- that is a great TL;DR summary!!!

rprussell2004

TL;DR for the thread:

If you are normal and have no medical issues, for weight loss, all that is required is a calorie deficit.

If you are not normal due to insulin issues (like pre-diabetes, diabetes, and/or insulin resistance) calorie deficit is only part of the issue and solution. Macros need to be adjusted, like reducing carbohydrates, due to the insulin response they cause.

Normal weight loss = calorie deficit
Weight loss with medical issue = macros + calorie deficit

There ya go. I fixed MFP.
You're welcome.

DEEP BREATH.

Now, repeat after me:

NOT MY CIRCUS.

NOT MY MONKEYS.

baconslave

TL;DR for the thread:

If you are normal and have no medical issues, for weight loss, all that is required is a calorie deficit.

If you are not normal due to insulin issues (like pre-diabetes, diabetes, and/or insulin resistance) calorie deficit is only part of the issue and solution. Macros need to be adjusted, like reducing carbohydrates, due to the insulin response they cause.

Normal weight loss = calorie deficit
Weight loss with medical issue = macros + calorie deficit

There ya go. I fixed MFP.
You're welcome.

DEEP BREATH.

Now, repeat after me:

NOT MY CIRCUS.

NOT MY MONKEYS.

:laugh:

likitisplit

TL;DR for the thread:

If you are normal and have no medical issues, for weight loss, all that is required is a calorie deficit.

If you are not normal due to insulin issues (like pre-diabetes, diabetes, and/or insulin resistance) calorie deficit is only part of the issue and solution. Macros need to be adjusted, like reducing carbohydrates, due to the insulin response they cause.

Normal weight loss = calorie deficit
Weight loss with medical issue = macros + calorie deficit

There ya go. I fixed MFP.
You're welcome.

DEEP BREATH.

Now, repeat after me:

NOT MY CIRCUS.

NOT MY MONKEYS.

:laugh:

You laugh now...

JoRocka

NOT MY CIRCUS.

NOT MY MONKEYS.

I use this quote almost daily due to the work I do with FEMA.

it's just so ridiculous- but it's true- sometimes you just gotta realize it isn't your thing.

JoRocka

Double tap.

leodru

Your using mfp so you should follow their guidelines - in your setup it establishes how much protein, carbs and fat you should intake. You can edit those criteria if you are being guided by nutritionist but otherwise i would suggest you stick to the guidelines that the tool you chose recommended.

Strongly Disagree!! It is a place to start, but the developers of MFP have to follow the RDA's that our "fine" government puts out. There is all kinds of data out there showing that the RDA's are WRONG!!!!

Below is a link to a lots of good posts on to read. It is part of a group called EAT, TRAIN, PROGRESS run by two great people that know their stuff.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/833026-important-posts-to-read

I strong disagree with you - MFP does not have to follow anyone's recommended guideline - we don't all live in a communist country. Its creator lives in California and does NOT have to recommend anything to anyone - in the same way the Atkins apps, Paleo apps all don't subscribe to anything the government puts out. So my question would be why choose this app if you disagree with its recommendations? Go use another app!

Unknown

This content has been removed.

paperpudding

A calorie is not a calorie. All calories are not created equal. Big difference between a calorie from a cookie and a calorie from saturated fat or protein.

I think it is more accurate to say that different food items have different bioavailability of calories which aren't really well reflected in current labelling.

So, while a cookie may be listed as having the same calories as a piece of fruit it is likely that more of the calories from the cookie will be absorbed (and therefore increase the likelihood of fat storage as calories are more likely exceed energy expenditure) than from the fruit. Therefore a "2000" calorie diet made up of fresh veg and fruit actually delivers less calories than a "2000" calorie diet made up of processed / heavily refined foods and therefore less chance of weight gain.

I'm sorry, why would the human body absorb more calories from the cookie than the fruit? Could you explain the science behind that claim?

To the OP: If you have insulin issues and are Metformin, you may find keeping your carbs lower or following a low carb diet to be beneficial, however you will still need a calorie deficit for weight loss to occur. There are a few groups on this site for low carb, do a search of the groups to find them. They'll be able to give you information on low carb and insulin issues and how to do a low carb diet properly if you think that would be beneficial to you. However, if you are losing steadily with the Metformin, going low carb probably wouldn't be necessary.

.

Forget calories. There is a much bigger picture. The average cookie would be higher glycemic than most fruit. Plus, that cookie most likely contains a whole bunch of other garbage if it's sold in a package. Fruits at least contain micronutrients and antioxidants. But loading on fruits isn't the answer either b/c they are also relatively higher glycemic compared to veggies, meats and fats.

Diabetes is NOT a static condition. If on an oral medication like Metformin, it actually can be reversed by reducing/eliminating insulin spikes to prevent further progression of insulin resistance. If strength training is in the picture, insulin sensitivity increases. That's correct, diabetes can be reversed with a primal diet/lifestyle of the effect on insulin. If the standard "eat whatever you want in moderation" American health mantra is employed, the same glycemic scenario exists, and there is invariable progression down the spectrum of diabetes where the patient becomes insulin dependent. It can be too late by then. It is often not too late if the patient is only dependent on oral medications.

Um, yeah, ok, the person I quoted claims that the human body absorbs more calories from cookies than fruits and vegetables, and that 2000 calories of both foods would somehow result in the body absorbing fewer than 2000 calories from the fruits and vegetables. There was no mention of diabetes in that post, and when it comes to weight loss, calories are what really matters, so I'm going to wait this one out and see if the person comes back with an explanation for their claim.

And you're right, I didn't read all of the posts on the thread... no time.

and yet you found time to write several lengthy replies :indifferent:

Perhaps time would be better spent reading a bit more and writing a bit less - that way you can make sure what you write is actually relevant. :flowerforyou: