this is a rant about something positive
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femmerides
Posts: 843 Member
in Chit-Chat
okay, before i get into this, i want you to read the following. i posted this up on my facebook page and thought it was really motivating.
A while back, at the entrance of a gym, there was a picture of a very thin and beautiful woman. The caption was "This summer, do you want to be a mermaid or a whale?"
The story goes, a woman (of clothing size unknown) answered the following way:
"Dear people, whales are always surrounded by friends (dolphins, seals, curious humans), they are sexually active and raise their children with great tenderness.
They entertain like crazy with dolphins and eat lots of prawns. They swim all day and travel to fantastic places like Patagonia, the Barents Sea or the coral reefs of Polynesia.
They sing incredibly well and sometimes even are on cds. They are impressive and dearly loved animals, which everyone defend and admires.
Mermaids do not exist.
But if they existed, they would line up to see a psychologist because of a problem of split personality: woman or fish?
They would have no sex life and could not bear children.
Yes, they would be lovely, but lonely and sad.
And, who wants a girl that smells like fish by his side?
Without a doubt, I'd rather be a whale.
At a time when the media tells us that only thin is beautiful, I prefer to eat ice cream with my kids, to have dinner with my husband, to eat and drink and have fun with my friends.
We women, we gain weight because we accumulate so much wisdom and knowledge that there isn't enough space in our heads, and it spreads all over our bodies.
We are not fat, we are greatly cultivated.
Every time I see my curves in the mirror, I tell myself: "How amazing am I ?! "
(The girl on the picture is French model Tara Lynn
okay. now for my rant. a girl that i know but who obviously doesn't like me responded SUPER negative and then my friends jumped to my defense. if you're bored, read the following:
Lindsay - That's just lazyness remove the cheeseburger from you ****in mouth n get your *kitten* up off the couch n quit being lazy it's gross. There's a difference between "beauty" and just being obese. If you have an illness take care of it don't let your self waste away and be lazy about it. You will always be left behind with that attitude and mentality In life
Kelly - Who the HELL do you think you are!? Curves or no curves, women are BEAUTIFUL. If you are so unhappy with yourself that you have to say those horrible things, the YOU need to seek help. **** OFF YOU HATER. AND TAKE YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ****ING *kitten*. ITS DISGUSTING.
Lindsay - Along with your face!;-) sorry I play to win not to make excuses for my self. And I'm
Sure you have made your judgmental remarks a time or two in your life about a large person don't think your fooling anyone. #winning
Tabitha (that's me!) - lol. lindsay - when you were fat it was because you were lazy and stuffed your face with cheeseburgers (i'm assuming this since this is what you think all fat people do). i have been skinny, i have been fat, i have been in between. during all of those times, i was laziest when i was skinny and most active when i was fat. i've always worked out. period. i've always eaten healthy. my issue was portion control and my lack of knowledge. what kind of illness are you referring to? mental illness? diabetes? food addiction is very real but not every person that is overweight has a food addiction. some are overweight because they don't work out, some are overweight due to health issues, some are overweight because they like it. how quickly you have forgotten how being bigger CAN be beautiful. you were a lot nicer when you were fatter. lol. being skinny and *****y is NOT attractive. also, i'm not sure if you read what was under the picture, but pretty much it states that fat people are nicer people and well loved. some skinny girls are too of course. however, skinny is not alway the way to go. i will ALWAYS choose to be happy, healthy, and overweight than be sad/angry/pessimisstic, healthy/unhealthy, and skinny.
Tabitha - @ Kelly - i love you! :-) and i love the fact that you're skinny and smoking hot and you still love the bigger girls.♥
Ivanna -I REALLY like Kelly and her comment, the other one is hopefully an ignorant comment because not all people are overweight for the laziness and stuffing of faces, for some its genetics or medication. what a horribly mean thing to say, anyone with that sort of negativity in their mind/heart must be very unhappy.
Lindsay - In no way was I directing my comment towards you maybe I should have made that clear. And I apologize for that. I think that add everyone keeps posting is stupid for the reason i stated. This country is ****in fat and it's gross which is why I did something about it. We are lazy *kitten* Americans and it's stupid it makes me so mad. Yes obesity is an illness and a weakness. Like I said play to win strive to be better have some pride in your self. (not you it's a general statement) same could be said for a piece of trailer trash remove the beer from your hand and go get a job. I hate that this country is self destructive with our health or earth.
Tabitha - i agree with you to an extent. i believe that this country is being overrun by unhealthy food and not enough resources with the right information to inform our kids. that's why i am raising my kids with the proper knowledge. also, i know your statement was not directed at me. you know that i've lost weight as well. however, being obese isn't an overnight thing and it's definitely a sore spot for ANYONE who has been overweight. with that said, saying the things you said could really hurt someone who is sensitive to that topic. there is no need to be rude and mean to someone who is overweight. they know they're overweight. believe me.
Kelly - Get a life. If you have time to sit here and talk **** about your so called "friends," I have news for you. YOU are "the biggest loser". No one deserves to have those things said about them, not even you. I have never said a negative word about "large" people, because there is nothing wrong with weighing more than others. If someone is obese and they like the way they look, who are you to say they should be thin? You are an insecure, rude, and malicious person if you feel even the slightest bit comfortable saying these things. I feel sorry for you, I really do.
Lindsay - Oh yea I'm so un happy. Shoot me now... ya right. I have nothing to be un happy about other than I had a bad hair day today n I have a head ach from listening to all this "your ignorant" crap. Y'all don't know who I am. I'll tell you this tho I was a fat lazy *kitten* but not anymore and I'm no skinny ***** either I'm a striving human being who will do what it takes to live the longest and reap all the benefits of having a kicking *kitten* and taking names attitude.
Ivanna - "I'm no skinny ***** either..." I don't know. I've seen you comment on Tabitha's stuff several times and usually you are a bit on the negative side... Just saying you may want to check on your perspectives OR just the delivery if you don't mean to be insensitive.
Lindsay - Maybe just the delivery but I'm pretty straight forward if she doesn't like it she hasn't said anything to me or unfriend me for that matter. Maybe I'll do her a favor n remove my self.
Tabitha - i agree. no one deserves to be put down...ever. it's just not necessary. lindsay - when you were fat, how did it make you feel when people said the things you just said? or were people nice enough to not say those things? either way, saying anything negative is inappropriate. there are much simpler and easier ways to communicate that message. if you genuinely care about the person that is overweight, you have to let it be THEIR decision to lose weight. all the mean comments aren't going to help them get there faster. if anything, it'll send them into a binge. you admit to being fat and lazy. good for you. but not all of us are fat and lazy. i have been constantly exercising for over 4 years. and during those 4 years i have been skinny and fat. when i was "skinnier" i was miserable. all i thought about were calories in vs. calories out. when i was fat i wasn't happy either because it weighed me down. literally. now i'm the smallest i've been in years AND the happiest. i eat what i want, i exercise, i socialize, i drink, etc.
Tabitha - bottom line is that we are ALL entitled to our opinions. some of your past comments have bothered me but they're just your opinion. i know my worth and don't need to rely on your comments to know my value. i'm sure i've said things to you that you just ignored because it didn't matter what my opinion was. it is what it is. it doesn't mean you're a bad person or anything. it just means that you are very blunt and don't have much of a filter. i used to be the same. but i do think of peoples feelings now. anyways, i'm not even sure you're gonna see this because you already deleted me as a friend. lol
about an hour ago ·
Jay - OMFG This post turned something that was supposed to be eye opening into something that is insulting and negative. WOW! Not sure if anyone's momma told them that if they dont have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. The world is made up of different people of all sizes, races, genders, etc. I really think that if everyone was less judgmental of other people and reflected more on themselves, it would be a much happier and more positive place to be. I love women with curves, its sexy and very much more comfortable than bones. And obesity is another story all together, it is an addiction, an illness, a problem, and something that can be not only physically seen but on a great emotional level. Good for those who can overcome it but please don't judge or put down the people who can't. Instead encourage them to get help. Love you girls Tabitha and Ivanna
Taymoor - Excuse me for interrupting but why are the two of you even "friends" ??! Lindsay your a mess if you think putting Tabitha on blast like that is a good way to get ur point across. Im suprised no ones beat ur *kitten* yet for talkin that kinda ****. You need therapy if you think the way you communicate is cool. if you said that **** to me or any of my friends in person id go upside your head faster than you can say the word whale!
Tabitha - hahahahahaha! thanks taymoor! she'd be like, "WHA--! that hurt!"
Sabrina - Uhm I might be off topic, but at my first triathlon I got beat (and by beat I mean beat by a lot) by much much "fatter" girls and trust me, they were waaaay stronger and faster than I am, me, a "skinny" girl.
At my second Tri, the hardest run I have ever done, I was inspired by the biggest guy ever. Yes, 3x my size, and you know what? Again, he finished strong and he never gave up, and I only beat him by a few minutes!! So, yea, yay for "fat" people! They are such inspiration! So to my knowledge, fat doesn't always rime with lazy, gross and whale, it rimes with amazing, determination, courage and strength!
Tabitha - definitely. i can out run a lot of people half my size. lol. i do more push ups than most, i have amazingly strong thighs that can lift extraordinary amounts of weight (i can piggy back geoff), and I have the highest praise from my doctors when they take my blood pressure or any other test for that matter. i am definitely healthy. :-)
lol. okay. is it just me or is she malicious???? defriended STAT.
*end rant*
A while back, at the entrance of a gym, there was a picture of a very thin and beautiful woman. The caption was "This summer, do you want to be a mermaid or a whale?"
The story goes, a woman (of clothing size unknown) answered the following way:
"Dear people, whales are always surrounded by friends (dolphins, seals, curious humans), they are sexually active and raise their children with great tenderness.
They entertain like crazy with dolphins and eat lots of prawns. They swim all day and travel to fantastic places like Patagonia, the Barents Sea or the coral reefs of Polynesia.
They sing incredibly well and sometimes even are on cds. They are impressive and dearly loved animals, which everyone defend and admires.
Mermaids do not exist.
But if they existed, they would line up to see a psychologist because of a problem of split personality: woman or fish?
They would have no sex life and could not bear children.
Yes, they would be lovely, but lonely and sad.
And, who wants a girl that smells like fish by his side?
Without a doubt, I'd rather be a whale.
At a time when the media tells us that only thin is beautiful, I prefer to eat ice cream with my kids, to have dinner with my husband, to eat and drink and have fun with my friends.
We women, we gain weight because we accumulate so much wisdom and knowledge that there isn't enough space in our heads, and it spreads all over our bodies.
We are not fat, we are greatly cultivated.
Every time I see my curves in the mirror, I tell myself: "How amazing am I ?! "
(The girl on the picture is French model Tara Lynn
okay. now for my rant. a girl that i know but who obviously doesn't like me responded SUPER negative and then my friends jumped to my defense. if you're bored, read the following:
Lindsay - That's just lazyness remove the cheeseburger from you ****in mouth n get your *kitten* up off the couch n quit being lazy it's gross. There's a difference between "beauty" and just being obese. If you have an illness take care of it don't let your self waste away and be lazy about it. You will always be left behind with that attitude and mentality In life
Kelly - Who the HELL do you think you are!? Curves or no curves, women are BEAUTIFUL. If you are so unhappy with yourself that you have to say those horrible things, the YOU need to seek help. **** OFF YOU HATER. AND TAKE YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ****ING *kitten*. ITS DISGUSTING.
Lindsay - Along with your face!;-) sorry I play to win not to make excuses for my self. And I'm
Sure you have made your judgmental remarks a time or two in your life about a large person don't think your fooling anyone. #winning
Tabitha (that's me!) - lol. lindsay - when you were fat it was because you were lazy and stuffed your face with cheeseburgers (i'm assuming this since this is what you think all fat people do). i have been skinny, i have been fat, i have been in between. during all of those times, i was laziest when i was skinny and most active when i was fat. i've always worked out. period. i've always eaten healthy. my issue was portion control and my lack of knowledge. what kind of illness are you referring to? mental illness? diabetes? food addiction is very real but not every person that is overweight has a food addiction. some are overweight because they don't work out, some are overweight due to health issues, some are overweight because they like it. how quickly you have forgotten how being bigger CAN be beautiful. you were a lot nicer when you were fatter. lol. being skinny and *****y is NOT attractive. also, i'm not sure if you read what was under the picture, but pretty much it states that fat people are nicer people and well loved. some skinny girls are too of course. however, skinny is not alway the way to go. i will ALWAYS choose to be happy, healthy, and overweight than be sad/angry/pessimisstic, healthy/unhealthy, and skinny.
Tabitha - @ Kelly - i love you! :-) and i love the fact that you're skinny and smoking hot and you still love the bigger girls.♥
Ivanna -I REALLY like Kelly and her comment, the other one is hopefully an ignorant comment because not all people are overweight for the laziness and stuffing of faces, for some its genetics or medication. what a horribly mean thing to say, anyone with that sort of negativity in their mind/heart must be very unhappy.
Lindsay - In no way was I directing my comment towards you maybe I should have made that clear. And I apologize for that. I think that add everyone keeps posting is stupid for the reason i stated. This country is ****in fat and it's gross which is why I did something about it. We are lazy *kitten* Americans and it's stupid it makes me so mad. Yes obesity is an illness and a weakness. Like I said play to win strive to be better have some pride in your self. (not you it's a general statement) same could be said for a piece of trailer trash remove the beer from your hand and go get a job. I hate that this country is self destructive with our health or earth.
Tabitha - i agree with you to an extent. i believe that this country is being overrun by unhealthy food and not enough resources with the right information to inform our kids. that's why i am raising my kids with the proper knowledge. also, i know your statement was not directed at me. you know that i've lost weight as well. however, being obese isn't an overnight thing and it's definitely a sore spot for ANYONE who has been overweight. with that said, saying the things you said could really hurt someone who is sensitive to that topic. there is no need to be rude and mean to someone who is overweight. they know they're overweight. believe me.
Kelly - Get a life. If you have time to sit here and talk **** about your so called "friends," I have news for you. YOU are "the biggest loser". No one deserves to have those things said about them, not even you. I have never said a negative word about "large" people, because there is nothing wrong with weighing more than others. If someone is obese and they like the way they look, who are you to say they should be thin? You are an insecure, rude, and malicious person if you feel even the slightest bit comfortable saying these things. I feel sorry for you, I really do.
Lindsay - Oh yea I'm so un happy. Shoot me now... ya right. I have nothing to be un happy about other than I had a bad hair day today n I have a head ach from listening to all this "your ignorant" crap. Y'all don't know who I am. I'll tell you this tho I was a fat lazy *kitten* but not anymore and I'm no skinny ***** either I'm a striving human being who will do what it takes to live the longest and reap all the benefits of having a kicking *kitten* and taking names attitude.
Ivanna - "I'm no skinny ***** either..." I don't know. I've seen you comment on Tabitha's stuff several times and usually you are a bit on the negative side... Just saying you may want to check on your perspectives OR just the delivery if you don't mean to be insensitive.
Lindsay - Maybe just the delivery but I'm pretty straight forward if she doesn't like it she hasn't said anything to me or unfriend me for that matter. Maybe I'll do her a favor n remove my self.
Tabitha - i agree. no one deserves to be put down...ever. it's just not necessary. lindsay - when you were fat, how did it make you feel when people said the things you just said? or were people nice enough to not say those things? either way, saying anything negative is inappropriate. there are much simpler and easier ways to communicate that message. if you genuinely care about the person that is overweight, you have to let it be THEIR decision to lose weight. all the mean comments aren't going to help them get there faster. if anything, it'll send them into a binge. you admit to being fat and lazy. good for you. but not all of us are fat and lazy. i have been constantly exercising for over 4 years. and during those 4 years i have been skinny and fat. when i was "skinnier" i was miserable. all i thought about were calories in vs. calories out. when i was fat i wasn't happy either because it weighed me down. literally. now i'm the smallest i've been in years AND the happiest. i eat what i want, i exercise, i socialize, i drink, etc.
Tabitha - bottom line is that we are ALL entitled to our opinions. some of your past comments have bothered me but they're just your opinion. i know my worth and don't need to rely on your comments to know my value. i'm sure i've said things to you that you just ignored because it didn't matter what my opinion was. it is what it is. it doesn't mean you're a bad person or anything. it just means that you are very blunt and don't have much of a filter. i used to be the same. but i do think of peoples feelings now. anyways, i'm not even sure you're gonna see this because you already deleted me as a friend. lol
about an hour ago ·
Jay - OMFG This post turned something that was supposed to be eye opening into something that is insulting and negative. WOW! Not sure if anyone's momma told them that if they dont have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. The world is made up of different people of all sizes, races, genders, etc. I really think that if everyone was less judgmental of other people and reflected more on themselves, it would be a much happier and more positive place to be. I love women with curves, its sexy and very much more comfortable than bones. And obesity is another story all together, it is an addiction, an illness, a problem, and something that can be not only physically seen but on a great emotional level. Good for those who can overcome it but please don't judge or put down the people who can't. Instead encourage them to get help. Love you girls Tabitha and Ivanna
Taymoor - Excuse me for interrupting but why are the two of you even "friends" ??! Lindsay your a mess if you think putting Tabitha on blast like that is a good way to get ur point across. Im suprised no ones beat ur *kitten* yet for talkin that kinda ****. You need therapy if you think the way you communicate is cool. if you said that **** to me or any of my friends in person id go upside your head faster than you can say the word whale!
Tabitha - hahahahahaha! thanks taymoor! she'd be like, "WHA--! that hurt!"
Sabrina - Uhm I might be off topic, but at my first triathlon I got beat (and by beat I mean beat by a lot) by much much "fatter" girls and trust me, they were waaaay stronger and faster than I am, me, a "skinny" girl.
At my second Tri, the hardest run I have ever done, I was inspired by the biggest guy ever. Yes, 3x my size, and you know what? Again, he finished strong and he never gave up, and I only beat him by a few minutes!! So, yea, yay for "fat" people! They are such inspiration! So to my knowledge, fat doesn't always rime with lazy, gross and whale, it rimes with amazing, determination, courage and strength!
Tabitha - definitely. i can out run a lot of people half my size. lol. i do more push ups than most, i have amazingly strong thighs that can lift extraordinary amounts of weight (i can piggy back geoff), and I have the highest praise from my doctors when they take my blood pressure or any other test for that matter. i am definitely healthy. :-)
lol. okay. is it just me or is she malicious???? defriended STAT.
*end rant*
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Replies
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:huh:0
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Long read. Cool story. Good night. Thanks for sharing!0
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Very nice post. . Thank you so much for sharing!
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oh my god... this is annoying...0
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I loved it
I've seen the model all over my Facebook, and I think she's gorgeous!0 -
oh my god... this is annoying...
lol. i thought i warned you. it's a rant. that means it most definitely involves some sort of drama. you didn't have to read it. but thanks for stopping by anyways. :-)0 -
I loved it
I've seen the model all over my Facebook, and I think she's gorgeous!
she definitely is! and i don't think she's even that big. her measurements are very close to mine. she has bigger hips but everything else is pretty spot on. and i think i look amazing. :-)0 -
oh my god... this is annoying...
lol. i thought i warned you. it's a rant. that means it most definitely involves some sort of drama. you didn't have to read it. but thanks for stopping by anyways. :-)
I think its great that people realize that womens' beauty isn't reflected in how low they can get the number on the scale but I'm quite confused because it appears as though the model in the picture is at an unhealthy weight. I don't know her measurements but from what I can see she is over weight.0 -
Agreed!!
I have seen this posts on a number of friends wall and the controversy it's caused... WOW!
All comments head in generally the same direction those from your friends have lol.
I'm a firm believer in the fact that you're overweight doesn't mean you're lazy or unhealthy.
For example, my lifelong friend - same age, same height. She weighs around 53kg whereas I weigh around 83kg - 30kgs heavier! Yet I could run rings around her. I am so much fitter than her and almost guaranteed healthier too. I have had full workups at the doctors/hospitals before and nothing has ever been on the high or low side. All normal for me. Yet she will eat KFC like it's going out of fashion. That can't be doing her health any good.
"Skinny" may look nicer to one person. "Curvy" may look nicer to another person. Everyone is different, yet unfortunately EVERYONE in some way or another determines a persons habits on face value alone. Fat doesn't mean lazy. Skinny doesn't mean healthy.
xx
Edit: Should also add - yes I am on MFP to help in my weight loss journey. My weight loss journey is for me. I don't like the way I look, but that doesn't mean I'm unhealthy. Medically I may be placed in the higher risk categories for certain illnesses, but like I stated above - I'm healthy by all medical tests.0 -
I'd hold out for the mermaid.0
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Seems biased against slim people. And bitter.0
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Seems biased against slim people. And bitter.
THANK YOU0 -
Seems biased against slim people. And bitter.
THANK YOU
thought so too..0 -
She is stunning, and her confidence is downright sexy!
She's the epitome of beauty based on a lot of classical art. But people have their own opinions of what makes a body beautiful, and it is okay if it is different from mine.
I love that the "popular" viewpoint is finally evolving from scrawny to curvy again. Healthy is beautiful, no matter what the size.0 -
Medically I may be placed in the higher risk categories for certain illnesses, but like I stated above - I'm healthy by all medical tests.
The more fat you have, the more complications in the operating room if you ever require any type or emergency surgery as well.
You can't just blow off all the negatives by just saying 'big is beautiful'....when really there are no positives to being obese..other then people justifying themselves being larger.
Body weight and relative health IS measureable, and the problems that come up with being overweight are real. There are studies, public documents and guidelines available that go heavily into detail about what 'healthy' actually is.
Thinking them away doesnt' make you healthier. Thinking them away doesnt' make you thinner, or run faster. Saying you're beautiful doesn't get rid of any of the problems either. Regardless of wether you're Paris Hilton, or Oscar the Grouch.
Smoking is sexy to some.
It also kills others.
That's why Oscar ^ quit.
If you're happy living with increased chances of:
•Coronary heart disease
•Type 2 diabetes
•Cancers (endometrial, breast, and colon)
•Hypertension (high blood pressure)
•Dyslipidemia (for example, high total cholesterol or high levels of triglycerides)
•Stroke
•Liver and Gallbladder disease
•Sleep apnea and respiratory problems
•Osteoarthritis (a degeneration of cartilage and its underlying bone within a joint)
•Gynecological problems (abnormal menses, infertility)
then more power to you.
Realize there's a better chance of your family and children having increased risk of all that if they follow in your footsteps, do as you do, or eat and act the way you do..
That's all my opinion...but what do I know, I'm a mermaid too
..so what I said above doesn't even exist.0 -
What I say is, who even gives a rat's behind if the model IS overweight? I hardly see why that's annoying or whatever. What, it annoys you because she's overweight and that beautiful? Your "friend" and other people should really get over their jealousy 0
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I've known lots of girls that smelled like fish, is that bad?0
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^ ^Seems biased against slim people. And bitter.
THANK YOU
thought so too..0 -
Medically I may be placed in the higher risk categories for certain illnesses, but like I stated above - I'm healthy by all medical tests.
The more fat you have, the more complications in the operating room if you ever require any type or emergency surgery as well.
You can't just blow off all the negatives by just saying 'big is beautiful'....when really there are no positives to being obese..other then people justifying themselves being larger.
Body weight and relative health IS measureable, and the problems that come up with being overweight are real. There are studies, public documents and guidelines available that go heavily into detail about what 'healthy' actually is.
Thinking them away doesnt' make you healthier. Thinking them away doesnt' make you thinner, or run faster. Saying you're beautiful doesn't get rid of any of the problems either. Regardless of wether you're Paris Hilton, or Oscar the Grouch.
Smoking is sexy to some.
It also kills others.
That's why Oscar ^ quit.
If you're happy living with increased chances of:
•Coronary heart disease
•Type 2 diabetes
•Cancers (endometrial, breast, and colon)
•Hypertension (high blood pressure)
•Dyslipidemia (for example, high total cholesterol or high levels of triglycerides)
•Stroke
•Liver and Gallbladder disease
•Sleep apnea and respiratory problems
•Osteoarthritis (a degeneration of cartilage and its underlying bone within a joint)
•Gynecological problems (abnormal menses, infertility)
then more power to you.
Realize there's a better chance of your family and children having increased risk of all that if they follow in your footsteps, do as you do, or eat and act the way you do..
That's all my opinion...but what do I know, I'm a mermaid too
..so what I said above doesn't even exist.
THANK YOU x 1,000,0000 -
"So, yea, yay for "fat" people! They are such inspiration! So to my knowledge, fat doesn't always rime with lazy, gross and whale, it rimes with amazing, determination, courage and strength!" <
This excerpt from your post basically sums up your point, unless I misinterpreted your meaning. Unhealthiness shouldn't be lauded. No wonder so many Americans are overweight; due to wrong attitudes and excuses for their attitudes. Health is of utmost importance. Overweight is as unhealthy as being underweight.0
This discussion has been closed.
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