Pesctarians. vs. Vegetarians

Qarol

I eat meat. I eat fish. I eat veggies.

So do animals. Its part of nature, its how life goes on.

With that being said - Factory farms are very, very nasty places. I understand why they exist (to lower cost) but IMO the meat you buy from a factory farm is far inferior, in addition, I think animals should be allowed to live AS ANIMALS, not in a cage.

I have NO problems eating range fed beef, or free range chickens, because they live and die as animals are supposed to.

IMO, "animal rights" reasons are one of the worst reasons to not eat meat. (Assuming you are eating free range meats) because its just part of life...

But I really don't care what others do... as long as they don't encroach on MY rights to eat as I choose, I will help defend theirs.

I couldn't help myself...I have never agreed as much with what you've written as I do right now. And I usually like the way you think....

kstep88

Delete.

Elizabeth_C34

There's a bit in one of Michael Pollans books about fish in fish farms being fed pellets made from chickens. Really? Fish eat chicken?
Plus the fact that the fish farms themselves can be damaging to wild stocks.

I do eat fish, but as a diver I am well aware of the damage some forms of fishing do to the sea. Dynamite fishing in Asia. Scallop fishing (on the other hand, scallops I have plucked myself are great) etc. and before you say 'I don't live in Asia, when it comes to fishing, it really IS a worldwide industry.

I wish more bycatch was available. If we want to stop overfishing, that is the way to go. And fishing systems that are adapted so as not to damage other creatures (weighted longlines to protect albatrosses etc). And while we are at it we can create more no take zones, and stop using plastic which turtles like to eat.

It's still cruel - so if you are a vegetarian who doesn't eat meat on ethical grounds, there is no justification for eating fish.

Making bycatch profitable sounds like a very bad idea. There would be no more incentive to continue developing new technology to avoid it in the future if this were the case.

Avalonis

Holy crap! I am pretty surprised we've managed to have a healthy, intelligent debate about a controversial topic without devolving into trolling and name calling.

MFP is improving....






And now......... you stupid veggie neener heads need to eat more meat because you will DIE without protein and you can't get protein from ANY vegetables! DUH stupids!

Avalonis

I guess since I work for one of the largest US beef companies/slaughter house's... I shouldn't give any information on this post.. but all the cows I see look rather content, are kept in spacious areas, and fed quite well... oh and then they get slaughtered. But... they are happy before they die. (Assuming they have feelings) Do plants have feelings when they are being ripped from the ground and trees? Better put down the vegi's. (Living organisms)

Maybe true, but they aren't allowed to live as animals should, (semi) free ranging and eating what comes naturally to them. THATs my only concern

I can't wait until they start mass producing cloned meat. Sign me up, that would lower cost so much and be a humane alternative to factory farms.

kstep88

Oh I removed it. Calm down. & I do not intend on consuming cloned meat. Buttt there aren't really many places left where animals can be free... at least not the ones that are eaten. I was just saying.... not all places are that horrible. But I'll remove myself from the thread... & eat my steak for dinner now. Veg on!

I guess since I work for one of the largest US beef companies/slaughter house's... I shouldn't give any information on this post.. but all the cows I see look rather content, are kept in spacious areas, and fed quite well... oh and then they get slaughtered. But... they are happy before they die. (Assuming they have feelings) Do plants have feelings when they are being ripped from the ground and trees? Better put down the vegi's. (Living organisms)

Maybe true, but they aren't allowed to live as animals should, (semi) free ranging and eating what comes naturally to them. THATs my only concern

I can't wait until they start mass producing cloned meat. Sign me up, that would lower cost so much and be a humane alternative to factory farms.

IronmanPanda

I have solved the OP's issue. Here is a totally humane way to eat meat!

http://youtu.be/c66KV7RWKJI

Enjoy!

Elizabeth_C34

I have solved the OP's issue. Here is a totally humane way to eat meat!

http://youtu.be/c66KV7RWKJI

Enjoy!

eillamarie

A lot of fish, especially salmon, are farmed & actually aren't as healthy & wild as ones caught by fisherman in rivers and oceans. If I were you I would stick to "wild" salmon. It should say that on the label.

Cakepiebeer

Teach yourself to hunt, teach yourself to fish. Case closed

VitaLeta

I don't have any info for you to attempt to sway you one way or another. But my thoughts are that you just eat what works for you. Why put a label to it? If eating fish now and then works for you, then you're allowed! Make peace with it and don't guilt yourself over it!

EmpressOfJudgment

Labels, labels, labels. I was a vegetarian for 10 years, a vegan for 2 years, a pescetarian for a year, then I started eating poultry about a year ago (birdetarian?), and now I eat all types of meat or you might say I'm a meatetarian. I started eating meat because I have a gluten and lactose intolerance and it was just too difficult to avoid those things and not eat meat. It can be done, but I decided I needed more options in my diet.

Anyhow, I originally became vegetarian because I learned all about the horrors of the meat industry. It wasn't just the suffering of the animals, but also the awful and dangerous conditions in which the employees had to work, coupled with how factory farms were pushing small family farms out of business. It's a nasty industry.

Anyhow, I could talk about this all night, but the points I'd like to make are as follows:

1. If you've been a vegetarian for 2 years for purely animal rights reasons, you should already know why you, labeling yourself this way, should not eat fish. However, it sounds to me like you want to eat fish and you are hoping someone will give you the go ahead.

2. If you want to eat fish, go ahead.

3. If you choose to eat meat, and yes, fish is meat, just pay attention to where it is coming from. Others have already mentioned the farming vs. wild caught issues. I won't rehash it.

4. No matter what you choose, someone on either side will always challenge you on it. You have to do what feels right for you and try not to care about what other people think. Good luck in your decision.


p.s. I have a sister who has been vegan for over 13 years and she makes me feel guilty all the time. And I dealt for years with people challenging me always trying to convince me why i should eat meat. This is what I mean by, you'll likely get crap from people no matter what you decide. The vegans on this site aren't going to say, "Yeah, go eat fish!"

VegGrrl

I was kind of hoping for gross fish videos to remind me why I went vegetarian in the first place, but I guess I'm going to have to make a trip back to peta

I was a "pescatarian" but I quit eating seafood after a visit to Chinatown in NYC. Walking by those seafood restaurants and seeing the fish and shellfish in filthy, cramped tanks with obvious wounds and diseases made me so ill I gave up fish on the spot.

Not soon after, I found out the truth about dairy farms...VOILA'! Dairy - gone from my life. Eggs as well.

Later, I read a lot of books about the healthiness of a vegan diet (The China Study, John Robbins' books, Dr. Neil Barnard's books, Dr. John McDougal's books, etc.) and I realised that my ethics were also good for my health.

More checking into where animal products come from (wool - Google "mulesing") and I realised that a total vegan lifestyle is the only lifestyle that coincides with my personal ethics and Buddhist (non-violence) philosophy. We all arrive where we are in our own way. I hope that you find the information you are looking for and a re happy with your decisions.

PS- I am also gluten intolerant and anyone who says it's "too much trouble" to be vegan and gluten free is just lazy, IMHO. It's the same as saying that eating healthy and exercising is JUST TOO MUCH WORK then wonder why you're fat and feel like *kitten*. If you care enough about something (your health, your looks, animals, the environment, whatever!) you'll do it and be happy doing it!

Namaste -

EmpressOfJudgment

PS- I am also gluten intolerant and anyone who says it's "too much trouble" to be vegan and gluten free is just lazy, IMHO. It's the same as saying that eating healthy and exercising is JUST TOO MUCH WORK then wonder why you're fat and feel like *kitten*. If you care enough about something (your health, your looks, animals, the environment, whatever!) you'll do it and be happy doing it!

Namaste -

I assume you are talking to me since I just posted that. That is the judgement I was talking about. It's the one thing most people hate about vegetarians. I'm not lazy. I was less effective at losing weight until I reintroduced meat into my diet again.

I am offended that you judge people like that and then follow up your post with "namaste."

GeauxDonielle

Holy crap! I am pretty surprised we've managed to have a healthy, intelligent debate about a controversial topic without devolving into trolling and name calling.

MFP is improving.... And now......... you stupid veggie neener heads need to eat more meat because you will DIE without protein and you can't get protein from ANY vegetables! DUH stupids!

I am always over my protein- low to no dairy(soy milk and water and tea) and no meat- it's probably from all those veggies I'm eating. il agree with most of things said- I personally have guilt issues and do not like the disrespect that goes on with the animals. People eat way too much meat as they donother things which is why we have such obesity issues here in America. Cause Americans hear something is good for them and think "if alittle is good alot must be better". If people would eat in necessity and moderation we prob wouldn't need factory farms and could support our locals more. I have chickens and use their eggs. I don't purchase cow milk (yes i do buy some products that use milk) I support our local dairy (who has a humane award and pasture raised cattle- all cows are named also) when i need dairy.
It's all about what personal reasons you have behind your decisions. Just remember to eat healthy and exercise whatever you do

Jade_Butterfly

(but a ton of awesomely snarky comments)

Well, to be a fair, when the troll says he's fine not being fed and you feed him anyway by being snarky yourself, it sounds like there's more than one party at fault there.

I do hope you find the information you're looking for, though. It's certainly not within my area of expertise.

Agreed. . sometimes ignoring it is your best course of action. .. just take the positive things out of the thread. ..:bigsmile:

killagb

(but a ton of awesomely snarky comments)

Well, to be a fair, when the troll says he's fine not being fed and you feed him anyway by being snarky yourself, it sounds like there's more than one party at fault there.

I do hope you find the information you're looking for, though. It's certainly not within my area of expertise.

Agreed. . sometimes ignoring it is your best course of action. .. just take the positive things out of the thread. ..:bigsmile:

Where you focused on a negative post here rather than the actual topic. :flowerforyou:

girlinahat

There's a bit in one of Michael Pollans books about fish in fish farms being fed pellets made from chickens. Really? Fish eat chicken?
Plus the fact that the fish farms themselves can be damaging to wild stocks.

I do eat fish, but as a diver I am well aware of the damage some forms of fishing do to the sea. Dynamite fishing in Asia. Scallop fishing (on the other hand, scallops I have plucked myself are great) etc. and before you say 'I don't live in Asia, when it comes to fishing, it really IS a worldwide industry.

I wish more bycatch was available. If we want to stop overfishing, that is the way to go. And fishing systems that are adapted so as not to damage other creatures (weighted longlines to protect albatrosses etc). And while we are at it we can create more no take zones, and stop using plastic which turtles like to eat.

It's still cruel - so if you are a vegetarian who doesn't eat meat on ethical grounds, there is no justification for eating fish.

Making bycatch profitable sounds like a very bad idea. There would be no more incentive to continue developing new technology to avoid it in the future if this were the case.

yes and no. Check out http://www.fishfight.net/

technology has certainly come a long way however there comes a point where it cannot go any further. It really is not possible to selectively fish aside from a few species. Part of the bycatch issue is not down to the technology but the quota system. The fishermen have a set quota and cannot land any more than this. Therefore if a large part of their catch is fish species that less people are interested in (gurnard, hake etc. as opposed to the bass, bream etc. that people prefer) then the fishermen, to get the most for their money, will throw away the less sellable fish.

that's not something that technology can deal with, it's an attitude shift. It's about encouraging the public to try more than the standard cod and chips and focus on the more abundant species to allow the cod time to recover (there's plenty of pollock in the sea). It's also about challenging the quota system and seeing if there are other options.

I totally agree that technology can be made better. Having seen documentaries where they show scallop dredgers, I am horrifed that such a contraption is allowed in the sea. Having dived in No-take- zones I can tell you that they are 100% successful. discussion with the public, the fishermen and the environmental groups is what is needed (plus for us over the pond, those chaps in Brussels). BUT, one of the major difficulties particularly in Europe, is the worldwide nature of the fishing industry. The Spanish fish off the coast of Canada - who then makes the rules and how do you enforce it?

There are much wider implications and issues going on in our seas than just fishing, but since the seas and oceans make up such a massive part of the world mass, we need to pay more attention to it in many ways. It is an oft overlooked portion of our universe, and yet it provides us with life.


I will add, I am an omnivore who eats a range of foodstuffs, although with a strong preference for freerange and local meats and fish. I eat meat for ethical sustainable reasons.