Paying attention vs. paying compliments

Lazyboy09

God help me....

... if someone was constantly nitpicking in an uninformed way...

....if there was someone who would carry on telling me all the old wives tales that float around this forum such as "more than 30 mins of cardio is dangerous" and "training your obliques will make you look fat" and other such nonsense....

I didn't notice in the discussion that these were the kinds of things that was happening, certainly I agree with these points. I'm pretty sure that no one will or has disagreed with this in this thread (I mean really, who would) but I don't think this was the focus of the post at all.

It seemed to me that this post was against giving blind compliments and you lashed out against the OP and took it off on this tangent because you get hot about people telling you to eat your exercise calories* (and I don't know why people would be telling you this since you're obviously having success with your current plan).

In conclusion, I think everyone** here would agree that no one likes people constantly nitpicking in an uninformed way and no one likes people to offer bad advice.

Do you have any thoughts to add about blindly complimenting people when they are obviously acting counter productive to their own individual weight loss? It seems natural in a social environment that people would be willing to share the secrets of their success with people that are not having success left to their own devices rather than just telling them "good job!" every time they make a status update.


*not to inflame you further if I'm misinterpreting what's happening here, my comments are not meant as an attack
**yes, I'm taking a gamble and speaking for everyone on this point even though it's possible that some people might not agree because it would give them a reason to have an argument, and I've been accused of liking to argue just for the sake of it

backinthenines

Do you have any thoughts to add about blindly complimenting people when they are obviously acting counter productive to their own individual weight loss? It seems natural in a social environment that people would be willing to share the secrets of their success with people that are not having success left to their own devices rather than just telling them "good job!" every time they make a status update.
*not to inflame you further if I'm misinterpreting what's happening here, my comments are not meant as an attack
**yes, I'm taking a gamble and speaking for everyone on this point even though it's possible that some people might not agree because it would give them a reason to have an argument, and I've been accused of liking to argue just for the sake of it

LOL You're welcome and I'm not 'inflamed'. :flowerforyou:

You're absolutely right and I think if I remember right I did say that "well done you" comments, when someone is doing something counterproductive or even dangerous is of course not helpful.

I think in terms of how to support people sensitively and effectively, I think I'm going back to what I said previously about chosing the right way to communicate, and sometimes the public wall may not be the right way? There might be cases where a helpful suggestion may be better received when it comes via a personal message rather than the public wall for all to see.

I think the one thing people need to bear in mind is that although you're "friends" with people, they are essentially strangers, and you're always treading a fine line between patronising someone quite knowledgeable, or taking the wind out of a motivated newbie, or upsetting someone who just had a bad day etc etc.

I am very careful telling people you must do this or you mustn't do that, because it's different stroke for different folks. Where I give my opinion on a thread (for example advice on how to chose a good running shoe etc) I make sure I know my stuff and give a decent explanation. The running shoe question is a great example actually cos it happens a lot. Someone comes and asks "I am running more often and need to find good running shoes, what do I do?" and someone comes along and say "buy Asics Kayanos they're great"... Well that's probably well intentioned advice, but if that person is a neutral, non-pronating runner s/he he may spend $90 on a pair of shoes that within a matter of month will get them injured because it's not suitable to their gait.

Of course you can argue it's the thread starter's responsibility to assess which advice might be more valid, but people are sometimes not knowledgeable and take people's word as gospel.

SarahRuth♥

I don't think that anyone should really have expectations of anyone on their friends list. Let me explain why...

As others have said, everyone uses the site differently. Personally, it makes me happy when others comment on my diary. It keeps me motivated, helps me try and remember to be accountable, and helps keep me coming back to the site. I try to return the favor when I can. When I consider the comments left, I put more weight on the intentions of the person leaving the comment than I do on what they actually said.

I don't eat *right*. At least not yet. I make small changes where and when I can. I can't, for a number of reasons, do it all at once. So if someone were to analyze my diary they would probably have a whole lot to say about it. And, frankly, I wouldn't want to be constantly in a position of feeling like I have to explain myself. I would appreciate the attempt once or twice, because the person has good intentions, but beyond that I would just get annoyed and frustrated. I know what I need to do, I just can't do it right now... so I don't want people harping on me for it.

Next, I don't necessarily log everything. I log throughout the day and when I get to the end if I have some calories left I might decide to have a snack after I have already *completed* my diary. So, while you might see that message pop up (and I'm not sure I have any control over that) and you might see that I was low on calories, you wont know if I decided to have something to make that up later. Sometimes I complete the entry to see what it tells me I'll weigh in five weeks... LOL. Another example, I don't log water. I drink a whole lot of water, and I know that I'm okay in that area, and it doesn't affect my calories, so I don't bother tracking it. I have had people mention that I should drink more water... I appreciate the intentions, but I easily drink 10-12 glasses a day, I just don't log it so they wouldn't know that.

Third, I do not expect everyone on my list to have the time to review the diary of everyone on their list. It's a little much to ask of random people you have met online and only communicate with via a fitness website. Most people here are not nutritionists or fitness expert's, so I take what everyone says with a grain of salt anyway. If someone says something I'm interested in, I will research further on my own and I appreciate the advice and good intentions, but it is NOT expected. I do not have the time to review everyone's diary. Sometimes I do it here and there, but I'm rarely even on the computer to do so. Most of my activity on this site is done from my phone. I'm typing this on my phone right now, and trust me... it's a pain in the behind!! I have actually felt guilty at times because I have some friends who are very active on this site and comment on everything and I feel bad that I miss a lot. I don't want or need the guilt. I log my food from my phone, I log my exercise from my phone, and sometimes I'll go as far as commenting on my news feed or forum threads like this, But my phone doesn't handle the community features of this site well yet, so that's not typical for me.

Basically, I think we should just accept the support and encouragement for what it is. It is being offered to you with the best of intentions and that is what is important.

Plus... I think that just the act of tracking your food and exercise and posting it for others to review deserves a pat on the back no matter what the diary itself says!

Riliye

I'm not sure there's much here to be said that hasn't been said already, but here's my two cents. I have my diary set to friends only for accountability purposes. I suck at self-motivating, so even knowing that the *potential* is there for other people to see if I give in to those horrible cravings and "fall off the wagon" is motivation in itself. By allowing my friends to see my diary I open myself to all sorts of different advice. Some of it may be good; some of it may be awful.

That being said, I generally follow a personal rule of mine when this happens -- if one person says it, and neither of the two of you are fitness/nutrition experts, their advice is mostly their word against yours. Do you know what you're doing? If so, good! Ignore it. Does what they say make sense? If you think so, look into it. If not...oh well. Now, should more than one person say the same thing...perhaps you should take a look at what you're doing...IF you're just kind of fumbling around in the dark like I am. Advice is just that -- advice, and even with so much fire on the site about exercise calories, I did some digging and decided my own opinion, which weighs more to me than that of some random friend (Though I love my friends...I just can't be as sure they took the time that I did).

But realistically, I think I agree with one of the previous posters who said they were on the fence about this issue. I would welcome advice, but at the same time if it was about something I was very knowledgeable about and contradicted that knowledge, I'd probably ignore it.

Just my two cents.

kittytrix

Very good post. I agree. In one of my posts to someone I made the comment that people should not congratulate people just because they lost weight. While that is a major component of this site, the more important one is to get healthy. I never meant to attack or offend, but I think it may have come across that way. I was more concerned about someone's health. After reaching out to that person, I feel my concerns were put to rest.

I think this is a great post.

Uplift each other but not blindly.

runningneo122

Thanks for covering my back, LazyBoy!! PresheateYa !!:bigsmile:

vixen325

yes I agree it is important to be honest and not just tell a person what they want to hear sometimes the truth isn't always pretty

smalltowngirl504

Good post, I enjoyed reading it....!!! and I agree -900 calories cannot be a good thing!

SarahRuth♥

Good post, I enjoyed reading it....!!! and I agree -900 calories cannot be a good thing!

I've eaten 941 calories today. With my exercise, my net calories is 704. I'm just not hungry. I thought about eating more to try and get in *enough* calories, but I'm just not hungry and I won't force myself to eat when I'm not hungry. Yesterday I was way hungry, and I went over. I just think that the number of calories a person eats per day isn't quite so clear cut as we're making it out to be here. Just a thought.

runningneo122

Sarah, it depends on what you're eating. If you're eating lots of protein and veggies then your calorie count might seem low for how full you feel. It is calories in vs. calories out, but the things to remember is your BMR and TDEE.

Your body needs food to function. Base Metabolic Rate is what your body needs to function with zero activity. Add in the activity level for your average day and you get what is needed to do your basic functions and move around. Add exercise and you need that much more to keep the body's energy level up. The calorie goal that MFP gives you every morning has your defecit figured in. 500 per day for each pound you want to lose in one week. It assumes that you won't exercise. When you tell it you did, it adds those cals to your daily goal.

I have read a few books on weight loss and they all say eat MORE to lose weight... the exer cals. All the people on here saying that it's being debated don't ever cite a reliable source if they cite a source at all. I defer to the people who have written books about it based on their experience training thousands of clients as a professional personal trainer and not someone who only says that it is a myth and can't back it up. If you want to read the book I swear by, here are the review links:

http://www.fitnesstipsforlife.com/burn-the-fat-feed-the-muscle-complete-review.html

http://www.burnthefatblog.com/archives/2009/12/cheating_on_your_diet.php

I reccomend you read these also:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/3047-700-calories-a-day-and-not-losing

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/10589-for-those-confused-or-questioning-eating-your-exercise-calo

The person in the OP was not at a "defecit" like we are discussing here, but this was a defecit BELOW TDEE. That is headed toward ketosis. Karen Carpenter died in her thirties from eating so little and exercising her butt off. The body needs energy and it will take it from wherever is closest and that means the internal organs and muscle tissue. As I stated before, I defer to the professionals.

SarahRuth♥

Sarah, it depends on what you're eating. If you're eating lots of protein and veggies then your calorie count might seem low for how full you feel. It is calories in vs. calories out, but the things to remember is your BMR and TDEE.

Your body needs food to function. Base Metabolic Rate is what your body needs to function with zero activity. Add in the activity level for your average day and you get what is needed to do your basic functions and move around. Add exercise and you need that much more to keep the body's energy level up. The calorie goal that MFP gives you every morning has your defecit figured in. 500 per day for each pound you want to lose in one week. It assumes that you won't exercise. When you tell it you did, it adds those cals to your daily goal.

I have read a few books on weight loss and they all say eat MORE to lose weight... the exer cals. All the people on here saying that it's being debated don't ever cite a reliable source if they cite a source at all. I defer to the people who have written books about it based on their experience training thousands of clients as a professional personal trainer and not someone who only says that it is a myth and can't back it up. If you want to read the book I swear by, here are the review links:

http://www.fitnesstipsforlife.com/burn-the-fat-feed-the-muscle-complete-review.html

http://www.burnthefatblog.com/archives/2009/12/cheating_on_your_diet.php

I reccomend you read these also:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/3047-700-calories-a-day-and-not-losing

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/10589-for-those-confused-or-questioning-eating-your-exercise-calo

The person in the OP was not at a "defecit" like we are discussing here, but this was a defecit BELOW TDEE. That is headed toward ketosis. Karen Carpenter died in her thirties from eating so little and exercising her butt off. The body needs energy and it will take it from wherever is closest and that means the internal organs and muscle tissue. As I stated before, I defer to the professionals.

I actually understand most of that. I get that my body needs nutrition to keep going... and I don't starve myself. I just think we should listen more to our bodies signals rather than pushing it to do what we want it to. Like I said, yesterday I went over because I was crazy hungry. But today... I just wasn't hungry. I'm not going to force myself to eat when I'm not hungry because your research, or your professionals, tell you that I should have eaten more. Those 941 calories were enough for me today, based on what my body is actually telling me. Tomorrow may be a different story.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE food. Seriously. I used to eat just because I wanted to, no matter if I was hungry or not. I'm trying to learn to listen to the signals my body sends me. I believe that mother nature trumps "professionals". The professionals give me a basic guideline, that's about it...

runningneo122

I agree with you about listening to your body. I only eat as much as I need to feel full. Some days I'm 300 cals under but most days I'm within 30 - 40 of the goal. I have never said FORCE yourself to eat.

I believe that the person in the OP may not be being honest about the food and exercise in their log.

Self deception is a killer....literally. I've had friends think that their bad habits wouldn't kill them and they turned out to be wrong.

My concern is that people are self-defeating with their self-DIS-honesty.

This started out about blind praise and turned into the eat or don't eat exercise cals topic, yet again.

Lazyboy09

I think the thing to remember here is that there are guidelines that are to be thought of as best practices and these are what people such as Neo share with others because it is the best advice you can give to the majority of people that have a reason to be on this site.

There will always be outliers and anomalies, people that don't follow the guidelines and yet are able to produce great results working with their own biology, just as there are people that smoke and drink heavily daily and live to be 100 or more. It doesn't mean that smoking and drinking heavily daily is something that would be beneficial to most people, but for some it doesn't seem to be detrimental.

If your intake is well below what the majority of your peers uses and it works for you then consider yourself lucky for finding the solution that works best for your own goals. If your intake is well below what the majority of your peers uses and you aren't seeing results, then maybe you could give increasing it a shot, even if eating more calories does seem counter-intuitive to your goals at first.

SarahRuth♥

This started out about blind praise and turned into the eat or don't eat exercise cals topic, yet again.

Sorry for going off topic.

runningneo122

This started out about blind praise and turned into the eat or don't eat exercise cals topic, yet again.

Sorry for going off topic.

No need to apologize. Backinthenines was the one on that one. Good postings to read in this thread, though. Thanks everybody.