How much do you tell someone new? (Dating after weight loss

jpd10905

he's a D-bag, do you want to pursue it? Don't go by me, I don't know where I am with this. Guys who chat me up now but used to act like I was invisible.. I just laugh at them - 'as if' no
One of my MFP friends says 'If he doesn't want you at your worst, he doesn't deserve you at your best"

I don't cast pearls before swine - I'm telling you now it NEVER works out for the pearls.

That's the way I feel... I was completely invisible before. Now I meet lots of men and I've got plans every weekend. It's a strange feeling. Sometimes it's exciting, and sometimes it just makes me mad.

erickirb

he's a D-bag, do you want to pursue it? Don't go by me, I don't know where I am with this. Guys who chat me up now but used to act like I was invisible.. I just laugh at them - 'as if' no
One of my MFP friends says 'If he doesn't want you at your worst, he doesn't deserve you at your best"

I don't cast pearls before swine - I'm telling you now it NEVER works out for the pearls.

This is a little harsh. If he saw your pic, he thinks it is current and is saying you don't look that bid in your pic, unless you are lying.

Thanks for the male point of view. I'm not lying. The picture is super current. That's me, 100%.

My first response was that it was a little bit of a d-bag comment, but not a deal breaker. I do think that I'll have to have the conversation at some point, and perhaps sooner rather than later.

And back to your previous post, naked wasn't the plan for tomorrow, but it was absolutely part of the plan. : )

Good luck and enjoy the date.

Congrats on your progress you look great.

deadstarsunburn

he's a D-bag, do you want to pursue it? Don't go by me, I don't know where I am with this. Guys who chat me up now but used to act like I was invisible.. I just laugh at them - 'as if' no
One of my MFP friends says 'If he doesn't want you at your worst, he doesn't deserve you at your best"

I don't cast pearls before swine - I'm telling you now it NEVER works out for the pearls.

cracks me up =].

I don't know how your conversation and all went with him. HOWEVER that last bit makes him sound overly concerned with how you look. It sounds kind of rude of him to say that. I did the whole online dating thing and if someone said that to me I wouldn't want to waste time with them anymore. So what if you were still 300lbs? You're obviously very pretty and have a personality that attracted him to you.

Ultimately it's your decision, good luck and I hope he ends up being a winner =]

jpd10905

I'm a man, so I hope I qualify to give advice.

Firstly, a lot of men don't engage brain before opening mouth, so in all likelihood it was just a flip comment that means absolutely nothing at all.

Secondly, 300lbs is pretty much spot on, so maybe he knows somehow. if that's the case, and he's still seeing you, he doesn't care. Win!

Thirdly, if he's worth his salt, when he does find out he should be impressed. If all he can focus on is a few scars, kick him to the kerb and find someone less shallow.

Lastly, do you have to tell him straightaway? Maybe you won't want to leave it too long, but at the outset probably not.

HTH

That's funny and creepy at the same time. He is a cop and my driver's license picture is definitely a fat picture... Maybe he guessed 300?!!!

ZoneMom

I sense that you are reading too much into a text message from a stranger and over analyzing it. And I personally like the French woman's approach to issues with personal weight modifications (losing or gaining weight), which is that it is a very personal issue and rarely discussed with strangers or even with friends. And with regard to making positive first impressions, you may find the chapter on self-disclosure in this excellent book very helpful:

http://www.firstimpressionsconsulting.com/index.html

And remember that confidence is very alluring.

jpd10905

Oh, wow! Well, first of all, you're amazing and I'm in awe of your progress. That's a really interesting question! I have been talking to a guy for a few months (long story) and we haven't met yet but he knows all about my weight loss. We talk about it everyday. It helps me because he's really thin and I can say, like, "Check this out. I am worried about my boobs or my tummy or my whatever. Let's talk about it. What do you think?" sort of thing. Initially he was like, "Oh, I'm sure you're fine. You probably look great!" and I had to reel him in a bit (because I don't want to false advertise!) by saying like, "Not really. It's different after weight loss and I'm self-conscious about my body." It seems like he mostly gets it and is super understanding! But I can't imagine waiting to spring it on him til right before we're about to get busy. lol

So, my vote is to talk about it soon. Maybe not details the VERY first date as ANY kind of surgery is arguably too personal and serious for something that should be light and fun and happy. But, mention your weight loss. Maybe even, if you're comfortable with it, satisfy his curiosity by telling him your heaviest weight. Then again, you just may shock the poor guy because you look so beautiful and he would not see it coming! I, personally, haven't told the man I'm talking to my heaviest weight but he knows roughly what I weigh now and how much I lost so he's probably put two and two together. lol But I explicitly said, "Few non MFP-people know that number and I'd prefer to wait to tell you til I'm closer to goal." And he was great about it.

Sorry I'm relating by talking about my experience so much! But our situations are similar enough that I figured some back story might help you decide how you want to handle it.

Ultimately, I feel confident about my body and my weight loss, even if I'm not 100% happy with how I look yet. (We're women...when will that EVER be the case? lol!) But what helped was what a great reaction HE has to all of it. He's seen me from pretty much every angle, in various stages of undress (thank you, camera phones!) and definitely likes what he sees, so it quells my insecurities.

There are definitely guys out there who appreciate real women with real bodies and real experiences. I am crossing my fingers for you that your guy is one of them. All the best, honey! ♥

Thank you so much! That helps. A lot.

Good luck with your journey and man! : )

KeyMasterOfGozer

I'm a man, so I hope I qualify to give advice.

Firstly, a lot of men don't engage brain before opening mouth, so in all likelihood it was just a flip comment that means absolutely nothing at all.

Secondly, 300lbs is pretty much spot on, so maybe he knows somehow. if that's the case, and he's still seeing you, he doesn't care. Win!

Thirdly, if he's worth his salt, when he does find out he should be impressed. If all he can focus on is a few scars, kick him to the kerb and find someone less shallow.

Lastly, do you have to tell him straightaway? Maybe you won't want to leave it too long, but at the outset probably not.

HTH

That's funny and creepy at the same time. He is a cop and my driver's license picture is definitely a fat picture... Maybe he guessed 300?!!!

I think you're reading too much into it. I don't know the context of the conversation that went along with the this final text message, but it sounds like an innocent joke. Guys bond with each other through good-natured ribbing all the time. This is often a sign of affection. 300 pounds is a round number, and one that someone might use because they didn't think you would ever be that heavy. I doubt if he meant anything by it, and I don't think you should take it that way.

I agree with the other guys here, that he will likely be impressed that you are capable of the effort it take to lose 120 pounds. I am.

mea9

I'm a man, so I hope I qualify to give advice.

Firstly, a lot of men don't engage brain before opening mouth, so in all likelihood it was just a flip comment that means absolutely nothing at all.

Secondly, 300lbs is pretty much spot on, so maybe he knows somehow. if that's the case, and he's still seeing you, he doesn't care. Win!

Thirdly, if he's worth his salt, when he does find out he should be impressed. If all he can focus on is a few scars, kick him to the kerb and find someone less shallow.

Lastly, do you have to tell him straightaway? Maybe you won't want to leave it too long, but at the outset probably not.

HTH

That's funny and creepy at the same time. He is a cop and my driver's license picture is definitely a fat picture... Maybe he guessed 300?!!!

So not only did he make the comment knowing that you used to be 300lbs (they are trained to guess this very accurately) but he looked up your file on the police database without your consent or legal reason. Dump him now and don't look back! Both those things are inexcusable.

JeanneTops

I'm in favor of not telling him right away. Although with such a great accomplishment, I can see that eating right and exercise would be a big part of your dating conversation.

What you have to answer for yourself with all new people you meet is: When you think of what your initial first impression, what do you think: I am a 300lb+ woman who has now lost 120lbs or I am a great looking woman? Obviously, people who have never seen you before, don't know what you used to weigh and their lasting first impression is going to be how you look now. But what is YOUR lasting first impression of how you look? If you still think of your looks as how you looked when you weighed 300lbs+, then you will feel like you're hiding something when you meet new people and will want to tell them you've lost a lot of weight.

But that larger sized woman is gone and there's no reason to bring her back. Eventually, if you like this guy, you will want to tell him. But tell him as a great looking woman who has earned the right to look good and is going to stay that way, not as a 300lb+ unhappy woman who may be lurking around waiting to come back.

And although that "joke" set my teeth on edge, I agree with the guy who said that men tend to joke first and engage brain later. So I'd give him a one-time-only pass. One more joke like that and ditch him.

jpd10905

I'm a man, so I hope I qualify to give advice.

Firstly, a lot of men don't engage brain before opening mouth, so in all likelihood it was just a flip comment that means absolutely nothing at all.

Secondly, 300lbs is pretty much spot on, so maybe he knows somehow. if that's the case, and he's still seeing you, he doesn't care. Win!

Thirdly, if he's worth his salt, when he does find out he should be impressed. If all he can focus on is a few scars, kick him to the kerb and find someone less shallow.

Lastly, do you have to tell him straightaway? Maybe you won't want to leave it too long, but at the outset probably not.

HTH

That's funny and creepy at the same time. He is a cop and my driver's license picture is definitely a fat picture... Maybe he guessed 300?!!!

So not only did he make the comment knowing that you used to be 300lbs (they are trained to guess this very accurately) but he looked up your file on the police database without your consent or legal reason. Dump him now and don't look back! Both those things are inexcusable.

I don't know that he for sure did... I was guessing. That would probably make him a dbag for sure. LOL

McKayMachina

I'm a man, so I hope I qualify to give advice.

Firstly, a lot of men don't engage brain before opening mouth, so in all likelihood it was just a flip comment that means absolutely nothing at all.

Secondly, 300lbs is pretty much spot on, so maybe he knows somehow. if that's the case, and he's still seeing you, he doesn't care. Win!

Thirdly, if he's worth his salt, when he does find out he should be impressed. If all he can focus on is a few scars, kick him to the kerb and find someone less shallow.

Lastly, do you have to tell him straightaway? Maybe you won't want to leave it too long, but at the outset probably not.

HTH

That's funny and creepy at the same time. He is a cop and my driver's license picture is definitely a fat picture... Maybe he guessed 300?!!!

So not only did he make the comment knowing that you used to be 300lbs (they are trained to guess this very accurately) but he looked up your file on the police database without your consent or legal reason. Dump him now and don't look back! Both those things are inexcusable.

You're kinda assumptive, eh? It was just a comment about how online daters are sometimes deceitful about their weight, height, age, job status, whatever! It was just a mindless joke. Chill. ;p

jpd10905

I sense that you are reading too much into a text message from a stranger and over analyzing it. And I personally like the French woman's approach to issues with personal weight modifications (losing or gaining weight), which is that it is a very personal issue and rarely discussed with strangers or even with friends. And with regard to making positive first impressions, you may find the chapter on self-disclosure in this excellent book very helpful:

http://www.firstimpressionsconsulting.com/index.html

And remember that confidence is very alluring.

Thank you! The book is great information! I'm reading now...

BrianJLamb

I am potentially going to come off as a d-bag here...sorry if people don't like what I say, but I will be speaking the truth.

To call the guy a scumbag or say he isn't worth something if he wouldn't have been attracted to the old, heavier you is absurd. People have preferences and you can say all you want that someone is superficial or fake or a bum if he wouldn't have taken the obese you is like saying that a girl who would be willing to date me now as someone with a job would be a worthless b*tch if she wouldn't have dated me if I was a homeless guy living on a street corner. You might be a great person with wonderful insights and an awesome sense of humor, but people are attracted to certain things. If he likes you now, that is what matters.

On the dating site thing....I used to hit dating sites A LOT!!! Girls always lied about their body types and it was frustrating as *kitten* to deal with. I am a smaller guy and I like smaller girls. I am not in shape by any means and wasn't looking for a model chick, but I am small framed and I like girls who are the smaller side. People post the best pictures of themselves that they can take and then only half resemble what they are selling. It isn't cool. I used to be honest on the sites and girls wouldn't give me the time of day, and as frustrating as it was, I was ok with that. I would rather a girl shoot me down because she thinks she is going to find a guy who is super hot, all dieseled up, sweet and considerate, funny, intelligent, into cooking and romantic moments, willing to pay for everything, etc. Something has to give and sooner or later, the good people realize exactly what it is that HAS to give and they get real.

There are plenty of people out their who you will like and who will like you back. Sometimes the spark continues when you meet the other person and sometimes it doesn't. You posting the question, highlights your insecurities/personal demons in dealing with body image and other peoples' perceptions of you, which is completely understandable, BUT those concerns surfacing, potentially putting a little crazy in you, are going to be the issue. Nothing was a bigger turnoff or scare than a girl who was so preoccupied with the possibility of being let down or sidestepped that she got all sorts of weird.

I think everyone in here has been concerned at one point or another about how someone else perceived them. I think you need to worry more about how you perceive you. You are doing awesome. You are improving you life. You are striving to meet goals. You are motivated by healthy lifestyle. You are making you a better, healthier you. Realize that all of your accomplishments help to make you a more amazing person and bring that to the table. Whether or not this guy gets it, whether or not it works out, be confident that you got the goods on you. They are yours to share when and where you want. Don't be so concerned about what he might think and instead concern yourself with what you know. Nothing is sexier and more attractive than a confident woman.

AlsDonkBoxSquat

I haven't completely met my goal weight yet, but I'm starting to date and am using online dating to meet people. No one knows my history, and only sees new, normal size me, and not 335 lb. me. They have no idea that I've lost over 120 lbs.

Now I'm shaken to the core because last night I was having a great conversation with someone new. I like him. He doesn't want someone who is too into their body image, but understandably wants someone who takes care of themselves and exercises regularly. That's me. He likes me back (so far). We talked about his birthday that just passed and lots of other things, and have really good chemistry. So, we made plans to meet for coffee tomorrow. His closing text to me was "Talk to you later. No [birthday] present required. Just show up on Tuesday and don't be 300 lbs! lmao."

What do I do with that??!!!! How much do I tell someone that I just met? How do you say I won't be 300 lbs. tomorrow, but by the way, I was 300 lbs. this past January. I'm having surgery in December to remove the extra skin (that obviously I hid well under clothes), but what do I do about that? Do I tell? How can I feel comfortable with someone new? Do I cancel coffee? He didn't know he was being a complete d-bag....

Opinions and guidance please (especially from men, if possible.) I'm lost.

You said yourself he's into women who are fit and active, so he probably wouldn't have dated you when you were 300 pounds, he has weight prejudices. Through your current dating adventure I’m sure you will encounter this quite a bit because they are dating you now, not when you were 300 pounds. He’s interested in who you are, not who you were, and I don’t really see much of a reason to tell him who you were unless he pushes the weight issue. If he sits in public and talks about people around you or in general who are overweight and is rude about it then I think it’s completely appropriate to let him know where you come from and that a lot more sensitivity in general should be used because you never know who you’re talking to, but why bring it up on a first date? However, it is something that would be wonderful to share a few more dates down the line, in a positive and not defensive way.

Shanna_Inc86

I did online dating... most of the time the pictures are not accurate and so that text message was purly aimed at that.

I would say tell him within the first couple of in person dates. But when the topic naturally goes to health. Like if you talk about how much you exercise or what "diet" you are following to stay healthy. I actually told my guy that I use MFP and that I probably would for a long time because I don't plan on gaining the weight back. He accepted that and we are happy now.

But if you don't think that you two have the inperson chemistry, don't spill you beans to him. There is no need for him to know

I gotta say I totally agree with this ^^^^

Congratulations on the loss, that is amazing but it is rather personal.

Gigi_licious

I don't think he was being a d-bag, I think he was just saying "Don't look completely different from your pic". But I vote tell him when you're comfortable with it.

Huskeryogi

I did online dating... most of the time the pictures are not accurate and so that text message was purly aimed at that.

I would say tell him within the first couple of in person dates. But when the topic naturally goes to health. Like if you talk about how much you exercise or what "diet" you are following to stay healthy. I actually told my guy that I use MFP and that I probably would for a long time because I don't plan on gaining the weight back. He accepted that and we are happy now.

But if you don't think that you two have the inperson chemistry, don't spill you beans to him. There is no need for him to know

I gotta say I totally agree with this ^^^^

Congratulations on the loss, that is amazing but it is rather personal.

Me too. I have done the online dating thing and soooo many times the picture is 5-10 years old.

kaetmarie

I agree with what a lot of other people were saying...it doesn't need to come up right away, but it does need to be brought up eventually. If he's the right guy, he'll be supportive and amazed (YOU LOOK AWESOME!) -- if not, you'll find someone who is. Also, I'm a strong believer that you'll know when it's the right time to share...when I first met my husband, I shared things with him (early on!) that I never shared with anyone else. That level of comfort and trust is such an important component in a relationship. Good luck and congratulations on your amazing success!!

rvice2

Has he seen you before? My guess is he has experienced online dating in situations where the person's picture wasn't them and they lied about the way they looked. That happens a lot. While it was a rude thing to say - it is a man, so there you go. I would give it a few more dates and if you really like him and things seem to be going well then tell him. On the other hand, if he is truly as rude as his text then you will see much more of this personality and you can decide then if it is worth it. You look amazing! Great job!

_Timmeh_

Meet him for coffee, you'll be able to tell during that time if he is a d-bag.
If he seems nice and sincere, then go for it and at some point during a conversation bring it up.
If he is a d-bag then all you've wasted is coffee and he doesn't need to know. His loss.

Foot in mouth disease, it happens.

jpd10905

I am potentially going to come off as a d-bag here...sorry if people don't like what I say, but I will be speaking the truth.

To call the guy a scumbag or say he isn't worth something if he wouldn't have been attracted to the old, heavier you is absurd. People have preferences and you can say all you want that someone is superficial or fake or a bum if he wouldn't have taken the obese you is like saying that a girl who would be willing to date me now as someone with a job would be a worthless b*tch if she wouldn't have dated me if I was a homeless guy living on a street corner. You might be a great person with wonderful insights and an awesome sense of humor, but people are attracted to certain things. If he likes you now, that is what matters.

On the dating site thing....I used to hit dating sites A LOT!!! Girls always lied about their body types and it was frustrating as *kitten* to deal with. I am a smaller guy and I like smaller girls. I am not in shape by any means and wasn't looking for a model chick, but I am small framed and I like girls who are the smaller side. People post the best pictures of themselves that they can take and then only half resemble what they are selling. It isn't cool. I used to be honest on the sites and girls wouldn't give me the time of day, and as frustrating as it was, I was ok with that. I would rather a girl shoot me down because she thinks she is going to find a guy who is super hot, all dieseled up, sweet and considerate, funny, intelligent, into cooking and romantic moments, willing to pay for everything, etc. Something has to give and sooner or later, the good people realize exactly what it is that HAS to give and they get real.

There are plenty of people out their who you will like and who will like you back. Sometimes the spark continues when you meet the other person and sometimes it doesn't. You posting the question, highlights your insecurities/personal demons in dealing with body image and other peoples' perceptions of you, which is completely understandable, BUT those concerns surfacing, potentially putting a little crazy in you, are going to be the issue. Nothing was a bigger turnoff or scare than a girl who was so preoccupied with the possibility of being let down or sidestepped that she got all sorts of weird.

I think everyone in here has been concerned at one point or another about how someone else perceived them. I think you need to worry more about how you perceive you. You are doing awesome. You are improving you life. You are striving to meet goals. You are motivated by healthy lifestyle. You are making you a better, healthier you. Realize that all of your accomplishments help to make you a more amazing person and bring that to the table. Whether or not this guy gets it, whether or not it works out, be confident that you got the goods on you. They are yours to share when and where you want. Don't be so concerned about what he might think and instead concern yourself with what you know. Nothing is sexier and more attractive than a confident woman.

I don't think that you are a d-bag. I think that you are right about everything.

I'm not a little crazy...I'm probably a lot crazy right now. I have big body issues that I'm trying to work through. I came to the forum today looking for support. But, I'm hoping that they get better every day. I'm working on it.

I really appreciate your input. I asked for the male perspective and got it!

Good luck to you!

jpd10905

I'm in favor of not telling him right away. Although with such a great accomplishment, I can see that eating right and exercise would be a big part of your dating conversation.

What you have to answer for yourself with all new people you meet is: When you think of what your initial first impression, what do you think: I am a 300lb+ woman who has now lost 120lbs or I am a great looking woman? Obviously, people who have never seen you before, don't know what you used to weigh and their lasting first impression is going to be how you look now. But what is YOUR lasting first impression of how you look? If you still think of your looks as how you looked when you weighed 300lbs+, then you will feel like you're hiding something when you meet new people and will want to tell them you've lost a lot of weight.

But that larger sized woman is gone and there's no reason to bring her back. Eventually, if you like this guy, you will want to tell him. But tell him as a great looking woman who has earned the right to look good and is going to stay that way, not as a 300lb+ unhappy woman who may be lurking around waiting to come back.

And although that "joke" set my teeth on edge, I agree with the guy who said that men tend to joke first and engage brain later. So I'd give him a one-time-only pass. One more joke like that and ditch him.

Thanks. Working on reminding myself I'm not that 300+ lbs person.

bloodbank

I've got pretty thick skin, so a comment like that wouldn't really bother me...

But honestly, right after meeting him I'd probably say "It's funny that you said 'don't be 300 lbs' because, and one day maybe I'll show you a picture, but I really used to weigh that much!" - I think it says a lot of really great things about someone (a) to be that open & honest and (b) who is obviously in control of their life.

And really... if he decides he doesn't like you because you used to be fat? Well, probably better to find that out before you get attached.

jpd10905

He looked up my dl. Called me on it last night. Said I should be very proud and that I obviously worked very hard. Lots of that kind of stuff. Said I should go get a new pix cause I look very different now and my secret is safe with him. I was floored.

Going to meet him for coffee tonight...

If someone tells me how to insert the dl picture. Omg it's awful!!!!

megz4987

I say wait it out. When I met my fiancé I had lost 110lb and didn't tell him until a few months into the relationship. It's a big accomplishment and obviously something to be very proud of but don't feel like you have to tell these men you're dating. Let then get to know who you are and id they're worth it, tell them.

kit_katty

He looked up my dl. Called me on it last night. Said I should be very proud and that I obviously worked very hard. Lots of that kind of stuff. Said I should go get a new pix cause I look very different now and my secret is safe with him. I was floored.

Going to meet him for coffee tonight...

If someone tells me how to insert the dl picture. Omg it's awful!!!!

Wow, good for him! I'm glad he realized how great it is that you lost all that weight and was supportive!

Congrats on your weightloss!

mea9

He looked up my dl. Called me on it last night. Said I should be very proud and that I obviously worked very hard. Lots of that kind of stuff. Said I should go get a new pix cause I look very different now and my secret is safe with him. I was floored.

Going to meet him for coffee tonight...

If someone tells me how to insert the dl picture. Omg it's awful!!!!

He had no business doing that. I have a really big problem with that. I have had issues with a guy I "dated" 25 years ago who later became a police officer. He has used my file as much as he could. He is a stalker. I have had nothing but problems. I have read that at least 30% of police officer think that stalking a former partner is a "perk of the job". I can not caution you strongly enough. Please REALLY think about this. This is a guy you don't know who knows where you live, the make/model/plate number of the car you drive. You don't know those things about him. You do know he has no respect for your privacy.

jpd10905

He looked up my dl. Called me on it last night. Said I should be very proud and that I obviously worked very hard. Lots of that kind of stuff. Said I should go get a new pix cause I look very different now and my secret is safe with him. I was floored.

Going to meet him for coffee tonight...

If someone tells me how to insert the dl picture. Omg it's awful!!!!

He had no business doing that. I have a really big problem with that. I have had issues with a guy I "dated" 25 years ago who later became a police officer. He has used my file as much as he could. He is a stalker. I have had nothing but problems. I have read that at least 30% of police officer think that stalking a former partner is a "perk of the job". I can not caution you strongly enough. Please REALLY think about this. This is a guy you don't know who knows where you live, the make/model/plate number of the car you drive. You don't know those things about him. You do know he has no respect for your privacy.

Ewww creepy stalker!

I didn't like the cop anyway. I don't think I'll be seeing him again! I think a big part of it was the fact that he invaded my privacy. Then...there was no spark!

jpd10905

I say wait it out. When I met my fiancé I had lost 110lb and didn't tell him until a few months into the relationship. It's a big accomplishment and obviously something to be very proud of but don't feel like you have to tell these men you're dating. Let then get to know who you are and id they're worth it, tell them.

Wow! That's so great that you lost all of that weight! I am happy for you that you met the right person and could ultimately share it with him. : )

KatyG0409

I would definitely have that conversation with him if things seem to be going well at coffee. If not, no love lost -- no love found.

If you two hit it off I would casually mention that 'Hey I know you didn't realize you were being a complete moron (maybe not those words exactly haha), but I have ate well and exercised a lot to not be 300 lbs like I was in January. Your comment is a bit disheartening after all of my hard work.' If he likes you at all he will understand and apologize. If he doesn't, there is someone better than him out there for you.

Good luck!