Problem with carbs
Replies
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Would you eat fat after your work-out? What is the point of exercise then?
If the fat is in something like and avacado, then OH HECK YEAH!!!!!!0 -
As adults, we don't need fat (not as much as the American culture is consuming) and I did say our body uses 10% of fat, we need little protein unless you are the exception (like body building). And I did say to go to a nutritionist/doctor to determine YOUR protein needs. I think however, I can generalize and say that fat is bad. I'll make another generalization and say that refined sugar is bad as well.
I suppose you CAN make a generalization but its simply wrong. We absolutely do need fat. And what does that even mean: "our body uses 10% of fat"?
Again, EVERYONE needs more than a little protein. Again, if you want to have normal functioning cells and repair tissue then you need protein. If you want to stave off the natural loss of mucle mass as you age then you need protein. If you want to feel full and satsfied when you eat then you need protein.
I seriously can't tell if what you are posting is just misinformed copy pasta or outright lies. Either way, you're all the way wrong.
When I say our body uses 10% of fat, I mean our body uses out of the whole fat we consume, it uses 10% of it. I never said we don't need protein, I said we don't need a lot of it but that is specific to your lifestyle. So, if you are sitting in front of a computer all day and all night, you don't need a lot of protein. If you are a body builder, you need protein--not that hard and it is specific, I did, again, say go to an expert to find out your specific needs. But generally speaking, as adults, we don't need a ton of protein.
If you want to feel satisfied, you don't eat protein but carbohydrates. Eating meat only and no/low carbs brings about Ketosis. You can listen to Dr. McDougall's interview with Dr. Atkins: http://www.drmcdougall.com/mcdougallcast/media/2007-05-03_01_track_1.mp3
Where did I say anything about ketosis or Atkins? You are apparently living in an all or nothing world. Examples you've used:
You either sit in front of a computer all day and need no protein or you are a body builder and need a lot.
You either eat primarily carbs or go into ketosis.
Your numbers on the amount of fat we "use" is just plain wrong, once again. Where did you get this 10% from? And if that's true how does someone like myself who eats about 80-100 grams of fat per day (mostly animal fat) have 9% body fat at 6'3" 220 pounds? By your numbers I should be a blimp.0 -
I said that 90% of fat eaten is stored on your body as fat. 10% therefore is used so, yes, fat is needed. But as the statistics show, 1/3 of Americans are overweight and 1/3 are obese. So do you tell them to eat fat? As I said, most here are here to lose fat so we can lose weight so we can be healthy again. I never said as a healthy person don't eat avocados and almonds and olive oil. Please check out the amount of fat there is in those three products and tell me, would you tell someone who just finished his or her work out to eat fat to eat back their calories?
Would you eat fat after your work-out? What is the point of exercise then?
Why does it have to be an all or nothing situation when consuming fat? Just have a nice, well-balanced meal meal that contains adequate carbs, protein and moderate fat after working out.
And as for the amount of fat that is stored on your body as fat, doesn't that depend more on how many calories are consumed?
If you are fit and not overweight or obese, then go ahead and enjoy.
Yes, calories from fat is important, so go look up olive oil and avocados and tell me if those numbers are good enough for you and then would you recommend to an over weight person to go ahead and eat.
Olive oil: calories from fat (%) is 149% saturated fat (total fat 332%) per 216 g serving
almonds: calories from fat (%) is 18% (total fat is 72%) per 95 g
avocados: calories from fat (%) is 16% (total fat is 34%) per 150 g
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/509/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3085/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1843/2
The American Heart Association recommends up to 7% of saturated fat and no more of 1% trans fat.
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4582
"Total fat intake (saturated, trans, monounsaturated, polyunsaturated) should be adjusted to fit total caloric needs. Overweight people should consume no more than 30 percent of total calories from fat."
Now that you have the facts, make up your own mind and see if you would recommend a person who just finished exercising and who wants to lose fat to eat these products.0 -
Well, animal fat is saturated fat, vegetable fat is either mono or poly. You can look up these types of fats. Saturated fats are clumped "tight" and is much denser than vegetable fat. This is why cooking and dipping oils are all considered liquid fat.
All fat is bad, but there are essential fats found in plants. So, I say this: fat is fat and fat (90%) of it will be placed as adipose tissue (under your skin and organs) because your body uses up carbs for engery first, then fat afterwards. Why would you work out and then eat olive oil or avocados when avocados have 34% fat per 150 g serving http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1843/2 and olive oil has 332% fat per cup (216g). Now you say that you won't eat all that and that's fine, but that's still fat. Olive oil calories? 1910 Calories from Fat? 1910. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/509/2
So if the fat you eat can be easily stored, because your body uses carbs for energy when working out then fat, why would you eat fat especially if MFP advocates that we eat back our work out calories? If you are going to eat a salad (something healthy), why would you pour fat over it (olive oil)?
Now, I agree that body builders need protein, no doubt, but I did say, generally speaking, the rest of adults who don't need to build muscle don't need a lot of protein.
If you think you need meat to be strong, please watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZwmluSn_T0
you say 'all fat is bad', but is it? I mean, are there actually any scientific studies that unequivocally show that fats (of any kind) are actually something we should avoid in totality? After all, that is what you are saying we should be doing if 'all fats are bad'.
I don't think it fair to compare avocados and olive oil. After all, you can't pour avocado juice over a salad in the way you do olive oil - each has its place in our diet and food choices. I certainly couldn't drink a cup of olive oil (I once tried it. I lost a challenge and the forfeit was to eat a huge chilli and drink the oil. I won't describe what it felt like)
I am happily an omnivore and firmly believe that we humans have evolved to be so. There are people who choose not to eat meat, and that is fine, but I do not think the nutritional or evolutionary argument holds water.
Total agreement here--not "all fats are bad." That's a gross generalization that could cause health problems for folks who decide to just nuke all the fat in their diet. Some vitamins require fat for proper breakdown and digestion. Skin and hair suffer with insufficient fat intake, as does hormone production and regulation (not to mention fertility). Cut fat back hard enough and even basic cellular functions begin to suffer. And good luck with that neuron myelination and cognitive development with a fat-free diet.
Kris0 -
As adults, we don't need fat (not as much as the American culture is consuming) and I did say our body uses 10% of fat, we need little protein unless you are the exception (like body building). And I did say to go to a nutritionist/doctor to determine YOUR protein needs. I think however, I can generalize and say that fat is bad. I'll make another generalization and say that refined sugar is bad as well.
I suppose you CAN make a generalization but its simply wrong. We absolutely do need fat. And what does that even mean: "our body uses 10% of fat"?
Again, EVERYONE needs more than a little protein. Again, if you want to have normal functioning cells and repair tissue then you need protein. If you want to stave off the natural loss of mucle mass as you age then you need protein. If you want to feel full and satsfied when you eat then you need protein.
I seriously can't tell if what you are posting is just misinformed copy pasta or outright lies. Either way, you're all the way wrong.
When I say our body uses 10% of fat, I mean our body uses out of the whole fat we consume, it uses 10% of it. I never said we don't need protein, I said we don't need a lot of it but that is specific to your lifestyle. So, if you are sitting in front of a computer all day and all night, you don't need a lot of protein. If you are a body builder, you need protein--not that hard and it is specific, I did, again, say go to an expert to find out your specific needs. But generally speaking, as adults, we don't need a ton of protein.
If you want to feel satisfied, you don't eat protein but carbohydrates. Eating meat only and no/low carbs brings about Ketosis. You can listen to Dr. McDougall's interview with Dr. Atkins: http://www.drmcdougall.com/mcdougallcast/media/2007-05-03_01_track_1.mp3
Where did I say anything about ketosis or Atkins? You are apparently living in an all or nothing world. Examples you've used:
You either sit in front of a computer all day and need no protein or you are a body builder and need a lot.
You either eat primarily carbs or go into ketosis.
Your numbers on the amount of fat we "use" is just plain wrong, once again. Where did you get this 10% from? And if that's true how does someone like myself who eats about 80-100 grams of fat per day (mostly animal fat) have 9% body fat at 6'3" 220 pounds? By your numbers I should be a blimp.
The 10% number I found from Dr. McDougall's book. As for your lifestyle, I do not know, you can answer that best.0 -
Well, animal fat is saturated fat, vegetable fat is either mono or poly. You can look up these types of fats. Saturated fats are clumped "tight" and is much denser than vegetable fat. This is why cooking and dipping oils are all considered liquid fat.
All fat is bad, but there are essential fats found in plants. So, I say this: fat is fat and fat (90%) of it will be placed as adipose tissue (under your skin and organs) because your body uses up carbs for engery first, then fat afterwards. Why would you work out and then eat olive oil or avocados when avocados have 34% fat per 150 g serving http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1843/2 and olive oil has 332% fat per cup (216g). Now you say that you won't eat all that and that's fine, but that's still fat. Olive oil calories? 1910 Calories from Fat? 1910. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/509/2
So if the fat you eat can be easily stored, because your body uses carbs for energy when working out then fat, why would you eat fat especially if MFP advocates that we eat back our work out calories? If you are going to eat a salad (something healthy), why would you pour fat over it (olive oil)?
Now, I agree that body builders need protein, no doubt, but I did say, generally speaking, the rest of adults who don't need to build muscle don't need a lot of protein.
If you think you need meat to be strong, please watch this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZwmluSn_T0
you say 'all fat is bad', but is it? I mean, are there actually any scientific studies that unequivocally show that fats (of any kind) are actually something we should avoid in totality? After all, that is what you are saying we should be doing if 'all fats are bad'.
I don't think it fair to compare avocados and olive oil. After all, you can't pour avocado juice over a salad in the way you do olive oil - each has its place in our diet and food choices. I certainly couldn't drink a cup of olive oil (I once tried it. I lost a challenge and the forfeit was to eat a huge chilli and drink the oil. I won't describe what it felt like)
I am happily an omnivore and firmly believe that we humans have evolved to be so. There are people who choose not to eat meat, and that is fine, but I do not think the nutritional or evolutionary argument holds water.
Total agreement here--not "all fats are bad." That's a gross generalization that could cause health problems for folks who decide to just nuke all the fat in their diet. Some vitamins require fat for proper breakdown and digestion. Skin and hair suffer with insufficient fat intake, as does hormone production and regulation (not to mention fertility). Cut fat back hard enough and even basic cellular functions begin to suffer. And good luck with that neuron myelination and cognitive development with a fat-free diet.
Kris
I did say there are essential fats found in plants. I ask that you listen to the podcast by Dr. John McDougall and Pritikin posted earlier as it talks about fat as it relates to cardio vascular disease.0 -
I said that 90% of fat eaten is stored on your body as fat. 10% therefore is used so, yes, fat is needed. But as the statistics show, 1/3 of Americans are overweight and 1/3 are obese. So do you tell them to eat fat? As I said, most here are here to lose fat so we can lose weight so we can be healthy again. I never said as a healthy person don't eat avocados and almonds and olive oil. Please check out the amount of fat there is in those three products and tell me, would you tell someone who just finished his or her work out to eat fat to eat back their calories?
Would you eat fat after your work-out? What is the point of exercise then?
Why does it have to be an all or nothing situation when consuming fat? Just have a nice, well-balanced meal meal that contains adequate carbs, protein and moderate fat after working out.
And as for the amount of fat that is stored on your body as fat, doesn't that depend more on how many calories are consumed?
If you are fit and not overweight or obese, then go ahead and enjoy.
Yes, calories from fat is important, so go look up olive oil and avocados and tell me if those numbers are good enough for you and then would you recommend to an over weight person to go ahead and eat.
Olive oil: calories from fat (%) is 149% saturated fat (total fat 332%) per 216 g serving
almonds: calories from fat (%) is 18% (total fat is 72%) per 95 g
avocados: calories from fat (%) is 16% (total fat is 34%) per 150 g
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/509/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3085/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1843/2
The American Heart Association recommends up to 7% of saturated fat and no more of 1% trans fat.
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4582
"Total fat intake (saturated, trans, monounsaturated, polyunsaturated) should be adjusted to fit total caloric needs. Overweight people should consume no more than 30 percent of total calories from fat."
Now that you have the facts, make up your own mind and see if you would recommend a person who just finished exercising and who wants to lose fat to eat these products.
Please re-read my post. Out of all that stuff you just said, the only thing that relates to what I said is
""Total fat intake (saturated, trans, monounsaturated, polyunsaturated) should be adjusted to fit total caloric needs. Overweight people should consume no more than 30 percent of total calories from fat."
.....which is to have a nice balanced meal with a moderate amount of fat with adequate carb and protein.0 -
Rae, I would encourage you to do your own research and find out what the body uses for energy first: carbs or fat (google search it and you'll find out that the body uses carbs for energy and then fat and then muscle). You will also find out that adults need very little protein (unless you are rebuilding muscle) and so you should check with a professional (nutrionist/trainer) what your specific protein needs are as you are exercising. But generally speaking, adults do not need a lot of protein, not when you compare it to our need for carbohydrates. Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients. For more information about carbs, proteins and fat, read some of Dr. John McDougall's books and read up on his opinion on the carbs vs protein debate.
Good health to you.
I would love to see you go up against some of the low carb zealots here...honestly, it would be fun to watch...lol. At least you are of the understanding that when carbs are ingested and insulin goes up, your body is still burning energy....just not from lipids.0 -
I said that 90% of fat eaten is stored on your body as fat. 10% therefore is used so, yes, fat is needed. But as the statistics show, 1/3 of Americans are overweight and 1/3 are obese. So do you tell them to eat fat? As I said, most here are here to lose fat so we can lose weight so we can be healthy again. I never said as a healthy person don't eat avocados and almonds and olive oil. Please check out the amount of fat there is in those three products and tell me, would you tell someone who just finished his or her work out to eat fat to eat back their calories?
Would you eat fat after your work-out? What is the point of exercise then?
Why does it have to be an all or nothing situation when consuming fat? Just have a nice, well-balanced meal meal that contains adequate carbs, protein and moderate fat after working out.
And as for the amount of fat that is stored on your body as fat, doesn't that depend more on how many calories are consumed?
If you are fit and not overweight or obese, then go ahead and enjoy.
Yes, calories from fat is important, so go look up olive oil and avocados and tell me if those numbers are good enough for you and then would you recommend to an over weight person to go ahead and eat.
Olive oil: calories from fat (%) is 149% saturated fat (total fat 332%) per 216 g serving
almonds: calories from fat (%) is 18% (total fat is 72%) per 95 g
avocados: calories from fat (%) is 16% (total fat is 34%) per 150 g
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/509/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3085/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1843/2
The American Heart Association recommends up to 7% of saturated fat and no more of 1% trans fat.
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4582
"Total fat intake (saturated, trans, monounsaturated, polyunsaturated) should be adjusted to fit total caloric needs. Overweight people should consume no more than 30 percent of total calories from fat."
Now that you have the facts, make up your own mind and see if you would recommend a person who just finished exercising and who wants to lose fat to eat these products.
Please re-read my post. Out of all that stuff you just said, the only thing that relates to what I said is
""Total fat intake (saturated, trans, monounsaturated, polyunsaturated) should be adjusted to fit total caloric needs. Overweight people should consume no more than 30 percent of total calories from fat."
.....which is to have a nice balanced meal with a moderate amount of fat with adequate carb and protein.
I wasn't disagreeing with you. But as an overweight person who needs to eat back their calories, would you eat fat or something else? The original post was that he was concerned with being over in carbs and was thinking of upping protein and fat and was asking for information.
My point is, if you are going to exercise to lose weight (fat and not muscle), why would you eat fatty foods? Again, if you are healthy, go ahead and eat a balanced meal. So I am not a either one way or nothing IF you are healthy.0 -
Rae, I would encourage you to do your own research and find out what the body uses for energy first: carbs or fat (google search it and you'll find out that the body uses carbs for energy and then fat and then muscle). You will also find out that adults need very little protein (unless you are rebuilding muscle) and so you should check with a professional (nutrionist/trainer) what your specific protein needs are as you are exercising. But generally speaking, adults do not need a lot of protein, not when you compare it to our need for carbohydrates. Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients. For more information about carbs, proteins and fat, read some of Dr. John McDougall's books and read up on his opinion on the carbs vs protein debate.
Good health to you.
I would love to see you go up against some of the low carb zealots here...honestly, it would be fun to watch...lol. At least you are of the understanding that when carbs are ingested and insulin goes up, your body is still burning energy....just not from lipids.
I said earlier that a high protein/low carb no carb diet works, I have no doubt and gave a podcast url where Dr. Atkins talks to Dr. McDougall where they discuss their diametrically opposed diets and how they both agree that for overweight people, fat and refined sugar is the enemy and should be restricted.
I personally stopped eating meat because I am worried about other things. But this is because I am not healthy and I am overweight. When I talk to someone on this forum, I assume that people are overweight and want to lose weight and by that, lose fat.
So, if I had to chose from foods high in carbs but low in fat and foods high in fat and low in carbs, I would pick high in carbs but low in fat.0 -
If you're in a caloric deficit, the dietary fat you eat will be burned off regardless. You're focusing too much on the short-term effects of dietary fat. Yes, a large amount of it will be stored, but if you're in a deficit at the end of the day, then guess what? NET fat loss.I wasn't disagreeing with you. But as an overweight person who needs to eat back their calories, would you eat fat or something else? The original post was that he was concerned with being over in carbs and was thinking of upping protein and fat and was asking for information.
My point is, if you are going to exercise to lose weight (fat and not muscle), why would you eat fatty foods? Again, if you are healthy, go ahead and eat a balanced meal. So I am not a either one way or nothing IF you are healthy.
Markers of health improve almost entirely irrespective of fat consumption. The organizations you are referencing are living in the past. Unfortunately such organizations can be quite stubborn when it comes to updating their views. The literature clearly shows the benefits and severe lack of harm in a moderate/high fat diet regarding general health AND body composition.0 -
Rae, I would encourage you to do your own research and find out what the body uses for energy first: carbs or fat (google search it and you'll find out that the body uses carbs for energy and then fat and then muscle). You will also find out that adults need very little protein (unless you are rebuilding muscle) and so you should check with a professional (nutrionist/trainer) what your specific protein needs are as you are exercising. But generally speaking, adults do not need a lot of protein, not when you compare it to our need for carbohydrates. Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients. For more information about carbs, proteins and fat, read some of Dr. John McDougall's books and read up on his opinion on the carbs vs protein debate.
Good health to you.
I would love to see you go up against some of the low carb zealots here...honestly, it would be fun to watch...lol. At least you are of the understanding that when carbs are ingested and insulin goes up, your body is still burning energy....just not from lipids.
I said earlier that a high protein/low carb no carb diet works, I have no doubt and gave a podcast url where Dr. Atkins talks to Dr. McDougall where they discuss their diametrically opposed diets and how they both agree that for overweight people, fat and refined sugar is the enemy and should be restricted.
I personally stopped eating meat because I am worried about other things. But this is because I am not healthy and I am overweight. When I talk to someone on this forum, I assume that people are overweight and want to lose weight and by that, lose fat.
So, if I had to chose from foods high in carbs but low in fat and foods high in fat and low in carbs, I would pick high in carbs but low in fat.
It's funny how your stance keeps changing. At first you recommended that the OP eat no fat at all, which would lead to death by the way. I submit that you have no idea what you are talking about and no one should listen to anything you say.0 -
If you're in a caloric deficit, the dietary fat you eat will be burned off regardless. You're focusing too much on the short-term effects of dietary fat. Yes, a large amount of it will be stored, but if you're in a deficit at the end of the day, then guess what? NET fat loss.I wasn't disagreeing with you. But as an overweight person who needs to eat back their calories, would you eat fat or something else? The original post was that he was concerned with being over in carbs and was thinking of upping protein and fat and was asking for information.
My point is, if you are going to exercise to lose weight (fat and not muscle), why would you eat fatty foods? Again, if you are healthy, go ahead and eat a balanced meal. So I am not a either one way or nothing IF you are healthy.
Markers of health improve almost entirely irrespective of fat consumption. The organizations you are referencing are living in the past. Unfortunately such organizations can be quite stubborn when it comes to updating their views. The literature clearly shows the benefits and severe lack of harm in a moderate/high fat diet regarding general health AND body composition.
Hi, okay. I can respect your opinion. Can you forward me information on what the new literature states?
I am always willing to learn more about what is healthy.
Thank you.0 -
Rae, I would encourage you to do your own research and find out what the body uses for energy first: carbs or fat (google search it and you'll find out that the body uses carbs for energy and then fat and then muscle). You will also find out that adults need very little protein (unless you are rebuilding muscle) and so you should check with a professional (nutrionist/trainer) what your specific protein needs are as you are exercising. But generally speaking, adults do not need a lot of protein, not when you compare it to our need for carbohydrates. Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients. For more information about carbs, proteins and fat, read some of Dr. John McDougall's books and read up on his opinion on the carbs vs protein debate.
Good health to you.
I would love to see you go up against some of the low carb zealots here...honestly, it would be fun to watch...lol. At least you are of the understanding that when carbs are ingested and insulin goes up, your body is still burning energy....just not from lipids.
I said earlier that a high protein/low carb no carb diet works, I have no doubt and gave a podcast url where Dr. Atkins talks to Dr. McDougall where they discuss their diametrically opposed diets and how they both agree that for overweight people, fat and refined sugar is the enemy and should be restricted.
I personally stopped eating meat because I am worried about other things. But this is because I am not healthy and I am overweight. When I talk to someone on this forum, I assume that people are overweight and want to lose weight and by that, lose fat.
So, if I had to chose from foods high in carbs but low in fat and foods high in fat and low in carbs, I would pick high in carbs but low in fat.
It's funny how your stance keeps changing. At first you recommended that the OP eat no fat at all, which would lead to death by the way. I submit that you have no idea what you are talking about and no one should listen to anything you say.
Hi,
I did say that the plant fat is essential, or did you not want to recognize that? I know that I said that no fat is good for you and again, I am assuming that most here have lots of fat already and we don't need to consume more of it especially if it is in comparison with carbs. More fat or more carbs?
Thanks.0 -
Actually, you said,Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients
Are you denying that you wrote this?
Not only are you recommending something that is very dangerous to someones health but you are totally and completely wrong about everything you said here.
You are giving dangerous advice, understand now?0 -
Hi,
I did say that the plant fat is essential, or did you not want to recognize that? I know that I said that no fat is good for you and again, I am assuming that most here have lots of fat already and we don't need to consume more of it especially if it is in comparison with carbs. More fat or more carbs?
Thanks.
n-6 to n-3 ratio gets blown out of the water if all you consume are plant lipids. That's not a good thing.
As far as things you've said that are incorrect or woefully outdated... where do I start? How about an easy one first- olive oil is 149% fat. Think about it.0 -
Rae, I would encourage you to do your own research and find out what the body uses for energy first: carbs or fat (google search it and you'll find out that the body uses carbs for energy and then fat and then muscle). You will also find out that adults need very little protein (unless you are rebuilding muscle) and so you should check with a professional (nutrionist/trainer) what your specific protein needs are as you are exercising. But generally speaking, adults do not need a lot of protein, not when you compare it to our need for carbohydrates. Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients. For more information about carbs, proteins and fat, read some of Dr. John McDougall's books and read up on his opinion on the carbs vs protein debate.
Good health to you.
I would love to see you go up against some of the low carb zealots here...honestly, it would be fun to watch...lol. At least you are of the understanding that when carbs are ingested and insulin goes up, your body is still burning energy....just not from lipids.
I said earlier that a high protein/low carb no carb diet works, I have no doubt and gave a podcast url where Dr. Atkins talks to Dr. McDougall where they discuss their diametrically opposed diets and how they both agree that for overweight people, fat and refined sugar is the enemy and should be restricted.
I personally stopped eating meat because I am worried about other things. But this is because I am not healthy and I am overweight. When I talk to someone on this forum, I assume that people are overweight and want to lose weight and by that, lose fat.
So, if I had to chose from foods high in carbs but low in fat and foods high in fat and low in carbs, I would pick high in carbs but low in fat.
It's funny how your stance keeps changing. At first you recommended that the OP eat no fat at all, which would lead to death by the way. I submit that you have no idea what you are talking about and no one should listen to anything you say.
Hi,
I did say that the plant fat is essential, or did you not want to recognize that? I know that I said that no fat is good for you and again, I am assuming that most here have lots of fat already and we don't need to consume more of it especially if it is in comparison with carbs. More fat or more carbs?
Thanks.
Please just stop posting.0 -
Actually, you said,Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients
Are you denying that you wrote this?
Not only are you recommending something that is very dangerous to someones health but you are totally and completely wrong about everything you said here.
You are giving dangerous advice, understand now?
Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients
I said plant fat is lighter, not saturated, and has the essential nutrients.
I do not deny I said this.
And in context, I said, don't eat fat and lower carbs, that was the take home message. The choice between fat and carbs? Answer that first please.0 -
Hi,
I did say that the plant fat is essential, or did you not want to recognize that? I know that I said that no fat is good for you and again, I am assuming that most here have lots of fat already and we don't need to consume more of it especially if it is in comparison with carbs. More fat or more carbs?
Thanks.
n-6 to n-3 ratio gets blown out of the water if all you consume are plant lipids. That's not a good thing.
As far as things you've said that are incorrect or woefully outdated... where do I start? How about an easy one first- olive oil is 149% fat. Think about it.
Then I will apologize as I received that data from an independent source.0 -
If you want to limit the carbs, eliminate having bread and pasta in the same meal, they are both big carbs.
As for the protien, it is NOT high and is just in the medium range, a bit higher would be ok. I do 80-100 as per my Dr.
Keep to the calories the Dr ordered and you can move down some as you need to.
Watch the water, that is getting high and you can drink too much water, 64oz is the recommended daily amount.
Best of luck and Keep up posted0 -
Hi,
I did say that the plant fat is essential, or did you not want to recognize that? I know that I said that no fat is good for you and again, I am assuming that most here have lots of fat already and we don't need to consume more of it especially if it is in comparison with carbs. More fat or more carbs?
Thanks.
n-6 to n-3 ratio gets blown out of the water if all you consume are plant lipids. That's not a good thing.
As far as things you've said that are incorrect or woefully outdated... where do I start? How about an easy one first- olive oil is 149% fat. Think about it.
Then I will apologize as I received that data from an independent source.
Yes, so basically you're regurgitating the first thing you read/hear on the internet, even if it makes absolutely no sense at all. Think about how it's possible for something to me more than 100% of anything. I'll give you a hint- it's not.0 -
Hi, okay. I can respect your opinion. Can you forward me information on what the new literature states?
I am always willing to learn more about what is healthy.
Thank you.
Here's a good start: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763382/
This has some good insight, too: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18635428
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21437105
And this is a short (maybe 15 minute read total) 2-part series that EVERYONE should read if they want to learn more regarding dietary fat: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-1.html
(And for the record - I am not a low carb eater.)0 -
Actually, you said,Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients
Are you denying that you wrote this?
Not only are you recommending something that is very dangerous to someones health but you are totally and completely wrong about everything you said here.
You are giving dangerous advice, understand now?
Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients
I said plant fat is lighter, not saturated, and has the essential nutrients.
I do not deny I said this.
And in context, I said, don't eat fat and lower carbs, that was the take home message. The choice between fat and carbs? Answer that first please.
Edited because I think what you said speaks for itself and I don't want to be insulting.0 -
........ Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients. For more information about carbs, proteins and fat, read some of Dr. John McDougall's books and read up on his opinion on the carbs vs protein debate.
do you have decent research that shows this? Evidence that animal fat is BAD?
This is so wrong on so many levels it hurts to read it. Animal fat is very high is all kinds of great amino acids and minerals. A person can live on 80%+ fat and live a quite healthy lifestyle. Don't just spew out crap you have learned from old dogma. There is so much new research out there to disprove your assumptions about animal fats and proteins. Geez.0 -
Don't be too short with the guy. Let's not forget that you've spewed out NEW dogma that is unfounded in science.This is so wrong on so many levels it hurts to read it. Animal fat is very high is all kinds of great amino acids and minerals. A person can live on 80%+ fat and live a quite healthy lifestyle. Don't just spew out crap you have learned from old dogma. There is so much new research out there to disprove your assumptions about animal fats and proteins. Geez.
The guy is at very least calm and being respectful. He's not lashing out.0 -
As adults, we don't need fat (not as much as the American culture is consuming) and I did say our body uses 10% of fat, we need little protein unless you are the exception (like body building). And I did say to go to a nutritionist/doctor to determine YOUR protein needs. I think however, I can generalize and say that fat is bad. I'll make another generalization and say that refined sugar is bad as well.
But you're WRONG. If fat is bad then we must postulate that no fat is good. So if I eat no fat I will live a happy and healthy life. Epic Fail. We do most certainly need fat.
I can agree with you on the refined sugar. But it tastes SO GOOOOD
I am replying, giving you folks urls to look up. Please back up your claims as well. Dr. Atkins is the meat only doctor so I suggest you listen to the interview and we can talk afterwards about fat and sugar. Dr. Atkins does say that fat and sugar is bad.
You are so far from the truth is is hilarious! Dr Atkins is not a meat only doctor. His diet starts out at 20 grams of carbohydrate to start to get the body into ketosis and then gradually increases carbs until you reach a critical limit to continue to lose weight and or maintain your weight loss. Some people are able to eat over 100 grams a day some cannot because of metabolic disturbances within their own bodies. The real breakdown for Atkins is 70% fat-25% protein-5% carbs. It works. It is sustainable.0 -
I said that 90% of fat eaten is stored on your body as fat. 10% therefore is used so, yes, fat is needed. But as the statistics show, 1/3 of Americans are overweight and 1/3 are obese. So do you tell them to eat fat? As I said, most here are here to lose fat so we can lose weight so we can be healthy again. I never said as a healthy person don't eat avocados and almonds and olive oil. Please check out the amount of fat there is in those three products and tell me, would you tell someone who just finished his or her work out to eat fat to eat back their calories?
Would you eat fat after your work-out? What is the point of exercise then?
I lost 80 lbs while eating 70% dietary fat. By your assumptions I should have gained weight. I lost steadily and my lipid panels all came down from out of whack to within optimal ranges. My blood pressure is now normal and my blood glucose which was borderline high is now controlled.0 -
Hi, okay. I can respect your opinion. Can you forward me information on what the new literature states?
I am always willing to learn more about what is healthy.
Thank you.
Here's a good start: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763382/
This has some good insight, too: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18635428
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21437105
And this is a short (maybe 15 minute read total) 2-part series that EVERYONE should read if they want to learn more regarding dietary fat: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-1.html
(And for the record - I am not a low carb eater.)
Hi, this will be my last response as I presume we have our differences of opinion. Thank you for the urls. I have been reading them and came across this quote.
"But not all individuals are lean, active athletes who are eating lots of fruits and vegetables who are in caloric balance. For someone who is overweight (which is an inflammatory state in and of itself), inactive (which has a host of negative health effects), is under a lot of stress, not eating sufficient fruits and vegetables, etc. , saturated fats may have a very different impact on the body."
This was http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-2.html under the saturated fat. So we do agree that saturated fat is bad for those that are unhealthy.
Also:
"In any case, finishing up, saturated fats are found more or less exclusively in animal source products and are typically solid at room temperature. A couple of odd exceptions are coconut and palm kernel oil (both of which contain a lot of saturated fat but primarily in the form of medium chain triglycerides, discussed below). As well, milk fat contains a decent amount of saturated fat.
From a body fat perspective, it’s at least worth mentioning that saturated fats tend to be stored a bit more easily than polyunsaturated fats (more accurately, when polyunsaturated fats are consumed, the body tends to burn them off a bit more readily) but the effect is not massive."
So, in end, thanks for the urls/information, I will look through them all because I do want to learn and this exchange is always good. Even if some do not see it that way.0 -
The following link is from Stanford Medical School. It is a study comparing low fat to high fat diets. Guess which one wins in the category of health benefits?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo&feature=player_embedded#at=1466 0 -
Anything is bad in uncontrolled, sedentary, hypercaloric settings. Eating too much broccoli can be bad under the right circumstances, and saturated fat is no different. If you eat saturated fat in a healthy diet with an active lifestyle, it has benefits. If you eat it in an unhealthy diet with a sedentary lifestyle, it lacks benefits and poses problems. This is the case with the vast majority of food out there.Hi, this will be my last response as I presume we have our differences of opinion. Thank you for the urls. I have been reading them and came across this quote.
"But not all individuals are lean, active athletes who are eating lots of fruits and vegetables who are in caloric balance. For someone who is overweight (which is an inflammatory state in and of itself), inactive (which has a host of negative health effects), is under a lot of stress, not eating sufficient fruits and vegetables, etc. , saturated fats may have a very different impact on the body."
This was http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-2.html under the saturated fat. So we do agree that saturated fat is bad for those that are unhealthy.
Also:
"In any case, finishing up, saturated fats are found more or less exclusively in animal source products and are typically solid at room temperature. A couple of odd exceptions are coconut and palm kernel oil (both of which contain a lot of saturated fat but primarily in the form of medium chain triglycerides, discussed below). As well, milk fat contains a decent amount of saturated fat.
From a body fat perspective, it’s at least worth mentioning that saturated fats tend to be stored a bit more easily than polyunsaturated fats (more accurately, when polyunsaturated fats are consumed, the body tends to burn them off a bit more readily) but the effect is not massive."
So, in end, thanks for the urls/information, I will look through them all because I do want to learn and this exchange is always good. Even if some do not see it that way.
I would highly suggest looking more into research. Remember that whenever you want to research a topic, you should ALWAYS be trying to prove yourself wrong. So your belief is "dietary fat is bad." The first thing you should do is hit pubmed.com or Google Scholar or something and search for "dietary fat benefits" or something along those lines. The research is overwhelming in this subject area.0
This discussion has been closed.
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