For those that don't eat meat, explain your reasoning

cheshirequeen

i personally am vegan. i dont eat, use, wear anything associated with a living creature. i also dont do honey or certain things like red dye 40 since thats actually ground up beetles, not to be gross.

Actually, red #40 is synthetic, but it is made from petroleum derivatives, which I personally find even more disgusting. There are other dyes like cochineal and carmine that are made from beetles though.

I don't claim any particular label nowdays, though I've been vegetarian, vegan, macrobiotic, and raw veg in the past, and was vegan most of my adult life. I've made different choices for different reasons at different times, but I have two main considerations. One is factory farming and it's impact on the land, the food supply, the lives of animals, biodiversity, etc. The other is my health. I look and feel healthier, more energetic, younger, etc. on a veg diet that is high in fresh fruits and veggies. My skin looks better, my eyes are clearer, my breath smells better, my mood and outlook are more positive. I just flat out feel better.

My main reason for adding occasional chicken, dairy and eggs back into my diet was a long process that began when my son decided he wanted to eat meat. (We had raised him vegetarian up to that point.) At first we made a deal that he could eat meat outside the house and would still eat veg at home, but after a couple of years of that I realized that he was eating the WORST meats possible. So, I found local sources for meat, eggs, and dairy that I was more comfortable with and started making it for him once in while at home. I didn't eat any of it myself for quite a while, but eventually it crept into my diet primarily because of convenience. (Making three separate dishes to accomodate everyone was a PITA!) I've been phasing the chicken back out of my diet now though because I just don't like eating that way and don't feel quite as good healthwise. I will keep occasional eggs and dairy in my diet though. I raise the hens myself and have a couple of local farmers from whom I get fresh milk from pastured cows and raw milk cheese. At this point in time, I'm comfortable with those sources and with the consequences of my choice.

oops. thats what i meant the carmine:)

Wynterbourne

i personally am vegan. i dont eat, use, wear anything associated with a living creature. i also dont do honey or certain things like red dye 40 since thats actually ground up beetles, not to be gross.

Actually, red #40 is synthetic, but it is made from petroleum derivatives, which I personally find even more disgusting. There are other dyes like cochineal and carmine that are made from beetles though.

Correct. Red Dye #40 is petroleum based. As a vegan the one you would want to avoid is Red Dye #4. It is the one made from the Carmine beetle/female cochineal insect not #40.

cheshirequeen

Also, it's nice to have a discussion without anybody, meat eater/vegetarian/vegan/raw foodist, and not being insulting, rude, nasty, or judgemental of anybody elses beliefs, as the way it should be.

jennmoore3

I have been vegetarian for 25 years. Not sure why you want it explained, but will take your word it's just curiousity, rather than looking for an argument. I am fit, healthy, and have one 21 yr old daughter who has experimented a bit with eating fish, and a carnivore son (14). Live and let live.!! Animals, and humans!! I made my decision based on literature/film/speeches including some wonderful books mentioned above -- John Robbins' 'Diet for a New America' changed my life -- after reading it I ate one last hamburger, threw it up it disgusted me so, knowing how the animals suffer and die.

The treatment of animals, environmental issues, hunting, etc. are questions constantly debated and written about by many scholars in philosophy, as well as other subjects. I used to get poked at re. why do you eat yogurt, or should you wear leather, or hey broccoli yelps when you cut it --- Over the years, the general public has become more educated and there is less of that. Also I probably get less of that attitude because I don't preach. Even to my own kids. Being a vegetarian, near-vegan, is just my way of living. Less carbon footprint, better health; it just feels right to me. : )

I commend you for not pushing your kids! My friend has made his kids not eat meat because of religion. They have no choice in the matter. now, they are 9 and 4, and have never even tried one bite. 7th day adventst, they are. Sometimes I am honestly curious about things like the O.P. so I really do not think he is looking for a fight. I love your thought process, and I wish others had that way of thinking in other areas of life as well.

Jenn

Adynata

I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian, and have been for about six years. My own personal reasons are almost entirely moral, but I can also play the health debate game when provoked. To me it came down to a decision between two loves: animals and meat. Yes, I did love the taste of meat, but I disliked the poor treatment in the meat industry more.

However, a surprising amount of it also came down to convenience. It is convenient to live a healthy vegetarian life style in this modern age. Tasty vegetarian food can be easily (and mostly cheaply) acquired with no detriment to a person's health from a lack of eating meat. Unfortunately at the moment, I am not able to go vegan conveniently, but I will consider it when I am in a better position to do so. I don't own any leather apart from shoes - this again comes down to convenience, as I'm a size 9 UK. I don't know what that is in America, but it's a size bigger than pretty much every normal shoe shop sells, so my choice in affordable footwear is pretty slim to begin with. I also don't agree with hunting, unless it's your only available food source.

I do not see vegetarianism as some kind of world changing event. It's much more similar to a personal belief or protest for me. I don't think that by not eating meat I am saving the lives of animals, or making a difference, but I would rather contribute as little as possible towards an industry that contains a large amount of cruelty than go along with adding to it anyway.

SavannaN

For the record... with all the talk of people buying nicely treated animals... Anyone think of going to the 4-H fair and getting a cow or a pig? These animals are raised by kids with very strict guidelines as to exercise, food and shots/lack of them.

I am not any type of vegan, I work with one. That is as close as I ever got. I like reading every opinion on things. I just saw someone post about buying from certain sources, and I thought about mentioning the 4-H kids. The kids get the money from the auction and the animals are very lean from being worked and let to roam and fed well.

Thanks for listening to me..

Jenn

Thanks for posting this, I might start doing that...

joejccva71

Also, it's nice to have a discussion without anybody, meat eater/vegetarian/vegan/raw foodist, and not being insulting, rude, nasty, or judgemental of anybody elses beliefs, as the way it should be.

I'm impressed how the conversation is going. Only received 1 hate mail so far, and 8 good mails.

jennmoore3

Also, it's nice to have a discussion without anybody, meat eater/vegetarian/vegan/raw foodist, and not being insulting, rude, nasty, or judgemental of anybody elses beliefs, as the way it should be.

AMEN!!! That is what I love about this site! I love it!

jennmoore3

For the record... with all the talk of people buying nicely treated animals... Anyone think of going to the 4-H fair and getting a cow or a pig? These animals are raised by kids with very strict guidelines as to exercise, food and shots/lack of them.

I am not any type of vegan, I work with one. That is as close as I ever got. I like reading every opinion on things. I just saw someone post about buying from certain sources, and I thought about mentioning the 4-H kids. The kids get the money from the auction and the animals are very lean from being worked and let to roam and fed well.

Thanks for listening to me..

Jenn

Thanks for posting this, I might start doing that...

You are so welcome. This year I split a cow with 3 other people and I felt good about helping a middle school save money for college! I helped her with 364 bucks for a 1/4. and the one I got was a blue ribbon winner, for something or another. I'm not good on the lingo.

cheshirequeen

Also, it's nice to have a discussion without anybody, meat eater/vegetarian/vegan/raw foodist, and not being insulting, rude, nasty, or judgemental of anybody elses beliefs, as the way it should be.

I'm impressed how the conversation is going. Only received 1 hate mail so far, and 8 good mails.

thats horrible to receive hate mail, no matter what side of the discussion you are on.

it_be_asin

I don't eat meat cause it doesn't taste nice. That's my main reason. Vegetarian food just tastes better.

Do you eat fish at all?

Nope. It tastes even worse.

questionablemethods

Question for some of you:

If you're against eating meat because of how the animals are treated, would you consider hunting? Would you eat meat that a hunter shot? What about farms, individuals who slaughter animals quickly and after treating them well?

To tag onto this question, have you considered the animals killed or driven from their homes to plant a field of wheat/corn/soy compared with the life of a properly raised (grass-fed/pastured) and quickly killed animal?

Artemis_Acorn

ETA: We could also feed a ton of people with the grain and corn used to feed the animals... That one is meaningful to me.

Actually, the corn used to feed the animals is Yellow Dent #2 and is not fit for human consumption, and although it fattens the cows up quickly, it makes the cows sick too - hence all the antibiotics they give them.

I did a year-long stint as a vegetarian because I thought it would make me healthier. It didn't. At the time, I didn't realize that I was insulin resistant and needed to eat lower carb. I suppose low-carb is possible as a vegetarian, but it would be difficult, so I eat meat in moderation - red meat far less frequently than poultry and fish. Very little pork. No mutton, lamb or veal.

jennmoore3

I am off for the night, but I would love for someone to explain in like chart form the difference between all the types of the veg. lifestyle, and what they do not eat. I do not know the difference between them.

Jenn

NLG139

Watch the documentary, Food, Inc. (even just the youtube trailor). Will answer a lot of uncertainty and had a huge impact on my diet.

curvygirl512

I eat meat, just not a lot of it, and no longer do I eat beef, unless that's the absolute only option. I eat chicken and a lot of fish, and I only eat egg whites not the yolks. Apparently I inherited high cholesterol from my family. Changing my diet vastly improved my cholesterol profile. I don't want to have to deal with heart disease, diabetes, and stroke in my future--I've seen how it has debilitated my family, and determined to lead a healthier life.

determinedbutlazy

I became vegan a month ago, not for any kind of moral reason but for the need to be healthier. If I impose stricter limits on my diet, I will eat healthier. I can't order a greasy take-out burger or pizza, no slice of cheese on toast at midnight, because I'm on a vegan diet, not just because "it will make me fat". I eat a large volume of vegetables (I dislike fruit) and salads, which also means I take more time to prepare and plan my meals.
Also, I'm a student and can't afford good quality lean meats, so I tended to gorge on cheap nasty things like sausages and burgers etc. Now I can still get my fix but with vegan options that cost the same and are healthier.
Not eating dairy has made me feel a lot less bloated and sickly, and another thing I've noticed (kind of gross) is that my breath is a lot better since stopping both meat and dairy.
I take special "vegetarian" vitamin suppliments, and haven't really noticed any problems with my energy levels, but I DO need to remember to eat on time every day (my MFP calorie limit is 1400 at the moment) or I can start to feel run down.

lisab42

Bump

victoriashea

I lost a bet.

nkziv

Meat production is HORRIBLE for the environment, and that's why I boycott the industry. Plain and simple. Also for animal rights reasons. Pigs are the worst treated, and they are the most intelligent!! We don't eat our pet dogs, so why pigs? Pigs are smarter than dogs.

Also, think of all the grass/ corn/ soybeans/ whatever other crap we feed livestock that goes into the animals--That is a ton of water, fertilizer, transportation fuel, etc. What a waste! If everyone adopted a vegetarian lifestyle we'd get back half the farmland we use and be able to put it to better uses.

Also, livestock FARTS. A LOT. Methane is a greenhouse gas and generally disgusting. I'd rather not have it. Runoff from livestock waste also goes into streams and rivers and commonly pollutes the water. That *kitten* is extremely toxic. People have died falling into vats of it. It's a dirty business. I'd like to see it cleaned up and made more humane before I pay for it again.

Red meat isn't all that good for you anyway!

joejccva71

I lost a bet.

I'm afraid to ask.

Was it the amount of time before this thread got locked?

victoriashea

Juuust kidding.

When I was eight I was sitting in a group of people talking about coffee. One of them said, "I CAN'T live without my coffee." And the group agreed.
The conversation then bled over into everything they COULDN'T live without. Bacon, cheese, chocolate cake, blueberry muffins, t-bone steak, and the like. I was absolutely disgusted, and I sought out to prove to myself that I could eat simply enough to live off of. No indulgences. I was a raw vegan foodist for 9 months. Pretty much just salads, throughout the entire gestation period of a human being. I quit raw foodism because I was starving. Somewhere around 100 pounds. But it was a 9 month epiphany for me. After that I decided I would eat a sustainable but still extremely strict vegan diet.

For the rest of my life.

cheshirequeen

I became vegan a month ago, not for any kind of moral reason but for the need to be healthier. If I impose stricter limits on my diet, I will eat healthier. I can't order a greasy take-out burger or pizza, no slice of cheese on toast at midnight, because I'm on a vegan diet, not just because "it will make me fat". I eat a large volume of vegetables (I dislike fruit) and salads, which also means I take more time to prepare and plan my meals.
Also, I'm a student and can't afford good quality lean meats, so I tended to gorge on cheap nasty things like sausages and burgers etc. Now I can still get my fix but with vegan options that cost the same and are healthier.
Not eating dairy has made me feel a lot less bloated and sickly, and another thing I've noticed (kind of gross) is that my breath is a lot better since stopping both meat and dairy.
I take special "vegetarian" vitamin suppliments, and haven't really noticed any problems with my energy levels, but I DO need to remember to eat on time every day (my MFP calorie limit is 1400 at the moment) or I can start to feel run down.

its so nice to have somebody else out there that doesnt like fruit and loves veggies. haha.

Rilke

Great thread. Very civil. I am a "flexitarian" -- I don't eat much meat, but when I do eat it I am very careful about the sources. Same for seafood, eggs, and milk.

That leads me to my question for those who don't eat meat because of inhumane treatment and other issues regarding the commercial meat industry. How do you feel about buying meat directly from farmers who raise the animals humanely and treat them very well? This is what we do, and it's pretty cool to drive up to the farm and see the cows, hogs, and chickens so healthy.

UmaB

Actually, our mouths are designed for eating meat. We have canine teeth to grab, incisors for cutting, and bicuspids and molars are designed to masticate. Meat.
[/quote]

Actually that's not true. Dr. Sandra Mclanahan will tell you differently. Our teeth are meant to cut and masticate vegetarian products, they are not as sharp and pointy as true carnivores. Also our intestines are huge! like 10 feet long meant to keep vegetarian fare in their longer to digest them. When we compare our intestinal system to the animal kingdom, it compares to herbivores like cows and elephants as carnivores have a shorter tract to get the meat out faster.

This is the information I received when I lived at an ashram and they only served vegan food. Personally I am trying to get back to that lifestyle. I still eat meat and eggs and drink milk but I realize I felt better in my body, mind and Spirit when I was truly vegan.

victoriashea

Who here has read the Omnivore's Dilemma?! Any ethical omnivores out there?? I love you guys...

anjukins

I'm a veggie (see ALL my above posts, haha) but nevertheless I LOVED 'The Omnivore's Dilemma'. Michael Pollan is a genius. I wish everyone in America was assigned that book in high school. So well written, so witty and articulate and informative...

maura5880

I don't eat any meat, including fish. It's mostly ethical reasons. I'd never push my lifestyle on anyone else (I allow my 8 year old to have meat, she can decide for herself whether or not she wants to be a vegetarian later in life.) However, I do think more people should take time out to educate themselves about the realities of the meat industry, which is pretty gruesome. I'm a huge animal lover & just can't stomach the thought of animals being brutally killed.

I do eat dairy in moderation. I switched from regular cheese to soy cheese, which I love. I still have yogurt & egg whites. I drink soy milk and cow's milk on occasion too.

treehugginpam

Question for some of you:

If you're against eating meat because of how the animals are treated, would you consider hunting? Would you eat meat that a hunter shot? What about farms, individuals who slaughter animals quickly and after treating them well?

Very good question man.

The human race was built for hunting and eating meat, so I'm wondering if the vegans here, if given the opportunity to hunt...would you eat your own kills?

Also speaking hypothetically, if there was only meat left in the world and it was a matter of eating or starvation...what would you do?

(lets remain civil in the conversation)

I'm really curious.

This feels like trolling to me, but in case you're genuinely curious, here's my answer.

I've been veg for almost 15 years now, although in the past year I've added wild caught fish back into my diet. My choice is pretty much just because of the hideous way most animals are treated before they die and how inhumanely most are killed. Because of this, I realized that my reason for excluding fish from my diet just didn't hold up, (unless the fish are factory farm raised), so I added wild caught fish back into my diet for more protein. For the same reason, I eat eggs from cage-free, organic, grain-fed chickens.

So no, I don't have anything against hunters who kill animals for food (hunters who kill animals for fun and let the meat rot have a special place in hell, but that's another story). I wouldn't personally hunt because there is no reason for me to -- I have plenty of other options for food. If I were going to eat meat I'd eat it from a hunter who killed the animal humanely before I'd head out to McDonalds, but I have no desire to eat meat. After 15 years without it, I'm pretty sure the texture would gross me out.

And come on, if meat were the only food left on earth of course I'd eat it rather than starve. What kind of silly question is that? Most of us in the western world live a posh life with numerous food options so meat is not necessary for survival, but if it's apocalyptic America and it's me or the cow I'll be grilling some burgers.


p.s. If you haven't already, watch Food Inc. and read Omnivore's Dilemma or In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan. It might change the way you look at food in general, not just meat.

determinedbutlazy

Its so nice to have somebody else out there that doesnt like fruit and loves veggies. haha.

Fruit is just so much EFFORT. I occasionally put grapes in a freezer bag and freeze them for a quick "sorbet" tasting treat, but anything I have to peel or eat off a core is too much effort.