Fat Loss vs Scale Weight Loss

AZackery

Yeah, I guess that is one option. Good luck with your goal.

Hey, I want to give you something to consider. People often talk about losing 1lb of fat which as I have said also goes by the name of white adipose tissue. 1lb of fat is 454 grams but of that around 90% is lipid on average. So actually only 400 grams is stored triglycerides - TGs (what people are really seeking to lose on a fat loss routine using a process known as lipolysis.)

Therefore, even if you see a 1lb loss on the scale which ties up with maintaining LBM but losing 1lb of fat given your caliper measurements it will not all be stored TGs.

In addition as has been referenced before given the way your body partition calories 100% fat loss with no loss of LBM / muscle isn't really a physiological reality. However say you lost 90% of that 1lb as "fat" and 10% as muscle that is only 54 grams we are talking about. Therefore worrying about whether it is 100% fat loss or 90% fat loss with 10% muscle is rather pointless in practical terms.

This really goes back to my point that people who get too caught up in the numbers can miss the overall point that it is trends that are more important, not specific numbers. Just something to consider...

Michael, prior to my thread, were you familiar with the formula that helps a person tell how much of their scale weight is fat and how much is lean body mass? Have you've applied this knowledge to your weight loss or muscle gain? I don't know what you are tracking.

You don't believe that there is no way a person can lose 100% pounds of fat without losing lean body mass. Are you living proof that this is wrong?

meerkat70

You don't believe that there is no way a person can lose 100% pounds of fat without losing lean body mass. Are you living proof that this is wrong?

Are you living proof that this is right?

It's a physiological impossibility. Of course you will mostly lose fat. Frankly you will mostly lose fat on almost any weightloss programme. Minimising the loss of muscle is of course a sensible plan. But you cannot lose fat without losing some of the stuff that goes along with it, no.

tigersword

It's scientifically proven fact. That's how the human body works. It is physically impossible to lose only fat, because the human body splits it's energy needs between calories ingested, fat stores, and excess muscle. When the body burns fat, it only burns a certain percentage of fat before it switches to breaking down muscle to burn as energy. It depends on various factors, including genetics, intensity of activity, and duration of activity Fat stores are an essential part of the body,as they are responsible for storage and creation of many different hormones that regulate body function, so the body is very stubborn about burning too much at one time.

That said, calculating your lean body mass is NOT a very good indicator as to whether you have gained or lost muscle, as lean body mass includes bone density, water, internal organs, skin, just about all of which can vary in weight at different times. Just because you haven't lost lean body mass doesn't mean you haven't lost muscle, as you may have become more active, and have a larger glycogen store in your muscles, which requires more water in your muscles, which will add to lean body mass. You could also be doing weight bearing exercises that increase bone density, that can also lead to increases in lean body mass. By the same token, not all loss of lean body mass is muscle.

AZackery

That said, calculating your lean body mass is NOT a very good indicator as to whether you have gained or lost muscle, as lean body mass includes bone density, water, internal organs, skin, just about all of which can vary in weight at different times. Just because you haven't lost lean body mass doesn't mean you haven't lost muscle, as you may have become more active, and have a larger glycogen store in your muscles, which requires more water in your muscles, which will add to lean body mass. You could also be doing weight bearing exercises that increase bone density, that can also lead to increases in lean body mass. By the same token, not all loss of lean body mass is muscle.

Tigersword, how can a person tell when they have gained or lost muscles? Is there a formula they use or do they just guess?

myofibril

Michael, prior to my thread, were you familiar with the formula that helps a person tell how much of their scale weight is fat and how much is lean body mass? Have you've applied this knowledge to your weight loss or muscle gain? I don't know what you are tracking.

I have in the past. At one point in my life get sub 10% body fat was important to me so I was tracking my LBM and fat mass in the way that you described.

I don't really do that anymore. Now, I focus on more meaningful goals, well to me at least. I track how my lifts are progressing, average wattage when I am rowing etc. Fitness goals NOT physique goals because the content of my training is geared towards that.

You don't believe that there is no way a person can lose 100% pounds of fat without losing lean body mass. Are you living proof that this is wrong?

It's not a question of what I believe. Anecdotal evidence doesn't carry much weight in comparison to science. There is no way, certainly in all the research I have read that you can lose nothing other than fat on a fat loss routine. You can reduce the amount of muscle you sacrifice to a small percentage, depending on your genetics, to the point where it is almost the same as 100% but not ACTUALLY 100%.

I have always lost some muscle / LBM on a cut. However, I can if I wanted to minimise that to a very small degree. If I could be bothered. Which is usually not.

Ok, I gotta go. It's been emotional

tigersword

That said, calculating your lean body mass is NOT a very good indicator as to whether you have gained or lost muscle, as lean body mass includes bone density, water, internal organs, skin, just about all of which can vary in weight at different times. Just because you haven't lost lean body mass doesn't mean you haven't lost muscle, as you may have become more active, and have a larger glycogen store in your muscles, which requires more water in your muscles, which will add to lean body mass. You could also be doing weight bearing exercises that increase bone density, that can also lead to increases in lean body mass. By the same token, not all loss of lean body mass is muscle.

Tigersword, how can a person tell when they have gained or lost muscles? Is there a formula they use or do they just guess?

Hydrostatic weighing is really the only way to know for sure. Muscle, water, bone, fat all have different densities and they can utilize hydrostatic weighing to figure out the differences. To anyone who isn't a professional bodybuilder, fat percentage is really the only number that matters. I really don't care what the scale says, when I get to my goal body fat I'm done, doesn't matter if I end up weighing 200, 190, 170, or 150. It is what it is.

AZackery

Hydrostatic weighing is really the only way to know for sure. Muscle, water, bone, fat all have different densities and they can utilize hydrostatic weighing to figure out the differences. To anyone who isn't a professional bodybuilder, fat percentage is really the only number that matters. I really don't care what the scale says, when I get to my goal body fat I'm done, doesn't matter if I end up weighing 200, 190, 170, or 150. It is what it is.

Tigerswood, let me see if I'm am understanding you. You are saying that if a person wants to know if they have gained or lost muscles, they would have to get a hydrostatic testing done.

Bodybuilders follow the formula that I have shown in my original post, which is:

Weight x body fat percentage = pounds of fat
Weight - pounds of fat = lean body mass

Bodybuilders tend to use a caliper to track their progress. I have not come across a bodybuilder yet that has stated that in order to find out how much muscles you have gained or loss, you have to get a hydrostatic test done.

Thanks, but I'm going to stick to the formula above.

tigersword

Lean body mass is more than just muscle. Lean body mass is EVERYTHING in your body except fat. You can estimate using a body fat calculation, but saying you have 174 pounds of LBM one measurement, and 175 pounds of LBM the next time, you cannot, without hydrostatic testing, know with 100% certainty that that one pound gain is muscle. It's impossible. It could be any combination of muscle, skin, bone, and water.

And that is my point. It doesn't matter. The only number that matters to me is body fat %. Because I am not a professional competitive bodybuilder, and I do not need to add a specific amount of muscle to my body in order to compete in competitions. Most bodybuilders don't know with 100% certainty either, unless they are actively competing, then they may have themselves checked.

How many professional competitive body builders do you know, anyway?

AZackery

Lean body mass is more than just muscle. Lean body mass is EVERYTHING in your body except fat. You can estimate using a body fat calculation, but saying you have 174 pounds of LBM one measurement, and 175 pounds of LBM the next time, you cannot, without hydrostatic testing, know with 100% certainty that that one pound gain is muscle. It's impossible. It could be any combination of muscle, skin, bone, and water.

And that is my point. It doesn't matter. The only number that matters to me is body fat %. Because I am not a professional competitive bodybuilder, and I do not need to add a specific amount of muscle to my body in order to compete in competitions. Most bodybuilders don't know with 100% certainty either, unless they are actively competing, then they may have themselves checked.

How many professional competitive body builders do you know, anyway?

I know what lean body mass is. As for hydrostatic testing, to my knowledge, its a test to determine a person's body fat percentage.

Tigersworld, have you had a hydrostatic test done or more than one? If so, what information does the test print out or tester write on your information sheet? Weight, pounds of fat, pounds of muscles, pounds of bones, etc.?

I'm aiming to lose fat. That's my focus. I have a body fat percentage goal.

tigersword

Then body fat percentage should be your focus, and the rest of it shouldn't make a difference.

bulmanb2

Hi thanks for the information I just have a couple of questions about scale weight and body fat %

I started my weight loss journey on the 9/1/14 at 16 stone 11 lbs with a body fat % of 39.4
17/1/14 at 16 stone 10 lbs with a body fat % of 39.4 - 1lb scale weight loss no body fat
25/1/14 at 16 stone 10 lbs with a body fat % of 38.2 - no scale weight loss but a 1.2 % fat

I have been following a very healthy diet and per week doing x2 resistance training sessions with a personal training as well as x2 cardio sessions on my own. The results on the scales are disheartening but I'm pleased with the fat loss percentage. Do these readings mean that my lean body mass is higher as I'm a bit confused.

Thanks
Beth