The DEBUNKING thread.........myths that need to be trashed

ninerbuff

It makes you feel good too. Sometimes just a little extra confidence is all you need to push up that extra weight.

That confidence can also translate to being more effective at every day things in your life. Where people might doubt their efforts at their job, with that confidence they may be daring to think outside the box. It's really a good thing to "bump the weight" as long as your form is correct and you can handle that weight safely.

ninerbuff

When folks say you can't build muscle while in calorie deficit, they are really talking about body builders looking to gain a large amount of muscle mass.

Actually there's science to back it up from the NIH, Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness, and even the Journal of Metabolism and Endocrinology.
But keeping it simple, when you lose weight you lose fat AND lean muscle tissue. This isn't disputed. Why would it be different when you're trying to gain muscle? Anytime you try to gain muscle you will add some fat. It works both ways.
To apparently build muscle while on calorie deficit you not only have to SAVE the lean muscle you have, you have to regain the muscle you lost, then you have to build more muscle on top of the the two............all without adding extra calories. Well fat can't be converted to protein, and just eating a high protein diet (while helping to retain lean muscle) won't ensure that all that protein goes to muscle building. Problem is it doesn't. Some will be used for energy and some excreted. And again to gain muscle you would have to gain weight. To gain weight you need to eat excess calories.
So it's not just for bodybuilders, this applies to just about everyone trying to lose weight.

_Sally_

When folks say you can't build muscle while in calorie deficit, they are really talking about body builders looking to gain a large amount of muscle mass.

Actually there's science to back it up from the NIH, Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness, and even the Journal of Metabolism and Endocrinology.
But keeping it simple, when you lose weight you lose fat AND lean muscle tissue. This isn't disputed. Why would it be different when you're trying to gain muscle? Anytime you try to gain muscle you will add some fat. It works both ways.
To apparently build muscle while on calorie deficit you not only have to SAVE the lean muscle you have, you have to regain the muscle you lost, then you have to build more muscle on top of the the two............all without adding extra calories. Well fat can't be converted to protein, and just eating a high protein diet (while helping to retain lean muscle) won't ensure that all that protein goes to muscle building. Problem is it doesn't. Some will be used for energy and some excreted. And again to gain muscle you would have to gain weight. To gain weight you need to eat excess calories.
So it's not just for bodybuilders, this applies to just about everyone trying to lose weight.

Bottom line is that after losing weight, folks will want to have lost more fat than muscle and have a lower body fat percentage than when they started. I am actively losing weight and I know I look better from having done regular strength training than if I did only diet and cardio.

I think this thread started off good, but unfortunately, your more recent posts may be misinterpreted by folks and they could get discouraged rather than encouraged about strength training while they are actively trying to lose weight.

I don't think you're meaning to discourage people, but in striving to be so technically/scientifically correct (which honestly, no one is going to take the time to research this to see whether you are correct on all counts), I think the main supportive message that people need to hear is getting lost.

Just my two cents.

Ladies - Just do it! Go ahead and lift!

nyctraveler

Bump

ninerbuff

Bottom line is that after losing weight, folks will want to have lost more fat than muscle and have a lower body fat percentage than when they started. I am actively losing weight and I know I look better from having done regular strength training than if I did only diet and cardio.

I think this thread started off good, but unfortunately, your more recent posts may be misinterpreted by folks and they could get discouraged rather than encouraged about strength training while they are actively trying to lose weight.

I don't think you're meaning to discourage people, but in striving to be so technically/scientifically correct (which honestly, no one is going to take the time to research this to see whether you are correct on all counts), I think the main supportive message that people need to hear is getting lost.

Just my two cents.

Ladies - Just do it! Go ahead and lift!

I hear ya. It's not my intent to discourage nor dissuade people from continuing weight loss nor be un supportive. The intent is to clear up what the truth actually is about how the body works at weight loss. For the same people that hear that weight lifting for females will make them look muscular and manly, you will get people who know that this isn't true. The one's who think it's true will want to know why and that's where we can scientifically show it doesn't happen (unless artificial or unusual high amounts of testosterone is present) and back by clinical evidence.
I'm with you though, they should just lift and not worry about packing on a lot of muscle.

Barmcake

hmm I do tend to gain weight when I exercise, and also monitoring my food intake. To debunk the "myth" as you say you will have to tackle why that happens. Similarly, when I stop exercising as much, and monitor food intake, I often lose weight. Perhaps some women could come onto the forum and explain that, as we do have a different make-up to men.

_JuliaM_

Thanks for the info

ninerbuff

hmm I do tend to gain weight when I exercise, and also monitoring my food intake. To debunk the "myth" as you say you will have to tackle why that happens. Similarly, when I stop exercising as much, and monitor food intake, I often lose weight. Perhaps some women could come onto the forum and explain that, as we do have a different make-up to men.

I did. To repeat, weight training and exercise cause the muscles and liver to "fill" up with glycogen and water with the anticipation that energy will be needed to continue to expend that energy through exercise. Also the muscle needs excess water to repair the muscle itself. This is why there is weight gain.
When you don't exercise, the body will "note" this and not store that extra glycogen and water in the cells. This is why there is weight loss.
The body eventually adapts to CONSISTENT exercise and routine and eventually the water retention will subside.

whiskey9890

can ask if something is a myth or not please? is strength training good for bone health? i've heard in the past that it is but i've not seen it mentioned as a benefit to those who are reluctant to start lifting on here, so i thought i would ask rather than suggesting it incase it got shot down as a myth. thanks

TrainingWithTonya

can ask if something is a myth or not please? is strength training good for bone health? i've heard in the past that it is but i've not seen it mentioned as a benefit to those who are reluctant to start lifting on here, so i thought i would ask rather than suggesting it incase it got shot down as a myth. thanks

Yes, it is true. 'Weight work increases the force loads on the bones just like it does on the muscles, ligaments, and tendons. All are increased in strength as a physiological response to weight bearing activity. Some will say that walking can help increase bone density too, but the studies I've read show that weight lifting helps more.

TrainingWithTonya

hmm I do tend to gain weight when I exercise, and also monitoring my food intake. To debunk the "myth" as you say you will have to tackle why that happens. Similarly, when I stop exercising as much, and monitor food intake, I often lose weight. Perhaps some women could come onto the forum and explain that, as we do have a different make-up to men.

I did. To repeat, weight training and exercise cause the muscles and liver to "fill" up with glycogen and water with the anticipation that energy will be needed to continue to expend that energy through exercise. Also the muscle needs excess water to repair the muscle itself. This is why there is weight gain.
When you don't exercise, the body will "note" this and not store that extra glycogen and water in the cells. This is why there is weight loss.
The body eventually adapts to CONSISTENT exercise and routine and eventually the water retention will subside.

I just want to point out that this is true for both men and women. Women can store glycogen just like men. And glycogen is stored in 3x as much water as glycogen. That water is stored in the muscles and liver, not like the bloating that women associate with water retention on a monthly basis. This type of water storage is actually beneficial in future workouts to make the chemical reactions of both glycogen and fat burning easier to happen. And just FYI, men also have hormonal fluctuations each month and can retain water from it if they end up out of balance, too. It's just not seen as often in men because they normally have plenty of testosterone to balance out the estrogen so they don't have the estrogen based reactions like bloating.

ninerbuff

can ask if something is a myth or not please? is strength training good for bone health? i've heard in the past that it is but i've not seen it mentioned as a benefit to those who are reluctant to start lifting on here, so i thought i would ask rather than suggesting it incase it got shot down as a myth. thanks

Absolutely great for bone health. In fact in the Journal for Aging Studies, there are several articles that show that strength training not only builds bone strength and retards osteoarthritis, but helps to lower blood pressure.

ninerbuff

I just want to point out that this is true for both men and women. Women can store glycogen just like men. And glycogen is stored in 3x as much water as glycogen. That water is stored in the muscles and liver, not like the bloating that women associate with water retention on a monthly basis. This type of water storage is actually beneficial in future workouts to make the chemical reactions of both glycogen and fat burning easier to happen. And just FYI, men also have hormonal fluctuations each month and can retain water from it if they end up out of balance, too. It's just not seen as often in men because they normally have plenty of testosterone to balance out the estrogen so they don't have the estrogen based reactions like bloating.

Lol, Tonya I have many males friends with excess estrogen.

TrainingWithTonya

I just want to point out that this is true for both men and women. Women can store glycogen just like men. And glycogen is stored in 3x as much water as glycogen. That water is stored in the muscles and liver, not like the bloating that women associate with water retention on a monthly basis. This type of water storage is actually beneficial in future workouts to make the chemical reactions of both glycogen and fat burning easier to happen. And just FYI, men also have hormonal fluctuations each month and can retain water from it if they end up out of balance, too. It's just not seen as often in men because they normally have plenty of testosterone to balance out the estrogen so they don't have the estrogen based reactions like bloating.

Lol, Tonya I have many males friends with excess estrogen.

I don't know if you're serious or not with that statement. LOL I know a lot of men who don't believe they have any estrogen but wonder where their gynomastica came from...duh, estrogen. Between the adrenal glands being capable of producing testosterone in women and estrogen in men and the phytoestrogens in things like soy, it is possible for men to have elevated estrogen levels. If they also have low testosterone levels, then the being out of balance can cause problems.

ninerbuff

I don't know if you're serious or not with that statement. LOL I know a lot of men who don't believe they have any estrogen but wonder where their gynomastica came from...duh, estrogen. Between the adrenal glands being capable of producing testosterone in women and estrogen in men and the phytoestrogens in things like soy, it is possible for men to have elevated estrogen levels. If they also have low testosterone levels, then the being out of balance can cause problems.

Absolutely not joking. "***** tits" are common amongst some of the "juiced" people I aquaint with and also with some really overweight friends. I know how estrogen works in males and even know people on protocols taking anti estrogens.

ninerbuff

bump

hhashimi

You can do it! Start easy. Just showing up for a "workout", whether it's a short walk, a long walk or a jog with the dog is better than not doing anything. Even if I show up and do the bare minimum, I still feel glad that I went. That's the hardest part — showing up. The more you do it the easier it will be.

hhashimi

So can several shorter walks be just as beneficial when it comes to overall health as one longer walk? Say, three 10-minute walks throughout the day vs. one 30-minute walk, or six 10-minute walks vs. an hour walk?

Just even adding a 5 to 15 minute walk for people who have been sedentary for a good period of time improves their physical health.
And yes, several short walks a day add up.

Thank you for responding to this. I have to believe that doing something, even for a short period of time, is better than nothing at all. If my only choice is 45 minutes of nonstop exercise or nothing, I'll do nothing. But if I can start out with several shorter workouts, then that's doable for me and more than I was doing. It's not that I'm looking for an easy way out, it's the reality of my physical ability right now being this overweight where just walking across the room hurts some days.

You can do it! Start easy. Just showing up for a "workout", whether it's a short walk, a long walk or a jog with the dog is better than not doing anything. Even if I show up and do the bare minimum, I still feel glad that I went. That's the hardest part — showing up. The more you do it the easier it will be.

ninerbuff

You can do it! Start easy. Just showing up for a "workout", whether it's a short walk, a long walk or a jog with the dog is better than not doing anything. Even if I show up and do the bare minimum, I still feel glad that I went. That's the hardest part — showing up. The more you do it the easier it will be.

Even doing the bare minimum is the right step. Like I stated earlier, people know the benefits of exercise, so I concentrate more on the "how to" add activity rather than the benefits. If I could get a client who hates weight lifting to just do one weight lifting exercise that they semi enjoy, then that's the step in right direction.

ninerbuff

Here's another: "EATING HEALTHY FOODS WILL MAKE YOU HEALTHY".
While eating whole foods and less processed foods is more desirable, the idea that just eating "healthy" doesn't guarantee that you will be healthy. I know many, many people out there who don't eat processed foods, stick to lean meats or no meat, drink no beverages, etc. and they are OVERWEIGHT and huff and puff walking up a flight of stairs. In fact, a smoker who eats within calorie restrictions, exercises daily, does extra physical activity and gets enough rest could be deemed in better physical fitness than a healthy eater who doesn't exercise at all.
Also, genetic predisposition can affect how your health is. You can still eat healthy and have high cholesterol.

So am I anti-healthy eating? No, but I am advocating that if you AREN'T eating "clean" you still can be healthy as long as you get in your essentials, control your caloric intake, exercise daily and get the right amount of rest.

ninerbuff

bump

Schwiggity

Here's a question you might be able to answer for me. I know in a general sense about strength and muscle gains being done with a larger percentage of one's 1RM, while higher reps with a lower percentage of the 1RM helps improve muscle endurance more so. However I've also read about certain muscles (i.e. abdominal and calves usually) responding/growing better to high repetition sets. Since your a trainer, do you know if there's any truth to this?

cspence2270

wait did I read that right....you saying you burn as many calories walking the same distance as a run or did I confuse myself?

If the distance it the goal, let's say 1 mile, whether you run it or walk it the calories burned is the SAME.

I'm sorry I have to disagree with this, for me anyway. First of all I've checked this, just last week using my HRM and I burned more calories running than I did walking a lot more. Science proves this because you burn 5 calories per liter of oxygen used. You could do this but you would have to walk at the same pace as you run. I could not get my heart rate high enough just walking. When I walk it's about 125-130, running (jogging) it's 140 to 160. No matter how fast I walked I could not get into oxygen debt like I do running/jogging.

ninerbuff

Here's a question you might be able to answer for me. I know in a general sense about strength and muscle gains being done with a larger percentage of one's 1RM, while higher reps with a lower percentage of the 1RM helps improve muscle endurance more so. However I've also read about certain muscles (i.e. abdominal and calves usually) responding/growing better to high repetition sets. Since your a trainer, do you know if there's any truth to this?

Yes..........to at least one. Your calves and forearms have more muscle density (muscle per sq. inch) compared to the rest. So higher repetitions are usually needed to "force more blood" into those areas. Also with calves, you use them through regular activity throughout the day, so they are "worked" consistently. To shock them, you have to hit them with reps that it's not accustomed too. You could use really heavy weight, but 8-12 reps even with heavy weight doesn't seem to force enough blood in.
For abs, the idea is you don't want to use heavy weights because like any other muscle, the abs will expand and grow. Most people don't want a larger midsection so doing high reps for abs would reduce the chance of muscle overload.

ninerbuff

I'm sorry I have to disagree with this, for me anyway. First of all I've checked this, just last week using my HRM and I burned more calories running than I did walking a lot more. Science proves this because you burn 5 calories per liter of oxygen used. You could do this but you would have to walk at the same pace as you run. I could not get my heart rate high enough just walking. When I walk it's about 125-130, running (jogging) it's 140 to 160. No matter how fast I walked I could not get into oxygen debt like I do running/jogging.

It's been discussed further in the thread and debated whether kcal and calories are the goal. Science will prove you burn more fat calories with low intensity cardio compared to moderate cardio which will first use glycogen stores, then eventually muscle tissue if the run is long enough.
I retracted that the calorie burn is the same. It's higher with running, but then again it goes back to what kind of calories you want to burn.

ninerbuff

Whether you run an 8 min mile or walk a 20 minute mile, the calories expended at the end are the SAME. The difference is in the duration and intensity.

I have discussed this with another physics friend at UC Berkley and was corrected about this statement. Based on being "schooled" by her and James here, I have to retract this statement. I should now say that you burn approximately 50 more calories running a mile than you do walking a mile. Here is a formula I showed her and she confirmed would be correct.

You can use the formulas below to determine your calorie-burn while running and walking. The "Net Calorie Burn" measures calories burned, minus basal metabolism. Scientists consider this the best way to evaluate the actual calorie-burn of any exercise. The walking formulas apply to speeds of 3 to 4 mph. At 5 mph and faster, walking burns more calories than running.

Your Total Calorie Burn/Mile

Your Net Calorie Burn/Mile
Running

.75 x your weight (in lbs.) (total calorie burn)

.63 x your weight (net calorie burn)


Walking

.53 x your weight


.30 x your weight

LadyOfOceanBreeze

you sure do have a lot of patience with ppl who continue to argue! kudos! sheesh!!

ninerbuff

you sure do have a lot of patience with ppl who continue to argue! kudos! sheesh!!

They may have very legit points of view. I made a statement retraction because their views caused me to research more and it's important to me that I give out accurate information. Thanks.

LadyOfOceanBreeze

you sure do have a lot of patience with ppl who continue to argue! kudos! sheesh!!

They may have very legit points of view. I made a statement retraction because their views caused me to research more and it's important to me that I give out accurate information. Thanks.

sorry!

ninerbuff

YOU MUST "ALWAYS" BE IN CALORIE DEFICIT TO LOSE WEIGHT- While this would seem true based on expenditure, the human body is very unique in how it conserves energy. It's normal for you metabolic rate to slow down when your body senses calorie deficit. That's why stalls and plateaus happen. The body tries to compensate for the lower calories by reducing it's output of energy to try to conserve fat stores.
One of the best ways to "upset" this is to actually have a calorie surplus occasionally. If you've been a calorie deficit consistently for a period of time (let's say 3 months) and now have stalled, your body has adapted this pattern and compensates. So by bumping up your calories for a day or two, the body will sense the influx and will adapt by upping the metabolism. You may gain a pound or two (oooh neurotics won't like this) but once you go back to your calorie deficit, you more than likely will break that stall.