Cardio after weights to burn fat.

kneeki

This is a great article explaining just how to maximize your results: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/james4.htm

TL;DR?
Don't do cardo the same day you lift. A three day split with the rest of the week filled in with Cardio is likely the /best/ option. I however, do 20 minutes of Cardio every day after I lift. *shrug*

Timdog57

This and also its optimal to organize a routine based on energy source usage. Since weightlifting will use the phosphagen system (force production at it's greatest) and cardio generally uses aerobic metabolism (prolonged work), you'd want to structure your workout so that you use your phosphagen system first then all the way down to aerobic metabolism.

^^Best answer^^

FYI: full depletion is not necessary. Weight trianing will help mobilize FFA's and steady-state cardio will help oxidize them.

Really??? What are FFA's (fatty acids?)? I had this understanding (like the OP I think) that you needed to deplete your glycogen stores to get into super-fat-burn mode, but you're saying mobilizing the FFA's is all you need to do? So in turn, a HIIT session lasting 10 or so minutes would also serve to mobalize the FFA's (though not deplete the glycogen stores), and kick the body into fat burning mode. So, cardio after HITT would work the same as cardio after strength training?

cominupmilhouse

I'm not exactly sure but the guy who helps with my training says on days I don't lift weights before cardio I need to do an extra 30 cardio to burn all the sugar in my body before I'll burn the fat... But if I lift weights for 15-20minutes then 30 of cardio is plenty... Lifting weights can increase your heart rate similiarly to cardio.

Wow this one has really helped me out a lot. I'm definitely gonna change the way I do cardio now, good to know thanks!

Jeff92se

I've noticed that you have 0 lbs lost. So you are newish here.

IMHO here. It's 10x more important that do actually do lift and cardio in whatever order at this stage.

You won't be advanced enough in either area at this point to notice any significant difference.

Just do it and worry about the order later. I've done it both ways.

I have been on here 2 months and only weigh every 4 to 6 weeks so please don't assume by my ticker that I'm new to exercise. And my focus is not on the scales hence it is important to me to get things right so I can achieve my goals.

Even two months is still a beginner IMHO. I sort of have to assume since you logs aren't public.

So how are you exercising right now? List up your routine.

Considering you're only 2 months into this, I'll stand by the logic that doing it in either order is more important at this stage

So, 4 pounds lost makes you some kind of expert??? What the heck kind of answer is this? If the question is over your head and you don't know the answer, simply don't answer. Don't attack someone else for asking a very reasonable question just because you have no clue what they're talking about.

I've been here for about 3 weeks. Lost 4lbs. Yes, I'm new here also. I never said I was an expert and it wasn't an attack. The post might be short and to the point but look at the advice and let me know if it's right or wrong. Then state why.

I've been working out for years. And lost 10lbs PRIOR to joining the site. I joined here because my progress has stopped and I needed a way to track calories. I've learned alot here from the posts.

So again, let me know if someone at her stage should really be worrying about the order vs actually just doing it and see how it works out. I've done it both ways. I value the lifting so I do it first. If I valued the cardio more, I'd do that first. Being so estoteric at this stage (or even where I'm at) seems a LITTLE like nitpicking to me. That is to me, as in my opinion.

So if the question is "over my head", let me know how my answer is an indication of that. Thanks

SHBoss1673

IF you want to do both in the same session, yes, weight train before doing cardio.

BUT.

Be aware that weight training and cardio elicit different hormonal responses, and those responses compete for resources.

Odds are you won't completely deplete your glycogen resources unless you're doing some pretty heavy weight training to failure, it takes time for the liver to resupply the ready glycogen at the muscles sites, all the while it will be furiously trying to rebuild those liver glycogen stores from existing carbohydrate and protein stores in the body. FFA's while being a source of energy for many voluntary muscle types, are not utilized as fast as glycogen, and they don't produce as much energy per gram as does glycogen (even though their potential energy is higher, the process to break them down is energetically more expensive, thus the total usable energy is actually lower). Add to that the fact that weight training (anaerobic exercise in general) usually elicits an IGF-2, HGH, and Testosterone response which sucks energy away from muscles that would otherwise use it for the cardio you will do after, and that cardio (moderate stress actually) produces cortisol which is an insulin (and thus blood sugar) inhibitor. This all means that these 2 primary hormones are competing with each other. In other words, the best idea is to do one or the other, give your body time to recover (a minimum of a few hours) and drop their hormone levels back to normal, and then do the other activity, or better yet, do one per day, so you can be sure you have given your body the rest it needs.

don't forget about the other intangibles that doing 2 types of exercise in a day can produce, I.E. fatigue, high stress, and a far higher possibility of injury because of muscle weakness. The body will try to overcompensate when a muscle becomes fatigued, using stabilizer muscles to compensate for a weak protagonist muscle, this is always a bad idea as stabilizers are not nearly as strong.

blazergrad

Bump ... interesting topic.

Sidesteal

So if the question is "over my head", let me know how my answer is an indication of that. Thanks

It seemed clear to me that OP wanted to better understand the science behind glycogen depletion and how it relates to the body's determination of energy source. Your answer basically sidestepped it.

That being said, I agree with you in that it's not going to matter a ton, but that doesn't help the OP or answer her question. I am also interested in the answer and I'm currently reading about it over on Lyle's site (trying to find conculsive literature).

Jeff92se

So if the question is "over my head", let me know how my answer is an indication of that. Thanks

It seemed clear to me that OP wanted to better understand the science behind glycogen depletion and how it relates to the body's determination of energy source. Your answer basically sidestepped it.

That being said, I agree with you in that it's not going to matter a ton, but that doesn't help the OP or answer her question. I am also interested in the answer and I'm currently reading about it over on Lyle's site (trying to find conculsive literature).

Fair enough.

emmab0902

I've noticed that you have 0 lbs lost. So you are newish here.

IMHO here. It's 10x more important that do actually do lift and cardio in whatever order at this stage.

You won't be advanced enough in either area at this point to notice any significant difference.

Just do it and worry about the order later. I've done it both ways.

I have been on here 2 months and only weigh every 4 to 6 weeks so please don't assume by my ticker that I'm new to exercise. And my focus is not on the scales hence it is important to me to get things right so I can achieve my goals.

Even two months is still a beginner IMHO. I sort of have to assume since you logs aren't public.

So how are you exercising right now? List up your routine.

Considering you're only 2 months into this, I'll stand by the logic that doing it in either order is more important at this stage

So, 4 pounds lost makes you some kind of expert??? What the heck kind of answer is this? If the question is over your head and you don't know the answer, simply don't answer. Don't attack someone else for asking a very reasonable question just because you have no clue what they're talking about.

I've been here for about 3 weeks. Lost 4lbs. Yes, I'm new here also. I never said I was an expert and it wasn't an attack. The post might be short and to the point but look at the advice and let me know if it's right or wrong. Then state why.

I've been working out for years. And lost 10lbs PRIOR to joining the site. I joined here because my progress has stopped and I needed a way to track calories. I've learned alot here from the posts.

So again, let me know if someone at her stage should really be worrying about the order vs actually just doing it and see how it works out. I've done it both ways. I value the lifting so I do it first. If I valued the cardio more, I'd do that first. Being so estoteric at this stage (or even where I'm at) seems a LITTLE like nitpicking to me. That is to me, as in my opinion.

So if the question is "over my head", let me know how my answer is an indication of that. Thanks

How can you judge what "stage" I am at merely by either how much weight I have lost or how long I have been on MFP?? Being on here 60 odd days doesn't mean I only started working out that many days ago.

I am happy to list my workout programme but it isn't relevant to the original question.

Goal_Seeker_1988

bump

KettyLan

According to my former trainer, one should warm up with cardio first, and then do weight lifting...the science behind this according to him is that if you do weight lifting first and then cardio, you would lose muscle mass...

Jeff92se

I've noticed that you have 0 lbs lost. So you are newish here.

IMHO here. It's 10x more important that do actually do lift and cardio in whatever order at this stage.

You won't be advanced enough in either area at this point to notice any significant difference.

Just do it and worry about the order later. I've done it both ways.

I have been on here 2 months and only weigh every 4 to 6 weeks so please don't assume by my ticker that I'm new to exercise. And my focus is not on the scales hence it is important to me to get things right so I can achieve my goals.

Even two months is still a beginner IMHO. I sort of have to assume since you logs aren't public.

So how are you exercising right now? List up your routine.

Considering you're only 2 months into this, I'll stand by the logic that doing it in either order is more important at this stage

So, 4 pounds lost makes you some kind of expert??? What the heck kind of answer is this? If the question is over your head and you don't know the answer, simply don't answer. Don't attack someone else for asking a very reasonable question just because you have no clue what they're talking about.

I've been here for about 3 weeks. Lost 4lbs. Yes, I'm new here also. I never said I was an expert and it wasn't an attack. The post might be short and to the point but look at the advice and let me know if it's right or wrong. Then state why.

I've been working out for years. And lost 10lbs PRIOR to joining the site. I joined here because my progress has stopped and I needed a way to track calories. I've learned alot here from the posts.

So again, let me know if someone at her stage should really be worrying about the order vs actually just doing it and see how it works out. I've done it both ways. I value the lifting so I do it first. If I valued the cardio more, I'd do that first. Being so estoteric at this stage (or even where I'm at) seems a LITTLE like nitpicking to me. That is to me, as in my opinion.

So if the question is "over my head", let me know how my answer is an indication of that. Thanks

How can you judge what "stage" I am at merely by either how much weight I have lost or how long I have been on MFP?? Being on here 60 odd days doesn't mean I only started working out that many days ago.

I am happy to list my workout programme but it isn't relevant to the original question.

Here's why. Because it's a GUESS. I HAD to guess because unlike myself, you haven't given me (us) where you are, what you do or anything else for that matter.

To me, it's relavant. Because in the end, we are all here t either lose weight, gain strength, lose fat, get fit or all of the above. If you are doing some advanced marathon workouts then, it might matter. If you are doing 20-30 min of light /moderate exercise (either way), it really won't matter which order. What would matter is you actually do it.

So since you are so defensive about being judged incorrectly, then by all means, set the record straight.

Timdog57

I've noticed that you have 0 lbs lost. So you are newish here.

IMHO here. It's 10x more important that do actually do lift and cardio in whatever order at this stage.

You won't be advanced enough in either area at this point to notice any significant difference.

Just do it and worry about the order later. I've done it both ways.

I have been on here 2 months and only weigh every 4 to 6 weeks so please don't assume by my ticker that I'm new to exercise. And my focus is not on the scales hence it is important to me to get things right so I can achieve my goals.

Even two months is still a beginner IMHO. I sort of have to assume since you logs aren't public.

So how are you exercising right now? List up your routine.

Considering you're only 2 months into this, I'll stand by the logic that doing it in either order is more important at this stage

So, 4 pounds lost makes you some kind of expert??? What the heck kind of answer is this? If the question is over your head and you don't know the answer, simply don't answer. Don't attack someone else for asking a very reasonable question just because you have no clue what they're talking about.

I've been here for about 3 weeks. Lost 4lbs. Yes, I'm new here also. I never said I was an expert and it wasn't an attack. The post might be short and to the point but look at the advice and let me know if it's right or wrong. Then state why.

I've been working out for years. And lost 10lbs PRIOR to joining the site. I joined here because my progress has stopped and I needed a way to track calories. I've learned alot here from the posts.

So again, let me know if someone at her stage should really be worrying about the order vs actually just doing it and see how it works out. I've done it both ways. I value the lifting so I do it first. If I valued the cardio more, I'd do that first. Being so estoteric at this stage (or even where I'm at) seems a LITTLE like nitpicking to me. That is to me, as in my opinion.

So if the question is "over my head", let me know how my answer is an indication of that. Thanks

How can you judge what "stage" I am at merely by either how much weight I have lost or how long I have been on MFP?? Being on here 60 odd days doesn't mean I only started working out that many days ago.

I am happy to list my workout programme but it isn't relevant to the original question.

Here's why. Because it's a GUESS. I HAD to guess because unlike myself, you haven't given me (us) where you are, what you do or anything else for that matter.

To me, it's relavant. Because in the end, we are all here t either lose weight, gain strength, lose fat, get fit or all of the above. If you are doing some advanced marathon workouts then, it might matter. If you are doing 20-30 min of light /moderate exercise (either way), it really won't matter which order. What would matter is you actually do it.

So since you are so defensive about being judged incorrectly, then by all means, set the record straight.

Actually, none of that is relevant to the question posed. Her question was about glycogen storage not anything to do with training for a marathon or not. Again you are proving that the question is over your head, and you are attacking people.

Why can't you just stay out of the discussion if you have nothing of any value to add?!?!?

Timdog57

I'm trying to find articles to answer the question at hand, and so far I've yet to find any that fully answer the question. I did find this one though, that is related and I thought interesting.

http://sweatscience.com/training-without-breakfast-boosts-glycogen-stores/

Jeff92se

I've noticed that you have 0 lbs lost. So you are newish here.

IMHO here. It's 10x more important that do actually do lift and cardio in whatever order at this stage.

You won't be advanced enough in either area at this point to notice any significant difference.

Just do it and worry about the order later. I've done it both ways.

I have been on here 2 months and only weigh every 4 to 6 weeks so please don't assume by my ticker that I'm new to exercise. And my focus is not on the scales hence it is important to me to get things right so I can achieve my goals.

Even two months is still a beginner IMHO. I sort of have to assume since you logs aren't public.

So how are you exercising right now? List up your routine.

Considering you're only 2 months into this, I'll stand by the logic that doing it in either order is more important at this stage

So, 4 pounds lost makes you some kind of expert??? What the heck kind of answer is this? If the question is over your head and you don't know the answer, simply don't answer. Don't attack someone else for asking a very reasonable question just because you have no clue what they're talking about.

I've been here for about 3 weeks. Lost 4lbs. Yes, I'm new here also. I never said I was an expert and it wasn't an attack. The post might be short and to the point but look at the advice and let me know if it's right or wrong. Then state why.

I've been working out for years. And lost 10lbs PRIOR to joining the site. I joined here because my progress has stopped and I needed a way to track calories. I've learned alot here from the posts.

So again, let me know if someone at her stage should really be worrying about the order vs actually just doing it and see how it works out. I've done it both ways. I value the lifting so I do it first. If I valued the cardio more, I'd do that first. Being so estoteric at this stage (or even where I'm at) seems a LITTLE like nitpicking to me. That is to me, as in my opinion.

So if the question is "over my head", let me know how my answer is an indication of that. Thanks

How can you judge what "stage" I am at merely by either how much weight I have lost or how long I have been on MFP?? Being on here 60 odd days doesn't mean I only started working out that many days ago.

I am happy to list my workout programme but it isn't relevant to the original question.

Here's why. Because it's a GUESS. I HAD to guess because unlike myself, you haven't given me (us) where you are, what you do or anything else for that matter.

To me, it's relavant. Because in the end, we are all here t either lose weight, gain strength, lose fat, get fit or all of the above. If you are doing some advanced marathon workouts then, it might matter. If you are doing 20-30 min of light /moderate exercise (either way), it really won't matter which order. What would matter is you actually do it.

So since you are so defensive about being judged incorrectly, then by all means, set the record straight.

Actually, none of that is relevant to the question posed. Her question was about glycogen storage not anything to do with training for a marathon or not. Again you are proving that the question is over your head, and you are attacking people.

Why can't you just stay out of the discussion if you have nothing of any value to add?!?!?

I understand the question perfectly. Actually I'm trying to answer in a different way. The question is really just some question is it? Some random technical question about cardio vs lifting order? You have to think about the reasons BEHIND such a question. Why ask such a question? How does such a question related to what this person is trying to achieve? What exactly IS she trying to achieve? That's where I'm coming from.

For the last time, no one has attacked anyone here. YOU made the SAME type of reply/assumption YES?? Yes, But I was happy to clairfy it for context right? You didn't seem to disagree with the explanation either. If you want to take my reply to her as an "attack" then what's your excuse for one of your replies to me? Either they both WERE or both were not. You can't really throw blame my way without implicating yourself here. Then again, I didn't take your statement as an attack, nor did I reply as if it were one. Right?

Sidesteal

I'm trying to find articles to answer the question at hand, and so far I've yet to find any that fully answer the question. I did find this one though, that is related and I thought interesting.

http://sweatscience.com/training-without-breakfast-boosts-glycogen-stores/

Lyle makes mention of the mobilization of fatty acids which are then used for fuel, but it seems somewhat vague and inconclusive. Maybe someone will jump back into this thread with some linkies.

Will read the above.

SHBoss1673

I'm trying to find articles to answer the question at hand, and so far I've yet to find any that fully answer the question. I did find this one though, that is related and I thought interesting.

http://sweatscience.com/training-without-breakfast-boosts-glycogen-stores/

Lyle makes mention of the mobilization of fatty acids which are then used for fuel, but it seems somewhat vague and inconclusive. Maybe someone will jump back into this thread with some linkies.

Will read the above.

what would you like to know? I can do some looking around with my resources if you need specific studies. But there's a lot out there and without having a very specific set of criteria, the results would be rather vast. I can also tell you from my advanced nutrition, metabolism, and bio-chemistry study (I've done a ton of my own research on the subject) most of what you would like to know. If you're really interested in the human metabolism, I can recommend some books, but most of them are very advanced and require a college level degree in chemistry. Really, in order to truely understand the details about human metabolic rates, you must have an extremely solid grasp on bio-chem.

emmab0902

Firstly, are we not able to ask generalised questions from a genuine interest in science without it having to be about an individual? Because I am fascinated by science but don't necessarily have to be wanting to relate all of it to myself.

But to set the record straight, my goals are fitness, reduction in body fat and increased strength. I am a former competitive swimmer who was ranked second in my country (New Zealand) so have experience in fitness and nutrition.

Now that I am older (41) and taking medication that affects metabolism (20mg of Nadolol for SVT incase you want to know exactly what it is) I want to build muscle AND bone strength, as well as be able to come off the medication. My goals etc are on my profile page.

I am 5'4" about 123 lbs - only weigh myself every 4-6 weeks and the last time was start of September as the scale is not my focus.

Anything else you would like to know??

Oh and I have a postgraduate degree in science.

Jeff92se

Firstly, are we not able to ask generalised questions from a genuine interest in science without it having to be about an individual? Because I am fascinated by science but don't necessarily have to be wanting to relate all of it to myself.

But to set the record straight, my goals are fitness, reduction in body fat and increased strength. I am a former competitive swimmer who was ranked second in my country (New Zealand) so have experience in fitness and nutrition.

Now that I am older (41) and taking medication that affects metabolism (20mg of Nadolol for SVT incase you want to know exactly what it is) I want to build muscle AND bone strength, as well as be able to come off the medication. My goals etc are on my profile page.

I am 5'4" about 123 lbs - only weigh myself every 4-6 weeks and the last time was start of September as the scale is not my focus.

Anything else you would like to know??

Sure. what is your typical workout routine? Lifting should be good for your bone density.

Sidesteal

what would you like to know?

I would like to know how much of a difference it really makes in the context of overall fat loss.

I presume that things like this (trying to specifically time your cardio relative to your glycogen stores) in the context of overall effectiveness are probably negligable for someone out of shape in the grand scheme of things, and I would also presume that it would only be a tactic that someone who is trying to get contest-lean would even bother to employ, since a good old-fashoined calorie deficit can get you pretty far as is.

But, the above isn't based on fact, I am being presumptuous.

I am skeptical, but definitely enjoy reading peer reviewed research.