Give me the straight dope about sodium

humblemonkey

More than just water retention causing weight gain...
A normal amount of sodium in the body helps to maintain blood pressure, temperature, and the bodt's functions...when too much sodium is ingested, it causes the body to retain more water than it is used to. This increase in fluid in the blood vessels causes blood pressure to rise. IF you simply continue to drink MORE fluids thinking you are going to "flush" the sodium out, you will just be adding to the already too high fluid amount in your body, thus increasing your blood pressure even higher. The only way to rid your body of the sodium would be to wait until it passes, or sweat it out...
ALSO.... your body relies on electrolytes to carry out important body functions...i.e.- your heart's conduction system!!... mainly, potassium and sodium... to carry out said functions normally, the body needs a constant level of these electrolytes. When our body senses there is too much or too little it adjusts by causing a fluid loss or signaling the thirst mechanism. (interesting fact-- this is why bars often offer free salty snacks--- your body will signal that thirst mechanism, therefore resulting in you buying more of their beverages!!) what I'm getting at, is that it is important to limit your sodium intake (but not cut it out all together, if that was even possible) because your body can only handle a certain amount to function properly.

Conversely, if just drinking water worked to sort of "flush things out of our system" drinking a gallon of water with every meal could make it so we never gain an ounce no matter what we ate! I suppose in a sense this is true--- water does flush fat and other things out of the body...but realistically, water is not the cure-all. You would drown yourself trying to flush all the fat and sodium out.

toots99

Interesting topic.

kelika71

Hmm, now you guys are making me think that tracking blood pressure regularly might be something worth doing, just like we track weight, body fat %, resting heart rate, etc....

It's not a bad idea for anyone to do. Anytime you go to the dr. it should always be checked. If you get a nurse like mine, just wants to write it in my chart and let it go...NO! Ask. You should always know your numbers. After all, they're your numbers.

I don't know how the ones are in pharmacies...could ask the pharmacist or your dr. how good they are.

The same goes for a lipid profile. That should be yearly. It's your body, your numbers and your responsibility to make sure things are done and are right.

taso42_DELETED

Well I've definitely showed my ignorance by asking this, but I'm glad that I did. Clearly, water retention is the least of the concerns. There is a lot info to digest here. I will take a good look. Thanks for the responses. By all means keep them coming if anyone has more.

How does this reconcile with what tharrop's doctor found? He's in excellent health and all his stats check out, even though he (presumably) has higher than recommended sodium consumption (I'm not even sure how much higher; I haven't been scrutinizing his sodium levels ). Does that mean his sodium intake happens to be fine for his body, or is he increasing risk for problems that may surface later? Perhaps reading all the links and info upthread will answer this question too.

kelika71

Ok, it's off the wall, but I'm going to try to give you an example for you about tharrop's situation.

No one knows specifically what their body is doing unless tests or surgeries are performed.

Take alcohol, for instance. If you were to have 1 beer and I were to have 1 beer (yuck!) you would be fine. I would end up tipsy. Not just due to weight or I'm a female. Just different situations, people and everything. Sodium, carbs, fats...everything is different. Age, health, how your organs are, genetics...all play a role in everything.

1500 mg is what the govt. recently set for everyone. It's just a guideline...not law.

I hope that helps...I probably made it worse. lol

tgh1914

Well, I should add that I'm certainly in agreement with all the warnings & data posted in this thread about the risks of hypertension, heart disease and so forth. My original post/original thread was more about how we as individuals are all a little different and some of the pre-set guidelines in MFP are not equally applicable to all.

That said though, my high sodium intake may be ok for me and definitely not for another. In fact, I've always had really good blood pressure and a low pulse, even when I wasn't as much into exercising & eating right. When I wasn't working out my resting heart rate would hover around 60 bpm (normally considered quite healthy); now it's more like 40 bpm. I know genetics has some to do with this. So it's definitely different for everyone.

taso42_DELETED

it reminded me so much of the question, "if i eat back exercise calories, what's the point of exercising??" ah, the groans and horror such questions elicited!!! now i'm guessing you're not a sodium addict and not trying to justify eating lots of sodium, and i'll assume you're asking in theory (right? )

Touché!

Nah, i'm not a sodium addict at all (although I am guilty of being over 2500mg pretty much every day). I am just THAT clueless about the topic that I was seriously questioning whether it's even valid and whether we all worry about sodium for nothing. Sort of like how people worry about eating late at night because that was the common lore for a long time. Don't worry, I'm not going to keep a salt lick next to my computer from now on

kelika71

Well, I should add that I'm certainly in agreement with all the warnings & data posted in this thread about the risks of hypertension, heart disease and so forth. My original post/original thread was more about how we as individuals are all a little different and some of the pre-set guidelines in MFP are not equally applicable to all.

That said though, my high sodium intake may be ok for me and definitely not for another. In fact, I've always had really good blood pressure and a low pulse, even when I wasn't as much into exercising & eating right. When I wasn't working out my resting heart rate would hover around 60 bpm (normally considered quite healthy); now it's more like 40 bpm. I know genetics has some to do with this. So it's definitely different for everyone.

Exactly!! The flipside, though...you might be fine with a high sodium diet now. Down the road, it could start taking a toll on your body. Then again, you may be a lucky one.

tgh1914

Ya know, back in the day (like the 50's & earlier I think), coaches used to give players salt tabs. It was thought to be healthy back then because of all the salt being spent through their sweating. Nowadays it's a lot better to just let em sip some Gatorade for electrolyte replacement. But there is some truth to the fact that you'll spend some sodium by sweating a lot.

kelika71

It may seem silly, but one way you can see if your sodium intake is grotesquely overboard. Take your finger and push on your shins. Is there like an indentation left? This is what's called "pitting edema." That's what I was dealing with last year. I always check now.

tgh1914

Well, I should add that I'm certainly in agreement with all the warnings & data posted in this thread about the risks of hypertension, heart disease and so forth. My original post/original thread was more about how we as individuals are all a little different and some of the pre-set guidelines in MFP are not equally applicable to all.

That said though, my high sodium intake may be ok for me and definitely not for another. In fact, I've always had really good blood pressure and a low pulse, even when I wasn't as much into exercising & eating right. When I wasn't working out my resting heart rate would hover around 60 bpm (normally considered quite healthy); now it's more like 40 bpm. I know genetics has some to do with this. So it's definitely different for everyone.

Exactly!! The flipside, though...you might be fine with a high sodium diet now. Down the road, it could start taking a toll on your body. Then again, you may be a lucky one.

That's very true, and is why I get regular blood pressure tests.

SaraTonin

You do sweat out salt, so if you're working out like a horse it would make sense that you might need more than 500mg a day (the recommended minimum).

I have a friend who tested LOW for sodium. I don't know how, as he eats fast food and canned food for at least half of his meals. He also has a specific heart condition (several surgeries as a baby), that is very rare and probably affects it.

HealthiHannah

Hmm, now you guys are making me think that tracking blood pressure regularly might be something worth doing, just like we track weight, body fat %, resting heart rate, etc....

Its really only necessary if you don't go to the doctor for regular check ups. Your blood pressure will fluctuate daily but not in unhealthy amounts. If you get it checked regularly at the doctor, they will be able to see trends to know if there is a problem.

ladyhawk00

It may be that Tharrop has particularly kick *kitten* kidneys, works out and sweats a lot, gets a lot of potassium, and has a sodium genie hidden in his closet. Really, though, it is genetics, environment, other food choices, etc etc ad nauseum that will effect how efficient your body is at dealing with sodium.

Some people deal with it very well, others not so much. If you don't have cardiac, BP or kidney issues, I wouldn't be horribly concerned if you are going over by a moderate amount (say 500). But I'd also want at least a general check up and a few blood tests (such as Tharrop had) to verify that those things aren't issues before giving a pass on it.

To me, one of the key issues here though is WHERE is that sodium coming from. To me (aside from the above mentioned medical issues) sodium is a SYMPTOM of something else - eating things that aren't too healthy. Yes, whole foods contain some sodium, but if your diet is pretty clean, without a lot of processed stuff, then your sodium isn't going to be all that high. If you have a lot of processed stuff, it's going to be higher. Most of the time, if I look at a diary and ONLY look at sodium levels, I can tell you what kind of stuff they're eating. That's certainly not the only factor, but I think it's something to look at as far as what the sources of sodium are. So, take that for what it's worth.

kelika71

It may be that Tharrop has particularly kick *kitten* kidneys, works out and sweats a lot, gets a lot of potassium, and has a sodium genie hidden in his closet. Really, though, it is genetics, environment, other food choices, etc etc ad nauseum that will effect how efficient your body is at dealing with sodium.

Some people deal with it very well, others not so much. If you don't have cardiac, BP or kidney issues, I wouldn't be horribly concerned if you are going over by a moderate amount (say 500). But I'd also want at least a general check up and a few blood tests (such as Tharrop had) to verify that those things aren't issues before giving a pass on it.

To me, one of the key issues here though is WHERE is that sodium coming from. To me (aside from the above mentioned medical issues) sodium is a SYMPTOM of something else - eating things that aren't too healthy. Yes, whole foods contain some sodium, but if your diet is pretty clean, without a lot of processed stuff, then your sodium isn't going to be all that high. If you have a lot of processed stuff, it's going to be higher. Most of the time, if I look at a diary and ONLY look at sodium levels, I can tell you what kind of stuff they're eating. That's certainly not the only factor, but I think it's something to look at as far as what the sources of sodium are. So, take that for what it's worth.

LMAO @ sodium genie!! Dang it! I want one!! hahaha Hell, I NEED one!!

ashahl

Not completely related but… I would caution people to be really careful about the amount of water they consume as well. I was diagnosed with polydipsia (obsessive water drinking) a couple of years ago. I started to obsessively drink approximately 5 -8 liters of water a day and eventually became really sick because it was washing out all of my salts and wreaking havoc on my kidneys. I was put on salt tablets and was forced to cut down my intake under threat of hospitalization.
…So having a bad salt day and trying to completely drown it out with excessive amounts of water isn't healthy either. Be careful

PrairieRoseNE

Very informative post!!

chrisdavey

Interesting article re sodium

http://www.t-nation.com/article/diet_and_nutrition/sodium_your_secret_weapon&cr=

Some points:

A low-sodium diet makes the situation even worse in regard to optimum electrolyte metabolism, because potassium is dependent on sodium to be effective for a number of reasons. Potassium's primary responsibilities are the regulation and control of skeletal and cardiac muscles. The vagus nerve, which controls heartbeat, is totally dependent on potassium.

Potassium is the positively charged ion inside of the cell. While its independent functions in the control of muscles have been pointed out, potassium itself is dependent on sodium to maintain cell integrity: the exact balance of cations and ions inside and outside cell walls.

How does potassium get into the muscle cell in the first place? Sodium delivers it.

150-pound athletes (both male and female) who train at high intensity levels should drink at least two or three liters of water per day. 200-pound athletes should be drinking a minimum of three to four liters, and athletes over 225 pounds should drink a minimum of four to six liters.

At two grams per liter of fluid replacement, it's obvious that most athletes do not take in nearly enough sodium. For example, a 225-pound athlete would need to ingest between eight and twelve grams of sodium daily. That's right, 8,000 to 12,000 mg a day.

Water retention is temporary, and will dissipate as long as sodium and water intake remain high. The athlete will then notice a higher volume of urinary output, more sweating, the appearance of a leaner, harder physique, and more pumped and full muscles in the gym.

lilmissy2

On weight gain - water retention has nothing to do with fat you are losing, in case you didn't already know that. It doesn't look good on the scale though. Unless you have a kidney problem, the point where you reach 'equilibrium' as you call it shouldn't be too far away. Water retention can potentially be a lot but water retention due to sodium is unlikely to be a lot because of the way sodium is processed in the body - the majority will just be flushed out by the kidneys.

On blood pressure - sodium has been shown to have an effect but a low sodium diet alone will not prevent high blood pressure. The high blood pressure is caused by the increased blood volume - a combination of salt and water. So no, drinking the extra water after having a lot of sodium does not make things better. To put things into perspective - in terms of the effect of lifestyle related things on blood pressure, it goes something like: exercise has a 35% effect, weight loss has a 20% effect, sodium has a 5% effect (in those who are affected by sodium which isn't everybody). Also, I should mention that the studies where positive effect on blood pressure are seen are using a sodium level of 40-60mmol (about 1000mg) per day.

On electrolyte levels - these should not really be affected no matter how much sodium you eat. It does not measure the amount in your body, only the amount in your blood at the time you are tested. Your body is very good at regulating itself, if you need fluid then you will get thirsty. If you don't drink then it will get the water from somewhere else in your body for the blood and you will get thirstier. If you still don't drink then you will get dehydrated but your electrolytes might still be in normal range.

There is still debate on whether the potassium to sodium ratio outweighs the actual number of sodium. It is the potassium to sodium ratio that affects your heart activity, not so much the sodium amount itself but still, it hasn't been proven that increasing potassium is as beneficial as controlling sodium.

Hope that helps

Wightvixen

Aside from other health issues (high blood pressure etc) I think the water retention element varies from person to person. Some people blow up at the drop of a hat, and others like myself never seem to have a problem with it, regardless of what we eat, the time of the month, pregnancy or whatever. There must be a genetic element involved.