ESE - how important is it to consume absolutely no cals duri

carolynmittens

i've been doing the Eat Stop Eat program for a couple weeks now, and i've noticed how weak i feel when i drink nothing but water for 24 hours. and there's a BIG difference in my energy level if i just drink a few ounces of soymilk or orange juice in the morning. is it completely imperative that i consume no cals whatsoever during the 24 hour fast? does it screw something up in the process if i drink some orange juice?

scagneti

What do you eat the day before your 24 hour fast? Do you consume additional calories or do you eat your regular amount (and then not eat back your exercise calories?)

I've done ESE a few times now and feel amazing on it. I actually feel less hungry during the fast than I do when I eat every 3 hours.

DrBorkBork

If you are trying to achieve an honest fast, then you're not fasting if you consume anything with calories. If it has calories, you've broken your fast (where do you think the word "breakfast" came from? )

xomakaxo

I've never heard of this program, but it doesn't sound healthy. I think your body knows the answers... don't make yourself feel weak in order to be healthy/fit/slim. I don't know what your goals are or how long this program goes on, but it doesn't seem like a lifestyle change, it seems like a fad diet that will only make you frustrated.

Geminieve24

What is the "eat stop eat" program? Are you exercising too? I would think if you are not eating and exercising on those days you would feel hella weak! Also, (since I can assume you eat one day, dont the next, and then eat), what are you eating the night before? I would also think if you are not eating your body goes into starve mode and any calories you consume your body holds on too.

carolynmittens

If you are trying to achieve an honest fast, then you're not fasting if you consume anything with calories. If it has calories, you've broken your fast (where do you think the word "breakfast" came from? )

yes i was wondering if anyone knew any specific repercussions from eating cals during the fast, or if it would be just about as effective and not a huge deal

SHBoss1673

I've never heard of this program, but it doesn't sound healthy. I think your body knows the answers... don't make yourself feel weak in order to be healthy/fit/slim. I don't know what your goals are or how long this program goes on, but it doesn't seem like a lifestyle change, it seems like a fad diet that will only make you frustrated.

It's actually not bad. I've done a lot of study on Short Term Fasting. There's nothing medically wrong with 24 hour fasts, as long as you stay within the definition of "short term" I.E. start eating again before you run out of glycogen. That's when the bad stuff happens (insulin resistance, cortisol increase, testosterone and HGH decreases...etc.) It shouldn't be entered into lightly though, it's a difficult program, and there are a lot of pitfalls with it.

SHBoss1673

If you are trying to achieve an honest fast, then you're not fasting if you consume anything with calories. If it has calories, you've broken your fast (where do you think the word "breakfast" came from? )

yes i was wondering if anyone knew any specific repercussions from eating cals during the fast, or if it would be just about as effective and not a huge deal

medically, there's no pitfalls, but psychologically there may be, that depends on the person.

Geminieve24

I've never heard of this program, but it doesn't sound healthy. I think your body knows the answers... don't make yourself feel weak in order to be healthy/fit/slim. I don't know what your goals are or how long this program goes on, but it doesn't seem like a lifestyle change, it seems like a fad diet that will only make you frustrated.

It's actually not bad. I've done a lot of study on Short Term Fasting. There's nothing medically wrong with 24 hour fasts, as long as you stay within the definition of "short term" I.E. start eating again before you run out of glycogen. That's when the bad stuff happens (insulin resistance, cortisol increase, testosterone and HGH decreases...etc.) It shouldn't be entered into lightly though, it's a difficult program, and there are a lot of pitfalls with it.

Yes I agree SHBoss; fasting can be good for you, just wondering if the type of food consumed the day before can affect sugar levels, especially the next day. I will read up on it. I would assume working out on "fast days" is a no-no?

scagneti

Fasts are not unhealthy and are not "fads". Every major religion recognizes a fast.

You do not "not eat one day". Most people consume a couple hundred additional calories the day prior to the fast, eat their final meal and then stop eating at say, 7pm that day until 7pm the following day and consume slightly fewer calories than their daily recommended, so over the two days, there isn't much of an additional deficit. 8 hours of the fast, you're asleep and the rest you're doing your regular activites.

I finished one yesterday afternoon (had a massive lunch on Sunday so stopped eating at 2pm on Sunday until 2pm Monday). It helped avoid snacking simply because the Oscars were on and was very relaxing not to have to worry about food for 24 whole hours. Strength training exercises are encouraged, but I usually do some light cardio also. I don't know about you, but I find that I'm rarely hungry after exercise and the water helps to cleanse the system. The last fast I did, I lost three inches around my stomach from a rough weekend of drinking and bloating (it was clearly all water weight, but it was nice to get rid of).

But something that people have been doing for thousands of years is hardly a fad.

carolynmittens

sometimes i eat normally the day before the fast, some days i go over my calories a bit. and i'm trying to exercise as regularly as possible, lots of strength training as recommended by whoever that guy is that created the ESE program. though the first day i did the water fast and could barely handle a simple yoga class at the end of the day! so today i drank a little chocolate soymilk in the morning and i was able to do an hour of body works and an hour of yoga tonight. i felt just about normal, a little weak but nothing like the first day. it seems like the cals i burned with all that exercise (800 something) certainly outweigh the cals consumed from the soymilk (about 70). but i know with fasting, your body uses the extra enzymes not being used to digest food to detoxify your blood and damaged cells and tissue and all that, so i was just wondering if i'd be interrupting that process by drinking 70 cals worth of soymilk :P

scagneti

If you are trying to achieve an honest fast, then you're not fasting if you consume anything with calories. If it has calories, you've broken your fast (where do you think the word "breakfast" came from? )

yes i was wondering if anyone knew any specific repercussions from eating cals during the fast, or if it would be just about as effective and not a huge deal

Wouldn't insulin production resume, making you more hungry? Especially something as sugar laden as juice.

carolynmittens

Wouldn't insulin production resume, making you more hungry? Especially something as sugar laden as juice.

nah juice doesn't seem to make me hungrier, in fact a little bit of juice seems to eliminate my hunger completely! i drank some after my workout tonight and before eating dinner, and i had to force myself to eat, i felt so full from just a little OJ.

FitJoani

If you are trying to achieve an honest fast, then you're not fasting if you consume anything with calories. If it has calories, you've broken your fast (where do you think the word "breakfast" came from? )

thats really where breakfast came from????

SHBoss1673

I've never heard of this program, but it doesn't sound healthy. I think your body knows the answers... don't make yourself feel weak in order to be healthy/fit/slim. I don't know what your goals are or how long this program goes on, but it doesn't seem like a lifestyle change, it seems like a fad diet that will only make you frustrated.

It's actually not bad. I've done a lot of study on Short Term Fasting. There's nothing medically wrong with 24 hour fasts, as long as you stay within the definition of "short term" I.E. start eating again before you run out of glycogen. That's when the bad stuff happens (insulin resistance, cortisol increase, testosterone and HGH decreases...etc.) It shouldn't be entered into lightly though, it's a difficult program, and there are a lot of pitfalls with it.

Yes I agree SHBoss; fasting can be good for you, just wondering if the type of food consumed the day before can affect sugar levels, especially the next day. I will read up on it. I would assume working out on "fast days" is a no-no?

working out isn't necessarily bad for you, but you probably want to limit cardio to under 1 hour, preferably about 30 minutes. One of the reasons Short Term Fasts (STF) works is because the body can remain in homeostasis (calorie balance) by using stored fat AND glycogen to replace what would be fuel (food), but once that glycogen is gone (you can only get glycogen from carbs or sugar, the body can't make glucose out of fat or protein), especially if you don't have an overtly large amount of body fat to draw from, then it's very difficult for your body to make up the difference, which can cause lethargy, dehydration, and if left unchecked for longer periods, lots of really bad stuff. While weight training is probably better than cardio as weight training primarily uses anaerobic metabolic pathways, it's still something to be monitored closely.

spaboleo

Wouldn't insulin production resume, making you more hungry? Especially something as sugar laden as juice.

nah juice doesn't seem to make me hungrier, in fact a little bit of juice seems to eliminate my hunger completely! i drank some after my workout tonight and before eating dinner, and i had to force myself to eat, i felt so full from just a little OJ.

I knew a guy in my school back then, who was aswell lactose introlerant and couldn't handle raffinated suggars aswell as gluten (in wheat) that well...poor guty, I know. And even worse he was alergic to latex :frown:

Nevertheless, what I wanted to say was that he was able to process fruit-sugars very well.
So to not overfill himself with medcine for every meal he startet to drink juices and smoothies for dinner and breakfast every day, instead of eating something.
He never looked really that starved as one would assume with such a high grade of intolerances
So yes that's true. Juicy could even be a full meal for someone!


@scagnetti:
Yes that's true, when you intake calories during your fast your decrease of insulin will be broken.
But that won't occasionally make you feel more hungry...but what's fact the few calories consumed will be most-likely be stored as fat. So that would be counterproductive to the goal, wie are trying to reach


@SHBoss1673:
Yes, I wouldn't recommend doing intense cardio-workouts on your fasting days.
It's totally true what you wrote about the effects of weihgt training...if you really won't to do something on that day I would advise you to push some weights, too.
Without the biomedical-vocabulary and spoken more metaphorically:
Weight training, in which you usually exceed your personal strength limits will boost your body with a lower energy-consumption as cardio-workouts.
For me weight training with an empty stomache is even more comfortable, because there is nothing rumbling in my tummy




But I am personally quite unsure about, concerning the overwall ESE + MFP thing, is the amount I usually shoud intake.
I think I'll have to do some further calculations and experiments for the next few weeks.

I'm assuming that adding ESE as a part of exercise to your diary would be the best solution to not starve yourself and fit the goals set be MFP.

scagneti

As for insulin production, I just know it has something to do with weight loss and sending hunger signals to the brain. Something I remember from some book I read another lifetime ago. It said if you need to drink and eat simple carbs, it encouraged the consumation of the majority of the carbs (including alcohol and the bad white stuff) all within a 60 minute time frame because of insulin production. It said that most of people aren't going to give up those things for the rest of their lives (so true) and in order to minimize their effect, eat them all together within an hour and then eat properly the rest of the day.

I don't think that I've heard that since, but it seems really simple. Too simple in fact.

I'm by no means an ESE expert, but I try to consume the brunt of two days worth of my calories within the 48 hours (and just not eat for 24 of those). For me, it's not so much for the calorie deficit aspect and for weight loss, it's more to reset back to zero after an occassional rough weekend. I tried for three days of drinking an insane amount of water and lowering my sodium to lose the three inches of beer, bad carbs and just plain garbage that all collected right on my stomach from what I consumed over the holiday weekend and when that didn't help, one day of ESE did the trick. Had I felt the slightest bit dizzy I would have stopped though (over 18 hours still holds a lot of benefits, but 24 is apparently the golden hour). But I did very light cardio (20 minutes of Zumba and then I walked to and from work) whereas it appears the OP did a pretty intense cardio session and didn't eat as much as she should have beforehand (if she's talking about the last couple of days in her diary, where there appears to be a section that could have 24 hours without food).

SHBoss1673

insulin is the hormone that allows glucose uptake in cells through the cell wall. When fasting, insulin levels decrease.

As to drinking juice. I'm never a big fan except under special conditions. the sugar in juice is pretty high. In small amounts (say about 3 oz or less) I don't mind juice, but because there's no fiber to mitigate the conversion of fructose and sucrose, larger amounts are dumped into the blood stream very quickly (within a few minutes), and unless you just completed a high intensity workout, that's usually not a good thing as the only way the body can process excess blood sugar is through converting it and storing it as fat. And none of us want to stimulate fat storage, right?

xomakaxo

Fasts are not unhealthy and are not "fads". Every major religion recognizes a fast.
...
But something that people have been doing for thousands of years is hardly a fad.

Thanks for clarifying-- I didn't mean to offend anyone. I understand that fasting is recognized and encouraged in religious practice-- I'm not knocking on that, and I'm not saying that fasting for religious purposes is a fad. It just seems like a strange thing to do for dieting. Having had no prior knowledge of this particular program, I got the impression that it's every other day? Or is it once every few? I also didn't know it was normal to cram a bunch of calories in the night/day before a fast.

I was mostly worried about the adverse effects of the program, such as those listed by SHBoss (weakness, lethargy, dehydration, etc).

zoink66

i've been doing the Eat Stop Eat program for a couple weeks now, and i've noticed how weak i feel when i drink nothing but water for 24 hours. and there's a BIG difference in my energy level if i just drink a few ounces of soymilk or orange juice in the morning. is it completely imperative that i consume no cals whatsoever during the 24 hour fast? does it screw something up in the process if i drink some orange juice?

I'm not really sure how drinking something in the middle of your fast affects the benefits of the fast.
However, have you thought about making breakfast your first/last meal? Begin your fast after breakfast and fast through to the next morning. That way you might feel better for your evening exercise.

SHBoss1673

Fasts are not unhealthy and are not "fads". Every major religion recognizes a fast.
...
But something that people have been doing for thousands of years is hardly a fad.

Thanks for clarifying-- I didn't mean to offend anyone. I understand that fasting is recognized and encouraged in religious practice-- I'm not knocking on that, and I'm not saying that fasting for religious purposes is a fad. It just seems like a strange thing to do for dieting. Having had no prior knowledge of this particular program, I got the impression that it's every other day? Or is it once every few? I also didn't know it was normal to cram a bunch of calories in the night/day before a fast.

I was mostly worried about the adverse effects of the program, such as those listed by SHBoss (weakness, lethargy, dehydration, etc).

this is all well and good, but the problem comes from exactly what you stated. You made a statement without knowing the facts. Please don't take this to mean nobody wants to hear it. But we see it on MFP quite a bit. People not knowing a program, hearing the very edge of the details and making snap judgement on it. It's a very bad trait, it's how rumors start. You'll notice that I'm also a proponent of short term fasting if it's done correctly. I've done the research, and I know when a diet can go badly, and so I feel I'm qualified to give an opinion.

None of this is meant as an insult to you, I like to think of it as a teaching moment. Nutrition is complicated, and there's lots of wild theory and speculation that's based on nothing more than a few anecdotal cases, what we need is more research based fact, because we're dealing in a very diverse community, saying something sounds unhealthy without stopping and reading up on the program is a path to the dark side of the nutrition industry, it eventually leads to things like detoxes and low carb (for weight loss) diets. Things that sound wonderful in theory, but have very little factual merit and are supported solely by conjecture and circumstantial evidence. A [prime example is starvation mode. A perfectly valid medical condition that has been so wildly distorted that we now have a large minority that "doesn't believe in it" like it's some sort of legend or something. It's tragic.