What does Morality mean to you?
Replies
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I feel wedding vows are applied to via religion. Would you agree? Well in that same statement how many people that hold their wedding vows so sacred were both virgins when they wed? I feel piece of morality applied by religion has been washed away over time....wonder why that is?
Maybe I should retitle the post to morals/values?
In response, no, I wasn't a virgin when I got married, and neither was my wife, we were 28 and 26 respectively. But one I said those vows I became committed to my wife and only my wife. Which meant I would no longer seek carnal knowledge from another.
As far as the "V" card, it was put to me like this, you wouldn't buy a new car without test driving it first, would you??0 -
Why does the man always get a Pass!?
Sorry for not quoting the whole post but this portion stood out to me the most.
I'd say that historically, yes, the man has gotten a pass in infidelity, but in more contemporary culture the man that cheats is now open season for whatever random and over the top retribution that comes his way.
I can think of plenty of current pop-psychologist that promote the mentality of "A man that cheats is a sex-crave adolescence and a woman that cheats is not getting her emotional needs met".
I always thought that it was interesting that the movies "Fatal Attraction" and "Bridges of Madison County" came out so close to each other and deal with infidelity in such different ways.0 -
* Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
I dont believe in this. If I hurt someone and I knew I was going to and it was done with purpose then why would I say I am sorry for it?
The question here is why would you do something that you know would purposely hurt another? That goes against the whole "do unto others".0 -
I am playing devils advocate here and seeing how and who taught you what morality is and what your morals are? What in your life dictates what is good and what is bad? I am posting this because most of us just saw the married man locked post PLUS I watched the movie Crash last night and was reading a book that dove deeply into morals and who/how and why they are in someone's live and how they are created as a viewpoint of the person passing them on to someone else.
Please fill this post with your moral views BUT no fighting just adult like conversation please
Morality is a philosophy that can be modified, codified and devalued as easily as the days change. Someone already mentioned Kant; and if you're at all familiar with the history of philosophy, then you know that this is an age old conversation about what morality is and where it comes from. It's about as elusive as proving religion (ANY religion). Just ask Plato, Socrates, or Jesus. They'll all give you a different answer.
Good and bad are non-existent. We, as human beings, place these values on circumstances and events on some personal scale based on experiences - our world view - aka: schema (for those in psychology). Same is true for "right" and "wrong"; in spite of universal law, it's a flawed theory. If I recall correctly, there's was a great amount of conflict between this and the concept of "duty".
Values are beliefs that we hold in the highest esteem, but we may not necessarily act on.
Ethics - now ethics is another animal that is bred from a combination of morals, values and society/culture. I believe this may be the real question at hand. We are living in extremely unethical times; probably more so now than in the dark ages as this has more of a global effect, thank you technology.
I have exceptionally high ethics but I cannot claim sainthood and come even remotely close to living completely up to them at all times. My ethics revolve around the golden rule, karma, and just generally what I perceive as being humane, kind, and good. Don't hurt something that can't defend itself; if you must kill, make it for food and use all parts of your kill - and for crying out loud, thank it for its sacrifice; war - under any guise - is wrong because it is glorified and sanctioned murder no matter how you pretty it up; unless it is as a necessary evil of self-defense, killing is wrong; generally, lying is wrong but if you've ever encountered a "moral dilemma" problem, then you know there's exceptions to every rule and nothing is absolute.
Nothing is absolute. Therein lies probably the biggest flaw of Kant's philosophies (IMHO) and in many people's perceptions of morality.
I've always been very sensitive and empathetic - but I have also found a hardness inside of me that has to do with survival. I will turn the other cheek until you threaten me or my ability to care for my family... then it's on and I feel ethically and morally validated in whatever actions I deem necessary under those particular circumstances.
We can't deitize our beliefs when it comes to real human action and interaction or we will never become what we could be.0 -
I try to abide by the golden rule (treat others like you want to be treated), that's what morality means to me.
DITTO!!!0 -
I haven't read the post about the married man either. So, instead, I will address the title of this post as I see it. What does morality mean to me?
Morality means whatever I 'think' is right, is in fact right and whatever I 'think' is wrong, is in fact wrong, regardless of whether I'm 'actually' right or wrong.
As for the do unto others as you'd have done unto you - it's great in theory but in practical application it doesn't always hold water.
If I'm a thief and my morals dictate stealing is 'okay', or 'right', then why am I so upset when someone steals from me?
Or, if I tell a little white lie because I believe little white lies are 'okay' or 'right', then why do I get so upset when someone tells me a little white lie?
And if I believe everyone on the road should drive carefully, with caution and consideration of others, and that all accidents are preventable, then why don't I get upset at myself after I've just cut someone off accidentally as I do everyone else?
The problem with morals is that we all want to believe there is only a good OR bad, that we should behave one way OR the other instead of there being a good AND bad.
The problem with morals is that they don't take into account the duplicity of man in all of his or her contradictions.
The problems with morals is that because they are concerned with or adhering to the code of interpersonal behavior that is considered right or acceptable in a particular society, and that society is imperfect and filled with contradictory morals depending on who is judging and who is being judged, there can never be a truly unified code upon which we can all agree.
If it's not okay for a married man to have an affair, why do so many married women who've recently been betrayed by adulterous husbands end up sleeping with other married men and vice versa?
Do you see the point I'm trying to convey? Morals are, in my opinion, too ambiguous because people are too contradictory in their thoughts and behaviors.
This website is living proof of that.
How many of us here on MFP want to change our eating habits, lose excess fat, and live healthier lives? And yet, in that process, how many of us live contrary to our desires? We cheat, over-indulge, skip our workouts, binge, don't record everything we've eaten, purposely don't log on, look for quick fixes .... do I really need to go on?
Thus, I believe those things concerned with or adhering to the code of interpersonal behavior that is considered right or acceptable in a particular society can only occur with consistency AFTER a global unification of thoughts, emotions and desires. Until then, we continue to live in internal discord, ambiguity and contradiction. It's as simple and complex as that.0 -
* Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
I dont believe in this. If I hurt someone and I knew I was going to and it was done with purpose then why would I say I am sorry for it?
The question here is why would you do something that you know would purposely hurt another? That goes against the whole "do unto others".
Hence my post in the first place. My moral upbringing is totally different then most. I was brought up an eye for an eye and some other views that most people don't agree with.0 -
To WeWon:
Right, Right.
Maybe this should be a Topic that examines ANYONE'S need to Cheat instead of making Judgments on someone who OPENLY admits to cheating. Morality PROBABLY has Nothing to Do with it (Morality is Belief, Values are ACTIONS.) So many people BELIEVE in THEIR Child/or Someone Else's Staying a Virgin until they get married, BUT They, Themselves did NOT.
Asking someone what they BELIEVE is soooo easy and the RESPONSE is EASY. But Do you know it has taken Me over 3 years to THOUGHTFULLY Write out My VALUES and Tweak them. It's about How I LIVE and Striving to LIVE That WAY!
Reading and WORKING, "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, By Stephen Covey Forced Me to Work through and SEE Myself and the LIFE that I was Living. It Forced Me to PARTICIPATE in My Own Life.
I don't mind making Judgments on someone if I LIVE what I am saying; BUT if I just BELIEVE something and have NOT proven I can LIVE IT, THEN I'm also Judging Myself. It is written: We CONDEMN OURSELVES out of our OWN Mouth!0 -
Morality is a philosophy that can be modified, codified and devalued as easily as the days change. Someone already mentioned Kant; and if you're at all familiar with the history of philosophy, then you know that this is an age old conversation about what morality is and where it comes from. It's about as elusive as proving religion (ANY religion). Just ask Plato, Socrates, or Jesus. They'll all give you a different answer.
Good and bad are non-existent. We, as human beings, place these values on circumstances and events on some personal scale based on experiences - our world view - aka: schema (for those in psychology). Same is true for "right" and "wrong"; in spite of universal law, it's a flawed theory. If I recall correctly, there's was a great amount of conflict between this and the concept of "duty".
Values are beliefs that we hold in the highest esteem, but we may not necessarily act on.
Ethics - now ethics is another animal that is bred from a combination of morals, values and society/culture. I believe this may be the real question at hand. We are living in extremely unethical times; probably more so now than in the dark ages as this has more of a global effect, thank you technology.
I have exceptionally high ethics but I cannot claim sainthood and come even remotely close to living completely up to them at all times. My ethics revolve around the golden rule, karma, and just generally what I perceive as being humane, kind, and good. Don't hurt something that can't defend itself; if you must kill, make it for food and use all parts of your kill - and for crying out loud, thank it for its sacrifice; war - under any guise - is wrong because it is glorified and sanctioned murder no matter how you pretty it up; unless it is as a necessary evil of self-defense, killing is wrong; generally, lying is wrong but if you've ever encountered a "moral dilemma" problem, then you know there's exceptions to every rule and nothing is absolute.
Nothing is absolute. Therein lies probably the biggest flaw of Kant's philosophies (IMHO) and in many people's perceptions of morality.
I've always been very sensitive and empathetic - but I have also found a hardness inside of me that has to do with survival. I will turn the other cheek until you threaten me or my ability to care for my family... then it's on and I feel ethically and morally validated in whatever actions I deem necessary under those particular circumstances.
We can't deitize our beliefs when it comes to real human action and interaction or we will never become what we could be.
Thank you for bringing up the debate between morals and ethics. I wanted to begin the dialogue but I'm being lazy today and didn't feel like typing it all out haha. I think you did a better job than I would have anyway.0 -
Hence my post in the first place. My moral upbringing is totally different then most. I was brought up an eye for an eye and some other views that most people don't agree with.
[/quote]
I do believe "an eye for an eye" is from the bible as is "turn the other cheek", making it difficult to decided which way to go. But the way I look at it is in the case of "an eye for an eye" where does it stop?0 -
I am playing devils advocate here and seeing how and who taught you what morality is and what your morals are? What in your life dictates what is good and what is bad? I am posting this because most of us just saw the married man locked post PLUS I watched the movie Crash last night and was reading a book that dove deeply into morals and who/how and why they are in someone's live and how they are created as a viewpoint of the person passing them on to someone else.
Please fill this post with your moral views BUT no fighting just adult like conversation please
Morality is a philosophy that can be modified, codified and devalued as easily as the days change. Someone already mentioned Kant; and if you're at all familiar with the history of philosophy, then you know that this is an age old conversation about what morality is and where it comes from. It's about as elusive as proving religion (ANY religion). Just ask Plato, Socrates, or Jesus. They'll all give you a different answer.
Good and bad are non-existent. We, as human beings, place these values on circumstances and events on some personal scale based on experiences - our world view - aka: schema (for those in psychology). Same is true for "right" and "wrong"; in spite of universal law, it's a flawed theory. If I recall correctly, there's was a great amount of conflict between this and the concept of "duty".
Values are beliefs that we hold in the highest esteem, but we may not necessarily act on.
Ethics - now ethics is another animal that is bred from a combination of morals, values and society/culture. I believe this may be the real question at hand. We are living in extremely unethical times; probably more so now than in the dark ages as this has more of a global effect, thank you technology.
I have exceptionally high ethics but I cannot claim sainthood and come even remotely close to living completely up to them at all times. My ethics revolve around the golden rule, karma, and just generally what I perceive as being humane, kind, and good. Don't hurt something that can't defend itself; if you must kill, make it for food and use all parts of your kill - and for crying out loud, thank it for its sacrifice; war - under any guise - is wrong because it is glorified and sanctioned murder no matter how you pretty it up; unless it is as a necessary evil of self-defense, killing is wrong; generally, lying is wrong but if you've ever encountered a "moral dilemma" problem, then you know there's exceptions to every rule and nothing is absolute.
Nothing is absolute. Therein lies probably the biggest flaw of Kant's philosophies (IMHO) and in many people's perceptions of morality.
I've always been very sensitive and empathetic - but I have also found a hardness inside of me that has to do with survival. I will turn the other cheek until you threaten me or my ability to care for my family... then it's on and I feel ethically and morally validated in whatever actions I deem necessary under those particular circumstances.
We can't deitize our beliefs when it comes to real human action and interaction or we will never become what we could be.
This is the answer I was looking for! This is exactly dead on the response I was hoping someone would come up with. There is no such thing as a good or bad person or someone that is right or wrong in the world. Maybe in a situation or instance you may see or view them as a wrong doer but to assume that the person is bad by one action is just harst and judgemental in itself.0 -
Hence my post in the first place. My moral upbringing is totally different then most. I was brought up an eye for an eye and some other views that most people don't agree with.
I do believe "an eye for an eye" is from the bible as is "turn the other cheek", making it difficult to decided which way to go. But the way I look at it is in the case of "an eye for an eye" where does it stop?
[/quote]
Maybe the action of that moral value never gets played out, maybe it is done at every instance possible? The only person to decide when is enough enough is the person applying that moral value daily. Would you say so?0 -
To WeWon:
Right, Right.
Maybe this should be a Topic that examines ANYONE'S need to Cheat instead of making Judgments on someone who OPENLY admits to cheating. Morality PROBABLY has Nothing to Do with it (Morality is Belief, Values are ACTIONS.) So many people BELIEVE in THEIR Child/or Someone Else's Staying a Virgin until they get married, BUT They, Themselves did NOT.
Asking someone what they BELIEVE is soooo easy and the RESPONSE is EASY. But Do you know it has taken Me over 3 years to THOUGHTFULLY Write out My VALUES and Tweak them. It's about How I LIVE and Striving to LIVE That WAY!
Reading and WORKING, "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, By Stephen Covey Forced Me to Work through and SEE Myself and the LIFE that I was Living. It Forced Me to PARTICIPATE in My Own Life.
I don't mind making Judgments on someone if I LIVE what I am saying; BUT if I just BELIEVE something and have NOT proven I can LIVE IT, THEN I'm also Judging Myself. It is written: We CONDEMN OURSELVES out of our OWN Mouth!
This is one of a pile of books I have read lately that drummed up this post. along with "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People", "No More Mr. Nice Guy", "Take Me To Truth: Undoing the Ego", "ego-LESS self"0 -
Maybe the action of that moral value never gets played out, maybe it is done at every instance possible? The only person to decide when is enough enough is the person applying that moral value daily. Would you say so?
Yes! Which brings us back to treating others correctly because you never know if that person you pissed off has any moral values. They may not have a stop button.0 -
To DJThom:
I wish I had more of "Eye for an eye" in my Upbringing...then I may have been able to balance it with "Turn the other cheek" and "Do unto Others...." When one is brought up "turning" and "Doing" they are usually NOT ingrained with the notion that there are some MEAN, Hate-filled, Don't Give a Dayyum, I'll Take Your Stuff and Don't Care, I'll Kill You in a minute and don't believe in GOD or Karma or anything but me and mine...MF out there!0 -
To JTurner:
Also check out "Servant Leader." I forget the author right now.0 -
To JTurner:
Also check out "Servant Leader." I forget the author right now.
It's about Jesus and god right? Ehhh not religious.0 -
To DJThom:
I wish I had more of "Eye for an eye" in my Upbringing...then I may have been able to balance it with "Turn the other cheek" and "Do unto Others...." When one is brought up "turning" and "Doing" they are usually NOT ingrained with the notion that there are some MEAN, Hate-filled, Don't Give a Dayyum, I'll Take Your Stuff and Don't Care, I'll Kill You in a minute and don't believe in GOD or Karma or anything but me and mine...MF out there!
It sounds like we had a similar upbringing. Only seeing the best in people has gotten me in trouble more than once. But I still can't help beleive that most people are inherently good, and if you treat them with respect they will act with respect.0 -
If you can find a situation that Kant's theory doesn't cover I'll give you five dollars.0
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I have no morals...that is all.0
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My mother asked me one day randomly what my morals/values were and my response was "Ok, I believe in death, destruction, chaos, filth, and greed!"
Someone tell me what movie that's from and I will send you 5 bucks....NO GOOGLE0 -
My mother asked me one day randomly what my morals/values were and my response was "Ok, I believe in death, destruction, chaos, filth, and greed!"
Someone tell me what movie that's from and I will send you 5 bucks....NO GOOGLE
American History X0 -
Cheater.....0
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To JTurner:
Also check out "Servant Leader." I forget the author right now.
It's about Jesus and god right? Ehhh not religious.
NOPE...NOT Even Close.0 -
My morality is live and let live. The only thing I am really really strong on is not killing or harming other living creatures. Things like battery farming and fishing are far more abhorrent to me than infidelity.0
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Don't do it if you wouldn't want everyone doing it.
And I'll just add the inverse: Do it if you would like others to do it. i.e. If you see someone in trouble, you should help them if you would like others to help you when in need.
I had a band teacher who told us that before you act, think about whether or not you could get into trouble for doing it. If you can get into trouble for doing it, then it's probably wrong. For a kid, that was a great basis for doing the right thing.0 -
Don't do it if you wouldn't want everyone doing it.
And I'll just add the inverse: Do it if you would like others to do it. i.e. If you see someone in trouble, you should help them if you would like others to help you when in need.
I had a band teacher who told us that before you act, think about whether or not you could get into trouble for doing it. If you can get into trouble for doing it, then it's probably wrong. For a kid, that was a great basis for doing the right thing.
But sometimes the right thing or good thing is the wrong thing.0 -
Moral Relativism.....interesting read! 0
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Ill look into both. I have a addiction to books and amazon.0
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LIFE has taught Me to Don't Give a Dayyum about someone's Morality...Show Me How A "Man/Woman" LIVES! I don't care if someone spouts of Religious stuff...Do they Buy "hot" electronics, Do they "shack-up," Do they Lust after the woman/man at work/down the street... If I loan someone $500 will they pay Me back, and then on time; Do they look like a million bucks at work and LIVE in a "Cesspool" at home; Do they say, "thou Shall Not Kill and Say "well Done" when the News says "Someone has KILLED an Abortion Doctor;" Do they hate/say it's wrong to be "Gay" and Live on the "Down Low;" Does someone give all this Great Nutritional Advice but eat like a Pig EVERYDAY...
Show Me how Someone Lives>>>Their Character; NOT what they choose to Show You>>>Reputation.0
This discussion has been closed.
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