Not sure what's more annoying....

HMonsterX

I know local hospitals have told all their employees that they have 2yrs to quit smoking, or they will not have a job.

I'd tell them where to stick it! They have no right telling you want you can or cannot do in your personal time. I'd just sue them for unfair dismissal!

The company I work for sends out a notice to everyone signing up for benefits that "if you are a smoker, or use smoke-related products, your premiums are 20% higher than the non-smoking plans".... they go into detail the why-it-is-higher and state that if you are in the middle of a cessation program, you need to submit proof so you dont have to pay the higher premium. Then the insurance demands records for each visit to prove you are still in that program and participating.

We work in a food-related environment and to encourage non-smoking is actually smart.

The problem with smoking is that it has been proven to cost more in healthcare services (respiratory/circulatory related) where you are basically contaminating your lungs with products that induce medical problems.

If people lie on their benefit application saying they dont smoke, when in fact they do... once that medical claim goes in for payment, and they see the diagnosis come in with something smoking-related, that patient's claim gets denied, potential loss of benefits (considered fraud)(because of how the contract was drawn up with the company), and if they do keep their insurance, they pay a penalty AND the higher premium for lying on the application.

In terms of insurance, sure. Luckily Im in the UK and we don't require health insurance as we have the NHS. I thought it was simply a "stop smoking or you're sacked" kinda thing, which got my goat.

MikeSEA

Though you should be more careful on comparisons. "Discrimination in itself isn't a bad thing. We discriminate against criminals all the time...for good reason."

You shouldn't compare good over weight citizens to criminals.

I agree. Thankfully I didn't do that. You'll note that the point of me including my statement about discrimination is to highlight that not all types of discrimination are the same. If a reader wishes to infer a similarity between criminals and obese individuals based on my statement, then I agree to disagree with their interpretation.

FitForeverAgain

This was interesting conversation. What happened to all the posts?

armymil

As a former super morbidly obese person, I have a couple thoughts:

- I fully admit that my weight was my problem and I had to deal with the negative aspects that came along with it. I never expected special treatment because of my weight. HOWEVER, it was unfair that I was passed over for a promotion because I was overweight. It is also extremely wrong for people to make nasty comments to me or about me.
-Treating overweight people like criminals is wrong. Its all well and good to say stop coddling them and say they need to lose weight. If it was really that easy then we wouldn't have an obsesity epidemic. You don't have to hold their hand and tell them its gonna be okay but you don't have to be judgemental. People have to realize that losing weight is one most difficult things to do - ever - period. I quit smoking cold turkey and couldn't believe how easily I was able to do it. I wish I could have taken the weight off so easily. But I've never had to pick up a cigarette again in order to survive. Daily we are confronting and trying to control the thing that we need to continue to exist yet is the cause of our problem. Anyone who says its easy is being holier than thou.
- Some people are happy being overweight, I was for a long time (until it affected my life and health). Then I made the choice to change. Buts that's me. Some people will be happy their entire lives being heavy, others will die miserable. But the same can be said for thin people, rich people, pretty people, ugly people, etc.
- And if we are going to pick on obese people and smokers, why is it that everyone is okay people who drink too much???? My being fat is not going to hurt you. You can avoid second hand smoke. But if I'm driving down the road and a dead drunk driver hits me head on... me and possibly the rest of my family are dead. Yet you don't get the hue and cry about drinking as you do about smokers & fatties!

Everyone needs to mind their own business, worry about themselves, support others who ask for it, and live the life you choose.

Finally, I knew someone would back me up out there or at least have similar view points!

That was one point I forgot. Smoking and drinking are hard to quit in themselves but you don't get exposed to them everyday unless you work around them. Eating is something you do to live and sometimes you feel hungry for food. Knowing when you are full and when you are hungry are easy to learn with some education.

The only thing I will side with them is that you have some of our kind that expects special treatment. You have to sort through everyone's viewpoints here but here is an example. A person is sueing a fast food chain because they never updated their table sizes. Which I dont know why if you arent a fast food chain you wouldnt go ahead and make em bigger anyhow. It's little things like this where you go, really?

Let's tax fast food higher and lower the taxes for farmers for cheaper healthier food! Then going out would truely be something not everyone could afford to do! I bet people would learn to cook healthier then!

ladyphoto

I totally agree with your view point on this. There is that new show about the plus size models- and how they are all about accepting themselves, loving themselves, etc- I'm all about that- but then in the show, they complain over and over again about how it's hard to meet men, how self conscience they feel sometimes, etc.

It's not enough to talk the talk. You have to walk the walk, and in my humble opinion, there isn't a person alive that is obese that is truly truly happy to be that way. Society glamorizing it and trying to get the masses to accept it is a huge problem- these people's lives are in danger- it's not all about vanity.

I have seen the US really up-ing their tolerance to being significantly overweight and I hope it does not continue.

Now, that all being said, I never said- and totally disagree with- mistreating obese people or any demoralizing treatment...that's terrible.

armymil

Though you should be more careful on comparisons. "Discrimination in itself isn't a bad thing. We discriminate against criminals all the time...for good reason."

You shouldn't compare good over weight citizens to criminals.

I agree. Thankfully I didn't do that. You'll note that the point of me including my statement about discrimination is to highlight that not all types of discrimination are the same. If a reader wishes to infer a similarity between criminals and obese individuals based on my statement, then I agree to disagree with their interpretation.

Hey I hear you. All I'm saying is be careful. Sometimes no comparisions are better. You covered yourself later in your paragraph.

Dolphingirlie81

I agree. The price of healthcare is NUTS, and just getting worse. I know local hospitals have told all their employees that they have 2yrs to quit smoking, or they will not have a job. Being that no one will be a smoker employed by them, their health ins costs will go down greatly. I wonder how long it will take for such places to do the same with obese employees?

I find it stunning how many drs, are over weight but preach healthy diets, etc!

That's absurd. While they are at it, why not tell the employees that probably enjoy a beer or a glass of wine of a day of work. If they don't stop, they don't have a job. The whole high insurance rates is absurd. I don't pay much attention to all the insurace talk, cause I think its BS. But I heard about if someone is a smoker. So are they gonna raise rates for people that drink, eat? There;s always gonna be something that they say is a health "hazard". Heck even prescription medicines that doctors prescribed can cause medical health problems. (and yes I know smoking and drinking is not healthy, but that's an individual's choice to do what they want to do).

armymil

I totally agree with your view point on this. There is that new show about the plus size models- and how they are all about accepting themselves, loving themselves, etc- I'm all about that- but then in the show, they complain over and over again about how it's hard to meet men, how self conscience they feel sometimes, etc.

Sigh, I got forced into watching it. "Honey, watch this with me." -- "Fine.."

The women on there keep talking about how they want someone to return their call. Someone to be there the next day. They did a really poor time of making obese look fun. The one woman looks like a clown. She is a makeup artist or whatever. I don't have a preference of size but I couldnt date a clown!

Edit: She looks better without makeup.

alyssamiller77

A couple points from different posts I want to answer here, so rather than quote them separately I'll just hit them all. First, as I said before, I don't believe discrimination is the way to go. It doesn't help the problem any and as illogical as it seems can actually make the issue worse. People should not be passed over for promotions, should not be treated as second class citizens and should not be ridiculed for their condition. However, at the same time we have to stop acting like this condition is OK either.

The comments that a person's obesity, smoking or other life choices do not affect me are completely false. The fact of the matter is obesity leads to more medical problems and thus more doctors visits. More doctor visits lead to high healthcare costs and health insurance premiums for all. Also you can add in the costs of modifications to facilities to accomodate the ever growing size of people, those modifications add to costs all over the place. I can go on but you get the point.

Now again, let me repeat, that does not give anyone the right to be judgemental of another person based solely on their weight condition. We all have our struggles in life, some are more publically visible than others. So we need to be accepting and compassionate toward all of our companions on this earth, but it doesn't mean that we should treat Obesity like it's OK and not a problem. There is a difference between accepting the person and accepting a common condition as normal.

lmarshel

I know local hospitals have told all their employees that they have 2yrs to quit smoking, or they will not have a job.

I'd tell them where to stick it! They have no right telling you want you can or cannot do in your personal time. I'd just sue them for unfair dismissal!

Actually, depending on where you live they may in fact have the right to do just that. Smokers' rights vary by state here in the US, and employers may have the right to fire employees based on the fact that they smoke in the privacy of their homes.

My company has started requiring staff members on health insurance plan to meet criteria in certain key health areas: BMI, blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. They have a specific range that is considered "healthy" for each area. If you or your insured family members do not fall within the healthy range, you are currently required to see a doctor and complete a certain number of sessions with the health insurance company's counseling service. If you don't complete these requirements, you lose your discount on the company insurance and your health insurance costs will go up by about 50%. Starting next year, staff & insured family will also be required to show improvement in those areas where they are out of the healthy range to retain their discount. I can only assume the day is coming when everyone will be required to fall within the healthy range to retain their insurance discounts. I work for a company founded to promote healthy lifestyles, so there is certainly extra motivation for our staff members to "walk the talk".

armymil

intechpc, Well said.

One other example is an airline situation. Though it never happened to me, I would hate to be next to a very large person (400+).

alyssamiller77

intechpc, Well said.

One other example is an airline situation. Though it never happened to me, I would hate to be next to a very large person (400+).

Yeah I had actually avoided going there because I believe the airlines won the court battle and are able to charge additional fees for people that take up more than one seat.

armymil

Ehh, If I knew the seats were smaller, I'd feel bad and never fly on an airplane. My fiancee is scared to ride on a plane for the same reason, except she doesnt want to inconvience anyone. She would be fine in a seat, but it's just the perception.

It's about being inconsiderate of others if you decide to fly.

greatdaneaddict

That's absurd. While they are at it, why not tell the employees that probably enjoy a beer or a glass of wine of a day of work. If they don't stop, they don't have a job. The whole high insurance rates is absurd. I don't pay much attention to all the insurace talk, cause I think its BS. But I heard about if someone is a smoker. So are they gonna raise rates for people that drink, eat? There;s always gonna be something that they say is a health "hazard". Heck even prescription medicines that doctors prescribed can cause medical health problems. (and yes I know smoking and drinking is not healthy, but that's an individual's choice to do what they want to do).

Our insurance rates at work are based on 5 different items/ biometrics. Your discount is based on how many of them you pass. I passed all 5 this year thankfully, and yes, one of them is based on if you are a non-smoker or not. We also have to pass BMI (or waist measurement), Blood Pressure, Cholesterol (HDL/LDL), Triglycerides and Glucose. You get covered regardless, it's just a difference in how much you pay for insurance. No one loses their job. Basically you are rewarded for trying to be healthy. If there is a medical reason for not being able to pass (diabetes for example), I think you have other options, but I don't know what they are since it doesn't affect me.

HMonsterX

I know local hospitals have told all their employees that they have 2yrs to quit smoking, or they will not have a job.

I'd tell them where to stick it! They have no right telling you want you can or cannot do in your personal time. I'd just sue them for unfair dismissal!

Actually, depending on where you live they may in fact have the right to do just that. Smokers' rights vary by state here in the US, and employers may have the right to fire employees based on the fact that they smoke in the privacy of their homes.

This is another thing that makes me damn glad i dont live in the US! Over here it's as it should be imo. Can you do your job to the company expectations or beyond? Yes? Great. No? Fired. Simple. Personal life is just that. Personal. Bugger all to do with the company.

armymil

This is another thing that makes me damn glad i dont live in the US! Over here it's as it should be imo. Can you do your job to the company expectations or beyond? Yes? Great. No? Fired. Simple. Personal life is just that. Personal. Bugger all to do with the company.

Sigh, another out of context view of the US. This does not show how the US handles all businesses. Don't you think for a moment if this were the case, that many people would be fired and tobacco companies banned from the US? I mean, I welcome your opinion of America, and that is fine. But, don't take one post and match it to your opinion. There is so much more to America!

HMonsterX

This is another thing that makes me damn glad i dont live in the US! Over here it's as it should be imo. Can you do your job to the company expectations or beyond? Yes? Great. No? Fired. Simple. Personal life is just that. Personal. Bugger all to do with the company.

Sigh, another out of context view of the US. This does not show how the US handles all businesses. Don't you think for a moment if this were the case, that many people would be fired and tobacco companies banned from the US? I mean, I welcome your opinion of America, and that is fine. But, don't take one post and match it to your opinion. There is so much more to America!

I know, i had a good friend who lived in Lexington, and learned a lot about american way of life, and in most ways it was nothing unusual, not much different to here. But certain points really stick out in my mind, i.e. Gun laws, alcohol, gambling, etc. And ofc you have no NHS, which is something that most brits moan about, but at least we HAVE something! Just seeing things like this thread remind me to appreciate our NHS! Can you smoke walking down an open street in the US?

Shanahan09

I agree. We are all responsible for what goes in our stomachs. Sad part is, my heart goes out to the children, they don't get a voice into what they are being fed by unhealhy parents. I have always thought the government should tax the hell out of junk food, so it IS more expensive than a healthy alternative. All I know is, it's an epidemic. It has to start at home. Yet, there are the whiners who consistantly want to be taken care of when they fall ill from unhealthy habits, and want to blame someone other than themselves. Hey, no one put a gun to MY head when I ate those 2 pieces of chocolate cake...it was my doing!! I take full credit for my expanded waist line, and will put the hard work into making it shrink!!!

MikeSEA

This is another thing that makes me damn glad i dont live in the US! Over here it's as it should be imo. Can you do your job to the company expectations or beyond? Yes? Great. No? Fired. Simple. Personal life is just that. Personal. Bugger all to do with the company.

Sigh, another out of context view of the US. This does not show how the US handles all businesses. Don't you think for a moment if this were the case, that many people would be fired and tobacco companies banned from the US? I mean, I welcome your opinion of America, and that is fine. But, don't take one post and match it to your opinion. There is so much more to America!

I know, i had a good friend who lived in Lexington, and learned a lot about american way of life, and in most ways it was nothing unusual, not much different to here. But certain points really stick out in my mind, i.e. Gun laws, alcohol, gambling, etc. And ofc you have no NHS, which is something that most brits moan about, but at least we HAVE something! Just seeing things like this thread remind me to appreciate our NHS! Can you smoke walking down an open street in the US?

That kind of law would likely be local, not national. This sort of highlights the fact that the US is quite diverse in its attitudes on these topics. I can see some cities where this would be embraced happily (for the most part) and rejected soundly by others.

HMonsterX

This is another thing that makes me damn glad i dont live in the US! Over here it's as it should be imo. Can you do your job to the company expectations or beyond? Yes? Great. No? Fired. Simple. Personal life is just that. Personal. Bugger all to do with the company.

Sigh, another out of context view of the US. This does not show how the US handles all businesses. Don't you think for a moment if this were the case, that many people would be fired and tobacco companies banned from the US? I mean, I welcome your opinion of America, and that is fine. But, don't take one post and match it to your opinion. There is so much more to America!

I know, i had a good friend who lived in Lexington, and learned a lot about american way of life, and in most ways it was nothing unusual, not much different to here. But certain points really stick out in my mind, i.e. Gun laws, alcohol, gambling, etc. And ofc you have no NHS, which is something that most brits moan about, but at least we HAVE something! Just seeing things like this thread remind me to appreciate our NHS! Can you smoke walking down an open street in the US?

That kind of law would likely be local, not national. This sort of highlights the fact that the US is quite diverse in its attitudes on these topics. I can see some cities where this would be embraced happily (for the most part) and rejected soundly by others.

I also remember telling her we have fruit machines in the bowling alley, £5 jackpot ones that even kids can play, and she was horrified!

Which states would happily embrace the smoking in the street (just for future reference :P )

GreenGettingLean

Haven't read all the comments here, but in my experience, healthy living is one part education and one part will power. I think it's really up to the individual which one they need more of. However, education is SEVERELY lacking and even the most will-powered person will not gain a healthy lifestyle without education.

For example, my dear mom (morbidly obese for as long as I can remember) was SHOCKED to hear that I eat 1350 calories a day to lose weight. When I told her, she kind of jumped back and said, "Amanda, isn't that WAY too many calories?!"

I didn't even know where to start. It's really saddening when you see a lack of nutritional education and obesity affecting your family, which I'm sure all of us have experienced. For what it's worth, I tried to explain BMR and activity level and all that to my mom, but she's the classic "eating 600 calories a day and not losing" example.

As for the person quoted in the article saying that if sheer will-power caused weight-loss, they'd have been rail thin 40 years ago, I call shenanigans. He/she is in that vast majority of people today constantly TALKING about weight loss, but never actually DOING anything to better themselves. I'd love to introduce him/her to some of the incredibly inspiring people I've met on MFP...

MikeSEA

This is another thing that makes me damn glad i dont live in the US! Over here it's as it should be imo. Can you do your job to the company expectations or beyond? Yes? Great. No? Fired. Simple. Personal life is just that. Personal. Bugger all to do with the company.

Sigh, another out of context view of the US. This does not show how the US handles all businesses. Don't you think for a moment if this were the case, that many people would be fired and tobacco companies banned from the US? I mean, I welcome your opinion of America, and that is fine. But, don't take one post and match it to your opinion. There is so much more to America!

I know, i had a good friend who lived in Lexington, and learned a lot about american way of life, and in most ways it was nothing unusual, not much different to here. But certain points really stick out in my mind, i.e. Gun laws, alcohol, gambling, etc. And ofc you have no NHS, which is something that most brits moan about, but at least we HAVE something! Just seeing things like this thread remind me to appreciate our NHS! Can you smoke walking down an open street in the US?

That kind of law would likely be local, not national. This sort of highlights the fact that the US is quite diverse in its attitudes on these topics. I can see some cities where this would be embraced happily (for the most part) and rejected soundly by others.

I also remember telling her we have fruit machines in the bowling alley, £5 jackpot ones that even kids can play, and she was horrified!

Which states would happily embrace the smoking in the street (just for future reference :P )

Most of Texas comes to mind. Really anywhere that's highly conservative and/or popular with anarchistic libertarians (not to be confused with normal libertarians).

HMonsterX

This is another thing that makes me damn glad i dont live in the US! Over here it's as it should be imo. Can you do your job to the company expectations or beyond? Yes? Great. No? Fired. Simple. Personal life is just that. Personal. Bugger all to do with the company.

Sigh, another out of context view of the US. This does not show how the US handles all businesses. Don't you think for a moment if this were the case, that many people would be fired and tobacco companies banned from the US? I mean, I welcome your opinion of America, and that is fine. But, don't take one post and match it to your opinion. There is so much more to America!

I know, i had a good friend who lived in Lexington, and learned a lot about american way of life, and in most ways it was nothing unusual, not much different to here. But certain points really stick out in my mind, i.e. Gun laws, alcohol, gambling, etc. And ofc you have no NHS, which is something that most brits moan about, but at least we HAVE something! Just seeing things like this thread remind me to appreciate our NHS! Can you smoke walking down an open street in the US?

That kind of law would likely be local, not national. This sort of highlights the fact that the US is quite diverse in its attitudes on these topics. I can see some cities where this would be embraced happily (for the most part) and rejected soundly by others.

I also remember telling her we have fruit machines in the bowling alley, £5 jackpot ones that even kids can play, and she was horrified!

Which states would happily embrace the smoking in the street (just for future reference :P )

Most of Texas comes to mind. Really anywhere that's highly conservative and/or popular with anarchistic libertarians (not to be confused with normal libertarians).

Isn't Texas highly religious though?

If i were coming to america, i smoke, and am not religious...where should i go?

msstillion79

OK I had to stop reading some of these responses. I am a obsesed women I have had alot of medical problems that have caused me to gain alot of weight. So people that say that obsese and overweight people can control their weight and life style that is bull**** im sorry but not everyone can. I am now on here triing to get healthy thats it i dont want to be "skinny" by no means a size 14 or 16 would be great like i was before i got sick that will still make me overweight but i will be healthy I hate that people set and put down people cause of the way they look we as humans have no right we are not in that persons shoes to know how their life is goin or what is wrong with them and i think as adults we do this we are just teaching our childern that u have to be one way look one way its just like we are telling them that they are not good enough if they are a size bigger then 10 We have had a lot of kids teens killing their selves from bullying in this country and that is exactly what we are doing we are bullying teens and young adults telling them that they do not fit in This economy is hitting rock bottom and most americans are fighting to put food on the table and we have to ammit that the cheaper foods are the processed foods and quick things I think that if our government want to help americans beat the battle with the bulge they need to cut food prices of healthy foods and get the americans that are not working back to work. We can not decide what is right for anyone else but our selves so i feel like we need to mind our own bussiness and support our fellow americans stop judging Judging someone for their size is just like judging someone for the color of their skin ur just judging on the size of it Stop putting people down, We need to unite to make a difference in peoples lifes :grumble:

HMonsterX

Judging someone for their size is just like judging someone for the color of their skin

You can't really say they are the same. For the most part, obese people themselves have caused their condition by their own bad choices. People cant choose their skin colour.

VickiMitkins

I have to say I agree to a certain extent. Humans are social animals and avoid doing things that are not socially acceptable. Some examples come to mind: Europeans drink alcohol regularly, however, being intoxicated is unacceptable and rarely seen in public (I'm told); in the olden days having a child out of wedlock was unacceptable and occurred rarely - in the last 40 years it has become acceptable and look what has happened to two generations of children; it was unacceptable for women to smoke - now it's acceptable and lung cancer and heart desease have reached the same levels as men.

MikeSEA

This is another thing that makes me damn glad i dont live in the US! Over here it's as it should be imo. Can you do your job to the company expectations or beyond? Yes? Great. No? Fired. Simple. Personal life is just that. Personal. Bugger all to do with the company.

Sigh, another out of context view of the US. This does not show how the US handles all businesses. Don't you think for a moment if this were the case, that many people would be fired and tobacco companies banned from the US? I mean, I welcome your opinion of America, and that is fine. But, don't take one post and match it to your opinion. There is so much more to America!

I know, i had a good friend who lived in Lexington, and learned a lot about american way of life, and in most ways it was nothing unusual, not much different to here. But certain points really stick out in my mind, i.e. Gun laws, alcohol, gambling, etc. And ofc you have no NHS, which is something that most brits moan about, but at least we HAVE something! Just seeing things like this thread remind me to appreciate our NHS! Can you smoke walking down an open street in the US?

That kind of law would likely be local, not national. This sort of highlights the fact that the US is quite diverse in its attitudes on these topics. I can see some cities where this would be embraced happily (for the most part) and rejected soundly by others.

I also remember telling her we have fruit machines in the bowling alley, £5 jackpot ones that even kids can play, and she was horrified!

Which states would happily embrace the smoking in the street (just for future reference :P )

Most of Texas comes to mind. Really anywhere that's highly conservative and/or popular with anarchistic libertarians (not to be confused with normal libertarians).

Isn't Texas highly religious though?

If i were coming to america, i smoke, and am not religious...where should i go?

Canada?

VickiMitkins

This is another thing that makes me damn glad i dont live in the US! Over here it's as it should be imo. Can you do your job to the company expectations or beyond? Yes? Great. No? Fired. Simple. Personal life is just that. Personal. Bugger all to do with the company.

Sigh, another out of context view of the US. This does not show how the US handles all businesses. Don't you think for a moment if this were the case, that many people would be fired and tobacco companies banned from the US? I mean, I welcome your opinion of America, and that is fine. But, don't take one post and match it to your opinion. There is so much more to America!

I know, i had a good friend who lived in Lexington, and learned a lot about american way of life, and in most ways it was nothing unusual, not much different to here. But certain points really stick out in my mind, i.e. Gun laws, alcohol, gambling, etc. And ofc you have no NHS, which is something that most brits moan about, but at least we HAVE something! Just seeing things like this thread remind me to appreciate our NHS! Can you smoke walking down an open street in the US?

That kind of law would likely be local, not national. This sort of highlights the fact that the US is quite diverse in its attitudes on these topics. I can see some cities where this would be embraced happily (for the most part) and rejected soundly by others.

I also remember telling her we have fruit machines in the bowling alley, £5 jackpot ones that even kids can play, and she was horrified!

Which states would happily embrace the smoking in the street (just for future reference :P )

Most of Texas comes to mind. Really anywhere that's highly conservative and/or popular with anarchistic libertarians (not to be confused with normal libertarians).

Isn't Texas highly religious though?

If i were coming to america, i smoke, and am not religious...where should i go?

That's a tough one. New York or San Fran are very tolerant as to religion, but stick their nose in about the smoking, garbage collection, energy use, etc. In certain areas smoking is still very OK, but the ones I can think of are fairly religious areas (I don't know why). I would say someplace like Montana. Not many people and they don't care what you do.

HMonsterX

Montana and Canada, perfect!

I didn't realise Canada was a state of America!

Wow, the things you learn on here! :drinker:

MikeSEA

Montana and Canada, perfect!

I didn't realise Canada was a state of America!

Wow, the things you learn on here! :drinker:

Technically you just said "where in america." I could be wrong, but I believe many Canadians consider themselves Americans because they are in North America, just not citizens of the US Some Canadians also get mildly irritated when you refer to Canada as Northern Minnesota.