low carb or not?

Acg67

here's the main difference, you can't control your growth, you can control your eating.

Both children were "overeating." The child with giantism could not have gained the weight (and height) without taking in more calories than needed to maintain (and more child than a normally growing 8-year-old).

but the weight is to support his growing frame and new mass, in the obese child that is not the case

But his frame would not be growing without his "overeating."

i'm not sure if growth hormone among other things can just cause growth in a malnourished body or not, i'd lean towards it can, they would just be super skinny and little muscle mass

bcattoes

There are fat horses, pigs, dogs, cats, most anything that we domesticate and overfeed. In the wild they have to work for it. If we had to work for our food we probably wouldn't be fat either.

Overfeed with what? Food they aren't adapted to eat. My cat doesn't have to work for the raw meat and doesn't gorge on it.

Again, thermodynamics tells us that if we "overfeed" an animal, that animal should burn off the excess. The equation needs to be balanced. If I were to force-feed my cat more meat that it needs, you can sure as heck bet he's going to either be more active or eat less over the next day or two, despite there being a constant source of food.

If I gave my dog enough meat to fill her up. She'd beg for more. And she'd eat it. This would continue until she was sure I wasn't giving her anymore. Then she'd go curl up on couch or porch swing. She might get up if the cat from next door wandered into the yard, but after that she'd just lay back down. We live a rural area where she's free to roam, but she's pretty lazy most of the time. And a little overweight, though she wasn't when she was younger.

I'm not sure where all this is going though. What does this have to do with carbs and fat babies?

I don't know, this has gotten way off track. The point being, why are we storing excessive amounts of fat instead of burning off the excess energy? The first law of thermodynamics must apply for maintaining our weight, too.

I think that's the sloth (i.e. lazy) part. We know we should get up and move. We just don't. How many inventions and inovations in the past few decades have been made for no other reason than to prevent us from having to move?

questionablemethods

here's the main difference, you can't control your growth, you can control your eating.

Both children were "overeating." The child with giantism could not have gained the weight (and height) without taking in more calories than needed to maintain (and more child than a normally growing 8-year-old).

but the weight is to support his growing frame and new mass, in the obese child that is not the case

But his frame would not be growing without his "overeating."

i'm not sure if growth hormone among other things can just cause growth in a malnourished body or not, i'd lean towards it can, they would just be super skinny and little muscle mass

I don't know either, I suppose it is possible. The point being that "overeating" isn't the cause of the child growing to be 6 feet tall at 8 years old. In the case of the child with giantism we can so easily realize that there is something driving the overeating and that the overeating is not the cause of his growth. But in terms of an obese child, the overeating (or gluttony/sloth) are seen as the cause.

You say you can't control growth, but can control eating. And that, I guess, is where Taubes's is saying, no, some people's bodies CAN'T control the eating. Yes, they can meticulously weigh and measure every bite that goes into their mouth and lose weight (and be hungry all the time, and regain weight as soon as they stop paying attention) and other people can just naturally regulate how much they eat. They eat a tasty rich dessert, they unconsciously take in less food the next day or expend a bit more (though this is becoming exceedingly rare in the Western world). Where does that unconscious regulation come from and how can we induce it in others?

Bringing it back to the point of this thread, for me, I've found it easier to unconsciously regulate my intake by eating low-ish carb paleo. So... yay. Seems to be working for me so far.

questionablemethods

I think that's the sloth (i.e. lazy) part. We know we should get up and move. We just don't. How many inventions and inovations in the past few decades have been made for no other reason than to prevent us from having to move?

We shouldn't have a choice in the matter. We've taken in more than we need, it must go -- caloric balance must apply. Why don't our metabolisms speed up? Why don't we fidget more? Why don't we naturally eat less the next meal?

bcattoes

I think that's the sloth (i.e. lazy) part. We know we should get up and move. We just don't. How many inventions and inovations in the past few decades have been made for no other reason than to prevent us from having to move?

We shouldn't have a choice in the matter. We've taken in more than we need, it must go -- caloric balance must apply. Why don't our metabolisms speed up? Why don't we fidget more? Why don't we naturally eat less the next meal?

Free will?

questionablemethods

I think that's the sloth (i.e. lazy) part. We know we should get up and move. We just don't. How many inventions and inovations in the past few decades have been made for no other reason than to prevent us from having to move?

We shouldn't have a choice in the matter. We've taken in more than we need, it must go -- caloric balance must apply. Why don't our metabolisms speed up? Why don't we fidget more? Why don't we naturally eat less the next meal?

Free will?

I wasn't aware that free will can override the laws of physics. :happy:

bcattoes

I think that's the sloth (i.e. lazy) part. We know we should get up and move. We just don't. How many inventions and inovations in the past few decades have been made for no other reason than to prevent us from having to move?

We shouldn't have a choice in the matter. We've taken in more than we need, it must go -- caloric balance must apply. Why don't our metabolisms speed up? Why don't we fidget more? Why don't we naturally eat less the next meal?

Free will?

I wasn't aware that free will can override the laws of physics. :happy:

If I want to lie on the sofa overeating all day long there is no law to stop me, whether I'm eating meat or carbs or some man-made food type substance. I don't even have to get up to change the channel or answer the phone. Gluttony and sloth.

questionablemethods

I think that's the sloth (i.e. lazy) part. We know we should get up and move. We just don't. How many inventions and inovations in the past few decades have been made for no other reason than to prevent us from having to move?

We shouldn't have a choice in the matter. We've taken in more than we need, it must go -- caloric balance must apply. Why don't our metabolisms speed up? Why don't we fidget more? Why don't we naturally eat less the next meal?

Free will?

I wasn't aware that free will can override the laws of physics. :happy:

If I want to lie on the sofa overeating all day long there is no law to stop me, whether I'm eating meat or carbs or some man-made food type substance. I don't even have to get up to change the channel or answer the phone. Gluttony and sloth.

By laws of physics I mean that you have to be in energy balance. If you take in more than you need to maintain, you should unconsciously burn it off. Even if you lay around all day and don't change the channel or answer the phone, your metabolism should rise to burn off the excess and/or you should unconsciously lower your subsequent intake(s) to bring you back into balance.

Also see my comment regarding the child with Giantism.

I think I'm done responding to this thread. It's been an interesting discussion.

funkycamper

They became obese by accumulating fat. His hypothesis is that this fat accumulation is directly affected by the body's insulin production. I think it is slightly more complicated that than as I think there are other hormones which effect this fat accumulation but I believe like him that insulin is the primary one to be concerned with and think that his hypothesis is worth testing.

and did this accumulation of fat happen in a consistent caloric deficit or surplus?

Obviously in a consistent surplus. But why are they constantly eating at surplus? Simple gluttony and sloth?

I say yes! People who don't admit that they got fat because they ate too much and exercised too little are just lying to either themselves and/or everyone else. Whether you say "carbs make me want to eat more" or "fat makes me want to eat more" or "XXXX makes me want to eat more", the fact is that nothing other than your own gluttony and sloth actually made you eat more. Just because you find food tasty and want more does not make the food guilty when you get fat. You ate it. You did it. You are guilty.

If you can lose better by avoiding the food, then absolutely you should do that, whatever the food is. But it is still you who lack the self control, not the food.

(you = general "you", not any specific person).

And that's a bunch of BS. If carbs don't negatively effect you, congratulations. But don't speak for the rest of us. Throughout my 30's and 40's, I kept gaining weight on a low-fat/high-carb diet as promoted to me by both a dietitian and the contemporary thinking about what healthy eating was. And I was not a glutton or a sloth. I have years of food diaries showing that I rarely ate more than 1500 calories a day and, many days, much less. I also exercised regularly. I have only been able to lose weight if I also cut my carbs, no matter how much exercise I do.

Another point is that when eating low-fat/high-carb, even though I didn't eat a lot, I was starving all the time. I never felt satisfied, I would start thinking about my next meal before I had the dishes washed from what I just ate, and I was totally and completely miserable over it. This was all odd to me because, before my pregnancies, I had always been thin and a light eater and was never hungry. Now I was fat, a light eater, and always hungry. What the heck?

It wasn't until I cut the carbs down dramatically that I could lose weight (a total of 54# from my highest) and eat light without being hungry. In fact, these days, I often have to remember to eat as I could go all day without eating as long as breakfast is more protein-based. If I slip and have a bowl of cereal, I'm starving in an hour, even if it's something extremely healthy like All-Bran.

My overall calories eaten per day have not necessarily decreased as I have always eaten light even as a child and, unfortunately, believe I do have a damaged metabolism because of it. So I do have to eat less than many other folks here at MFP in order to lose which is a bummer. But the fact remains that I could eat the same calorie level with carbs and gain weight and starve or eat that same calorie level without many carbs and lose weight and not be hungry.

As for your sloth accusations, eating lots of carbs didn't prevent me from exercising but it did make me sleepy and I would often have to nap often after meals, even a small meal of only about 300 calories total. Without the carbs, I never have to nap because of a meal because my blood sugar doesn't spike. Maybe you're observing people who are carb-sensitive and having these same reactions and that is making you think they are sloths? But if they are, it's not intentional or a choice but a by-product of the carbs in their diet. At least based on my own experience.

I just find your statement extremely offensive. It doesn't reflect my reality at all. And I'm sure it doesn't reflect the reality of all overweight people. I'm not saying that it might not apply to some but you can't make an assumption that it applies to all. In fact, what you're saying sounds like ignorance based on a stereotype which is just another form of bigotry.

Hanni

Hi,

I agree with you funkycamper. I felt the same.
I put on so much weight because I ate mainly pasta, bread, rice, pizza... I cannot do the golden middle do the wholegrain rice/pasta/bread thing... :noway: I have decided to go low carb. I started by reducing the carbs I ate, for some time I ate only a roll or cereal at breakfast and the rest of day I would not touch those types of carbs but I would still feel hungry an hour after my breakfast! So then I cut it out completely. I have lasted a week so far and to be honest I cannot even say I miss it. I eat veg and fruit (fruit in moderation) and get my carbs from that. I like scrambled egg for breakfast and if I put some veg in it (tomatoes and mushrooms for example) it is also really filling.
I dont get the cravings half way through the morning anymore that would have made me eat a cookie (or two or three!) around 10am and then watch the clock to strike noon so I can run and get my lunch and them some cookies in the afternoon of course... :noway:
I dont feel hungry at all now throughout the day and sometimes it gets to 2pm before I want lunch which is usually a salad. In the evenings I load my plate with veg and eat a sausage or chicken or turkey or fish with it. Sometimes I just eat veg on its own. I would have never thought this would fill me up. I had it in my head that only pasta (and loads of it!) or a whole pizza could fill me... I know that if I was to eat a sandwhich, muffin or a croissant now for breakfast, then I would crave carbs the whole day and I would probably have a sandwich for lunch and pasta or pizza for dinner! :grumble:

So for me low carb is the best way to teach me a healthier lifestyle. I am not doing much exercise at the moment as I broke my ankle not too long ago and it still hurts like hell. I walk but dont go on the cross trainer and am not riding my horse either right now. Once I start with exercise again in a couple of weeks I will see how it goes with introducing brown rice in tiny amounts. But I definitely have to stay away from pasta, pizza, bread and potatos or I will just never change my habits. Think it depends a lot on the individual and what they feel works best for them.

PreshelledPistachio

Whether you say "carbs make me want to eat more" or "fat makes me want to eat more" or "XXXX makes me want to eat more", the fact is that nothing other than your own gluttony and sloth actually made you eat more. Just because you find food tasty and want more does not make the food guilty when you get fat. You ate it. You did it. You are guilty.

I want to eat more when I eat carbs, because they don't keep me full. I can eat a huge bowl of porridge for breakfast and be hungry mid morning. But if I eat eggs scrambled in butter for breakfast I don't even think about food until lunchtime. I actually like the taste of eggs more than porridge - I only ate porridge because everyone says it's healthy and filling so I thought it would be good for me.

I have had acanthosis nigricans since I was in my early teens, yet I wasn't fat in my teens. It's caused by insulin resistance and another symptom of insulin resistance is increased hunger. I probably have PCOS because I have the symptoms of it and my sister has been diagnosed and it's a genetic condition. Unfortunately I only found all this out in my 30s so I spent my 20s eating potatoes, pasta, bread and being hungry all the time, eventually coming to the conclusion that I was indeed just a fat lazy worthless sloth that deserves to be fat and unhappy. Posts like yours reinforce that.

martinah4

They became obese by accumulating fat. His hypothesis is that this fat accumulation is directly affected by the body's insulin production. I think it is slightly more complicated that than as I think there are other hormones which effect this fat accumulation but I believe like him that insulin is the primary one to be concerned with and think that his hypothesis is worth testing.

and did this accumulation of fat happen in a consistent caloric deficit or surplus?

It seems like you've read Taube's book? So you must have read the chapter that deals with severely malnourished children with obese mothers? Also the chapter that addresses why poorer populations have higher obesity rates? Or did you cherry pick Taubes' book, and only pull out sentences so you can use them out of context?

martinah4

I say yes! People who don't admit that they got fat because they ate too much and exercised too little are just lying to either themselves and/or everyone else. Whether you say "carbs make me want to eat more" or "fat makes me want to eat more" or "XXXX makes me want to eat more", the fact is that nothing other than your own gluttony and sloth actually made you eat more. Just because you find food tasty and want more does not make the food guilty when you get fat. You ate it. You did it. You are guilty.

Why is there a growing number of obese infants? Also gluttony and sloth?

Exactly...they aren't being forced to eat too much. They are probably nursing or on formula at this stage. Babies tend to eat until they are satisfied.

Yes. Gluttony and sloth of the parent(s). That's where the cycle begins.

I don't quite understand how that works with a 6-month-old.

martinah4

The flaw with that theory is that there should have been much more obese babies in the past, because there were many more babies fed formula in the past. The push to return to breast feeding didn't happen until the late 70's early 80's. But in the 50's, 60's and 70's (and probably before) obese infants and children were rare.

Good point. Is formula exactly the same as it was then?

I'm not sure it's the formula. I think it has to do with the obese mothers, and how and what the baby is getting in the womb, and in turn, the baby is born pre-disposed to become insulin-resistant.

bcattoes

Whether you say "carbs make me want to eat more" or "fat makes me want to eat more" or "XXXX makes me want to eat more", the fact is that nothing other than your own gluttony and sloth actually made you eat more. Just because you find food tasty and want more does not make the food guilty when you get fat. You ate it. You did it. You are guilty.

I want to eat more when I eat carbs, because they don't keep me full. I can eat a huge bowl of porridge for breakfast and be hungry mid morning. But if I eat eggs scrambled in butter for breakfast I don't even think about food until lunchtime. I actually like the taste of eggs more than porridge - I only ate porridge because everyone says it's healthy and filling so I thought it would be good for me.

I have had acanthosis nigricans since I was in my early teens, yet I wasn't fat in my teens. It's caused by insulin resistance and another symptom of insulin resistance is increased hunger. I probably have PCOS because I have the symptoms of it and my sister has been diagnosed and it's a genetic condition. Unfortunately I only found all this out in my 30s so I spent my 20s eating potatoes, pasta, bread and being hungry all the time, eventually coming to the conclusion that I was indeed just a fat lazy worthless sloth that deserves to be fat and unhappy. Posts like yours reinforce that.

It is unfortunate that you had an undiagnosed disease for so long, but it doesn't really change my point. Having a disease that makes you process foods differently than others means that the "general rules" of nutrition don't necessarily apply to you, but it was still you that chose to eat the pasta, bread and potatoes instead of healthier foods.

bcattoes

They became obese by accumulating fat. His hypothesis is that this fat accumulation is directly affected by the body's insulin production. I think it is slightly more complicated that than as I think there are other hormones which effect this fat accumulation but I believe like him that insulin is the primary one to be concerned with and think that his hypothesis is worth testing.

and did this accumulation of fat happen in a consistent caloric deficit or surplus?

Obviously in a consistent surplus. But why are they constantly eating at surplus? Simple gluttony and sloth?

I say yes! People who don't admit that they got fat because they ate too much and exercised too little are just lying to either themselves and/or everyone else. Whether you say "carbs make me want to eat more" or "fat makes me want to eat more" or "XXXX makes me want to eat more", the fact is that nothing other than your own gluttony and sloth actually made you eat more. Just because you find food tasty and want more does not make the food guilty when you get fat. You ate it. You did it. You are guilty.

If you can lose better by avoiding the food, then absolutely you should do that, whatever the food is. But it is still you who lack the self control, not the food.

(you = general "you", not any specific person).

And that's a bunch of BS. If carbs don't negatively effect you, congratulations. But don't speak for the rest of us. Throughout my 30's and 40's, I kept gaining weight on a low-fat/high-carb diet as promoted to me by both a dietitian and the contemporary thinking about what healthy eating was. And I was not a glutton or a sloth. I have years of food diaries showing that I rarely ate more than 1500 calories a day and, many days, much less. I also exercised regularly. I have only been able to lose weight if I also cut my carbs, no matter how much exercise I do.

Another point is that when eating low-fat/high-carb, even though I didn't eat a lot, I was starving all the time. I never felt satisfied, I would start thinking about my next meal before I had the dishes washed from what I just ate, and I was totally and completely miserable over it. This was all odd to me because, before my pregnancies, I had always been thin and a light eater and was never hungry. Now I was fat, a light eater, and always hungry. What the heck?

It wasn't until I cut the carbs down dramatically that I could lose weight (a total of 54# from my highest) and eat light without being hungry. In fact, these days, I often have to remember to eat as I could go all day without eating as long as breakfast is more protein-based. If I slip and have a bowl of cereal, I'm starving in an hour, even if it's something extremely healthy like All-Bran.

My overall calories eaten per day have not necessarily decreased as I have always eaten light even as a child and, unfortunately, believe I do have a damaged metabolism because of it. So I do have to eat less than many other folks here at MFP in order to lose which is a bummer. But the fact remains that I could eat the same calorie level with carbs and gain weight and starve or eat that same calorie level without many carbs and lose weight and not be hungry.

As for your sloth accusations, eating lots of carbs didn't prevent me from exercising but it did make me sleepy and I would often have to nap often after meals, even a small meal of only about 300 calories total. Without the carbs, I never have to nap because of a meal because my blood sugar doesn't spike. Maybe you're observing people who are carb-sensitive and having these same reactions and that is making you think they are sloths? But if they are, it's not intentional or a choice but a by-product of the carbs in their diet. At least based on my own experience.

I just find your statement extremely offensive. It doesn't reflect my reality at all. And I'm sure it doesn't reflect the reality of all overweight people. I'm not saying that it might not apply to some but you can't make an assumption that it applies to all. In fact, what you're saying sounds like ignorance based on a stereotype which is just another form of bigotry.

LOL So sorry. I'm sure I'm 100% wrong and the carbs you ate were at fault and not the person who ate them.

luv2ash

For me, I will not add any more carbs than I already do which is about 85-90 grams a day, until I reach my goal weight. At that point, then I will very slowly and gradually add back some carbs, only healthy ones at that.

Scarlett_S

I've done the best on low carb as well. I'm trying to be very conscious of the types of carbs that I do eat - it is way too easy to get carried away and eat the bad kind and the calories add up quickly.

I do tuna salad, chicken salad, grilled chicken salads, chicken breast in my omelets with veggies, different cheeses, steak and salad, grilled turkey burger, oatmeal with almonds, chicken fajita taco and/or salad, refried beans (no fat), etc. It does get boring and its hard the closer you get to goal.

Grokette

here's the main difference, you can't control your growth, you can control your eating.

Both children were "overeating." The child with giantism could not have gained the weight (and height) without taking in more calories than needed to maintain (and more child than a normally growing 8-year-old).

but the weight is to support his growing frame and new mass, in the obese child that is not the case

But his frame would not be growing without his "overeating."

i'm not sure if growth hormone among other things can just cause growth in a malnourished body or not, i'd lean towards it can, they would just be super skinny and little muscle mass

I don't know either, I suppose it is possible. The point being that "overeating" isn't the cause of the child growing to be 6 feet tall at 8 years old. In the case of the child with giantism we can so easily realize that there is something driving the overeating and that the overeating is not the cause of his growth. But in terms of an obese child, the overeating (or gluttony/sloth) are seen as the cause.

You say you can't control growth, but can control eating. And that, I guess, is where Taubes's is saying, no, some people's bodies CAN'T control the eating. Yes, they can meticulously weigh and measure every bite that goes into their mouth and lose weight (and be hungry all the time, and regain weight as soon as they stop paying attention) and other people can just naturally regulate how much they eat. They eat a tasty rich dessert, they unconsciously take in less food the next day or expend a bit more (though this is becoming exceedingly rare in the Western world). Where does that unconscious regulation come from and how can we induce it in others?

Bringing it back to the point of this thread, for me, I've found it easier to unconsciously regulate my intake by eating low-ish carb paleo. So... yay. Seems to be working for me so far.

Cortisol (stressed adrenal glands) and Leptin resistance have a lot to do with this natural regulation.

Grokette

They became obese by accumulating fat. His hypothesis is that this fat accumulation is directly affected by the body's insulin production. I think it is slightly more complicated that than as I think there are other hormones which effect this fat accumulation but I believe like him that insulin is the primary one to be concerned with and think that his hypothesis is worth testing.

and did this accumulation of fat happen in a consistent caloric deficit or surplus?

Obviously in a consistent surplus. But why are they constantly eating at surplus? Simple gluttony and sloth?

I say yes! People who don't admit that they got fat because they ate too much and exercised too little are just lying to either themselves and/or everyone else. Whether you say "carbs make me want to eat more" or "fat makes me want to eat more" or "XXXX makes me want to eat more", the fact is that nothing other than your own gluttony and sloth actually made you eat more. Just because you find food tasty and want more does not make the food guilty when you get fat. You ate it. You did it. You are guilty.

If you can lose better by avoiding the food, then absolutely you should do that, whatever the food is. But it is still you who lack the self control, not the food.

(you = general "you", not any specific person).

And that's a bunch of BS. If carbs don't negatively effect you, congratulations. But don't speak for the rest of us. Throughout my 30's and 40's, I kept gaining weight on a low-fat/high-carb diet as promoted to me by both a dietitian and the contemporary thinking about what healthy eating was. And I was not a glutton or a sloth. I have years of food diaries showing that I rarely ate more than 1500 calories a day and, many days, much less. I also exercised regularly. I have only been able to lose weight if I also cut my carbs, no matter how much exercise I do.

Another point is that when eating low-fat/high-carb, even though I didn't eat a lot, I was starving all the time. I never felt satisfied, I would start thinking about my next meal before I had the dishes washed from what I just ate, and I was totally and completely miserable over it. This was all odd to me because, before my pregnancies, I had always been thin and a light eater and was never hungry. Now I was fat, a light eater, and always hungry. What the heck?

It wasn't until I cut the carbs down dramatically that I could lose weight (a total of 54# from my highest) and eat light without being hungry. In fact, these days, I often have to remember to eat as I could go all day without eating as long as breakfast is more protein-based. If I slip and have a bowl of cereal, I'm starving in an hour, even if it's something extremely healthy like All-Bran.

My overall calories eaten per day have not necessarily decreased as I have always eaten light even as a child and, unfortunately, believe I do have a damaged metabolism because of it. So I do have to eat less than many other folks here at MFP in order to lose which is a bummer. But the fact remains that I could eat the same calorie level with carbs and gain weight and starve or eat that same calorie level without many carbs and lose weight and not be hungry.

As for your sloth accusations, eating lots of carbs didn't prevent me from exercising but it did make me sleepy and I would often have to nap often after meals, even a small meal of only about 300 calories total. Without the carbs, I never have to nap because of a meal because my blood sugar doesn't spike. Maybe you're observing people who are carb-sensitive and having these same reactions and that is making you think they are sloths? But if they are, it's not intentional or a choice but a by-product of the carbs in their diet. At least based on my own experience.

I just find your statement extremely offensive. It doesn't reflect my reality at all. And I'm sure it doesn't reflect the reality of all overweight people. I'm not saying that it might not apply to some but you can't make an assumption that it applies to all. In fact, what you're saying sounds like ignorance based on a stereotype which is just another form of bigotry.

LOL So sorry. I'm sure I'm 100% wrong and the carbs you ate were at fault and not the person who ate them.

Why are you laughing? She is not the only person that has had this happen to. There are plenty of us here as I am another one.

It is the carbs that is causing the weight gain. I can eat 300 calories of carbs and gain weight versus eating 2,000 calories of fat and protein and lose weight.

Please consider doing some reading and research on current research. Not that research that was done in the 1950's that was VERY WRONG.

Sidesteal

<-- not a low carber. I hit my protein and fat minimums and stay at my calorie goal. Carbs end up wherever they end up.

Steven

Dear Posters,

Please make a point of debating the topic under discussion, and refrain from attacks on character or personal insults. I'm going to take a minute to clean out some part of the thread that are attacks on the messenger, rather than debate on the merits of the hypotheses being argued.

Lots of great discussion here, so please keep it above-the-lne so this thread isn't reported again in the future. I'd love to leave it running.

Thanks,
Steven
MyFitnessPal Staff

Grokette

They became obese by accumulating fat. His hypothesis is that this fat accumulation is directly affected by the body's insulin production. I think it is slightly more complicated that than as I think there are other hormones which effect this fat accumulation but I believe like him that insulin is the primary one to be concerned with and think that his hypothesis is worth testing.

and did this accumulation of fat happen in a consistent caloric deficit or surplus?

Obviously in a consistent surplus. But why are they constantly eating at surplus? Simple gluttony and sloth?

I say yes! People who don't admit that they got fat because they ate too much and exercised too little are just lying to either themselves and/or everyone else. Whether you say "carbs make me want to eat more" or "fat makes me want to eat more" or "XXXX makes me want to eat more", the fact is that nothing other than your own gluttony and sloth actually made you eat more. Just because you find food tasty and want more does not make the food guilty when you get fat. You ate it. You did it. You are guilty.

If you can lose better by avoiding the food, then absolutely you should do that, whatever the food is. But it is still you who lack the self control, not the food.

(you = general "you", not any specific person).

And that's a bunch of BS. If carbs don't negatively effect you, congratulations. But don't speak for the rest of us. Throughout my 30's and 40's, I kept gaining weight on a low-fat/high-carb diet as promoted to me by both a dietitian and the contemporary thinking about what healthy eating was. And I was not a glutton or a sloth. I have years of food diaries showing that I rarely ate more than 1500 calories a day and, many days, much less. I also exercised regularly. I have only been able to lose weight if I also cut my carbs, no matter how much exercise I do.

Another point is that when eating low-fat/high-carb, even though I didn't eat a lot, I was starving all the time. I never felt satisfied, I would start thinking about my next meal before I had the dishes washed from what I just ate, and I was totally and completely miserable over it. This was all odd to me because, before my pregnancies, I had always been thin and a light eater and was never hungry. Now I was fat, a light eater, and always hungry. What the heck?

It wasn't until I cut the carbs down dramatically that I could lose weight (a total of 54# from my highest) and eat light without being hungry. In fact, these days, I often have to remember to eat as I could go all day without eating as long as breakfast is more protein-based. If I slip and have a bowl of cereal, I'm starving in an hour, even if it's something extremely healthy like All-Bran.

My overall calories eaten per day have not necessarily decreased as I have always eaten light even as a child and, unfortunately, believe I do have a damaged metabolism because of it. So I do have to eat less than many other folks here at MFP in order to lose which is a bummer. But the fact remains that I could eat the same calorie level with carbs and gain weight and starve or eat that same calorie level without many carbs and lose weight and not be hungry.

As for your sloth accusations, eating lots of carbs didn't prevent me from exercising but it did make me sleepy and I would often have to nap often after meals, even a small meal of only about 300 calories total. Without the carbs, I never have to nap because of a meal because my blood sugar doesn't spike. Maybe you're observing people who are carb-sensitive and having these same reactions and that is making you think they are sloths? But if they are, it's not intentional or a choice but a by-product of the carbs in their diet. At least based on my own experience.

I just find your statement extremely offensive. It doesn't reflect my reality at all. And I'm sure it doesn't reflect the reality of all overweight people. I'm not saying that it might not apply to some but you can't make an assumption that it applies to all. In fact, what you're saying sounds like ignorance based on a stereotype which is just another form of bigotry.

LOL So sorry. I'm sure I'm 100% wrong and the carbs you ate were at fault and not the person who ate them.

Why are you laughing? She is not the only person that has had this happen to. There are plenty of us here as I am another one.

It is the carbs that is causing the weight gain. I can eat 300 calories of carbs and gain weight versus eating 2,000 calories of fat and protein and lose weight.

Please consider doing some reading and research on current research. Not that research that was done in the 1950's that was VERY WRONG.

The current research concludes that Saturated Fats are very healthy for us and are in no way detrimental to the heart or cardiovascular system and do not cause high cholesterol either.

I will keep referring back to Ancel Keys because he is the "Father of Low Fat" and it was his misinformation that led to this fiasco.

Take time to read my signature from a well known doctor in regards to the low fat era and the science experiment we have all been a part or are currently apart of.

martinah4

They became obese by accumulating fat. His hypothesis is that this fat accumulation is directly affected by the body's insulin production. I think it is slightly more complicated that than as I think there are other hormones which effect this fat accumulation but I believe like him that insulin is the primary one to be concerned with and think that his hypothesis is worth testing.

and did this accumulation of fat happen in a consistent caloric deficit or surplus?

Obviously in a consistent surplus. But why are they constantly eating at surplus? Simple gluttony and sloth?

I say yes! People who don't admit that they got fat because they ate too much and exercised too little are just lying to either themselves and/or everyone else. Whether you say "carbs make me want to eat more" or "fat makes me want to eat more" or "XXXX makes me want to eat more", the fact is that nothing other than your own gluttony and sloth actually made you eat more. Just because you find food tasty and want more does not make the food guilty when you get fat. You ate it. You did it. You are guilty.

If you can lose better by avoiding the food, then absolutely you should do that, whatever the food is. But it is still you who lack the self control, not the food.

(you = general "you", not any specific person).

And that's a bunch of BS. If carbs don't negatively effect you, congratulations. But don't speak for the rest of us. Throughout my 30's and 40's, I kept gaining weight on a low-fat/high-carb diet as promoted to me by both a dietitian and the contemporary thinking about what healthy eating was. And I was not a glutton or a sloth. I have years of food diaries showing that I rarely ate more than 1500 calories a day and, many days, much less. I also exercised regularly. I have only been able to lose weight if I also cut my carbs, no matter how much exercise I do.

Another point is that when eating low-fat/high-carb, even though I didn't eat a lot, I was starving all the time. I never felt satisfied, I would start thinking about my next meal before I had the dishes washed from what I just ate, and I was totally and completely miserable over it. This was all odd to me because, before my pregnancies, I had always been thin and a light eater and was never hungry. Now I was fat, a light eater, and always hungry. What the heck?

It wasn't until I cut the carbs down dramatically that I could lose weight (a total of 54# from my highest) and eat light without being hungry. In fact, these days, I often have to remember to eat as I could go all day without eating as long as breakfast is more protein-based. If I slip and have a bowl of cereal, I'm starving in an hour, even if it's something extremely healthy like All-Bran.

My overall calories eaten per day have not necessarily decreased as I have always eaten light even as a child and, unfortunately, believe I do have a damaged metabolism because of it. So I do have to eat less than many other folks here at MFP in order to lose which is a bummer. But the fact remains that I could eat the same calorie level with carbs and gain weight and starve or eat that same calorie level without many carbs and lose weight and not be hungry.

As for your sloth accusations, eating lots of carbs didn't prevent me from exercising but it did make me sleepy and I would often have to nap often after meals, even a small meal of only about 300 calories total. Without the carbs, I never have to nap because of a meal because my blood sugar doesn't spike. Maybe you're observing people who are carb-sensitive and having these same reactions and that is making you think they are sloths? But if they are, it's not intentional or a choice but a by-product of the carbs in their diet. At least based on my own experience.

I just find your statement extremely offensive. It doesn't reflect my reality at all. And I'm sure it doesn't reflect the reality of all overweight people. I'm not saying that it might not apply to some but you can't make an assumption that it applies to all. In fact, what you're saying sounds like ignorance based on a stereotype which is just another form of bigotry.

LOL So sorry. I'm sure I'm 100% wrong and the carbs you ate were at fault and not the person who ate them.

Why are you laughing? She is not the only person that has had this happen to. There are plenty of us here as I am another one.

It is the carbs that is causing the weight gain. I can eat 300 calories of carbs and gain weight versus eating 2,000 calories of fat and protein and lose weight.

Please consider doing some reading and research on current research. Not that research that was done in the 1950's that was VERY WRONG.

The current research concludes that Saturated Fats are very healthy for us and are in no way detrimental to the heart or cardiovascular system and do not cause high cholesterol either.

I will keep referring back to Ancel Keys because he is the "Father of Low Fat" and it was his misinformation that led to this fiasco.

Take time to read my signature from a well known doctor in regards to the low fat era and the science experiment we have all been a part or are currently apart of.

Somewhat off-topic, but I think I'll share. I was watching a show, 48 hours on TV the other night, when a PSA-type commercial came on. The attractive announcer suggested that everyone eat some protein at breakfast, like an egg and bacon, because it staves off hunger until lunchtime. Woo Hoo, they are slowly getting it! FTW

Steven

I'm going to lock this thread, as there are too many unkind comments about gluttony and sloth to make it worth the time to clean it out, or at least to clean it out in a way that would still make sense to read.

Feel free to pick up the discussion in a new thread, I'd prefer it that this thread not continue to rise to the top of recent posts, with the animosity it currently contains.

Thanks,
Steven
MyFitnessPal Staff