ESE - how important is it to consume absolutely no cals duri

scagneti

Yeah, people tend to fear what they don't understand, which is fine, but don't start badmouthing something when you don't know what you're talking about. I don't see how that's difficult. Think of how much better the world would be if people would just listen to what someone says and if they don't agree do their own research and when they're educated about it, would THEN reply.

Glad to see another ESE user (I don't have the book or even know if I'm doing the creator's vision of it -- I'm just doing what's working for me). It's weird though because I've yet to be hungry on it. Like I mean HUNGRY. I expected to be so famished that I'd reach over and grab anything I could, but because I'm used to eating every couple of hours, I'd kind of reach towards my snack area and then remind myself -- "No. It's not time yet to eat, and you're not hungry anyways." and honestly I didn't get any backlash from my tummy for it. Not even a tummy gurgle!

I'm not a religious person and not even that into things like yoga, but I really do find the experience my version of zen. Sadly no halluciations but very at one with my mind and body.

NOLAdy

Who said that you fast every other day? Perhaps learning how to read and comprehend BEFORE you start babbling as though you know what you are talking about would be beneficial. A poster earlier today explained that it doesn't help this site for people who have no understanding at all of something to start talking like they know a single thing about it. That's how false information is spread about something and it does a huge disservice to people on this site.

If your calorie intake over two days is 2400 total, you're STILL getting in close to those numbers, so explain to me how you're starving. You just have a 24 hour period within that 48 hour period that you just concentrate on yourself without having to be constantly preoccupied with food. You get to have an extra long shower or do something fancy with your hair instead of rushing around the kitchen making breakfast. You can go for a walk over your lunch hour and not have to try to cram something in between meetings. You can focus on ensuring your body gets ample water and to truly be able to determine HUNGER from "oh, it's noon. Time to eat."

I've done a fast one per week for the last two weeks (haven't done this week's yet -- I'm thinking tomorrow), and it makes me far more alert (I went to bed at 9:30pm last night because I was so tired and tossed and turned all night), but during fast days, I sleep much more soundly and wake up with so much energy. I'm mentally much more focused and get so much work done, it's insane. I drop extra water weight/sludge that bloats up my stomach and makes me feel lethargic and unhappy.

I questioned the methods also because I didn't understand it completely either, but the difference is that I RESEARCHED myself and didn't automatically start with "OMG! I don't know what I'm talking about, but I don't approve so therefore it's wrong".

So, if I don't subscribe to your point of view than I don't know what I'm talking about? I looked into this diet plan and it's still not something that I would want to put myself through. And, yes, I still think it's obsurd. Now, excuse me while I try to figure out how I will be able to eat, shower and do something fancy with my hair all in the same day. There's just not enough time, I think I'll have to give up eating.

SHBoss1673

but once that glycogen is gone (you can only get glycogen from carbs or sugar, the body can't make glucose out of fat or protein),

Quick point - Amino acids (except for leucine and lysine) from proteins can enter the gluconeogenic cycle to create glucose, but fats can't. So your body can break down muscle proteins into amino acids to create glucose to feed your body and brain.

Yes, that's true. I don't want to get to technical (as if this isn't already to technical), but for those others reading this, the point is correct, and the brain can only use glycogen and ketones for fuel, where as the body can use FFA's (long and medium chain fatty acids) for energy. But converting protein to glucose is relatively slow compared to carbs, and not as efficient either; adhill may remember the ATP generated from gluconeogenesis, I forget off hand, but you get more from glycogen than you do from fats and proteins on a per molecule of glucose basis (because it requires ATP to create glucose from them, so the net it lower).

scagneti

Who said that you fast every other day? Perhaps learning how to read and comprehend BEFORE you start babbling as though you know what you are talking about would be beneficial. A poster earlier today explained that it doesn't help this site for people who have no understanding at all of something to start talking like they know a single thing about it. That's how false information is spread about something and it does a huge disservice to people on this site.

If your calorie intake over two days is 2400 total, you're STILL getting in close to those numbers, so explain to me how you're starving. You just have a 24 hour period within that 48 hour period that you just concentrate on yourself without having to be constantly preoccupied with food. You get to have an extra long shower or do something fancy with your hair instead of rushing around the kitchen making breakfast. You can go for a walk over your lunch hour and not have to try to cram something in between meetings. You can focus on ensuring your body gets ample water and to truly be able to determine HUNGER from "oh, it's noon. Time to eat."

I've done a fast one per week for the last two weeks (haven't done this week's yet -- I'm thinking tomorrow), and it makes me far more alert (I went to bed at 9:30pm last night because I was so tired and tossed and turned all night), but during fast days, I sleep much more soundly and wake up with so much energy. I'm mentally much more focused and get so much work done, it's insane. I drop extra water weight/sludge that bloats up my stomach and makes me feel lethargic and unhappy.

I questioned the methods also because I didn't understand it completely either, but the difference is that I RESEARCHED myself and didn't automatically start with "OMG! I don't know what I'm talking about, but I don't approve so therefore it's wrong".

So, if I don't subscribe to your point of view than I don't know what I'm talking about? I looked into this diet plan and it's still not something that I would want to put myself through. And, yes, I still think it's obsurd. Now, excuse me while I try to figure out how I will be able to eat, shower and do something fancy with my hair all in the same day. There's just not enough time, I think I'll have to give up eating.

You said that people who use IF fast every other day. That's not correct. If you had READ it, you'd know that.

Grokette

Yeah, people tend to fear what they don't understand, which is fine, but don't start badmouthing something when you don't know what you're talking about. I don't see how that's difficult. Think of how much better the world would be if people would just listen to what someone says and if they don't agree do their own research and when they're educated about it, would THEN reply.

Glad to see another ESE user (I don't have the book or even know if I'm doing the creator's vision of it -- I'm just doing what's working for me). It's weird though because I've yet to be hungry on it. Like I mean HUNGRY. I expected to be so famished that I'd reach over and grab anything I could, but because I'm used to eating every couple of hours, I'd kind of reach towards my snack area and then remind myself -- "No. It's not time yet to eat, and you're not hungry anyways." and honestly I didn't get any backlash from my tummy for it. Not even a tummy gurgle!

I'm not a religious person and not even that into things like yoga, but I really do find the experience my version of zen. Sadly no halluciations but very at one with my mind and body.

lodro

I've never heard of this program, but it doesn't sound healthy. I think your body knows the answers... don't make yourself feel weak in order to be healthy/fit/slim. I don't know what your goals are or how long this program goes on, but it doesn't seem like a lifestyle change, it seems like a fad diet that will only make you frustrated.

It's actually not bad. I've done a lot of study on Short Term Fasting. There's nothing medically wrong with 24 hour fasts, as long as you stay within the definition of "short term" I.E. start eating again before you run out of glycogen. That's when the bad stuff happens (insulin resistance, cortisol increase, testosterone and HGH decreases...etc.) It shouldn't be entered into lightly though, it's a difficult program, and there are a lot of pitfalls with it.

can you cite any sources for these statements?

sure, what would you like, the technical books that state it?

1) Advanced nutrition and human metabolism 5th edition by: Sareen S. Gropper, Jack L. Smith
2) Clinical Nutrition (The Nutrition Society Textbook Series) by: Michael J. Gibney (Editor), Marinos Elia (Editor), Olle Ljunggvist (Editor), Julie Dowsett (Editor)

or Research (I'll list a few meaningful ones, there's lots out there, but I just grabbed a few that were relevant)


1) Feeding, fasting and starvation: factors affecting fuel utilization by: McDonald and Webber
2)Fuel selection at the level of mitochondria in mammalian tissues BY: RICHARD M. DENTON aND JAMES G. McCORMACK
3)Whole-body and adipose tissue glucose metabolism in response to short-term fasting in lean and obese women by: Jeffrey F Horowitz, Simon W Coppack and Samuel Klein
4)Intermittent fasting does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism by: Maarten R Soeters, Nicolette M Lammers, Peter F Dubbelhuis, Mariëtte Ackermans, Cora F Jonkers-Schuitema, Eric Fliers, Hans P Sauerwein, Johannes M Aerts, and Mireille J Serlie
5)Growth hormone or insulin-like growth factor I increases fat oxidation and decreases protein oxidation without altering energy expenditure in parenterally fed rats by: HC Lo, MD Hirvonen, KR Kritsch, RE Keesey, and DM Ney
6) Metabolic effects of a single administration of growth hormone on lipid and carbohydrate metabolism in normal-weight and obese subjects by: G Seng, C Galgoti, P Louisy, P Toussain, P Drouin, and G Debry
7) Steroid metabolism and excretion in severe anorexia nervosa: effects of refeeding Am J Clin Nutr May 2011
8) Hormonal changes in normal men under marginally negative energy balance by: Dominique R Garrel, MD, Karen S Todd,4 MS, MM Pugeal,5 MD, and DII Calloway,6 PhD
9) Blunted lipolytic response to fasting in abdominally obese women: evidence for involvement of hyposomatotropism
Am J Clin Nutr March 2003

now, not all of these are immediately relevant to the conversation, some only peripherally discuss topics we care about, but in general, they all contribute something, and in one or two of these studies there's opposing data, but there you have it.

Any sources that i can access online?

SHBoss1673

I've never heard of this program, but it doesn't sound healthy. I think your body knows the answers... don't make yourself feel weak in order to be healthy/fit/slim. I don't know what your goals are or how long this program goes on, but it doesn't seem like a lifestyle change, it seems like a fad diet that will only make you frustrated.

It's actually not bad. I've done a lot of study on Short Term Fasting. There's nothing medically wrong with 24 hour fasts, as long as you stay within the definition of "short term" I.E. start eating again before you run out of glycogen. That's when the bad stuff happens (insulin resistance, cortisol increase, testosterone and HGH decreases...etc.) It shouldn't be entered into lightly though, it's a difficult program, and there are a lot of pitfalls with it.

can you cite any sources for these statements?

sure, what would you like, the technical books that state it?

1) Advanced nutrition and human metabolism 5th edition by: Sareen S. Gropper, Jack L. Smith
2) Clinical Nutrition (The Nutrition Society Textbook Series) by: Michael J. Gibney (Editor), Marinos Elia (Editor), Olle Ljunggvist (Editor), Julie Dowsett (Editor)

or Research (I'll list a few meaningful ones, there's lots out there, but I just grabbed a few that were relevant)


1) Feeding, fasting and starvation: factors affecting fuel utilization by: McDonald and Webber
2)Fuel selection at the level of mitochondria in mammalian tissues BY: RICHARD M. DENTON aND JAMES G. McCORMACK
3)Whole-body and adipose tissue glucose metabolism in response to short-term fasting in lean and obese women by: Jeffrey F Horowitz, Simon W Coppack and Samuel Klein
4)Intermittent fasting does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism by: Maarten R Soeters, Nicolette M Lammers, Peter F Dubbelhuis, Mariëtte Ackermans, Cora F Jonkers-Schuitema, Eric Fliers, Hans P Sauerwein, Johannes M Aerts, and Mireille J Serlie
5)Growth hormone or insulin-like growth factor I increases fat oxidation and decreases protein oxidation without altering energy expenditure in parenterally fed rats by: HC Lo, MD Hirvonen, KR Kritsch, RE Keesey, and DM Ney
6) Metabolic effects of a single administration of growth hormone on lipid and carbohydrate metabolism in normal-weight and obese subjects by: G Seng, C Galgoti, P Louisy, P Toussain, P Drouin, and G Debry
7) Steroid metabolism and excretion in severe anorexia nervosa: effects of refeeding Am J Clin Nutr May 2011
8) Hormonal changes in normal men under marginally negative energy balance by: Dominique R Garrel, MD, Karen S Todd,4 MS, MM Pugeal,5 MD, and DII Calloway,6 PhD
9) Blunted lipolytic response to fasting in abdominally obese women: evidence for involvement of hyposomatotropism
Am J Clin Nutr March 2003

now, not all of these are immediately relevant to the conversation, some only peripherally discuss topics we care about, but in general, they all contribute something, and in one or two of these studies there's opposing data, but there you have it.

Any sources that i can access online?

all of the research I pulled from online, www.ajcn.org was where most of them came from.

lodro

1) Advanced nutrition and human metabolism 5th edition by: Sareen S. Gropper, Jack L. Smith
2) Clinical Nutrition (The Nutrition Society Textbook Series) by: Michael J. Gibney (Editor), Marinos Elia (Editor), Olle Ljunggvist (Editor), Julie Dowsett (Editor)

these are online?

SHBoss1673

1) Advanced nutrition and human metabolism 5th edition by: Sareen S. Gropper, Jack L. Smith
2) Clinical Nutrition (The Nutrition Society Textbook Series) by: Michael J. Gibney (Editor), Marinos Elia (Editor), Olle Ljunggvist (Editor), Julie Dowsett (Editor)

these are online?

no those are books, I said the research was online.