Water question

sneezles

The only reason to give up diet sodas is the sodium content and then only if you are sodium sensitive (and I believe only a small percentage of the population is sensitive, I happen to be...yay, lucky me!). There is no reason to make the liquid consumption harder than it might be for some...a liquid is a liquid is a liquid...period!

sneezles

I only count my water (H2O) but I'm only drinking about 104oz a day (I'm 214 lbs). I may need to reevaluate my water consumption. I'll do a little more research into it though.

No you don't, seriously, unless your sodium consumption is over 3,000mg/day but if it is then you should just work on that aspect.

BrewerGeorge

You guys are killing me with this stuff. :explode:

Will actual scientific research convince you to overthrow this urban myth?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/health/nutrition/04real.html?_r=1

Medical experts have been saying for years that caffeine acts as a potent diuretic. Consume too many caffeinated beverages, and you end up drinking yourself into dehydration.

But research has not confirmed that notion. Most studies have found that in moderate amounts, caffeine has only mild diuretic effects — much like water.

http://www.jacn.org/content/19/5/591.full

Conclusions: This preliminary study found no significant differences in the effect of various combinations of beverages on hydration status of healthy adult males. Advising people to disregard caffeinated beverages as part of the daily fluid intake is not substantiated by the results of this study.

Jewels211

Thanks, intechpc and BrewerGeorge I do know that green tea has a diuretic effect on me--if I drink it on a trip, I'll be stopping once an hour. Any othe beverage, I'm good for more than twice that long unless I drink a ton. My ankles and lower legs will be swollen pretty badly the day after if I drink any kind of carbonated drink, so I've basically cut those out because I hate the uncomfortable feeling. But it is good to know that basically, if I'm drinking, I'm good. I do know that I need to get in more fluids, period, and I do figure that some of it being straight water is a good idea, just because I don't want to overdo artificial stuff, or at least I want to save it for where I really like it, like in my coffee and my green tea. I love the exchange of info here, and I'm thankful that you've done the research. I've read, but don't always know the significance of the info after I have.

BrewerGeorge

Thanks, intechpc and BrewerGeorge I do know that green tea has a diuretic effect on me--if I drink it on a trip, I'll be stopping once an hour. ...

Happens to lots of people - that's why the myth is so seductive. The trick is that you're drinking more liquid with the beverage than you're peeing out. (Adult average is about 4-6 oz per pee if they go when they first feel the urge.)

I knew LOTS of people in the Navy who literally NEVER drank anything at all except coffee and Mt. Dew or Coke - including one guy who popped ephedrine (REALLY diuretic) like candy. These people would be dying of dehydration if all these other beverages didn't hydrate you.

val071418

sneezles asked for research about my half your bodyweight (+) comment. I read it and I know a source was cited, but I don't have it handy. I know for me, when I get at least 100 ounces in a day, things work out better in terms of energy, lack of hunger between meals, the clear piss thing, and overall weight loss. I know that when I start to skimp on my water and get 64 ounces in, things don't work as well.

I agree with this. I started drinking hot decaf tea a couple times a day and counted it as water. But after a few days I was noticing my urine was getting darker, i didn't feel quite as good as normal, and I was not consuming as much regular water as I should have. And I do notice that when added up the ounces, I DO drink just shy of half my weight in water!! It helps flush sodium, which retains water and you gain weight, and keeps your body functioning at 100% allowing you to obtain the best benefit from your workouts!!

maidentl

The only reason to give up diet sodas is the sodium content

Another myth. The 12 oz Coke Zero I have is 40mg sodium. It is not a significant source of sodium.

Jcat52643

Anything you drink counts as water unless it has caffeine. Caffeine acts as a diuretic and causes the body to get rid of more water so it's counter productive. It's not a myth, you can look it up in any drug database; look at the side effects and you'll find "diuresis" which is the medical term for increased urination. Alcohol should not be counted either since it inhibits the antidiuretic hormone and causes the same thing. Clearly, weight loss would be more productive if you drank sugar free drinks. I see nothing wrong with artificial sweeteners except the ones that can cause diarrhea (diarrhea=dehydration). Additionally, if you are weight training your body may tend to retain water due to the increase levels of lactic acid in the muscles. Drink more fluids when you are weight training so that the body doesn't try to hold onto so much of it. Beyond that, drink whatever you like or makes you feel good.

Trust me, I'm a doctor... Seriously, I am.

P.S. To correct another user who commented on the topic, the liver's primary function is to rid the body of toxins. It also stores sugars for use later and builds fats and cholesterols. So if anything, it makes you gain weight if you are eating too much and helps very little with losing weight even when you are eating well.

BrewerGeorge

Anything you drink counts as water unless it has caffeine. Caffeine acts as a diuretic and causes the body to get rid of more water so it's counter productive. It's not a myth, you can look it up in any drug database; look at the side effects and you'll find "diuresis" which is the medical term for increased urination. Alcohol should not be counted either since it inhibits the antidiuretic hormone and causes the same thing. Clearly, weight loss would be more productive if you drank sugar free drinks. I see nothing wrong with artificial sweeteners except the ones that can cause diarrhea (diarrhea=dehydration). Additionally, if you are weight training your body may tend to retain water due to the increase levels of lactic acid in the muscles. Drink more fluids when you are weight training so that the body doesn't try to hold onto so much of it. Beyond that, drink whatever you like or makes you feel good.

Trust me, I'm a doctor... Seriously, I am.

P.S. To correct another user who commented on the topic, the liver's primary function is to rid the body of toxins. It also stores sugars for use later and builds fats and cholesterols. So if anything, it makes you gain weight if you are eating too much and helps very little with losing weight even when you are eating well.

Nobody said it wasn't diuretic. The question is whether the 100mg of caffeine found in a cup of coffee has more than a cup's worth of diuretic effect. What's the net effect on the body's hydration level? Also, what do you think is the impact of the fact that regular users of caffeine develop a tolerance to its diuretic effects?

I'm not being snarky. I'm really, truly interested in hearing what you have to say. I've been basing my opinion on stuff like this:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/559762_2 but I'm not a doctor so it's harder for me to judge the worth of this info than it must be for you.

Jcat52643

Anything you drink counts as water unless it has caffeine. Caffeine acts as a diuretic and causes the body to get rid of more water so it's counter productive. It's not a myth, you can look it up in any drug database; look at the side effects and you'll find "diuresis" which is the medical term for increased urination. Alcohol should not be counted either since it inhibits the antidiuretic hormone and causes the same thing. Clearly, weight loss would be more productive if you drank sugar free drinks. I see nothing wrong with artificial sweeteners except the ones that can cause diarrhea (diarrhea=dehydration). Additionally, if you are weight training your body may tend to retain water due to the increase levels of lactic acid in the muscles. Drink more fluids when you are weight training so that the body doesn't try to hold onto so much of it. Beyond that, drink whatever you like or makes you feel good.

Trust me, I'm a doctor... Seriously, I am.

P.S. To correct another user who commented on the topic, the liver's primary function is to rid the body of toxins. It also stores sugars for use later and builds fats and cholesterols. So if anything, it makes you gain weight if you are eating too much and helps very little with losing weight even when you are eating well.

Nobody said it wasn't diuretic. The question is whether the 100mg of caffeine found in a cup of coffee has more than a cup's worth of diuretic effect. What's the net effect on the body's hydration level? Also, what do you think is the impact of the fact that regular users of caffeine develop a tolerance to its diuretic effects?

I'm not being snarky. I'm really, truly interested in hearing what you have to say. I've been basing my opinion on stuff like this:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/559762_2 but I'm not a doctor so it's harder for me to judge the worth of this info than it must be for you.

My apologies. I must have misunderstood/misread.

In my experience, very few studies can be trusted. Results can be skewed to say practically anything and more often than not the people conducting the studies do not use the appropriate statistical tests to analyze their results rendering them meaningless. The also don't typically have enough people included or go on long enough to produce clinically significant results. But they are a necessary evil, LOL! Anyway, I have seen other articles claiming that for every mg of caffeine ingested you lose around 1.2 mL of fluid. Do I believe this is true for everyone? Absolutely not. It is all dependent on kidney function and to be quite honest everyone is going to react differently to it. However, if you look at the caffeine content in 12 ounces of Mountain Dew (55 mg)... yeah, you would intake more than you excrete. So you do have a point. I don't agree with that article you posted about it being equal but I admit, you would still have a net gain of 81% of the fluids from that beverage. And I've never seen anyone suffer from dehydration due to excessive intake of caffeine (alcohol is another story though!). As far as tolerance goes, it's kind of pointless now isn't it seeing as how I just conceded to the whole fluid loss versus intake issue?

bcattoes

bottom line...nothing is as good for you as plain water. I doubt anyone could really debate that. so, the issue becomes how much worse are other liquids...flavored waters, coffee, tea, soda (hard to believe anyone is counting soda as any form of water intake)...for you than water and is there enough of a difference that they shouldn't be counted. As someone suggested, see how your body reacts to those other liquids being included in your "water" count....and then take a week where you only drink water and see how you feel and how the scale reacts.

its certainly possible that some folks' bodies are more efficient than others...and they can process any amount of liquid toxin as quickly as plain water. so, do the test on yourself.

I would debate the statement that "nothing is as good for you as plain water". Tea has no calories, just as much water as water, and has antioxidants that been shown to improve health. Even if ignore all the evidence that tea does NOT contain enough caffeine to dehydrate you (even you drank an entire pitcher) you could still drink decaffeinated tea and get all the benefits of water plus the additional benefits of antioxidants.

ATT949

Drinking lots of water helps keep one feeling full and that can help people on a diet accomplish their goals. Other than that, I've yet to read a medical document that provides the background to drinking so much water.

I rarely drink water. Instead, my body gets the water it needs from food (i eat a lot of salad) and beverages including coffee and tea. Recently, I've started drinking Coke Zero again.

One of the reasons why I avoid plain water is this article:

http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/283/5/R993.full

The author undertook a lengthy review of literature about drinking eight glasses of water per day and could not find any medical reason for it. And the author has some credibility — he's an MD who's a professor at Dartmouth and he has written a textbook on how the kidneys function.

He doesn't have the marketing dollars of the companies that sell bottled water but that doesn't change the scientific approach that he's used to come to his conclusion that "No scientific studies were found in support of 8 × 8."

As he states "the author invites communications from readers who are aware of pertinent publications" - that is, of publications that might suggest otherwise.

If you want to drink lots of water, calorie-free beverages can be counted as water. My source for that is my GF who runs a clinic for Lindora, a medically supervised weight program that has helped hundreds of thousands of people lose weight in their 40+ year history.

elmsallmissile

The original research that all this diet / fitness industry BS is based on was done in the 50's iirc, this research stated the average liquid an adult required in certain conditions ie ambient temp exertion levels etc, it went on in conclusion to say that ALL food in the diet could be included in this figure, ie even steak is for example (don't quote me) say 70 or 80% water, the afore mentioned diet & fitness bods just latched on to the 2 or 3 litres or whatever figure and called it gospel, and everyone has repeated it over the years until it is acceped as gospel But not by me! drink when you are thirsty! check out Runners World they are now giving this advice to avoid hyponatraemia.

This is not the research, but a quick glance says it makes a little sense.

kiesh82

Aside from a cup of green tea w/ breakfast and the occasional alcohol on weekends I only drink water. Most days I drink at least 60oz and on days I work out I tend to drink 80-100 b/c I'm just more thirsty. I'm pretty laid about it and go by how I feel not any water intake theories. I really don't find it necessary to drink more than 60 oz if I'm not thirsty.