Transforming fat to muscle

liftingbro

OK, here's the deal and hopefully this will clear up the mass amounts of incorrect info in this thread:

#1- You can lift more with same amount of muscle, it's called training and there are two factors in that:

A) Improving techinique can increase lift numbers without increasing mucle mass. Most people will naturally improve form as they learn to lift.

There are fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers. Fast twitch muscle fibers are responsible for sudden powerful movements like lifting weights, sprinting...ect. Slow twitch muscle are used in repeated endurance motions with relatively light load on the muscle like long distance running, walking, normal movements throughout the day. When large enough load is placed on the muscle (~60% of the max you can lift) you begin to recruit fast twitch muscle fibers. The more fast twitch muscle fibers you recruit, the more you can lift. With good training your body adapts and learns to adapt fast twitch muscle fibers more efficiently, thus increasing lifting ability without increased muscle mass. Of course, the more muscle you have, the more fast twitch fibers you will have but gains in lifting are both increased muscle mass and more efficient recruitment of fast twitch muscle fibers. In fact big increases in lifting abilty can be had without mass gains.

#2- You can't gain muscle mass and increase lifts on a calorie deficit.

While this is generally true of people that are conditioned to weight lifting and are fairly lean already, it's not completely true of overweight people that are just starting to lift. There is such a thing as newbie gains. However, they are not as significant as people think. As noted above you will increase lifts without gaining muscle mass due to becoming more efficient at recruiting fast twitch muscle fibers and this happens at a higher rate for those that are untrained (inexperience in lifting). So, judging whether or not you gained muscle mass or not by looking at your lifting stats are not very valid, particularly for a newbie lifter. The fact is that new lifters will gain a small amount of muscle mass while on a calorie deficit under proper conditions.

A) You will likely need to have a high % of BF. The more fat you have the more muscle sparing the conditions are.
You will need to lift and lift heavy.
C) You will need to take in plenty of protein (1-1.5g per pound)

Under these conditions you will probably experience large increases in lifting stats and a small increase in muscle mass (perhaps 2 pounds in the first couple months) while in a deficit.

The "waking up muscle" mostly refers to the body learning to recruit fast twitch muscle fibers more efficiently. A similar term "muscle memory" is normally used for those that once did lift frequently but had a long layoff and go back to lifting. In the case of "Muscle memory" the body already efficiently recruits FT muscle fibers so they gain strength back at a higher rate.

ahavoc

It's my understanding that when you Strength train, you actually tear muscle fibers in your muscle, Then, when you rest, your body rebuilds the muscle fibers only stronger. So strength training stimulates muscle fibers. Losing muscle under calorie restriction won't be an issue as long as you are doing resistance training at least 3 times per week. Your body has mechanisms in place to preserve muscle mass as long as it believes there is need for that muscle. If you are eating a low calorie diet and not training, there is a chance that you will lose muscle and that's why strength training is recommended.

And remember, there's a difference between weight lifting and strength training. Weight lifting builds muscle, and body builders have their own diet regimen for getting their muscle bulk happening. Strength training you are on lower weights and you do your reps, although you should work towards failure, so you do need to challenge yourself, but do it slowly. If 5 lb weights are easy, move to 8 or 10, and push yourself a bit. More muscle fibers = increased fiber size, and burns more calories.

So, cardio basically burns the calories while you are doing it, and helps burn fat and increase endurance and flexibility and is great for the cardio/vascular system. Strength training increases muscle fiber size. Once muscle fibers enlarge, they consume more energy - which boosts our metabolisms and burns more calories.

Win/win.

luvgreen25

what does "bump" mean?

I was wondering this same thing.

ahavoc

what does "bump" mean?

I was wondering this same thing.

It bumps the topic up to the top of the list. Get it? "bump"

Sidesteal

OK, here's the deal and hopefully this will clear up the mass amounts of incorrect info in this thread:

#1- You can lift more with same amount of muscle, it's called training and there are two factors in that:

A) Improving techinique can increase lift numbers without increasing mucle mass. Most people will naturally improve form as they learn to lift.

There are fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers. Fast twitch muscle fibers are responsible for sudden powerful movements like lifting weights, sprinting...ect. Slow twitch muscle are used in repeated endurance motions with relatively light load on the muscle like long distance running, walking, normal movements throughout the day. When large enough load is placed on the muscle (~60% of the max you can lift) you begin to recruit fast twitch muscle fibers. The more fast twitch muscle fibers you recruit, the more you can lift. With good training your body adapts and learns to adapt fast twitch muscle fibers more efficiently, thus increasing lifting ability without increased muscle mass. Of course, the more muscle you have, the more fast twitch fibers you will have but gains in lifting are both increased muscle mass and more efficient recruitment of fast twitch muscle fibers. In fact big increases in lifting abilty can be had without mass gains.

#2- You can't gain muscle mass and increase lifts on a calorie deficit.

While this is generally true of people that are conditioned to weight lifting and are fairly lean already, it's not completely true of overweight people that are just starting to lift. There is such a thing as newbie gains. However, they are not as significant as people think. As noted above you will increase lifts without gaining muscle mass due to becoming more efficient at recruiting fast twitch muscle fibers and this happens at a higher rate for those that are untrained (inexperience in lifting). So, judging whether or not you gained muscle mass or not by looking at your lifting stats are not very valid, particularly for a newbie lifter. The fact is that new lifters will gain a small amount of muscle mass while on a calorie deficit under proper conditions.

A) You will likely need to have a high % of BF. The more fat you have the more muscle sparing the conditions are.
You will need to lift and lift heavy.
C) You will need to take in plenty of protein (1-1.5g per pound)

Under these conditions you will probably experience large increases in lifting stats and a small increase in muscle mass (perhaps 2 pounds in the first couple months) while in a deficit.

The "waking up muscle" mostly refers to the body learning to recruit fast twitch muscle fibers more efficiently. A similar term "muscle memory" is normally used for those that once did lift frequently but had a long layoff and go back to lifting. In the case of "Muscle memory" the body already efficiently recruits FT muscle fibers so they gain strength back at a higher rate.

Great post.

deathstarclock

Yeah I just realized we are not discussing what I thought we were discussing :drinker:

jarrettd

"bump" is a way of bookmarking a thread so you can find it under the "My Topics" tab later.

Jesung

Not sure what 'waking up' your muscles means but weight training on a calorie deficits have the following advantages
1. You continue to make strength gains by being able to recruit more muscle fibers at once
2. You preserve your muscle mass while losing fat

when you're in maintenance, your overall body weight will not change but you may see some changes in body composition. i.e. lose fat and gain muscle

when you're in a surplus, weight training ensures that your body is building muscle with those extra calories, not storing it as fat.

vim_n_vigor

So, if I were a person that chose to stay on a caloric deficit, losing muscle mass and fat as part of that loss, is it more difficult then to build that muscle back up (I am assuming on some level that a caloric surplus would be needed because of the muscle loss)?

How much of a muscle loss can we assume for an obese person losing weight?

Again - I am all for weight loss. I am just trying to understand here.

tigersword

I'm going to use my "ropes and box" example. You have 4 ropes attached to a pulley and a heavy box. You hook one of the four ropes to the box and try and lift it, but can't. Then you hook the other 3 ropes to the box and lift it successfully. Both times you had the same amount of rope (so the rope didn't get heavier or bigger) but the second time you used all the ropes effectively and succeeded in lifting the box.

This is what happens when you train muscles. Think of them as bands of ropes. When a muscle is untrained, only some of the ropes are actually working, the rest are just there. As you strength train, you use more of the fibers you already have and get more efficient, and stronger. That's how you can get stronger without gaining muscle.

tigersword

So, if I were a person that chose to stay on a caloric deficit, losing muscle mass and fat as part of that loss, is it more difficult then to build that muscle back up (I am assuming on some level that a caloric surplus would be needed because of the muscle loss)?

How much of a muscle loss can we assume for an obese person losing weight?

Again - I am all for weight loss. I am just trying to understand here.

Adding muscle mass is incredibly difficult. It's much easier to maintain the muscle you have. It can take several weeks of heavy lifting and eating at a caloric surplus just to add one pound of muscle for a man. For a woman it could take several months to a year, if not longer.

ninerbuff

OK, hopefully that caught the right people's attention. I know you don't turn fat into muscle! But, I do have a question about muscle.

I do not at all dispute the benefits of weight training, and I include it in my weekly activity. I am confused about one thing though, and it may just be a symantics thing.

I see many posts saying that you can't bulk up or gain muscle when in a caloric deficit, but you can 'wake up' existing muscle.
What does this mean? If I am in a caloric deficit, and weight training, what does that do exactly? What 'benefits' are there for weight training while in a deficit?

Again, I do not dispute the need for weight training. I am just trying to understand what it does while in a deficit vs. maintenance calories vs. surplus of calories.

Muscle that's unconditioned and "dormant" is flabby and soft. When you start a strength training program, you start to condition that muscle and "harden" it up by filling it up with glycogen and water. It also "awakens" the mitochondria in the cells to perform more work.

Goal_Seeker_1988

bump

liftingbro

So, if I were a person that chose to stay on a caloric deficit, losing muscle mass and fat as part of that loss, is it more difficult then to build that muscle back up (I am assuming on some level that a caloric surplus would be needed because of the muscle loss)?

How much of a muscle loss can we assume for an obese person losing weight?

Again - I am all for weight loss. I am just trying to understand here.

With good nutrition you can minimize muscle loss. The more BF you have the less problems you'll have losing muscle. The leaner you get the more of an issue it becomes. Building muscle becomes more difficult as you become more conditioned to lifting weights. So where you might see fast gains early after you've been lifting for a while the gains will slow down.