You Don't Know Jack! Yes I am going to vent...

fteale

My two pet peeves on the forums: people getting bent out of shape over "starvation mode" happening the minute you eat too few calories, and the big one (drum roll please)...
People using "loosing" instead of "losing"
:laugh:

I have those, plus my major one - eat more protein to lose weight! Er, no. It's still going to be turned into fat if you are eating more than your muscles need.

36jessica

I myself have a meal replacement shake for breakfast and sometimes lunch, people don't like them here, they "teach you nothing" - I see it more as starting from scratch. It's like punishment. It's not easy to want to snack between meals because you've only had a shake and then try and find the healthy snack option, believe me!

It's a hard task this thing that some of us are doing. With over 100lbs still left to lose with the measly 23lbs out the way. I am looking at a looong drawn out process. I don't think I'll reach my deadline, but hey. I'm losing. I'm here. I am TRYING to teach myself and my 22 month old son better habits (I feed him healthier than i do myself, go figure). I work out. Or try to. at least 3 days a week.

I eat diet bars myself. It's easier for me to track my calories considering I'm out of the house all day. Considering we're all different, what we each need to do is find something that works for us individually and do it. Trial and error until you're at a place you like and can live with.

By the way, congrats on your 23lbs loss! No loss is measly. Enjoy your progress because you're doing great. For me, it's the process that's important -- long or short it may be -- not the finish line. Good luck!

36jessica

What ever happened to opinions being given when asked?

Give advice when asked.

Exactly!

Tangerine302

When someone asks why they are not losing weight or at a stand still I'm always interested in hearing what everyone has to say. I look at it as advice. Going back to look at the diary to see what it looks like and maybe someone might catch something that might be the reason why this is happening. If someone said it's because of this or that is just giving an opinion or trying to be helpful. It might be something they tried or what has worked for them when this has happened. Sometimes you don't notice what you maybe are doing right or wrong and it takes someone else to see it. I feel bad that the advice is being felt as being judged. I haven't been here that long, so I'm not sure on the posts you are referring to so sorry about that. Maybe I've been listening to Jillian too long. ha She tells it like it is no matter if you asked or not! hahaha But I'm someone that needs to be told that way when it comes to exercising! ha If she said are you tired honey? Just take a rest if you are, I probably would! She pushes me though and I like that! On the ripped in 30 she said something like you were the fool/sucker (something refered to that) that bought the dvd so do it!!! hahaha

I just want to congratulate everyone on how much weight has been lost so far! It's amazing looking at all of the before and after pictures, etc. We are all in this together whether it is trying to be healthier or lose weight or both. Support or advice is what I try to offer and I hope it comes off as doing just that. Again, I'm amazed at all the progress on MFP! Excellent job everyone. Even if it's just drinking more water, that's one step closer to being healthier!

pizzygirltx

you have made me smile on a day where i didn't think that was possible!

End6ame

I agree and disagree.

My first thought on this is that the forum is full of people who just want you to confirm what they are doing and/or want everything spoon fed to them so that they don’t have to actually have to think. This goes hand in hand with what Mayor_West (awesome name by the way) was saying; everyone will weigh in and the OP will pick whatever answer most closely resembles what they are already doing and/or the easiest advice given.

I am not an expert, and most people on here are not either, but I do consider myself knowledgeable in some areas based upon my own experience and research that I have done. As a result, my advice tends to differ from the conventional wisdom and only the truly dedicate usually follow my advice when I give it. My advice is usually recommending hard work, consistency and dedication. I also don’t coddle people regarding their slip-ups, lack of motivation etc. In all honesty, I think there is much more coddling that goes on in these forums than judgment and I personally believe that it is more detrimental to a person’s success.

As far as only giving advice when asked; I think that can be just as harmful. Example: Someone asks you how their hair looks while they are standing in the street about to get hit by a car. Do you just answer their question, or do you give additional advice? Something that someone doesn’t know to ask about, could be effecting their results.

LuckyLeprechaun

As far as only giving advice when asked; I think that can be just as harmful. Example: Someone asks you how their hair looks while they are standing in the street about to get hit by a car. Do you just answer their question, or do you give additional advice? Something that someone doesn’t know to ask about, could be effecting their results.

However, even when you offer advice, and do so kindly, they jump down your throat, accuse you of judging, go nutso. Now I understand that ketosis leads to irritability, but sheesh. :laugh:

The real reason I reply with information is because we have newbies all the time who would be distracted by the baloney unless a voice of reason speaks up. I was all ready to fall for the HCG scam, until a very knowledgable member pointed me in the right direction. So I try to speak up when I see people advocating imbalanced/dangerous/fad diets. I always point out that MFP works, it's free, why would you need anything else? Unfortunately, this results in my being accused of "judgment" and often a huge backlash.

Hyster1

VENT ON!!!!!I I could not agree with you more.

miasmom33

AMEN!!!!!

rishaskye

Amen!

miasmom33

Again, I'm seeing responses to this thread on "how" people are losing weight. Who cares whether it's atkins, low cal, etc. The important part is that they are losing the weight and becoming healthier. Not everyone is going to agree on how to get there. I just saw an episode of Dr. OZ and they had three different doctors/nutrisionists debating the new Dukan diet and of course they all had different ratings for it. All in all, Dr. Oz made a good point; it may not work for everyone, but the most important issue is that you are losing the weight which will make you feel better and perhaps it's just a jump start or a new lifestyle for you. Whatever it is, it's a step in a healthier direction.

Let's remember that a lot of people are on here for support and motivation, not judgment.

jknops2

Yes, guilty, and I get the point, but once in a while I can't help myself.

Yes, it is key to lose (or loose, if you prefer) weight and any way that you do it is great. Being overweight is a major health issue. Any diet or approach, if it works for you great, stick with it. We have an increasing obesity problem in the US and increasingly in the rest of the world. Just looking at the diabetes 2 prevalence and looming increase scares me. But losing weight is the first step, even more important is to keep your weight in a healthy range, and this is for most people much harder than losing their extra weight.

I think that any of these fad diets work in the short term, but long term you can't maintain them and if you revert back to you original diet, you gain all your weight back, and for many actually you gain more than you lost. That's why I posted the following a while ago, and got flamed by a bunch of people. And it really annoys me is that people with their fad diets get almost religious faith in it and start propagating useless advice, based on no evidence at al., So what's your opinion, not posting anything like this???



The magical Catpee Diet.

Ok, my opinion.

The only thing that matters for weight loss is CALORIES EATEN and CALORIES LOST. If you want to lose weight eat less and/or exercise more. The only reason that any of these diets work, is because they restrict how much you eat.

Most studies that I have seen show that if you have certain genetic makeup, being overweight strongly increases your risk for Diabetes type 2 and a number of other metabolic problems. Losing weight is the main factor that you can control that will lower your risk. 1/3 of all people are overweight, or obese in the US, and this is a major health problem.

Next, most of these diets like, Paleo, HCG, Atkins, are not healthy. None of them have any evidence that supports them. Again, they only work, because they restrict your calorie intake. Secondly, all of them are promoted by companies/individuals who are making money of you, by trying to convince you that they have the answer that solves your weight. If they help you lose weight, use them, BUT you do not need them. Using a website like this and figure out how many calories that you eat and how many that you lose, is all you need and can save you a lot of money and less health risk by following these diets.

Reading through some post and websites, it seems to me that these diets start with a tiny fact, and then they build this pyramid on that. Facts, like paleo people eat only meat, babies only drink milk, pregnant woman have hormones, are used and distorted. Like this: babies drink milk with lots of cholesterol and saturated fat, thus this is good and essential for babies, thus eating lots of saturated fat and cholesterol is good for all of us, etc. Let me make two up: some people drawn in water, hence too much water kills, hence any water will kill you, thus do not drink any water. Most cats are not overweight, hence drinking cat pee will make you lose weight and gain a normal weight.

Note that they all argue they have it figured out and try to convince you that they have the only key fact that’s important. However, the bottom line is test it, and none of them have ever been tested. Again, they restrict eating, and if this restricts calorie intake you will lose weight, nothing magical about it. And they are promoted, because people/companies make money of you by doing this.


My opinion, eat in moderation, control your weight and ignore all this blabber. There are some things that we do have good evidence for. Trans fat are bad, avoid them. Fiber is good, hence any way you get more fiber, like whole foods, fruits and vegetables is good for you. Too much saturated fat is not healthy, also for people with a normal weight. Eat saturated fat the in moderation, or avoid them. Fish oil is good for your health, eat more fish. But research these facts yourself from reputable sources, not websites or posts her by people/companies that are making money of you. Go to the USDA, Cancer society, Diebetis society, Mayo clinic, etc. And I am impressed with Wikipedia, almost all their information is a good summary of each topic.

Some people who follow these diets seem like reborn religious converts to me. It does not matter what you say their mind is made up, and they are fervent in trying to convert you to their faith/diet. Often they claim that there is a government/industry/Monsanto conspiracy out there that has brainwashed all of us, and that they have found a leader/diet that has lead them out of this wilderness. Well if it helps them lose weight, good for them, but remember you do not need this. CALORIES IN versus CALORIES OUT, eat less or exercise more that’s the only thing that matters for weight loss.

anubis609

Wait...you're bashing on bashers that bash misinformed and sometimes unreasonable threads, yet you don't want to advocate bashing, but invite it onto your own anti-bash bashing topic?



Can't we just agree that people only know what they know as it applies to what they do for themselves, and believe in the power of judgmental fitness aficionados to do what they will and try to provide as much of their advice as they can? And also believe that the same people asking the topical question have beliefs just as strongly opinionated as anyone else's?

Or in other words:

?

It works for me.

yogajan

Excellent post with so much honesty. Thank you.

I would like to add my .02 in a means of validating what you said. In my profession, I constantly read medical and scientific literature and have added weight loss to what I search everyday. I only look at peer reviewed articles in respected journals and not what someone spouts just to sell a book or make money off of useless merchandise of any kind.

From all of that reading, it is clear that THERE IS NO ONE WAY TO LOSE WEIGHT AND TO BE HEALTHY AND FIT ((caps intended for emphasis) that works for the same for everyone. If it was that simple, we would all be doing it. So I don't pay any attention to any of the so-called experts who post here. Everyone is different, has a different brain, metabolism, genetics, physiology, environment and psychology. The most anyone can expect of these forums is to read what worked for that person. And then, we need to hope they were being truthful.

In my professional practice, I have seen failures and deaths from gastric surgery, massive obesity and people with body dysmorphic syndrome (weigh 85 pounds and see an obese person in the mirror) and am so tired of people passing judgment when they have no idea of what is going on with an individual.

Support and encouragement is what we need and I read the forums for that. Everything else is just opinion.

dj_stevie_c

I have to say with the majority of your post I agree. But I also have to say there are loads of sensible supportive people here, my mindset is that you'll only get it right when you want to get it right, I yo-yo all the time and I hate it, that said I've spent most of my life if Gyms, and about half of it trying to eat sensibly (the other half ruins the good half) what I've learned I'll try to help people with if I see the need or if they ask.

Encouragement, Knowledge, Positivity.

If people are down on others and 'calling them out' then it just isn't going to work, everyone isn't Jillian Michaels. Most of us are sensible creatures, eat more salad, fruit, Veg, lean meats, healthy fats and exercise plenty, things will improve, don't and things won't. That's about the be all and end all, it isn't rocket science, there are no short cuts, but everyone is different, make a start and then tailor to your own needs, there are a lot of people who will lie to themselves and shout that they are doing everything right, but on the other hand there are also people who may not quite understand and need a bit of help. What we don't need are nutrition/exercise nazi's, that doesn't help anyone.

Losingitin2011

The only part of that I even remotely disagree with is the calling out.

I sincerely wonder if people would stop insisting on hurting themselves if there were more consequences. As it stands right now, at least in the U.S., it is almost encouraged to become so unhealthy that you can't function. What happened?

Marcus_E

I think this is an excellent post and actually feel that MFP is a good source of information. Some people offer advice and guidance and whilst in typing world - this may come across as criticizing as naturally you can not express tone in text and this can cause the occasionally misread.

The other day I completed my diary and one person responded with the fact that I was always under my calorie intake and I really need to focus on it. Ok, they were offering some guidance without knowing what my journey entails, I took it as advice and was something to be aware of when my journey continues.

I'm here to learn and make changes gradually before really venturing into the core aspect of losing 4stone. You can't start without learning and I believe that if you read people's comments and suggestions, as human beings with the ability to choose to ignore them, listen to them, or understand them. If there's a comment I'm not too sure about, I repeat it in my head a few times as if I had said it to someone and use different tones.. We hear and read what we want to.

I appreciate that there are some that will criticize, but as a majority; we do not all claim to be experts, but we try to help, guide and advise to the best of our knowledge - support isn't always about the slap on the back and high fives all the time, practical criticism (or critique) can be invaluable to others. But as a whole, I do agree with your comment..

As the old saying goes; "if you haven't got something nice to say, then don't say it at all" - for those that disagree, put yourself in a position where you feel you are achieving something and then someone criticizes you because (in their opinion) you aren't doing it right!!! - not nice really, is it!!!!

Elle408

Just gonna add another Amen sister to this!

I managed perfectly well for 18 months on my own and lost 35lbs without binging, without guilt and without second guessing myself. I joined MFP 6 months ago to help me lose the last 15, primarily just wanting the calorie counter and food database. In fact, for the first six weeks I didn't even know there was a community. I joined the boards and have to admit that they send me crazy, I feel like a failure on a daily basis, I feel like I'm sabotaging my own success by getting caught up in all of the numbers obsession and holier than thou food diary critics and 'don't eat that' attitudes. I don't feel like I can trust my own judgement any more and as a result i'm finding mainanence a lot harder than it probably should be.

I keep having to go on 'MFP breaks' to gain some clarity and focus on what works for me, not what I should or shouldn't be doing. I find as soon as I come back to the boards I start worrying about whether I can justify eating a cookie as it takes my sugar over, which is absolute rubbish!

I have met some amazing people on here who I do find supportive and I'm thankful that they're part of my MFP family, but the rest of it I could do without!

grammymelPolly

Hear Hear, well said I need you on my team. This is not a DIET it is learning to eath healthy and a have a new lifestyle not about fussing with others. We all are here for the same reason to encourage each other and share recipes and tips and not judge one another. No matter if we have tried and failed before we are at least trying again and that's what counts, we don't give up.

phinners

I understand at this point that I must have some sick attraction to a train wreck because for some insane reason I continue to read the forums....No matter how it upsets me.

I have never seen so many EXPERTS in my life STRUGGLE WITH WEIGHT ISSUES!

We all have a journey and I know it is shocking but we are not stupid...I am so tired and frustrated. A low carb program and someone has to go in and JUDGE IT! A high carb and SOMEONE DOES THE SAME.

Fad diets, rad diets, not enough veggies, too many, keep your calories nope don't...judge judge judge judge judge judge....What ever happened to opinions being given when asked?

I read a post of a girl who believed she failed over eating a muffin..A FREAKING MUFFIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.and someone responded with your calories are too low...you need healthy calories....WTH!!!!!! how about honey we all go a little insane while trying to loose weight....

Be informative, not judgmental...Be kind not rude....Give advice when asked...these are not hard concepts....DON'T JUDGE is not a hard thing to grasp.....


Here is the truth...if you do not change your eating habits NO MATTER WHAT DIET, low carb, high carb, low fat, high fat, etc etc etc you WILL GAIN IT BACK...We are not dumb, we get it......


I lost 10 pounds so I know what I am doing???? Really......COME ON! I have lost 65 and still don't have a clue...

I am so tired of reading people having to defend what they are doing....WE ARE ALL DOING THIS AT THE SAME TIME...your way my way DOES IT MATTER???? ARE YOU EFFECTED?????

The numbers do not lie....and we are able to give some sound advice without judgement....

If we screw up loosing weight, who suffers? Us, not you..There is enough people in our lives not wanting us to get healthy, not supporting our success does it have to be here too?

I have no doubt that is not what MFP was built for.....

Am I loosing the weight wrong? Probably.....but I am loosing....How did you learn? trial and error....Give some advice, don't bash....Be helpful not no it alls...Support your fellow people not rude....


Loosing weight and getting healthy will be the hardest thing any of us EVER do...whether you have 5 pounds or 500... You have to weed through the crap that is the weight loss industry..Yes an industry worth a lot of money....and find your own truths.. What works for you....When getting healthy we judge ourselves enough, no help needed there....we do not like what we see enough, no need to rub it in...Get obsessed enough, no need to make us second guess our own beliefs....

Getting past the crap that is the industry and loosing the weight and getting healthy will become your biggest accomplishment. As parents it will show our kids they can do anything. As people it will inspire others to make changes too. As individuals we will gain a confidence beyond any schooling or measure....

No matter how you are loosing your weight. Slow, fast, fad, not fad, right or wrong, you are doing it. Be proud. Do not tolerate being bullied.

I have seen more bully's on this site then in my kids school....We all have a right to be here. We have a need to learn and we all have the ability to help.....

Yep go ahead bash what I wrote, tell me I am wrong..then go look at the posts everywhere...Even on a computer judgement hurts....Low carbers??? GO YOU. Healthy eaters???? WOOHOOO you can do it..... body builders???? I am in awe of your dedication and read your information..... Big guys and gals not so big anymore???? Thank you because you give me hope.....We are all students and teachers in life, and our success depends on our souls....

I think I just fell in love with you!!

phinners

My two pet peeves on the forums: people getting bent out of shape over "starvation mode" happening the minute you eat too few calories, and the big one (drum roll please)...
People using "loosing" instead of "losing"
:laugh:

And weighting in. Why do I always see that misspelled. It's WEIGHING in.

StevLL

To no scientific road map post:

I have no problems with this website it is awesome. Yes there are folks on the threads that can be over zealous in their retorts or stubbornly adhere to their beliefs as the only way. The fact is there is no scientific road map to this journey. If there was we would not need this site, or the billions of weightloss guru's/snakeoil salespeople out there taking our money. Weight loss issues are a personal battle and journey and like any addiction or physical ailment it requires the support of those that have been through it, or are going through it to understand one another and that is where this site is incredible. Some folks weight issues are from physical inbalances, others from addiction, still others from learned behavior and yet others from emotional distress. I don't like some of the poster's who are insensitive, rigid or mean in their posts, but in all communities in the physical or online there is a mix of folks some good some not so much. I personally disagree that a person that has lost weight is not an expert. they most certainly are for their journey and I believe they have someting to share with me that just may be the advice or idea I need to jump start my journey or help me become even more successful. If you've successfully lost weight, ya you get to claim some expert status, because the proof is in the results. Be nice about it and follow your mom's advice. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. That being said don't sugar coat it either, If a person keeps getting on and complainiing that they don't understand why they can't lose and you see their diary and it's under calorie, but it's all fat's and sugars and no clean food or water, well are we doing that person any good if we are not rigorously honest? Keep it real, keep it nice, keep it as non-judgmental as possible, but please keep coming back with an open mind and a willingness to share and be open to new poosibilities. The only thing I'd change about this site,......Not a damn thing!!!

korgscrew

Love this! Great stuff!

You didn't mention starvation mode though XD gets right on my wits when I read people saying it's a myth... No!! It's not a myth!!

Bout time someone posted this!! Hurrah!!

jcl1981

i agree with you about most of your post. I know personally when i make a post or respond i dont try to have a "do it my way or fail attitude" i just try to say this is what worked for me, maybe it will for you. I know i am guilty of running to the boards with a concern, but i find that i get a wide variety of information. Most of it helps me but i wont stress if i have a muffin. And i shouldnt be made to feel like a bad person because i dont know something or everything about weight loss. I liked that your post was so honest and i hope it encourages people to be a little more thoughtful in their writing. I can say though that despite what other members tell me, i know my own body and that is the most important road to health. I believe that listening to your body's messages are what help you make healthy decisions. thank you again for putting it all out there!

sushisuzi2

I love this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(I searched for "breakfast jack" and this came up, LMAO)

ladybug2020

Just gonna add another Amen sister to this!

I managed perfectly well for 18 months on my own and lost 35lbs without binging, without guilt and without second guessing myself. I joined MFP 6 months ago to help me lose the last 15, primarily just wanting the calorie counter and food database. In fact, for the first six weeks I didn't even know there was a community. I joined the boards and have to admit that they send me crazy, I feel like a failure on a daily basis, I feel like I'm sabotaging my own success by getting caught up in all of the numbers obsession and holier than thou food diary critics and 'don't eat that' attitudes. I don't feel like I can trust my own judgement any more and as a result i'm finding mainanence a lot harder than it probably should be.

I keep having to go on 'MFP breaks' to gain some clarity and focus on what works for me, not what I should or shouldn't be doing. I find as soon as I come back to the boards I start worrying about whether I can justify eating a cookie as it takes my sugar over, which is absolute rubbish!

I have met some amazing people on here who I do find supportive and I'm thankful that they're part of my MFP family, but the rest of it I could do without!

Well said, I feel the same at times reading the boards