Is there such thing as 'too much' protein?

realme56

what it boils down to is using common bloody sense, if you want to be a weight lifter with huge muscles you are going to need to eat lots of protein, if you are a desk jockey not very active or a couch potato then you need to eat for that. Tailor the diet to your specific needs, a desk jockey or couch potato does not need more than what mfp suggests. A physically active person who works out will need more and if you are gunning for bigger muscles you need more again.

This is true in a sense but farmers did die young at times, 50-60's. Kidney disease is elevated in high protein diets. Keeping fats low may stave off some heart disease but it is also elevated in high protein diets. We no longer have the lifestyle to support Newfie's diet (love the dogs) or other high protein diets. Moderation and getting various forms of proteins is healthier.

freerange

allow the professionals who have actually studied nutrition for years to give the real science about health risks instead of promoting newspaper articles or other media hype about the fad diet of the month.

And that would be,,,,,,,,,, you? Tell me, how long have I been studying nutrition?

jknops2

Good Point. My dad, a Dutch farmer ate the same, which beause he work hard, was never an issue. But when he kept eating like this in his 60ties and 70ties, when he retired it did become an issue. Calories in and calories out. When you work less you need to lower your calories intake. You need to target your intake to the work that you do. sitting at a desk all day, you do not need as much as paleo people hunting around all day to get some food.

freerange

Note the sentence "In all, they might consume about twice as many calories as a normal-weight monkey." And the sentence "It wasn’t until we added those carbs that we got all those other changes, including those changes in body fat." That specifically says they are consuming excess calories (twice as many as a normal-weight monkey) and they ADDED carbs (Added those carbs). So, yes, the monkeys in the San Antonio Center are eating in excess and have had additional carbs added to their eating plan. Also note that last sentence "about 40 percent do not put on a lot of weight." Wow, I guess carbs aren't the problem for everyone, or every monkey.

You are assuming facts not in evidence, no where does it say they were eating twice the amount to calories then were given even more carbs. Now it could be that is the case, it also could be that the calories remained constant while “those carbs” were added. Which by the way is how most scientific studies are done, change one factor at a time.

No one ever said eating excess carbs will make everyone fat. This is a strawman argument, making up a false statement so you can prove it wrong.

freerange

This is the entire section regarding Dr. Hansen and her research practices. It doesn't say how much Albert was fed, only that it stuck to the AHA guidelines. The AHA guidelines don't give a calorie range for humans, much less monkeys. From this article, we can't assume he overate or underate. But as she does mention that she prefers monkeys that gain weight as they age, and because they are using monkeys to be closer to how humans respond to weight, we can assume that the excess weight Albert gained was because he was doing as most humans do and eating the same amount as he aged that he had eaten earlier in life but with less activity and a reduced amount of muscle mass because monkeys like humans will lose muscle mass as they age if it isn't training to maintain it. Loss of muscle mass causes a decrease in metabolism, which is basically a decrease in the amount of calories used daily. If the monkey was on a 2000 calorie plan and was burning 2000 calories as a young monkey all is well, stable weight. Then if he became sedentary and lost muscle and ended up only burning 1500 calories per day but was still eating 2000 calories per day, that is a pound a week of weight gain.

Since we are doing so much assuming, I’m going to assume that obesity, no matter the diet is bad for the heart? And I’m also going to assume that when someone takes the trouble to mention that they followed the AHA diet recommendations, they are not meaning they would go thru the trouble of following the types of foods without regards to the amount. This would seem much more reasonable then to assume someone would but emphasis on the AHA diet but purposely overeat, then report that the AHA diet made them fat. Especially when that someone does not appear to have a ax to grind with the AHA.

freerange

I don't care if you want to eat a 90% saturated fat diet. I don't care if you want to eat nothing but meat like Lewis and Clark. If it works for you for your goals, great. If simply losing weight is your goal, which it obviously is since that is all you've focused on with your article, then you can probably achieve it with those diets as long as they are low calorie. But when someone asks a question as the OP did with regards to the health risk of excess protein, allow the professionals who have actually studied nutrition for years to give the real science about health risks instead of promoting newspaper articles or other media hype about the fad diet of the month.

Again your assumptions are wrong. My first post was about the Lewis and Clark expedition, only as an example that being over by a couple grams will not hurt you. By your and the other “expert” that answered they were over their allotted protein by 18x. If by that logic protein is damaging to the liver and kidneys and they were eating 18x the amount of protein than is “healthy” there should have been noticeable problems with their health. There was not, by all the accounts I have studied they had few diet related health problems. Aside from unsanitary conditions, and on a few occasions when their diet changed abruptly, like when they crossed the divide and had to change to a mostly salmon or root diet.

I posted the fat monkey article to show that any diet can be detrimental to your health. And to show that the LFHF diet is not necessarily the cure all it is made out to be.

My only goal is to point out the those that go on and on about the potential risk of protein, liver problems, kidney problems, even go so far as to imply you will get cancer if you don’t follow the official government recommended daily allowance. Are full of it, to put it bluntly. The government pushes their “ideal” diet ever harder year after year, school lunches have become more and more “healthy”. But our kids and our society become more and more overweight. Is it because all of us “fad” diet folks are getting to the majority of the people and making them ignore the government line? Or is it because your LFHF diet really doesn’t work the way you want it to?

SUZANNEGAY

3 years ago I finally lost 15 lbs. total on a different diet that had you eat ALOT of protein; but also fruit & veges. I've tried to keep with that diet; but I worry about the protein; but as soon as I eat more fruit & veges & less protein, I end up hungry & gaining the weight back. Any ideas for alternatives that work? I hadn't introduced myself yet; My name is Suzanne & I just joined this week.

kimiel

You all are quite entertaining!! LOL!! :laugh: :bigsmile:

freerange

It takes a lot longer then a couple of days to die from a high fat or high protein intake. Lewis died at 35 years old, much too soon to see the effects of his poor diet. Clark however, died at 69 from an unknown illness which could have easily been heart disease, liver disease, or some form of cancer. Medicine back then didn't really have the capability of looking at his cholesterol or other levels.

Your implication here is clear, if only these men had lived longer all the ills of eating this way would have caught up with them. I did a quick search to confirm some things I thought were true. Of the approximately 47 men not counting Lewis and Clark themselves, here is how they break down in longevity. Only one man died on the expedition, and that was from a suspected ruptured appendix.

19 men have unclear histories, not known when they were born or when they died.
York died from cholera, age unknown
5 men were killed by Indians
1 man died of Jaundice
3 died in their 40’s cause unknown
10 in their 50’s cause unknown
4 died in their 60’s cause unknown
3 died in their 70’s cause unknown
And one lived to the ripe old age of 99

Make what you will of these numbers, but back in those days living until your 50’s was doing pretty good. It appears their diet was probably not a major factor in their lack of longevity. I am making an assumption here. That assumption is based on several factors. One the lifestyle and diet of Americans did not change a whole lot between then and WWII. Most Americans ate whole unprocessed foods, with lots of fat, protein and complex carbs. And heart disease, cancer, and the normal host of other modern lifestyle diet related diseases we have today were unknown for the most part until post WWII. And yes we had the knowledge and wherewithal to detect them pre WWII. So to assume these men died from over eating protein and fats, takes a huge leap, which is not supported by the facts.

indigo_sue

This is entertaining. A bit heated, but good fun nonetheless.

Who's going to throw in the effects of ketosis when you're missing carbs and going high-protein? I've heard that can do a real number on your brain function.

My mom regularly does the Atkins diet and I think what she eats is absolutely insane. For example, she went an entire week barely touching fruits and vegetables. She'll eat three slices of bacon and an egg with cheese and milk for breakfast, routinely, for 6-8 weeks at a stretch, and lunch & dinner usually consist of lean meat and maybe a few deep green veggies for fibre.

I know that the whole "fat is bad for you" thing is starting to diminish, thankfully, but I'm just waiting for my mom to get diagnosed with high blood pressure, high cholesterol and damaged kidneys. And we have a family history of kidney problems to begin with.

Is it *****y for me to tell my mom I'm not going to donate one of mine to save her life?

freerange

You all are quite entertaining!! LOL!! :laugh: :bigsmile:

I’m glad you’re entertained, I hope some may find this educational as well as entertaining.

kimiel

You all are quite entertaining!! LOL!! :laugh: :bigsmile:

I’m glad you’re entertained, I hope some may find this educational as well as entertaining.

Of course!!

freerange

The men of the Lewis and Clark expedition averaged about 9 POUNDS of meat per day (mostly elk). Now, that alone equals 4680 calories, 54 grams of fat, and get this, 900 grams of protein. If you listen to the vegetarians, and the high carb “experts” here you would think these men would have dropped stone cold dead after a couple days from an exploded liver and complete kidney failure. They would also eat fat off the beavers they caught, or bear fat, and when they got to the west coast whale blubber, to increase their fat intake. These men were healthy, except for some of the local diseases and from drinking unsanitary water. And from the “cures” Clark would put them thru when they did get sick.

It takes a lot longer then a couple of days to die from a high fat or high protein intake. Lewis died at 35 years old, much too soon to see the effects of his poor diet. Clark however, died at 69 from an unknown illness which could have easily been heart disease, liver disease, or some form of cancer. Medicine back then didn't really have the capability of looking at his cholesterol or other levels.

Ketosis is a complex process, in and of itself it’s not harmful, the brain will actually thrive on ketones. However if your family has a history of kidney problems I would advise her to get regular checkups to make sure there are no problems with her kidney. Ketosis has not been shown to be harmful to healthy kidneys.

Something I feel I need to say here. Too often people take Atkins and other low carb diets, to the extreme. They only read part of the book, or only read the parts they like. These diets should be called controlled carbohydrate diets instead of low carb diets. They still advise to eat carbs, (Atkins cuts them almost completely out for the first two weeks) it’s just that they want you to be educated about what carbs do, and how to minimize these effects by eating the right carbs. People going off half cocked, not getting fully educated, and thinking they know everything is not new, or exclusive to low carb diets.

Newfiedan

Look I know you science buffs can debate this all day long but here is my final take on it. My grandfather lived to the age of 75 what killed him was the excess alcohol, he was smart enough to change his diet when he retired as his body did not need all the other stuff, he smoked, drank, and ate a bad diet and by all scientific knowledge should have been dead at 50 and morbidly obese, but he was not and he maintained a good level of health with the exception of the drinking which killed him (liver problems) I like how he summed up life to me. He said and I quote "to live a good life you must enjoy the good times, weather the bad, and just listen to your body. I ate what I wanted when I wanted and worked it off when I was working when I retired I changed the diet to reflect that. I worked like a dog and I do not regret one bloody thing because I lived my life how I wanted." What he taught me was to take joy in the simplicity of life, not to over analyze things and to keep things simple stupid. Diet and nutrition are 2 separate things, people have gotten so far off the basics and that is what has made them fat! I live my life by this simple dietary rule, "give your body what it needs and it will be good to you" So that means lots of veggies, lean meats, fruits, and good sources of carbs. Its not hard to understand, nor is it a complicated diet. Its simplicity is its beauty, no paleo diet this, or high protein low carb that. Its good sensible clean eating. Get off your lazy *kitten* and make your own damn meals and stop making excuses, its not hard to make the change at all once you get out of your junk addicted lifestyle with the quick fixes. There are no quick fixes, there are only results that work, I learned that the hard way and I am loving the new changes I have made, they are all small ones which amounts to the easiest fat loss of my life, feeling great and looking great. Feed the body what it truly needs, learn the signs as the cravings are the tell tale signs that it needs something and the weight will come off end of story.
To the original poster, high protein if you are not having any health issues should be fine, but high protein for you may be about 100g/day so eat it if you like, to the science buffs here who are in the middle of a heated argument about high protein vs carbs vs whatever who gives a crap, eat smart not stupid there debate ended.