Show me the "facts"

sh0ck

So I just finished watching the documentary "Fat Head" on Netflix. I can say that while I have read a lot of things, I have never seen a movie that goes so far against what I have seen/heard/attempted to live my entire life. This is, of course, not to say that everything that went on in the movie is right, correct, or factual, but it brought up an interesting thought.

Why do you all believe in what you believe in? Right now I am mainly referring to your health/diet/food choices but the question can be translated to all parts of life. Why do you do what you do?

Paleo? HCG? Low-fat? Low-sugar? Calories in - Calories out?

Why did you all start doing what you are currently doing? Did you hear it from a friend? On TV? Read an article?


And here is a challenge for you all. Can you provide me with some proof or give me some links to whatever your reason is? Scholarly articles would be preferred but really, why are you doing what you are doing and what made you start with doing it? For almost every argument there exists a counter-argument so how do you respond to the counter-arguments against what you are currently doing?

This can be an uncomfortable exercise (it definitely was for me when I watched this movie). I am not stating that what you believe in is right/wrong. I am simply expressing my desire for people to be educated consumers of information. If you are already, then GREAT for you! If you aren't, then I implore that you stretch your boundaries a bit and explore this thought.

zeeeb

i do the portion control / calorie control and exercise... and the 80% / 20% rule (eat well and exercise 80% of the time and the rest should look after itself) because it's the only way really.

after trying atkins and realising it is totally stupid to think i can carry on doing that forever, i figured i'd go with what all the big players say (ie jenny craig (portion control / calorie control, weight watchers (portion control, calorie control, and most GPs will also tell you to watch the portions and calories), so i figure that the way to go. there are no stupid ridiculous rules, you eat healthy food, you don't overeat in portions, you treat yourself, but control the portions, and exercise. More fresh unprocessed foods, less processed foods, salts and sugars.

you can have a treat without having to go through an induction phase or a detox phase and just get on with life the very next day. you can go on a holiday, have a few drinks, whatever, and get straight back into it. you can eat at other people's houses or at restaurants without having to do an hours study of the menu before ordering a lettuce and cucumber salad...

I think it's just plain logic!

aa1440

Why don't you start? Why do you do what you do? (Not being mean. I think people would respond if you let them know what you are looking for.

sconns21

Documentaries are great but one of the worst things about them is that they show a biased view of whatever it is that they are promoting. It's amazing how convincing they can be by showing things in a certain way. Mind you I haven't seen the documentary only read the "about the film" part of the website.

It's scientific if you put more energy into your body than you burn you're going to gain weight if you put in less you will lose weight. All the weird and wonderful diets that are about are just a variation on this. You just have to ignore all the hype and criticism and use your own judgement and common sense.

I think the guy in the documentary is just trying to say lets not all get obsessed about our weight or live in fear for our health. It may not be that responsible of him though to let people who aren't very aware of good nutrition to think they can carry on eating whatever they want and still be slim, fit and healthy.

sh0ck

For me I have been trying to do the:

- Exercise 1+ hours a day
- Eat less processed foods
- Limiting my (processed) sugar intake
- Eating more whole grains
- Eating lower-fat foods
- Eating more fruits and vegetables
- Focusing a lot on trying to meet my macronutrients (Protein, Carbs, Fat)


Why do I do this? Because I have heard a lot of people say that it is the way to go and that it is the "healthiest" way to live. I haven't really done too much research on why I do what I do though. I will be the first to admit that hearing it from other people is where I have received most of my information.

sh0ck

Documentaries are great but one of the worst things about them is that they show a biased view of whatever it is that they are promoting. It's amazing how convincing they can be by showing things in a certain way. Mind you I haven't seen the documentary only read the "about the film" part of the website.

It's scientific if you put more energy into your body than you burn you're going to gain weight if you put in less you will lose weight. All the weird and wonderful diets that are about are just a variation on this. You just have to ignore all the hype and criticism and use your own judgement and common sense.

I think the guy in the documentary is just trying to say lets not all get obsessed about our weight or live in fear for our health. It may not be that responsible of him though to let people who aren't very aware of good nutrition to think they can carry on eating whatever they want and still be slim, fit and healthy.

I love documentaries (and also hate them) because of how extremely biased they are. I love them because they generally have a far out, but still at least a LITTLE bit based in fact, point. I hate them because it is easy to get sucked in to what they are saying.

My whole point is just that. So much information is thrown around and is VERY biased (especially when money is to be made) so all I am attempting to do is to get people to take a step back and THINK about what they are doing. I am not asking them to change, I am not asking them to stay the same. I am simply asking them to THINK about why they do what they do and what the reason is for doing it.


You say in your post that it is "scientific" that if you put more energy in than you expend then you will gain weight. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you. My desire is not to call you out but is to see if I can get some, at least SOMEWHAT, scientific backing behind a lot of these "tenants of health" that most of us hold so dear.

zeeeb

but isn't that just logic, eating well and exercising... don't we all know it deep down what we should eat? vs what we want to indulge in. it's not rocket science, it's more about self control and discipline than lack of knowledge, surely?

i hate it when i went to GPs and asked for help with weight loss (because it was being a lazy glutton) and they wanted me to see a nutritionist... I was like "i know what i should eat, i don't need spend hundreds of $$ being told what i should be eating, it's all about my lack of self control and uncontrollable appetite".

and now that i've lost alot of my excess weight, i feel the same, i knew what i should eat, i always did, a nutritionist wasn't going to help me at all, i had to decide to go without all the sweet fatty foods i loved.

TheGlen

I've just started on the "Paleo" diet/lifestyle. Although I'm not completely strict (yet), I'm in the process of eliminating grains, along with dairy and processed foods. If you'd like to read a bit about it, this seems like a pretty good post that explains a lot of the common questions; http://www.fitbomb.com/p/why-i-eat-paleo.html .

Moving to the Paleo diet all at once can feel a bit extreme, so here is a post from a guy who suggests a 12 step process to make changes in a less dramatic fashion; http://www.archevore.com/get-started .

Like many lifestyles/diets, you will see responses from both ends of the spectrum on this one; some people feel it's the obvious best choice, and others will think it's completely nuts.

stevenleagle

ShOCk, I see you are a man on a mission. I deduce from your post and your profile that you are a statistician or someone that likes working with facts? You do make some good points. Unfortunately as you are probably all too painfully aware, even many so called experts like to flip flop in their opinions from time to time. I have to tend to agree with Zeeb then... using your own common sense and logic is important. That's not to say that consulting "experts" or reading widely is a waste of time either. Experts are experts because they are presumably learned in their field. At the end of the day I do what works for me. If I read something and experiment and find that it works, then it works! Personally I am finding that restricting portion sizes and exercising more works for me at the moment. It just works (for me). However for me weight loss (or anything else for that matter) is not simply about knowing what to do, its about actually planning it, doing it (action stage) and measuring it! There is a mental element of course. Without motivation for example, you won't start. Without planning, you won't know where you are going. Without recording and measuring, you won't know how you are progressing. One thing I give MFP a lot of credit for is that for the first time, I can actually measure my own results and get my own facts and draw my own conclusions! Priceless information!

PS doesnt your ticker show you are on the right track?

TavistockToad

So I just finished watching the documentary "Fat Head" on Netflix. I can say that while I have read a lot of things, I have never seen a movie that goes so far against what I have seen/heard/attempted to live my entire life. This is, of course, not to say that everything that went on in the movie is right, correct, or factual, but it brought up an interesting thought.

Why do you all believe in what you believe in? Right now I am mainly referring to your health/diet/food choices but the question can be translated to all parts of life. Why do you do what you do?

Paleo? HCG? Low-fat? Low-sugar? Calories in - Calories out?

Why did you all start doing what you are currently doing? Did you hear it from a friend? On TV? Read an article?


And here is a challenge for you all. Can you provide me with some proof or give me some links to whatever your reason is? Scholarly articles would be preferred but really, why are you doing what you are doing and what made you start with doing it? For almost every argument there exists a counter-argument so how do you respond to the counter-arguments against what you are currently doing?

This can be an uncomfortable exercise (it definitely was for me when I watched this movie). I am not stating that what you believe in is right/wrong. I am simply expressing my desire for people to be educated consumers of information. If you are already, then GREAT for you! If you aren't, then I implore that you stretch your boundaries a bit and explore this thought.

the only proof i have is how i look and how i feel now, compared to how i felt and looked before i started a healthier lifestyle. I have learnt SOOOOOOOOOOO much from MFP, and have taken on board the things that work for me. I could tell you what i do (the gist being eat healthily and exercising roughly 5 times per week) but everyone is different, and you have to find what works for you.

I work with 2 basic principles, eat less, exercise more, and the 80/20 rule. but thats just me!

ziggylove

I've only just started being more serious about losing some weight, but calorie math and eating sensibly in moderation make the most logical sense to me. I'm leaning more towards trying to eat as fresh as possible (fewer processed foods), though admittedly laziness and cheapness makes that part more of a challenge.

Also, I fondly think back on my college days when I had to walk or ride my bike everywhere I needed to go (no car because neither my parents nor I could afford that) and I had the time (and immediately accessible trails/paths) to rollerblade nearly 2 hours every day, not to mention a very healthy 20 year old metabolism. Things really changed a few years after graduation when the full time job thing kicked its way deeper and deeper into my life. And today it just continues: spending most of my time either behind a computer screen or commuting, with the next largest time chunk being sleeping. It is normal I suppose, but it amazes me how something as nondescript as an office job can create such a huge need for self-discipline in other parts of life (diet choices and exercising) in order to stay healthy.

sh0ck

@stevenleagle - I am beginning to fear that my original post came across too harsh/demanding. I am simply interested in seeing where everyone is coming from and why they do it. As I have said, I am not here to call anyone out or say that what anyone is doing is wrong, I am just interested in the reasoning behind it.

I very much agree that "common sense" plays a big part in living a healthy lifestyle. I am not sure that you can find anyone on this Earth that will argue that at least moderate exercise is bad for you. A lot of the ambiguity comes about in the more refined elements of the so-called "healthy" lifestyle. More fat or less fat? Vegan or paleo? Carbs or protein?


@TheGlen - I will check those websites out. I have seen a lot of people posting on here about the Paleo lifestyle and I don't know too much about it. I would be interested in at least seeing what some of the arguments are for it.

@TavistockToad - Results are definitely one of the best ways to determine whether or not a specific set of actions is working. However, you had to begin on that set of actions at some point. I am interested in where that original spark began in your mind.

CARNAT22

My method is eat less, move more.

It is simple and effective.

asyouseefit

I believe in healthy eating and exercising. I believe in a lifestyle you can maintain your whole life, with the occasional treat. Everything that suggests to stop eating one food or one group of food, I don't believe in. Fad diets/detox/cleanses/fasts, I don't believe in.

Healthy eating: loads of veggies/fruit, whole grains, lean cuts of meat, fish, eggs dairy, good fats, legumes... If you choose to abstain from meat/fish/dairy/eggs for religious/environmental reasons, that's fine by me but cutting them off completely for health reasons, I don't really see the point. Of course, at the end of the end of the day, I only care about MY food choices. Everyone do as they see fit...

kyle4jem

I've not seen the documentary "Fat Head" (just googled it ) but I agree that some documentary makers tend to make the "facts" speak for themselves rather than offer a "pros & cons" approach.

Why did I decide to lose weight? Simple, because I was fed up being FAT. :grumble:

I've struggled with issues around my weight since I was a kid. I had a mild form of body dysmorphia which made me think I was fatter than I was and then when I did start getting BIG it didn’t register because I knew I was a FAT FLUMP anyhow. :frown:
Over the years I’ve tried umpteen different “Diets” (and I hate the hijacking of the term by the fitness and weight-loss industry... and let’s never forget it IS an industry and it’s determined to make you lose pounds - £ as much as lbs :explode:) They all worked to varying degrees in the short term, but were never sustainable and every time I quit and went back to my old ways, I ended up fatter than before.

It had been praying on my mind for a long while but I’d never done anything about it, always taking the “yeah, I’ll start in a few weeks ...” approach, but never ever getting round to it. :ohwell:

I’ve read media articles on various different theories on weight loss and beyond doubt there is only one indisputable fact: the more you eat, the heavier you will become, unless you are burning off those calories working or working out. Sure there are some medical conditions that affect weight gain and weight loss, but for your average Joe/Jane it’s just a very basic mathematical equation.

However, everybody is different and I can't say what I am doing will work for everybody else. I don’t preach, although I will always I try to encourage. I used to get really het-up with all the bunkum that’s espoused as FACT on the message boards, but now I just take it with a large pinch of SALT :laugh:

Find a path that suits you, works for you and don’t freak if sometimes you take the odd detour or have to go back and re-trace your steps. Life is an adventure: grab it with both hands and enjoy it! :happy:

TourThePast

I'm on the "Stop eating crap, don't make up for it by overeating the healthy stuff and get off your fat *kitten* and DO something" plan.

As for how to know when to disregard "facts" I have a rather geeky interest in the sciences, plus I've spent years fine tuning my bullsh*t filters.

andy_gilfrin

I have to tend to agree with Zeeb then... using your own common sense and logic is important. That's not to say that consulting "experts" or reading widely is a waste of time either. Experts are experts because they are presumably learned in their field.

I'd agree with that to a point but, your common sense and logic is based on your learned experiences over the course of your life, small bits of information stored to form a whole. All my life the mantra has been than it is high fat and sugar that has caused obesity, where as now having done the research I'd say that is far from the whole story. I think the advice has changed recently but it will take another 30 years before people move away from the "high fat" is bad model, as it is yes high fat is bad, but for me the result has just been to replace the high fat with hit sugar and refined carbs, which are as bad if not more so.

For me the route has been trying to diet and add massive amounts of exercise, the only time I lose weight was when I went on, although it was never called one, a low GI diet. I read every thing I could, although I approached it from a scientific point of view, if you take a step back you will see that most diet advice is repeating the same old stuff most of which has no hard evidence. Sure there are various studies that say they test X and it worked but most of the time there is a similar study proving the opposite.

As for evidence, I looked at how the body deals with the food it takes in, what the net result is and tried to eat in a way which means my body will process the fat in the most effective way, then once that's done I will switch to a diet which is more in tune with how the human body was fuelled for around 190,000 of it's 200,000 year history.

Ultimately it's about finding something that works for you, what I do works for me.

LaMujerMasBonitaDelMundo

I do the low-sugar & portion control eating lifestyle because I'm a diabetic & this is what my doctor recommended me.

natboosh69

I just try to eat more fruit, veg and wholemeal stuff, and cut out high sugar and high fat foods. Also I try to stick to calories in < calories out, and exercise at least 30 mins a day.

TavistockToad

@TavistockToad - Results are definitely one of the best ways to determine whether or not a specific set of actions is working. However, you had to begin on that set of actions at some point. I am interested in where that original spark began in your mind.

The original spark came from being unhappy with my weight and health as i was. so i followed the general principle of eat less exercise more, then found MFP, and then learnt the other bits, like macronutrients & strength training on here.

cownancy

Having a myriad of health problems, doing a lot of exercise is a problem for me. Being almost twice my healthy size, and addicted to carbs and not EVER feeling full, I felt that losing the weight was going to be a lost cause. After checking out weight loss surgery on two prior occasions over the past 15 years, I thought I would never be approved, but my doctors: cardiologist, GP, pulmonologist, orthopaedist and neurologist ALL suggested I try again. So, I did....and this time not only was I approved for surgery, but finally the lapband was covered by my insurance.

I found the right doctor, saw all of my specialists, attended my support group meetings (so I met, literally, hundreds of other patients) and starting working with nutritionists. I also saw a series of informational videos and was able to have a private meeting with the regional rep for Allergan. But, the heaviest factor for me was the fact that I have selected some of the highest rated specialists in the NYC/Long Island area and every single one of these doctors felt very strongly that this surgery would be the best way for me to get off the weight and stand the best chance of reaching my maximum potential for a more active life.

So, my actual nutritional goals have been recommended by my nutritionists. I've certainly done my research and am very happy with my experience and results thus far.