this article ticks me off

kklindsey

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/yoni-freedhoff/smoking-obesity_b_879894.html

So I can choose to smoke and easily quit if I choose to but I can't choose to be fat and easily quit if I choose to? Sorry, I call bullsh*t. I smoke and I was obese. It took lots of hard work to get thin and I have yet to be able to apply those skills to stopping smoking but I could if I wanted it badly enough. I get really tired of hearing that being overweight is not your fault. There are a very few people who have medical conditions that cause them to be overweight. For the vast majority of us, myself included, it is simply a matter of overeating. Solving that problem isn't simple at all but it is still just overeating.

AlexzKT

I agree with you 100%.

It's nearly always lifestyle choices.

jenilla1

Absolutely. Stop giving people excuses for bad behavior. :flowerforyou:

VeganGal84

What about this entire paragraph?

"Genetics, co-morbid medical conditions, psychology, pace of life, socio-economics, environmental obesogens, governmental failings in the provision of evidence-based nutrition and energy balance/caloric information, the unregulated self-help quackery of the commercial weight management programs, the confusion and contradictions of over 60,000 diet books, glossy magazines that promote quick fixes, reality television that promotes inane, non-sustainable and frankly dangerous treatment, crop subsidies that allow highly processed, hyperpalatable, hypercalorific foods to be sold for pennies, front-of-package labeling that confer health-halos to junk food, the demise of the family meal and the fall of cooking, predatory advertising targeting adults and children alike, a culture that promotes the provision of food at every event however small, super-sizing of restaurant portions, lack of caloric information at point of sale, medications which cause weight gain, juice and chocolate milk being promoted as healthy choices, public health messaging that wrongly suggests exercise is sufficient to "balance" calories consumed, epigenetic changes that occur in the womb, eating as a defense or a reaction to emotional, physical or sexual abuse....."

I think that there are some pretty valid points made in that article. I also believe that we should only ever speak for OURSELVES.

Personally, I got fat because I overate and didn't exercise... and I did those things because of severe depression.

Is overeating and inactivity my fault? Absolutely. Is depression my fault? No, not at all.

There are many reasons that people get overweight and obese, and there are also many people who are genuinely healthy at every size.

I'm an ex-smoker and an ex-fattie, too. I don't judge those who aren't where I'm at now, just because I chose to quit smoking and to lose weight.

hstallings13

I agree with you. Course I'm taking getting the weight off before I try to quit smoking. Baby steps....baby steps. Could have something to do with smoking being legal and murder not being...lol...just kidding. But I do have to find another way to deal with stress(other than turning to food) to quit smoking, it's not nearly as easy as so many people think. I'm finding changing my eating habits and adding in more working out to be easier to do than to just lay down my smokes.

kklindsey

What about this entire paragraph?

"Genetics, co-morbid medical conditions, psychology, pace of life, socio-economics, environmental obesogens, governmental failings in the provision of evidence-based nutrition and energy balance/caloric information, the unregulated self-help quackery of the commercial weight management programs, the confusion and contradictions of over 60,000 diet books, glossy magazines that promote quick fixes, reality television that promotes inane, non-sustainable and frankly dangerous treatment, crop subsidies that allow highly processed, hyperpalatable, hypercalorific foods to be sold for pennies, front-of-package labeling that confer health-halos to junk food, the demise of the family meal and the fall of cooking, predatory advertising targeting adults and children alike, a culture that promotes the provision of food at every event however small, super-sizing of restaurant portions, lack of caloric information at point of sale, medications which cause weight gain, juice and chocolate milk being promoted as healthy choices, public health messaging that wrongly suggests exercise is sufficient to "balance" calories consumed, epigenetic changes that occur in the womb, eating as a defense or a reaction to emotional, physical or sexual abuse....."

I think that there are some pretty valid points made in that article. I also believe that we should only ever speak for OURSELVES.

Personally, I got fat because I overate and didn't exercise... and I did those things because of severe depression.

Is overeating and inactivity my fault? Absolutely. Is depression my fault? No, not at all.

There are many reasons that people get overweight and obese, and there are also many people who are genuinely healthy at every size.

I'm an ex-smoker and an ex-fattie, too. I don't judge those who aren't where I'm at now, just because I chose to quit smoking and to lose weight.

I read the entire article, I posted it. I am not judging anyone. I am expressing my opinion. That can be done without it meaning I am judging anyone. I said some people have medical conditions that cause them to gain weight. Guess what, I suffered depression for years which is why I gained weight. My point is that obesity has become such an epidemic that people think there must be some reason out of everyone's control that is causing it. There is. too much food.

Hodar

I smoked, that's 100% my fault. I was weak, I got addicted, and I smoked a pack of Marlbaro's a day for many years. I quit, cold turkey. The withdrawl was miserable - but I turned the withdrawl symptoms into an internal RAGE for putting myself - intentionally, and stupidly in this situation. I made a lifestyle change, and quickly got into the best shape of my life, while quitting smoking at the same time.

Now, 25 years have passed; and due to laziness and eating whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted - I gained over 125 lbs. This is my fault, it's not the fault of McDonalds (whom I've patronized more than a few times), it's not the fault of M&M/Mars Corp (despite the fact that I've eaten hundreds of candy bars) - it's *my* fault.

I got myself into this situation - and I will get myself out.

What is it with American culture, and the complete rejection of the most basic freedom we have, "Personal Responsibility"?

Avalonis

Tell it like it is, baby.

People try to use everything as an excuse to not do the things they want to do, when the truth of the matter is, in the VAST majority of cases people just lack the willpower to change.

Suck it up, stop using life as a crutch. Almost EVERYONE can change. Most people just lack the dedication to make it happen.

Yes, Genetics determine how easily you will lose weight, and how well you store it. All that means is some people get to be thin for free. The rest of us need to bust our *kitten* for it.

Lifes not fair. Suck it up.

Just for the record... I understand lack of motivation because of depression. I STILL suffer from depression... but sometimes you have to bite through it and keep going, even when you don't want to. Thats what life is all about.

cjsgrimlin

Absolutely, its' as easy as putting the fork down, which in itself is hard sometimes!

craig1768

IMHO, It isn't just over eating. Its not being active also. Watching TV for 3 hours a day with a beer in your hand is the easy path, and quite common. 'When do I have the time to exercise?' The answer is never when FaceBook and Wheel of Fortune are the priority.

I don't think most people are willing to commit to being active. What? I have to do something 3 to 5 times a week... for... life? When you stop and think about where you can reclaim 30 minutes of your life back a day, it doesn't take long to find it.

To comment on the article, its funny. I know a ton of people who have 'never been able to lose weight' (mainly because of their life style)... but they get stomach surgery... poof 50lbs in a year. If you want to claim its genetics, thats fine. But saying 'I am not going to try to be healthy, eat right, and exercise' because of my poor genetics .... seriously?

Kind of a rant... sorry in advance, I am with you though.

Avalonis

What is it with American culture, and the complete rejection of the most basic freedom we have, "Personal Responsibility"?

I so agree. People need to learn control. Our government and doctors and society should not be treating us like children. Personal responsibility! Learn some, people!

ritafay2011

I have under active tyroid problems but on meds for this and I am applying myself in losing all the weight I gained.. And yes I ate it on!!! Now it's gotta go!!!!!

manny_bee

i agree with you!

adrian_indy

It's a little more complicated than that. Being an over eater is an evolutionary trait that in times past has kept us alive. Our bodies demand us to eat like pigs because in the old days, we never knew when our next meal was going to be. The problem is, now we do not live in feast or famine conditions, we live in feast or feast bigger conditions. There is a reason you don't see over weight epedemics in third world countries, and trust me, they over eat when they get the chance, it's just not that often. Then you have to look at our foods. The cheapest, easiest foods to prepare of fast food and finer dining is high calorie, often low quality. Because of worsening economic conditions, what used to be a single income house where one parent had time to home cook quality meals has turned into quick meals and fast food.

Then you have to look at the genetic aspect of it. i have always had the tendency to be a larger person. Even in the army, when I was ran, marched and PTed to death, even though I also lifted weights, I still had to watch what I ate or I would gain weight. Buddies that I had could hardly work out and eat a box of cookies with no weight gain, and do it regularly.

Now I'm not saying personal responsibility don't play a big part in obesity, it does. It's why I am here. But understanding the the battle you are up against is crucial for success, and telling people that they are still fat is simply because they made bad choices in a gross over-simplification of the issue. Genetics and chemical make up are so different in people that some people can do cocaine casually for years and just quit, no big deal. Some try it once and are hooked for life. Knowing that people are predisposed for certain behaviors whether gentically or from envirmental factors such as upbringing helps us along.

Sort of like my drinking. I binged drank for years, and just stopped one day. Cold turkey. Never had a problem with it. Smoking on the other hand, really had it's hooks into me. Finally quit after years of yo-yo quitting about 3 years ago.

kimmerroze

I totally agree.

BUT I also agree that it is REALLY HARD. Take those for example that ate the pounds on(myself included) you don't need a guide book on how to eat... its simple place in mouth chew and swallow. lol but to lose weight, many don't realize that there are formulas, there is such thing as maintainence calories, or deficit, or more effective ways to exercise, or what healthy food is. people are uneducated. and that is SUPER dangerous.

Before I started MFP I thought that I had to cut out all dessert, I couldn't ever eat anythign that I wanted, I had to exercise, and exercise HARD and that was the only way to lose weight. Learning from my mother that Atkins WW and jenny craig don't work, because I saw my mother fail at them.

So while it is my own fault that I put on weight, noone elses, not my genetics, regardless of howmuch I like to blame them, obesity is a direct consequence of people being uneducated. AND quite frankly, the diet industry plays off of the uneducated masses, that would be why it is a 300million dollar industry. Greedy heartless Bas**rds!:devil: :mad:

kklindsey

I have under active tyroid problems but on meds for this and I am applying myself in losing all the weight I gained.. And yes I ate it on!!! Now it's gotta go!!!!!

You are my hero for today! You have one of the few "excuses" for weight gain and the one that makes it TERRIBLY hard to lose but you are stepping up to the plate and taking control of your life, you go girl!

craig1768

I don't disagree that some people have a difficult time with weight. I don't have a problem with people who don't want to eat right or make exercise a priority, but for most they use excuses instead of just stating that they aren't commited to changing their lifestyle. Don't want to commit? Okay, but don't tell me your relatives a big boned, therefore you are big boned and there is nothing that you can do to help that.

People state that economic conditions are the root cause of eating crap... I don't know that I fully agree with that statement. A box of heartyman uber high calorie meal is about the cost of a bag of apples. A six dollar Big Mac meal? Thats a head of lettuce, 2 cucumbers, a pepper, and a small container of dressing. Its about choices. I agree that some form of knowledge may be required to make good food choices, but at the end of the day don't we all have a pretty good idea that fast food isn't generally the most healthy food out there?

The entry point for that knowledge is pretty low. Ask a friend for advice? Maybe use MFP as a resource? Read a health magazine? Hell, get the calorie count pamphlet from Mac Donalds.

People with a medical condition that makes it challenging to lose weight are a small minority of the people on this planet.

blanblu

>People with a medical condition that makes it challenging to lose weight are a small minority of the people on this planet.

agreed... and even amongst these scenarios ... it remains to be seen whether or not these conditions were self-inflicted by the individual's poor diet... heart disease, diabetes, insulin-resistance only a few that come to mind... the relevance of psychological conditions should be examined way more closely in these situations... with the obesity problem in the USA nearly being the norm, most people could foolishly attribute the cause to "general" depression... and that would certainly not be the case...

TK421NotAtPost

I don't mean to discount personal accountability and I completely disagree with the line of thinking where smoking is a singular behavior but obesity is not, but how does one explain the meteoric rise in obesity compared to previous decades? It's obvious your surroundings DO play a major role. Telling a morbidly obese person to stop making excuses and eat less is akin to telling a hopeless alcoholic to stop drinking.

kklindsey

I don't mean to discount personal accountability and I completely disagree with the line of thinking where smoking is a singular behavior but obesity is not, but how does one explain the meteoric rise in obesity compared to previous decades? It's obvious your surroundings DO play a major role. Telling a morbidly obese person to stop making excuses and eat less is akin to telling a hopeless alcoholic to stop drinking.

I dont think it is the same thing, that is why the article irks me. I think overeating for most people is not an addiction in the sense that alcohol, drugs, nicotine is. Your body is meant to eat food, it isn't meant to smoke, drink or do drugs. The meteoric rise in obesity is due to the vast amount of quick, easy, fattening food that is available these days and the lifestyles that allow us to sit still more than we move. Doesn't mean that you don't have control over it. If I wanted to quit smoking as badly as I wanted to lose weight I WOULD be a non-smoker right now. I refuse to say I "can't" quit smoking. I can, I obvously continue to choose not to.

The envinronment argument also works both ways. Can you even turn a corner these days without hearing about both the obesity epidemic and cures for it? If everyone is aware of it then how can they be a victim of the environment except by choice?

debbiequack

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/yoni-freedhoff/smoking-obesity_b_879894.html

So I can choose to smoke and easily quit if I choose to but I can't choose to be fat and easily quit if I choose to? Sorry, I call bullsh*t. I smoke and I was obese. It took lots of hard work to get thin and I have yet to be able to apply those skills to stopping smoking but I could if I wanted it badly enough. I get really tired of hearing that being overweight is not your fault. There are a very few people who have medical conditions that cause them to be overweight. For the vast majority of us, myself included, it is simply a matter of overeating. Solving that problem isn't simple at all but it is still just overeating.

So how do you explain the "twins reared apart" studies, where they take identical twins who have been adopted away at birth, and compare them years later to find that their body shapes are very similar EVEN WHEN RAISED BY DIFFERENT PARENTS?

Just curious. I agree that choices are immensely important, but we all know people who eat crappy and are thin no matter what. I can make good choices (and am doing so) and impact my weight, but the fact is, it's probably a little harder for me to do so, than your average Joe(leen).

We inherit risks (say, for diabetes) and then our choices affect how much these vulnerabilites impact us. In the case of childhood diabetes, I would be hard pressed to blame a child for this. Again, diabetes can be MANAGED with good choices, but a diabetic has to work harder than the average Joe to maintain good health.

My ten cents...

Best,

Debbie

debbiequack

People state that economic conditions are the root cause of eating crap... I don't know that I fully agree with that statement. A box of heartyman uber high calorie meal is about the cost of a bag of apples. A six dollar Big Mac meal? Thats a head of lettuce, 2 cucumbers, a pepper, and a small container of dressing. Its about choices. I agree that some form of knowledge may be required to make good food choices, but at the end of the day don't we all have a pretty good idea that fast food isn't generally the most healthy food out there? People with a medical condition that makes it challenging to lose weight are a small minority of the people on this planet.

There was an article recently (in Houston) about how it wasn't economically feasible for the larger grocery stories to open up shop in the poor neighborhoods. Because a lot of poor people don't have reliable transportation, they were feeding their kids from the McDonald's, or 7-11 down the street. The Mayor was offering financial incentives for grocery stores and farmer's markets to move into the area. I don't think this is that uncommon in poverty stricken areas in the US.

clarech

I agree with you that society does try to give people excuses for living unhealthy life styles but i dont agree with comparing obesity to drinking or smoking! I had a very bad drink problem and to give up I had to remove myself from places and situations where I was around alcohol which wasnt easy but doable as you don't need alcohol to live (even though it felt like it at the time). Where as you need food to live so you can't just remove yourself from it so its much harder to change that.

I got to the state I am by being greedy and lazy no other reason but it is bloody hard to change a habit of a life time so I can see wjy people would rather just use an excuse.

kklindsey

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/yoni-freedhoff/smoking-obesity_b_879894.html

So I can choose to smoke and easily quit if I choose to but I can't choose to be fat and easily quit if I choose to? Sorry, I call bullsh*t. I smoke and I was obese. It took lots of hard work to get thin and I have yet to be able to apply those skills to stopping smoking but I could if I wanted it badly enough. I get really tired of hearing that being overweight is not your fault. There are a very few people who have medical conditions that cause them to be overweight. For the vast majority of us, myself included, it is simply a matter of overeating. Solving that problem isn't simple at all but it is still just overeating.

So how do you explain the "twins reared apart" studies, where they take identical twins who have been adopted away at birth, and compare them years later to find that their body shapes are very similar EVEN WHEN RAISED BY DIFFERENT PARENTS?

Just curious. I agree that choices are immensely important, but we all know people who eat crappy and are thin no matter what. I can make good choices (and am doing so) and impact my weight, but the fact is, it's probably a little harder for me to do so, than your average Joe(leen).

We inherit risks (say, for diabetes) and then our choices affect how much these vulnerabilites impact us. In the case of childhood diabetes, I would be hard pressed to blame a child for this. Again, diabetes can be MANAGED with good choices, but a diabetic has to work harder than the average Joe to maintain good health.

My ten cents...

Best,

Debbie

I agree there are always exceptions but they are the minority, not the majority. I would never blame a child for diabetes? Where on earth did we get to children with diabetes? My husband has diabetes and if you ask him he will tell you, he eats too much and moves too little. My stepfather has diabetes and he took the diabetic diet and followed it RELIGIOUSLY and lo and behold, he no longer needs medications. But he will always be a diabetic and if he were to eat badly again, he would need medication again. Once you have had a weight problem of a significant amount, you are always going to have to manage your food and be careful of your choices but it is still for almost all overweight people, about choices and totally within their control. again, my opinion, for whatever it is worth.

TK421NotAtPost

The envinronment argument also works both ways. Can you even turn a corner these days without hearing about both the obesity epidemic and cures for it? If everyone is aware of it then how can they be a victim of the environment except by choice?

Well the dynamics between these two forces are completely different. Yes, we are exposed to things that make us fat as well as things that keep us thin, but in our society which is obsessed with convenience thanks to its fast pace and various other factors, we are constantly pushed toward eating poorly. Environmental forces that cause weight loss, on the other hand, require initiative on our parts.... completely different dynamic. Again, not saying that choice doesn't exist. Just stating what types of environmental forces are at work in today's society.

To give another example, the smoking rate in South Korea is astronomically high. What is the dynamic behind this? Compulsory military service. 99.99% of the young adults finish their compulsory service from the miliary with a nicotine dependency. Do they have a choice in this matter? Technically yes... if they want to be an outcast and not smoke, they can do so. But you cannot deny the strong environmental forces at work here..... and like you said, we are talking about something our bodies aren't even meant to consume. Of course, this is an extreme example and not a perfect analogy...but just saying that environment plays a strong factor....and it takes initiative on the individual to go against the environmental tide in which they were placed. Hmm...maybe we are actually in agreement here...

kklindsey

I agree with you that society does try to give people excuses for living unhealthy life styles but i dont agree with comparing obesity to drinking or smoking! I had a very bad drink problem and to give up I had to remove myself from places and situations where I was around alcohol which wasnt easy but doable as you don't need alcohol to live (even though it felt like it at the time). Where as you need food to live so you can't just remove yourself from it so its much harder to change that.

I got to the state I am by being greedy and lazy no other reason but it is bloody hard to change a habit of a life time so I can see wjy people would rather just use an excuse.

exactly, you do not need cigarettes or alcohol to live so you can(if you can) quit them forever. Food you can't quit and it is tough to control it without the option of just cutting it out of your life. I still struggle when I am out of my element. Put me at a county fair, a good restaurant, a family dinner over the holidays and I have to work way harder to do the right thing. At home I control the food available and make my environment the way I want it but I will always be the one at the party having more carrots and cucumbers off the relish tray and if I do have dessert it is one bite of everything that interests me. And most of the overweight people at the party look at me like I am crazy, then point out my dessert plate to everyone else and say "no wonder she's so skinny". Which is really funny because I am NOT skinny at 5'3" and 141lbs, I am not fat, but certainly not skinny.

Eats_With_A_Fist

I tell ya what's straight up crazy....when I was in my early 20's, I laid down both drug and alcohol addiction. It took me until I was almost 30 to quit smoking. All cold turkey. Now, I understand how you can have moderation with those two things. I can smoke a cigar with some friends and not be climbing the walls looking for nicotine. I can have a few beers and not even come close to wanting to get drunk. Food though....it's sneaky. I never expected to have a hard time saying no to a desire that is so basic.

You get used to being fat and then you wake up one day and go "Holy crap I literally weigh more than 2, full-grown people! When did that happen!" Then you decide to fight it and go to work at an office like the one I'm in. I work in an office where they keep the fridge stocked with ice cream, soda etc. for the employees. Imagine wanting something you're used to eating whenever you want for a couple of decades and then trying to tell yourself no. It's straight up hard to do.

Either way though, no matter what the vice is, it is all about will power for the biggest chunk of us. People with legit medical reasons to be overweight or to use medication, or whatever you want to insert here, aren't the ones who generate statistics of epidemic proportions. It's the rest of us that do. There are a million excuses for everything, we just gotta get to that point where we quit relying on them to help us take the easy way out.

Hollycat

What the ...?

Sorry. I can't respond. I'm just too angry. Thank you for perpetuating the myth that fat people are just lazy and that they are at fault. [note sarcasm]. I never thought I'd see it on this forum. That beats all.

Hollycat
:flowerforyou:

Nana_Anne

Unfortunatly I am one of those with a medical condition that started with a head injury and seizures and in bed for 2-5 years then a walker and back surgery. BUT I did not not not give up!!!! Here is the thing IMHO about smokeing. I was an alcoholic and addict who smoked and was a sugar junky. I had to start with the first thing and that was getting sober. (over 20 years now) the smoking came over my heart. My lungs were fine but I found the pain in my chest was from my heart over working and like any muscle it gets bigger. So an enlarged heart I could not change with out a heart transplant or quit smoking with the chance it would reverse some which praise God it has! woohooo. Now 4 years after being smoke free I can walk some again and I can work on my weight. NONE of this happens overnight. NONE! You know yourself better then anyone here along with your doctors. This is all about YOUR choices not mine! I know you can make the right choices and in the time line you can do this in. The first step is being honest with yourself and to me just being here and posting as part of the community is a big step.

Good Movie to watch is "Super Size Me"

ElaKuz

I do believe that refined carbohydrates are as addicitive as alcohol and cigarettes...

They combine with emotional instability to create serious cravings that are VERY difficult to fight off...

Its only once I realized this that I started to serious limit my intake of refiend carbs and cut myself some slack when I craved foods that I deemed to be bad...

Without that understanding, it very easy for someone who has dieted their whole lives to fall into the trap that since they've failed so may times, since they are to weak to walk away from the cravings... it places all the blame on them when really the break down of refined carbs and the messages it send to the crave centre of your brain is NOT something you control.

It was far easier for me to say no to these cravings once I understood them, but even then I had to rely heavily on good friends who listened to me cry and watched me struggle as I fought my addiction to carbs.

Its not as easy as just shut up and do it'.
And this is coming from someone who finally has and is.
And the message that either you shut-up and do it or you're just making excuses pushes those that haven't gotten there further into the cycle of 'I'm just to weak to do this... pass the pizza'

kklindsey

The envinronment argument also works both ways. Can you even turn a corner these days without hearing about both the obesity epidemic and cures for it? If everyone is aware of it then how can they be a victim of the environment except by choice?

Well the dynamics between these two forces are completely different. Yes, we are exposed to things that make us fat as well as things that keep us thin, but in our society which is obsessed with convenience thanks to its fast pace and various other factors, we are constantly pushed toward eating poorly. Environmental forces that cause weight loss, on the other hand, require initiative on our parts.... completely different dynamic. Again, not saying that choice doesn't exist. Just stating what types of environmental forces are at work in today's society.

To give another example, the smoking rate in South Korea is astronomically high. What is the dynamic behind this? Compulsory military service. 99.99% of the young adults finish their compulsory service from the miliary with a nicotine dependency. Do they have a choice in this matter? Technically yes... if they want to be an outcast and not smoke, they can do so. But you cannot deny the strong environmental forces at work here..... and like you said, we are talking about something our bodies aren't even meant to consume. Of course, this is an extreme example and not a perfect analogy...but just saying that environment plays a strong factor....and it takes initiative on the individual to go against the environmental tide in which they were placed. Hmm...maybe we are actually in agreement here...

LOL! I think we are. I never ever ever said it was easy. It is totally freaking HARD but it is always your choice unless someone is tying you down and force feeding you Big Macs. Example: My husband drives truck. Occasionally I go with him. The only places he stops are truck stops and fast food. I happen to LOVE truck stop and fast food food. You will see me in the truckstop cruising the aisles, reading labels, searching for fresh fruit and protein bars and if I have no other choice grabbing a lunchable because it is portion control and healthier than some of the other choices. I have to work a lot harder to eat better in that environment but when I really want to I do.