Problem with carbs

mynameisuntz

I wasn't disagreeing with you. But as an overweight person who needs to eat back their calories, would you eat fat or something else? The original post was that he was concerned with being over in carbs and was thinking of upping protein and fat and was asking for information.

My point is, if you are going to exercise to lose weight (fat and not muscle), why would you eat fatty foods? Again, if you are healthy, go ahead and eat a balanced meal. So I am not a either one way or nothing IF you are healthy.

If you're in a caloric deficit, the dietary fat you eat will be burned off regardless. You're focusing too much on the short-term effects of dietary fat. Yes, a large amount of it will be stored, but if you're in a deficit at the end of the day, then guess what? NET fat loss.

Markers of health improve almost entirely irrespective of fat consumption. The organizations you are referencing are living in the past. Unfortunately such organizations can be quite stubborn when it comes to updating their views. The literature clearly shows the benefits and severe lack of harm in a moderate/high fat diet regarding general health AND body composition.

Chuckw40

Rae, I would encourage you to do your own research and find out what the body uses for energy first: carbs or fat (google search it and you'll find out that the body uses carbs for energy and then fat and then muscle). You will also find out that adults need very little protein (unless you are rebuilding muscle) and so you should check with a professional (nutrionist/trainer) what your specific protein needs are as you are exercising. But generally speaking, adults do not need a lot of protein, not when you compare it to our need for carbohydrates. Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients. For more information about carbs, proteins and fat, read some of Dr. John McDougall's books and read up on his opinion on the carbs vs protein debate.

Good health to you.

I would love to see you go up against some of the low carb zealots here...honestly, it would be fun to watch...lol. At least you are of the understanding that when carbs are ingested and insulin goes up, your body is still burning energy....just not from lipids.

I said earlier that a high protein/low carb no carb diet works, I have no doubt and gave a podcast url where Dr. Atkins talks to Dr. McDougall where they discuss their diametrically opposed diets and how they both agree that for overweight people, fat and refined sugar is the enemy and should be restricted.

I personally stopped eating meat because I am worried about other things. But this is because I am not healthy and I am overweight. When I talk to someone on this forum, I assume that people are overweight and want to lose weight and by that, lose fat.

So, if I had to chose from foods high in carbs but low in fat and foods high in fat and low in carbs, I would pick high in carbs but low in fat.

It's funny how your stance keeps changing. At first you recommended that the OP eat no fat at all, which would lead to death by the way. I submit that you have no idea what you are talking about and no one should listen to anything you say.

taem

I wasn't disagreeing with you. But as an overweight person who needs to eat back their calories, would you eat fat or something else? The original post was that he was concerned with being over in carbs and was thinking of upping protein and fat and was asking for information.

My point is, if you are going to exercise to lose weight (fat and not muscle), why would you eat fatty foods? Again, if you are healthy, go ahead and eat a balanced meal. So I am not a either one way or nothing IF you are healthy.

If you're in a caloric deficit, the dietary fat you eat will be burned off regardless. You're focusing too much on the short-term effects of dietary fat. Yes, a large amount of it will be stored, but if you're in a deficit at the end of the day, then guess what? NET fat loss.

Markers of health improve almost entirely irrespective of fat consumption. The organizations you are referencing are living in the past. Unfortunately such organizations can be quite stubborn when it comes to updating their views. The literature clearly shows the benefits and severe lack of harm in a moderate/high fat diet regarding general health AND body composition.

Hi, okay. I can respect your opinion. Can you forward me information on what the new literature states?

I am always willing to learn more about what is healthy.

Thank you.

taem

Rae, I would encourage you to do your own research and find out what the body uses for energy first: carbs or fat (google search it and you'll find out that the body uses carbs for energy and then fat and then muscle). You will also find out that adults need very little protein (unless you are rebuilding muscle) and so you should check with a professional (nutrionist/trainer) what your specific protein needs are as you are exercising. But generally speaking, adults do not need a lot of protein, not when you compare it to our need for carbohydrates. Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients. For more information about carbs, proteins and fat, read some of Dr. John McDougall's books and read up on his opinion on the carbs vs protein debate.

Good health to you.

I would love to see you go up against some of the low carb zealots here...honestly, it would be fun to watch...lol. At least you are of the understanding that when carbs are ingested and insulin goes up, your body is still burning energy....just not from lipids.

I said earlier that a high protein/low carb no carb diet works, I have no doubt and gave a podcast url where Dr. Atkins talks to Dr. McDougall where they discuss their diametrically opposed diets and how they both agree that for overweight people, fat and refined sugar is the enemy and should be restricted.

I personally stopped eating meat because I am worried about other things. But this is because I am not healthy and I am overweight. When I talk to someone on this forum, I assume that people are overweight and want to lose weight and by that, lose fat.

So, if I had to chose from foods high in carbs but low in fat and foods high in fat and low in carbs, I would pick high in carbs but low in fat.

It's funny how your stance keeps changing. At first you recommended that the OP eat no fat at all, which would lead to death by the way. I submit that you have no idea what you are talking about and no one should listen to anything you say.

Hi,

I did say that the plant fat is essential, or did you not want to recognize that? I know that I said that no fat is good for you and again, I am assuming that most here have lots of fat already and we don't need to consume more of it especially if it is in comparison with carbs. More fat or more carbs?

Thanks.

Chuckw40

Actually, you said,

Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients

Are you denying that you wrote this?

Not only are you recommending something that is very dangerous to someones health but you are totally and completely wrong about everything you said here.

You are giving dangerous advice, understand now?

mynameisnutz

Hi,

I did say that the plant fat is essential, or did you not want to recognize that? I know that I said that no fat is good for you and again, I am assuming that most here have lots of fat already and we don't need to consume more of it especially if it is in comparison with carbs. More fat or more carbs?

Thanks.

n-6 to n-3 ratio gets blown out of the water if all you consume are plant lipids. That's not a good thing.

As far as things you've said that are incorrect or woefully outdated... where do I start? How about an easy one first- olive oil is 149% fat. Think about it.

Chuckw40

Rae, I would encourage you to do your own research and find out what the body uses for energy first: carbs or fat (google search it and you'll find out that the body uses carbs for energy and then fat and then muscle). You will also find out that adults need very little protein (unless you are rebuilding muscle) and so you should check with a professional (nutrionist/trainer) what your specific protein needs are as you are exercising. But generally speaking, adults do not need a lot of protein, not when you compare it to our need for carbohydrates. Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients. For more information about carbs, proteins and fat, read some of Dr. John McDougall's books and read up on his opinion on the carbs vs protein debate.

Good health to you.

I would love to see you go up against some of the low carb zealots here...honestly, it would be fun to watch...lol. At least you are of the understanding that when carbs are ingested and insulin goes up, your body is still burning energy....just not from lipids.

I said earlier that a high protein/low carb no carb diet works, I have no doubt and gave a podcast url where Dr. Atkins talks to Dr. McDougall where they discuss their diametrically opposed diets and how they both agree that for overweight people, fat and refined sugar is the enemy and should be restricted.

I personally stopped eating meat because I am worried about other things. But this is because I am not healthy and I am overweight. When I talk to someone on this forum, I assume that people are overweight and want to lose weight and by that, lose fat.

So, if I had to chose from foods high in carbs but low in fat and foods high in fat and low in carbs, I would pick high in carbs but low in fat.

It's funny how your stance keeps changing. At first you recommended that the OP eat no fat at all, which would lead to death by the way. I submit that you have no idea what you are talking about and no one should listen to anything you say.

Hi,

I did say that the plant fat is essential, or did you not want to recognize that? I know that I said that no fat is good for you and again, I am assuming that most here have lots of fat already and we don't need to consume more of it especially if it is in comparison with carbs. More fat or more carbs?

Thanks.

Please just stop posting.

taem

Actually, you said,

Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients

Are you denying that you wrote this?

Not only are you recommending something that is very dangerous to someones health but you are totally and completely wrong about everything you said here.

You are giving dangerous advice, understand now?

Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients

I said plant fat is lighter, not saturated, and has the essential nutrients.

I do not deny I said this.

And in context, I said, don't eat fat and lower carbs, that was the take home message. The choice between fat and carbs? Answer that first please.

taem

Hi,

I did say that the plant fat is essential, or did you not want to recognize that? I know that I said that no fat is good for you and again, I am assuming that most here have lots of fat already and we don't need to consume more of it especially if it is in comparison with carbs. More fat or more carbs?

Thanks.

n-6 to n-3 ratio gets blown out of the water if all you consume are plant lipids. That's not a good thing.

As far as things you've said that are incorrect or woefully outdated... where do I start? How about an easy one first- olive oil is 149% fat. Think about it.

Then I will apologize as I received that data from an independent source.

stanvoodoo

If you want to limit the carbs, eliminate having bread and pasta in the same meal, they are both big carbs.

As for the protien, it is NOT high and is just in the medium range, a bit higher would be ok. I do 80-100 as per my Dr.

Keep to the calories the Dr ordered and you can move down some as you need to.

Watch the water, that is getting high and you can drink too much water, 64oz is the recommended daily amount.

Best of luck and Keep up posted

mynameisnutz

Hi,

I did say that the plant fat is essential, or did you not want to recognize that? I know that I said that no fat is good for you and again, I am assuming that most here have lots of fat already and we don't need to consume more of it especially if it is in comparison with carbs. More fat or more carbs?

Thanks.

n-6 to n-3 ratio gets blown out of the water if all you consume are plant lipids. That's not a good thing.

As far as things you've said that are incorrect or woefully outdated... where do I start? How about an easy one first- olive oil is 149% fat. Think about it.

Then I will apologize as I received that data from an independent source.

Yes, so basically you're regurgitating the first thing you read/hear on the internet, even if it makes absolutely no sense at all. Think about how it's possible for something to me more than 100% of anything. I'll give you a hint- it's not.

mynameisuntz

Hi, okay. I can respect your opinion. Can you forward me information on what the new literature states?

I am always willing to learn more about what is healthy.

Thank you.

Here's a good start: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763382/
This has some good insight, too: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18635428
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21437105

And this is a short (maybe 15 minute read total) 2-part series that EVERYONE should read if they want to learn more regarding dietary fat: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-1.html

(And for the record - I am not a low carb eater.)

Chuckw40

Actually, you said,

Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients

Are you denying that you wrote this?

Not only are you recommending something that is very dangerous to someones health but you are totally and completely wrong about everything you said here.

You are giving dangerous advice, understand now?

Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients

I said plant fat is lighter, not saturated, and has the essential nutrients.

I do not deny I said this.

And in context, I said, don't eat fat and lower carbs, that was the take home message. The choice between fat and carbs? Answer that first please.

Edited because I think what you said speaks for itself and I don't want to be insulting.

LaJauna

........ Lastly, do not consume (any) type of fat, especially animal fat. Animal fat is a denser fat compared to vegetable fat and it offers nothing in terms of "essentials" whereas plant fat is "lighter" (not saturated) and has the essential nutrients. For more information about carbs, proteins and fat, read some of Dr. John McDougall's books and read up on his opinion on the carbs vs protein debate.

do you have decent research that shows this? Evidence that animal fat is BAD?

This is so wrong on so many levels it hurts to read it. Animal fat is very high is all kinds of great amino acids and minerals. A person can live on 80%+ fat and live a quite healthy lifestyle. Don't just spew out crap you have learned from old dogma. There is so much new research out there to disprove your assumptions about animal fats and proteins. Geez.

mynameisuntz

This is so wrong on so many levels it hurts to read it. Animal fat is very high is all kinds of great amino acids and minerals. A person can live on 80%+ fat and live a quite healthy lifestyle. Don't just spew out crap you have learned from old dogma. There is so much new research out there to disprove your assumptions about animal fats and proteins. Geez.

Don't be too short with the guy. Let's not forget that you've spewed out NEW dogma that is unfounded in science.

The guy is at very least calm and being respectful. He's not lashing out.

LaJauna

As adults, we don't need fat (not as much as the American culture is consuming) and I did say our body uses 10% of fat, we need little protein unless you are the exception (like body building). And I did say to go to a nutritionist/doctor to determine YOUR protein needs. I think however, I can generalize and say that fat is bad. I'll make another generalization and say that refined sugar is bad as well.

But you're WRONG. If fat is bad then we must postulate that no fat is good. So if I eat no fat I will live a happy and healthy life. Epic Fail. We do most certainly need fat.

I can agree with you on the refined sugar. But it tastes SO GOOOOD

I am replying, giving you folks urls to look up. Please back up your claims as well. Dr. Atkins is the meat only doctor so I suggest you listen to the interview and we can talk afterwards about fat and sugar. Dr. Atkins does say that fat and sugar is bad.

You are so far from the truth is is hilarious! Dr Atkins is not a meat only doctor. His diet starts out at 20 grams of carbohydrate to start to get the body into ketosis and then gradually increases carbs until you reach a critical limit to continue to lose weight and or maintain your weight loss. Some people are able to eat over 100 grams a day some cannot because of metabolic disturbances within their own bodies. The real breakdown for Atkins is 70% fat-25% protein-5% carbs. It works. It is sustainable.

LaJauna

I said that 90% of fat eaten is stored on your body as fat. 10% therefore is used so, yes, fat is needed. But as the statistics show, 1/3 of Americans are overweight and 1/3 are obese. So do you tell them to eat fat? As I said, most here are here to lose fat so we can lose weight so we can be healthy again. I never said as a healthy person don't eat avocados and almonds and olive oil. Please check out the amount of fat there is in those three products and tell me, would you tell someone who just finished his or her work out to eat fat to eat back their calories?

Would you eat fat after your work-out? What is the point of exercise then?

I lost 80 lbs while eating 70% dietary fat. By your assumptions I should have gained weight. I lost steadily and my lipid panels all came down from out of whack to within optimal ranges. My blood pressure is now normal and my blood glucose which was borderline high is now controlled.

taem

Hi, okay. I can respect your opinion. Can you forward me information on what the new literature states?

I am always willing to learn more about what is healthy.

Thank you.

Here's a good start: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763382/
This has some good insight, too: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18635428
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21437105

And this is a short (maybe 15 minute read total) 2-part series that EVERYONE should read if they want to learn more regarding dietary fat: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-1.html

(And for the record - I am not a low carb eater.)

Hi, this will be my last response as I presume we have our differences of opinion. Thank you for the urls. I have been reading them and came across this quote.

"But not all individuals are lean, active athletes who are eating lots of fruits and vegetables who are in caloric balance. For someone who is overweight (which is an inflammatory state in and of itself), inactive (which has a host of negative health effects), is under a lot of stress, not eating sufficient fruits and vegetables, etc. , saturated fats may have a very different impact on the body."

This was http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-2.html under the saturated fat. So we do agree that saturated fat is bad for those that are unhealthy.

Also:

"In any case, finishing up, saturated fats are found more or less exclusively in animal source products and are typically solid at room temperature. A couple of odd exceptions are coconut and palm kernel oil (both of which contain a lot of saturated fat but primarily in the form of medium chain triglycerides, discussed below). As well, milk fat contains a decent amount of saturated fat.

From a body fat perspective, it’s at least worth mentioning that saturated fats tend to be stored a bit more easily than polyunsaturated fats (more accurately, when polyunsaturated fats are consumed, the body tends to burn them off a bit more readily) but the effect is not massive."

So, in end, thanks for the urls/information, I will look through them all because I do want to learn and this exchange is always good. Even if some do not see it that way.

LaJauna

The following link is from Stanford Medical School. It is a study comparing low fat to high fat diets. Guess which one wins in the category of health benefits?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo&feature=player_embedded#at=1466

mynameisuntz

Hi, this will be my last response as I presume we have our differences of opinion. Thank you for the urls. I have been reading them and came across this quote.

"But not all individuals are lean, active athletes who are eating lots of fruits and vegetables who are in caloric balance. For someone who is overweight (which is an inflammatory state in and of itself), inactive (which has a host of negative health effects), is under a lot of stress, not eating sufficient fruits and vegetables, etc. , saturated fats may have a very different impact on the body."

This was http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-2.html under the saturated fat. So we do agree that saturated fat is bad for those that are unhealthy.

Also:

"In any case, finishing up, saturated fats are found more or less exclusively in animal source products and are typically solid at room temperature. A couple of odd exceptions are coconut and palm kernel oil (both of which contain a lot of saturated fat but primarily in the form of medium chain triglycerides, discussed below). As well, milk fat contains a decent amount of saturated fat.

From a body fat perspective, it’s at least worth mentioning that saturated fats tend to be stored a bit more easily than polyunsaturated fats (more accurately, when polyunsaturated fats are consumed, the body tends to burn them off a bit more readily) but the effect is not massive."

So, in end, thanks for the urls/information, I will look through them all because I do want to learn and this exchange is always good. Even if some do not see it that way.

Anything is bad in uncontrolled, sedentary, hypercaloric settings. Eating too much broccoli can be bad under the right circumstances, and saturated fat is no different. If you eat saturated fat in a healthy diet with an active lifestyle, it has benefits. If you eat it in an unhealthy diet with a sedentary lifestyle, it lacks benefits and poses problems. This is the case with the vast majority of food out there.

I would highly suggest looking more into research. Remember that whenever you want to research a topic, you should ALWAYS be trying to prove yourself wrong. So your belief is "dietary fat is bad." The first thing you should do is hit pubmed.com or Google Scholar or something and search for "dietary fat benefits" or something along those lines. The research is overwhelming in this subject area.