No Meat.....No Problem

lhague

I believe you need to read more and educate yourself a little more about the claims or vits, iron, brain food, etc.

And please educate yourself on crop growth. I live in the middle east where the vegetables and fruits are the most delicious I have eaten anywhere in the world. Saudi Arabia does not have fertile land, but what they do have is kilometers upon kilometers of green houses, less pest, and lots of produce. And if there weren't enough land to sustain produce then how do you propose we feed the animals that graze that you eat?

2/3 of the worlds land used for agriculture is permanent pasture, filled with grass and shrubs (cellulose) which ruminants take and convert to muscle which feeds us. I've never seen a person munching on grass or shrubs. 60% of that pasture cannot be cultivated with crops. Lots of it is hilly or rocky and would be difficult or impossible to harvest crops from. That's great that there is plenty of greenhouses; I didn't say anything about vegetables being bad. of course they are great but won't be able to replace the high quality protein that we get from animal products.

Thanks. I have educated myself, I have been studying about livestock production for 4 years in college and before that as well.

Your education explains your biased ideas. There is plenty of research that would contradict what you have learned in college. Being college educated ++ I have learned that what I learned in college was a great baseline, but that's it, a baseline. What you learn outside of the tilted view of professors are other studies and facts that you were not taught.

Good luck to you.

soysos

I never said these traits are carnivorous, I said they are predatory. all scavengers from the common field mouse to a mountain gorilla are technically predators even if those animal proteins are less than 10% of there diet it would be very difficult for them to function without them. the same goes for us it is possible for us to get all we need without animals, but our bodies just aren't built for it as little as 5% coming from an animal source say eggs can make a huge difference.

the problem here is most americans have developed a meat based diet and this goes back to the original colonists. for most of the colonists this was beneficial caused them to be bigger and stronger than even 1 generation before, but they also spent most of there time doing hard labor. with the coming of the industrial revolution all that meat was no longer necessary, but old habits and all that. I'm trying to get back to a more old world type of diet. a grain based diet about 60-70% of what I eat another 20-30% vegetables and about 10-15% meat, I call it the rat diet.

KokomoJoe

I LOVE eggplant, but my family hates. What can I do?

Make Lentil soup? and enjoy the eggplant yourself.

jemmur

This thread ... made me crave turnip. Good, old-fashioned, mashed turnip and potatoes like Mom used to make.

Turnips (or neeps, if you're Scottish!) are an underappreciated vegetable. My lentil soup just wouldn't be right, without them!

As far as the OP and the original question goes, it might be worth googling for aubergine recipes too? Same thing

I have to admit that I don't cook with it very often but one of my favourite restaurants sticks big, round slices of it on a skewer (along with mushrooms, peppers, onion, courgettes, etc) and cooks it over a flame pit. Yum! I'm going to have a shot at recreating it, come BBQ season.

halobender

Your education explains your biased ideas. There is plenty of research that would contradict what you have learned in college. Being college educated ++ I have learned that what I learned in college was a great baseline, but that's it, a baseline. What you learn outside of the tilted view of professors are other studies and facts that you were not taught.

Good luck to you.

So is it because you're old you get to argue with someone without providing any sort of information whatsoever to back up your claims? I won't claim to know a ton about this topic in particular, but everything I've ever read or studied has agreed with SkierElle's assertions.

Aside from that, when people talk about land not being able to produce crops, they mean without the aid of greenhouses.

Seriously, older people are the worst about this kind of crap. Simply saying "you're wrong and need to educate yourself" is the lamest cop out there is. Why don't you just say something more accurate to your sentiments, like "I disagree with you, but I don't want to actually go through the work of proving my position at all, I'm just going to say that you're wrong and try to attack you personally by calling you uneducated."

lhague

Your education explains your biased ideas. There is plenty of research that would contradict what you have learned in college. Being college educated ++ I have learned that what I learned in college was a great baseline, but that's it, a baseline. What you learn outside of the tilted view of professors are other studies and facts that you were not taught.

Good luck to you.

So is it because you're old you get to argue with someone without providing any sort of information whatsoever to back up your claims? I won't claim to know a ton about this topic in particular, but everything I've ever read or studied has agreed with SkierElle's assertions.

Aside from that, when people talk about land not being able to produce crops, they mean without the aid of greenhouses.

Seriously, older people are the worst about this kind of crap. Simply saying "you're wrong and need to educate yourself" is the lamest cop out there is. Why don't you just say something more accurate to your sentiments, like "I disagree with you, but I don't want to actually go through the work of proving my position at all, I'm just going to say that you're wrong and try to attack you personally by calling you uneducated."

Seriously, you are calling me uneducated. I do not have to proclaim my education to someone who from the start said they don't know anything about this subject.

Let's start from the beginning. Her much earlier post was one of pure head in the clouds. She claimed how people could be more sustained from eating meat due to there not being enough land to produce food. If there is not enough land to produce food then where do you suppose we put the cattle to graze. And my dear, yes greenhouses have everything to do with land. I will be glad to email you all of my source and anything else to make you shutup and stop being rude. You need to find a better hobby than poking your nose into a place that you know nothing about.

And....attacking someone about their age, shame on you, how narrow minded you are.

halobender

The hyperbole is excellent tonight. Mmmm.

lhague

The hyperbole is excellent tonight. Mmmm.

seriously, find a hobby, you just want to annoy. This is done, you are sad. bye bye little man

halobender

seriously, find a hobby, you just want to annoy. This is done, you are sad. bye bye little man

Hmmm. If I just wanted to annoy, I would simply argue without providing proof or evidence of anything, or even trying to incite debate.

Personally, I think that being 51 and only being able to say "I'm more educated than you, so I'm right" is more sad than anything. I don't want to prolong an obnoxious argument, I'm just saying that if you're going to tell someone they're wrong, at least prove it.

Anyway, this is my hobby:


Wait ... I think we share the same hobby. Baseless extrapolation.

lhague

You are rude. And I never said I was more right, that I was smarter or more educated. Not once did I say any of those things. Your other post constantly say 99% people this, 99% that, 50% this, 75% that. Not in one of your post have you given any website or information to back up your claims.

Your extrapolation was hurtful, if that is what you set out to do, then mission accomplished. I have shared it with others.

And note: I have been married once, we just celebrated 30 years. I can only hope the same for you.

freerange

Oh - I just am amazed at how many people (both here and in real life) give advice based on nothing but what they heard in passing on a TV show 8 years ago (or whatever the source). There are some really excellent studies and books put together with sources sited that we can all easily research with the internet now.

Personally, what I do doesn't matter - although I've found something that works for my goals, what I'm saying to (not just you - but all) people is - do the research! Read up on this stuff!

Not only is reading up on it interesting and helpful, but it keeps you motivated. It's hard to jam a doughnut in your mouth when you're half way through reading "Good Calories, Bad Calories".

I have clients all over that make declarations like, "I'm not going to eat red meat anymore!" based on just that they think it's healthy. However, through 3 years of study, I can't seem to find a single current study that shows it is bad. Some of my friends are vegan because they fundamentally don't believe in eating animal product - I applaud them for that choice! That's fantastic!

My advice to my personal training clients is always the same. Before you swear off red meat/chicken/fat/protein or whatever they claim is bad for you - swear off missing a day of exercise and swear off that cheat cookie. It'll go a lot further!

Some reading examples that I like - I'm sure other people will disagree - again, I'm not saying do each one - Just to learn about it!

The Anabolic Diet
The Primal Blueprint
The New Atkins Revolution - which has a vegetarian section in each chapter now
Protein Power
The Zone Diet (33/33/33)
Good Calories, Bad Calories

All good stuff and worth the read.

Steve
KnightFit.com

You might want to read the China Study http://www.thechinastudy.com/ if you have not seen it in your 3 years of study
<Summary from website below, just for reference>...
"In this project, however, I uncovered a dark secret. Children who ate the highest protein diets were the ones most likely to get liver cancer..." He began to review other reports from around the world that reflected the findings of his research in the Philippines.

Although it was "heretical to say that protein wasn't healthy," he started an in-depth study into the role of nutrition, especially protein, in the cause of cancer.

The research project culminated in a 20-year partnership of Cornell University, Oxford University, and the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine, a survey of diseases and lifestyle factors in rural China and Taiwan. More commonly known as the China Study, "this project eventually produced more than 8000 statistically significant associations between various dietary factors and disease."

The findings? "People who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease ... People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and tended to avoid chronic disease. These results could not be ignored," said Dr. Campbell.

You might want to read this,

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

freerange

Your education explains your biased ideas. There is plenty of research that would contradict what you have learned in college. Being college educated ++ I have learned that what I learned in college was a great baseline, but that's it, a baseline. What you learn outside of the tilted view of professors are other studies and facts that you were not taught.

Good luck to you.

So is it because you're old you get to argue with someone without providing any sort of information whatsoever to back up your claims? I won't claim to know a ton about this topic in particular, but everything I've ever read or studied has agreed with SkierElle's assertions.

Aside from that, when people talk about land not being able to produce crops, they mean without the aid of greenhouses.

Seriously, older people are the worst about this kind of crap. Simply saying "you're wrong and need to educate yourself" is the lamest cop out there is. Why don't you just say something more accurate to your sentiments, like "I disagree with you, but I don't want to actually go through the work of proving my position at all, I'm just going to say that you're wrong and try to attack you personally by calling you uneducated."

Seriously, you are calling me uneducated. I do not have to proclaim my education to someone who from the start said they don't know anything about this subject.

Let's start from the beginning. Her much earlier post was one of pure head in the clouds. She claimed how people could be more sustained from eating meat due to there not being enough land to produce food. If there is not enough land to produce food then where do you suppose we put the cattle to graze. And my dear, yes greenhouses have everything to do with land. I will be glad to email you all of my source and anything else to make you shutup and stop being rude. You need to find a better hobby than poking your nose into a place that you know nothing about.

And....attacking someone about their age, shame on you, how narrow minded you are.

and you might want to read this

http://lierrekeith.com/vegmyth.htm

SkierElle

http://lierrekeith.com/vegmyth.htm

Thanks for the url, that looks really interesting! I'll have to check it out.

My main point was that most of the pasture on the earth's surface cannot be used for crop production because it is rocky, hilly, desert, or otherwise infertile. It, however, will grow grass or shrubs that animals can consume. In my opinion, it is best to match food production, whether it be crop or animal, to the environment and what is on it naturally, without having to manipulate it too much to make it fit our needs. Obviously that means that different parts of the world will be consuming very different diets and different fat/prot/carb ratios, and that not everyone is ever going to agree what we should consume.

And thanks for the concern that my education was biased, but I have done plenty of research on the "other side" of things because I don't take what my professors to tell me to be the ultimate truth. Part of getting educated means being able to question what you're taught and told and how valuable and reliable your sources are, and I feel I have learned how to do that.

rosebarnalice

I'm not a vegetarian, but I go meatless at least two days a week, and eat no more than one meal or ~4 oz of meat on the other days primarily for "planet" reasons--eating lower on the food chain means land and water set aside for food production.

It's also why I try to "eat the neighborhood" and "eat the season"--avoiding meat and vegetables produced--and trucked--long distances. . . .even if that means reading a heck of a lot of labels to find out where the stuff comes from!

lhague

That's the best post here yet. Instead of people trying to push their "education" or selective reading, you have said what you do and how you do it. Good for you!


One more thing: THIS THREAD SHOULD JUST DIE!!!

MEAT EATERS WANT TO PROVE TO THOSE WHO DO NOT EAT MEAT, WHICH MAKES THOSE THAT DON'T EAT MEAT DIG THEIR HILLS IN MORE

DIE THREAD DIE