this article ticks me off

candistyx

http://youtu.be/_6-A0iHSdcA

I found this documentary interesting in terms of blame.
I also think that ...well, people should not be so quick to get angry at individuals for responding predictably to their environment. Doesn't mean its an excuse, but environment matters. We'd change more lives by changing the environment (advertising, culture etc) than growling at people about "personal responsibility".

A lot of the growling about personal responsibility seems to come from two camps. The first is the kind that wants to eat at mcdonalds and is frightened of some dystopian future where they're forced at gun point to eat salads. The second is the person who is constantly worn out from the force of will that it takes to resist temptation and as such resents people who didn't put in that much effort. The first... is just selfish, the second would be as much better off in a world with reduced temptation than the one they're forced to contend with.

ElaKuz

http://youtu.be/_6-A0iHSdcA

I found this documentary interesting in terms of blame.
I also think that ...well, people should not be so quick to get angry at individuals for responding predictably to their environment. Doesn't mean its an excuse, but environment matters. We'd change more lives by changing the environment (advertising, culture etc) than growling at people about "personal responsibility".

A lot of the growling about personal responsibility seems to come from two camps. The first is the kind that wants to eat at mcdonalds and is frightened of some dystopian future where they're forced at gun point to eat salads. The second is the person who is constantly worn out from the force of will that it takes to resist temptation and as such resents people who didn't put in that much effort. The first... is just selfish, the second would be as much better off in a world with reduced temptation than the one they're forced to contend with.

VERY well said...
And I mean VERY VERY VERY well said!

kklindsey

I do believe that refined carbohydrates are as addicitive as alcohol and cigarettes...

They combine with emotional instability to create serious cravings that are VERY difficult to fight off...

Its only once I realized this that I started to serious limit my intake of refiend carbs and cut myself some slack when I craved foods that I deemed to be bad...

Without that understanding, it very easy for someone who has dieted their whole lives to fall into the trap that since they've failed so may times, since they are to weak to walk away from the cravings... it places all the blame on them when really the break down of refined carbs and the messages it send to the crave centre of your brain is NOT something you control.

It was far easier for me to say no to these cravings once I understood them, but even then I had to rely heavily on good friends who listened to me cry and watched me struggle as I fought my addiction to carbs.

Its not as easy as just shut up and do it'.
And this is coming from someone who finally has and is.
And the message that either you shut-up and do it or you're just making excuses pushes those that haven't gotten there further into the cycle of 'I'm just to weak to do this... pass the pizza'

Sorry, I never ever said "just shut up and do it" Nope. And to guess what? I am a carb addict with an extreme sensitivity to carbs. to the point I was diagnosed with cyclothymic disorder and spent a year on meds. I had ocd, anxiety attacks and binged like nobody's business. I did not discover the carb addiction until I had already begun dieting and losing weight. I researched and read and learned and tried different methods and eventually realized refined carbs were a big no-no for me. I love me some donuts, cookies, cake, candybars. I can't eat them. I still have to exert self control and will power to keep these things out of my mouth and that is choice I make every single day.

I am never ever about judging someone. I posted an article and said it ticked me off and I didn't believe in what was written. I didn't go onto someone's post who was struggling and asking for help and say "shut up and do it" and you will never see me do that. ever. I have posted on several people's posts who were struggling and after looking at their diary recommended to them that they might have a carb sensitivity and pointed them to articles that would help.

Eats_With_A_Fist

Definitely agree that that attitude can turn some people off, but that's why it all starts with being honest with ourselves, and finding out where we fit in the process. It can be just as frustrating for people who need to hear "shut up and do it" to be coddled and told to go slower.

A beginning runner wouldn't shoot for a marathon in their first few days (at least if they're smart), so naturally they're not gonna train with people who are at that intensity level. That's one thing I look forward to about the community here...the pool has all depths and we can all get the help we need, where we're at, as long as we don't try to bite off more than we can chew.

I'm still a newb though, so I'm trying to find my place in the queue...it doesn't offend me to "hear the big dogs barking" because I know they're where I'm not. Still...sometimes it's hard not to take things personally, so I know what you mean...

kklindsey

Definitely agree that that attitude can turn some people off, but that's why it all starts with being honest with ourselves, and finding out where we fit in the process. It can be just as frustrating for people who need to hear "shut up and do it" to be coddled and told to go slower.

A beginning runner wouldn't should for a marathon in their first few days (at least if they're smart), so naturally they're not gonna train with people who are at that intensity level. That's one thing I look forward to about the community here...the pool has all depths and we can all get the help we need, where we're at, as long as we don't try to bite off more than we can chew.

I'm still a newb though, so I'm trying to find my place in the queue...it doesn't offend me to "hear the big dogs barking" because I know they're where I'm not. Still...sometimes it's hard not to take things personally, so I know what you mean...

Love it "hear the big dogs barking"! as I just said, I never ever ever want to discourage or offend someone but I have lost 165lbs and maintained it and I feel like if I tell what I know I can help people. Nobody has to listen if they don't like what I am saying.

Eats_With_A_Fist

"I have lost 165lbs and maintained it and I feel like if I tell what I know I can help people. Nobody has to listen if they don't like what I am saying."

Some would say amen, I just say BOOM! Right on.

Lunachic77

A little off topic but sorta relevant to the general point you are making....

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/health/user-post-omg-im-obese-quot-the-pretty-face-syndrome-quot-2501704/

This is a girl that fits this mentality to a T...rather than adopt a healthy lifestyle by proper nutrition and exercise she is going the "lazy way" out for cosmetic reasons and a genuine lack of trying the right way.

sculptandtone

I don't mean to discount personal accountability and I completely disagree with the line of thinking where smoking is a singular behavior but obesity is not, but how does one explain the meteoric rise in obesity compared to previous decades? It's obvious your surroundings DO play a major role. Telling a morbidly obese person to stop making excuses and eat less is akin to telling a hopeless alcoholic to stop drinking.

You are 100 per cent correct. Of course, you are applying reason and fact to a complex problem. The "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality relies completely on simplistic personal responsibility and not at all on an understanding of various genetic, societal and environmental factors. To really solve a problem you need to understand what the problem is. If you don't, making the right choices is simply another short term solution.

sallen67

The part you are missing is that food is an addiction that you can't quit.
You have to eat and take in calories on a daily basis. You don't have to smoke, drink or do any kind of drugs to sustain a normal lifestyle.

You can believe whatever you want, but just because something was easy or worked for you doesn't mean that it is the same for every other person walking the planet.

Speaking for myself only, when I got to the point of being obese exercise was an impossibility. I let it go to the point where I physically couldn't exercise my way back to a healthy lifestyle.

Dieting is easy, maintaining is the difficult part. Anyone who is truly overweight (obese) would probably agree with me. I'm not talking about the Oh, I'm a size 4 and want to be a size 3 I'm talking about medical related co-morbidity type of weight problems.

Anyhow I had weight loss surgery, and it was a life saver. I had to lose 20% of my weight before they would do the surgery, which I did. After the surgery I lost another 150 pounds.

I had never been a runner, I had done sports, played baseball, football, Judo, but the positions I played or the activities I chose didn't require high end cardiovascular abilities. Hell I failed PE in high school because I refused to run laps. At the same time I was qualifying for the Jr. Nations in Judo. So I had reached a pretty high level of ability in that sporting activity, but I was far from being physically fit.

So what did weight loss surgery do for me. It gave me a jump start. It reduced my desire and my ability to gorge myself. It allowed me to see results which was encouraging and helped to keep me motivated. That rapid weight loss allowed me to add physical activity back to my life. It gave me time to focus on what I was eating and to attempt to establish a healthier diet.

Since surgery I have run a couple half marathons, a 70.3 Triathlon, several 100+ mile bike rides, and a handful of shorter distance triathlons.

So was it the easy way out? Yes and no, The weight came off faster than I could have done on my own, but I still to this day struggle with food, I have a hard time with imagery of how much to eat. I'm still addicted to food, but I attempt to control that by logging my foods and I weigh or measure everything I prepare. When I go out to eat I often ask for a to go box to be brought when I place my order, or I share it with my wife or son. I know what I did to get the way I was and I know what it took to get to the way I am now.

I exercise 4-6 times a week as my schedule allows and I'm enjoying my life.
Whenever I hear someone talk about the easy way out, I usually just shake my head and tune them out, because they don't know what the F they are talking about.

Tell you what if you don't do things the easy way, the next time your car breaks down, don't call a tow truck or a friend for help, just hop on out of the car and start pushing that thing home, because to ask for assistance would be to take the easy way out.

Scott

sculptandtone

The part you are missing is that food is an addiction that you can't quit.
You have to eat and take in calories on a daily basis. You don't have to smoke, drink or do any kind of drugs to sustain a normal lifestyle.

You can believe whatever you want, but just because something was easy or worked for you doesn't mean that it is the same for every other person walking the planet.

Speaking for myself only, when I got to the point of being obese exercise was an impossibility. I let it go to the point where I physically couldn't exercise my way back to a healthy lifestyle.

Dieting is easy, maintaining is the difficult part. Anyone who is truly overweight (obese) would probably agree with me. I'm not talking about the Oh, I'm a size 4 and want to be a size 3 I'm talking about medical related co-morbidity type of weight problems.

Anyhow I had weight loss surgery, and it was a life saver. I had to lose 20% of my weight before they would do the surgery, which I did. After the surgery I lost another 150 pounds.

I had never been a runner, I had done sports, played baseball, football, Judo, but the positions I played or the activities I chose didn't require high end cardiovascular abilities. Hell I failed PE in high school because I refused to run laps. At the same time I was qualifying for the Jr. Nations in Judo. So I had reached a pretty high level of ability in that sporting activity, but I was far from being physically fit.

So what did weight loss surgery do for me. It gave me a jump start. It reduced my desire and my ability to gorge myself. It allowed me to see results which was encouraging and helped to keep me motivated. That rapid weight loss allowed me to add physical activity back to my life. It gave me time to focus on what I was eating and to attempt to establish a healthier diet.

Since surgery I have run a couple half marathons, a 70.3 Triathlon, several 100+ mile bike rides, and a handful of shorter distance triathlons.

So was it the easy way out? Yes and no, The weight came off faster than I could have done on my own, but I still to this day struggle with food, I have a hard time with imagery of how much to eat. I'm still addicted to food, but I attempt to control that by logging my foods and I weigh or measure everything I prepare. When I go out to eat I often ask for a to go box to be brought when I place my order, or I share it with my wife or son. I know what I did to get the way I was and I know what it took to get to the way I am now.

I exercise 4-6 times a week as my schedule allows and I'm enjoying my life.
Whenever I hear someone talk about the easy way out, I usually just shake my head and tune them out, because they don't know what the F they are talking about.

Tell you what if you don't do things the easy way, the next time your car breaks down, don't call a tow truck or a friend for help, just hop on out of the car and start pushing that thing home, because to ask for assistance would be to take the easy way out.

Scott

BRAVO Scott. For your exceptional accomplishments and your incredible post. Don't ever, ever let anyone downplay the incredible thing you have managed to achieve....i doubt there's been a single easy moment in it.

Schwiggity

There needs to be a middle ground with the whole "I cause everything in my life, good and bad" and "Society did it to me!" argument.

musica814

What is it with American culture, and the complete rejection of the most basic freedom we have, "Personal Responsibility"?

^THIS!!

Schwiggity

Blaming people is easier than fixing all of our social, agricultural, and economic problems I guess.

anthony438

There needs to be a middle ground with the whole "I cause everything in my life, good and bad" and "Society did it to me!" argument.

How about, "I did it, but society drove the getaway car"?

Dawntodusk

Losing weight in our society is like going to a loud concert and trying to meditate. You can do it, but it requires a lot of self-discipline. Someone might say, "Just ignore the music and concentrate. It's your own responsibility; take ownership of it!" But, seriously, it would be a lot easier to do it in a quiet forest without any distractions. Wouldn't it be nice if our environment supported us so that it weren't a uphill battle at every turn?

musica814

A little off topic but sorta relevant to the general point you are making....

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/health/user-post-omg-im-obese-quot-the-pretty-face-syndrome-quot-2501704/

This is a girl that fits this mentality to a T...rather than adopt a healthy lifestyle by proper nutrition and exercise she is going the "lazy way" out for cosmetic reasons and a genuine lack of trying the right way.

The most annoying part of that article was having to hear her brag about how pretty she thought she was. lol really...

lovejoydavid

Blaming people is easier than fixing all of our social, agricultural, and economic problems I guess.

Certainly, years ago we spoke with our wallets and bought all the wrong products. Subsequently (and a bit along the lines of how the opium trade was handled in the orient), those same companies pushed those same products as hard as they could, even to the point of crowding out competing products that would not have had the same health implications. Did they know at the time that processed foods would active the same reward centers in the brain as cocaine? No, but if the tabacco industry is any clue, it would not have changed anything if they did.

Honestly, we only got the edge on smoking when we turned it into a pariah. Can the same thing be done to obesity? Only if we are careful to turn the products into the socially unwanted, not the people. As well, studies have shown that people have a limited capacity for self control, that is, the more times we have to exercise choice, the fewer good ones we will make. Taking that crap off the table, as much as possible, is a huge part of the answer. And trust me, as man who spends a lot of time in ER's and ICU's, we need answers.

lovejoydavid

Losing weight in our society is like going to a loud concert and trying to meditate. You can do it, but it requires a lot of self-discipline. Someone might say, "Just ignore the music and concentrate. It's your own responsibility; take ownership of it!" But, seriously, it would be a lot easier to do it in a quiet forest without any distractions. Wouldn't it be nice if our environment supported us so that it weren't a uphill battle at every turn?

Quite right! The only people that survive in that enviroment are the exceptional, the gifted. A bell curve, sadly, will demonstrate why so many fail. However, where you place on that curve is still rather up to you. Compatabilism rules the day!

TK421NotAtPost

The part you are missing is that food is an addiction that you can't quit.
You have to eat and take in calories on a daily basis. You don't have to smoke, drink or do any kind of drugs to sustain a normal lifestyle.

You can believe whatever you want, but just because something was easy or worked for you doesn't mean that it is the same for every other person walking the planet.

Speaking for myself only, when I got to the point of being obese exercise was an impossibility. I let it go to the point where I physically couldn't exercise my way back to a healthy lifestyle.

Dieting is easy, maintaining is the difficult part. Anyone who is truly overweight (obese) would probably agree with me. I'm not talking about the Oh, I'm a size 4 and want to be a size 3 I'm talking about medical related co-morbidity type of weight problems.

Anyhow I had weight loss surgery, and it was a life saver. I had to lose 20% of my weight before they would do the surgery, which I did. After the surgery I lost another 150 pounds.

I had never been a runner, I had done sports, played baseball, football, Judo, but the positions I played or the activities I chose didn't require high end cardiovascular abilities. Hell I failed PE in high school because I refused to run laps. At the same time I was qualifying for the Jr. Nations in Judo. So I had reached a pretty high level of ability in that sporting activity, but I was far from being physically fit.

So what did weight loss surgery do for me. It gave me a jump start. It reduced my desire and my ability to gorge myself. It allowed me to see results which was encouraging and helped to keep me motivated. That rapid weight loss allowed me to add physical activity back to my life. It gave me time to focus on what I was eating and to attempt to establish a healthier diet.

Since surgery I have run a couple half marathons, a 70.3 Triathlon, several 100+ mile bike rides, and a handful of shorter distance triathlons.

So was it the easy way out? Yes and no, The weight came off faster than I could have done on my own, but I still to this day struggle with food, I have a hard time with imagery of how much to eat. I'm still addicted to food, but I attempt to control that by logging my foods and I weigh or measure everything I prepare. When I go out to eat I often ask for a to go box to be brought when I place my order, or I share it with my wife or son. I know what I did to get the way I was and I know what it took to get to the way I am now.

I exercise 4-6 times a week as my schedule allows and I'm enjoying my life.
Whenever I hear someone talk about the easy way out, I usually just shake my head and tune them out, because they don't know what the F they are talking about.

Tell you what if you don't do things the easy way, the next time your car breaks down, don't call a tow truck or a friend for help, just hop on out of the car and start pushing that thing home, because to ask for assistance would be to take the easy way out.

Scott

BRAVO Scott. For your exceptional accomplishments and your incredible post. Don't ever, ever let anyone downplay the incredible thing you have managed to achieve....i doubt there's been a single easy moment in it.

+1!!

redheadmommy

I think that article have zillions of merit point.
Fist of all , food addiction is very different from any other addiction, because you can live without, drinking, smoking, using drugs, but you can not live without eating.
I used to be a heavy smoker for 8 years, and I quit cold turkey , and I was successful at the very first time. I have never smoked in 10 years. The withdrawal was hard the first week or 2 or 3, but it was gone after that. I could easily manage not to get tempted. I would never ever would able to do that if I HAD to smoke 3-4 cigarettes a day to survive.

Second of all, availability and price plays a HUGE role of our food selection. I can spend $1 on kraft dinner and feed my whole family from it. I want to feed my family with fruits/vegetables / lean meat and whole grains I have to pay a 10+ times more more. If I add organic produce to the equation, then the cost became prohibitive for many average families out there.

Also time and availability is a a problem. 40 or 50 decades ago, most families could afford a living on a single salary. Most women stayed home took care of the children and cooked on daily basis. Today families are different. First of all many family do not even have 2 parents. Even families where there are 2 parents often can not afford for the mom to stay home, because they need 2 incomes. All the sudden spending 2 hrs on daily basis for preparing meals is often not possible. Today's families and parents are overworked, overstressed, and have no time to prepare proper meals constantly. Then availability of choices outside of the home is a huge problem.
I read it on MFP every day that people struggling to make acceptable choices on the days they have to eat out. Don't forget these are the crowd that is very conscious about the calorie intake, very dedicated to lose weight, often very obsessed with the whole calorie counting, and still struggling to find anything that is healthy and acceptable calorie wise.

Of course I am not saying that we didn't have a role of in our own obesity, but environmental influences sure do not help!

blanblu

this environment thing is getting old... taking aside people with legitimate problems, it is very easy to reach obesity regardless of the environment... I'm obese but I am not going to blame Costco for selling bulk twinkies or BK for selling triple whoppers... just because these establishments exist, it does not mean I should go there... I and everyone else should know better... instead, I along with the majority of people make this decision and a conscious one at that... I admit that I do... it would appear however that many prefer to dwell in denial... we live in the USA? great... do we let culture and society dictate our lifestyles? we could, but if we committed to a better lifestyle and made our own choices, perhaps those car rides a 1/4 mile down the road could turn into swift walks, jogs or bike rides.......gah... I'm so lazy...

craig1768

I don't mean to discount personal accountability and I completely disagree with the line of thinking where smoking is a singular behavior but obesity is not, but how does one explain the meteoric rise in obesity compared to previous decades? It's obvious your surroundings DO play a major role. Telling a morbidly obese person to stop making excuses and eat less is akin to telling a hopeless alcoholic to stop drinking.

Boy, I am not sure what message to take from this. My initial thoughts... since i can't control my surroundings/environments and there are influences that have a negative impact on my health... I should just quit MFP and call it a day because I can't make a choice (and I am not talking about deciding to be obese or not, before it goes there).

blanblu

Boy, I am not sure what message to take from this. My initial thoughts... since i can't control my surroundings/environments and there are influences that have a negative impact on my health... I should just quit MFP and call it a day because I can't make a choice (and I am not talking about deciding to be obese or not, before it goes there).

yep, there is too much food (not just junk), too much alcohol and too many ciggs in this country... let's all move to a 3rd world country because this environment is just forcing Doritos down my throat, alcohol thru my liver and smoke into my lungs... mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa... now if I could only react...

kklindsey

The part you are missing is that food is an addiction that you can't quit.
You have to eat and take in calories on a daily basis. You don't have to smoke, drink or do any kind of drugs to sustain a normal lifestyle.

You can believe whatever you want, but just because something was easy or worked for you doesn't mean that it is the same for every other person walking the planet.

Speaking for myself only, when I got to the point of being obese exercise was an impossibility. I let it go to the point where I physically couldn't exercise my way back to a healthy lifestyle.

Dieting is easy, maintaining is the difficult part. Anyone who is truly overweight (obese) would probably agree with me. I'm not talking about the Oh, I'm a size 4 and want to be a size 3 I'm talking about medical related co-morbidity type of weight problems.

Anyhow I had weight loss surgery, and it was a life saver. I had to lose 20% of my weight before they would do the surgery, which I did. After the surgery I lost another 150 pounds.

I had never been a runner, I had done sports, played baseball, football, Judo, but the positions I played or the activities I chose didn't require high end cardiovascular abilities. Hell I failed PE in high school because I refused to run laps. At the same time I was qualifying for the Jr. Nations in Judo. So I had reached a pretty high level of ability in that sporting activity, but I was far from being physically fit.

So what did weight loss surgery do for me. It gave me a jump start. It reduced my desire and my ability to gorge myself. It allowed me to see results which was encouraging and helped to keep me motivated. That rapid weight loss allowed me to add physical activity back to my life. It gave me time to focus on what I was eating and to attempt to establish a healthier diet.

Since surgery I have run a couple half marathons, a 70.3 Triathlon, several 100+ mile bike rides, and a handful of shorter distance triathlons.

So was it the easy way out? Yes and no, The weight came off faster than I could have done on my own, but I still to this day struggle with food, I have a hard time with imagery of how much to eat. I'm still addicted to food, but I attempt to control that by logging my foods and I weigh or measure everything I prepare. When I go out to eat I often ask for a to go box to be brought when I place my order, or I share it with my wife or son. I know what I did to get the way I was and I know what it took to get to the way I am now.

I exercise 4-6 times a week as my schedule allows and I'm enjoying my life.
Whenever I hear someone talk about the easy way out, I usually just shake my head and tune them out, because they don't know what the F they are talking about.

Tell you what if you don't do things the easy way, the next time your car breaks down, don't call a tow truck or a friend for help, just hop on out of the car and start pushing that thing home, because to ask for assistance would be to take the easy way out.

Scott

this is NOT the other post and I never discounted anyones method of losing weight. all I said was the article made me angry because it tried to say that it was beyond ones control to fix. You fixed your problem and I salute you. I am not here to tell someone how to lose weight. I am here to say that you have to own your problem and fix it not sit back and say I can't help it and it is beyond my control. I too got so obese I couldn't exercise. I did NOT exercise for the first 120lbs that I lost. read my stats. I am 5'3" and I weighed 300lbs. When I did lose enough to start exercising I did 10 minutes at a time and it nearly killed me. LIke you I now am very active

I will never tell anyone HOW to lose weight or say that there way was the easy way. None of the ways are easy. And if you get healthy and lose the weight that is the end goal everyone is looking for, right?

Mommawarrior

HARD TRUTH HERE......most fat/obese people are that way because they made themselves that way! We do have to eat to live, but we do not have to eat everything in sight!

The addiction to food is totally quitable....is that even a word. You can totally kick the habit so to speak of eating out of control, which is what makes 99.9% of obese people obese. They eat too much. We in America as a whole eat too much and are gluttons and have no self control (not everyone, just in general). We are a nation of give me give me and take no responsibility for our own actions, even our own eating. People sue MCDonalds for making them fat......WHAT A CROCK OF CRAP. No one forced you to eat there. And people always say it is cheaper to eat crap then healthy food. THAT IS A CROCK OF CRAP TOO.

I am overweight because even though I was injured and couldn't run, I chose to eat poorly and not do what I could do in order to keep my weight down.

Sure when you get to the point that you weigh too much exercise is gonna suck, it is gonna hurt it is gonna be hard. Don't get there, and if you do, don't blame anyone but yourself. You choose what goes in your mouth and you chose how much exercise you get or don't get. If you sit on your butt all day and do nothing, you are gonna get fat, just that simple.

I love people, big or small, but I can not stand when people blame others or society, or their atmosphere, or their work environment or whatever else they chose to blame their lack of healthy food/exercise choices on. We need to grow up and be responsible for ourselves.

Hollycat

So how do you explain the "twins reared apart" studies, where they take identical twins who have been adopted away at birth, and compare them years later to find that their body shapes are very similar EVEN WHEN RAISED BY DIFFERENT PARENTS?

Just curious. I agree that choices are immensely important, but we all know people who eat crappy and are thin no matter what. I can make good choices (and am doing so) and impact my weight, but the fact is, it's probably a little harder for me to do so, than your average Joe(leen).

We inherit risks (say, for diabetes) and then our choices affect how much these vulnerabilites impact us. In the case of childhood diabetes, I would be hard pressed to blame a child for this. Again, diabetes can be MANAGED with good choices, but a diabetic has to work harder than the average Joe to maintain good health.

Huh. I was adopted at birth. I was raised by naturally thin, tall people. Food and dieting was a constant power struggle between my Mum and I as I went through my teens. She simply didn't understand me. I didn't understand me. It was an obsession that went beyond reason. I became a fat adult. I reunited with my birthfamily in my 30s. Surprise! They're ALL significantly overweight. All of them. Explain that to me, will ya'? I could explain it to you, but I"m curious to see what your reply to that is.

Hollycat
:flowerforyou:

Avalonis

So how do you explain the "twins reared apart" studies, where they take identical twins who have been adopted away at birth, and compare them years later to find that their body shapes are very similar EVEN WHEN RAISED BY DIFFERENT PARENTS?

Just curious. I agree that choices are immensely important, but we all know people who eat crappy and are thin no matter what. I can make good choices (and am doing so) and impact my weight, but the fact is, it's probably a little harder for me to do so, than your average Joe(leen).

We inherit risks (say, for diabetes) and then our choices affect how much these vulnerabilites impact us. In the case of childhood diabetes, I would be hard pressed to blame a child for this. Again, diabetes can be MANAGED with good choices, but a diabetic has to work harder than the average Joe to maintain good health.

Huh. I was adopted at birth. I was raised by naturally thin, tall people. Food and dieting was a constant power struggle between my Mum and I as I went through my teens. She simply didn't understand me. I didn't understand me. It was an obsession that went beyond reason. I became a fat adult. I reunited with my birthfamily in my 30s. Surprise! They're ALL significantly overweight. All of them. Explain that to me, will ya'? I could explain it to you, but I"m curious to see what your reply to that is.

Hollycat
:flowerforyou:

Some people have good genetics and get to be thin for free.

The rest of us have to work our *kitten* off for it. Life's not fair. It really isn't. I am not one of the naturally skinny people. But I am at a very healthy weight now, and proud of it.

We all need to learn self control, some of us more than others. That's life.

kklindsey

So how do you explain the "twins reared apart" studies, where they take identical twins who have been adopted away at birth, and compare them years later to find that their body shapes are very similar EVEN WHEN RAISED BY DIFFERENT PARENTS?

Just curious. I agree that choices are immensely important, but we all know people who eat crappy and are thin no matter what. I can make good choices (and am doing so) and impact my weight, but the fact is, it's probably a little harder for me to do so, than your average Joe(leen).

We inherit risks (say, for diabetes) and then our choices affect how much these vulnerabilites impact us. In the case of childhood diabetes, I would be hard pressed to blame a child for this. Again, diabetes can be MANAGED with good choices, but a diabetic has to work harder than the average Joe to maintain good health.

Huh. I was adopted at birth. I was raised by naturally thin, tall people. Food and dieting was a constant power struggle between my Mum and I as I went through my teens. She simply didn't understand me. I didn't understand me. It was an obsession that went beyond reason. I became a fat adult. I reunited with my birthfamily in my 30s. Surprise! They're ALL significantly overweight. All of them. Explain that to me, will ya'? I could explain it to you, but I"m curious to see what your reply to that is.

Hollycat
:flowerforyou:

Were you asking me to explain the twin thing or the original poster about twins or just anyone?

Louiselesley

Nothing annoys me more than people who are overweight and complain non-stop but never do anything about it.



Plus I love the fact a nuture versus nature debate has opened up here. As an ex-pysch student I had many lectures on it.

Personally I'm on the middle boat. Genes play a huge part in our lives but we are not slaves to our faulty genes. (says the person who got some DODGEY genes let me tell you.)

Hollycat

Nothing annoys me more than people who are overweight and complain non-stop but never do anything about it.



Plus I love the fact a nuture versus nature debate has opened up here. As an ex-pysch student I had many lectures on it.

Personally I'm on the middle boat. Genes play a huge part in our lives but we are not slaves to our faulty genes. (says the person who got some DODGEY genes let me tell you.)

Yes! That's what I was trying to say. I certainly got the crap in the gene pool, but here I am doing what I can about it. Does that mean I get to crap allover those that haven't figured it out and made the decision yet by telling them in veiled terms they're just pigs or by telling them what to do if they don't ask? Not if I have an ounce of belief in karma baby. :noway:

Hollycat
:flowerforyou:

P.S. I was asking to have it explained why, if I was raised by naturally thin people was I not also taught to be thin? Why, instead, was I driven from within to overeat and be a source of embarrassment for my adoptive family? Why did I feel so powerless to prevent it? What was it inside me that rebelled against the thin folks approach? Why was 'it' there in the first place? Genetics, perhaps? A will to survive starvation through generations? A will to survive by being the biggest, baddest meanest ****h on the block? Hmm? Possible? Just like it's survival instinct to be the skinniest, fastest creature on the block, so you can run away from the big bad ****h? Both extremes are survival instincts, hard-wired into the individual to a greater or lesser extent. For some [me, for example], no amount of environmental influence can alter it. The will to overcome it has to come from within and the individual has to find their own 'key' to the vault, so to speak. So 'blame' and 'lazy' and 'fault' are really really bad trigger words for me.