Low-Carb Kids?
Replies
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Rebekah5..:
"I actually don't have a problem with the paleo/primal diet. If I understand that diet correctly, it's rich in berries and nuts, correct? Is it even ketogenic?
I will continue to think of ketosis as a stress response and not the ideal state for your body.
The real issue for me is that we don't know."
Rebekah,
yes, the paleo diet allows nutrient rich, unprocessed foods such as berries and nuts. This lifestyle would be keotogenic just like any other: at night, EVERYONE becomes keto as long as they didn't stuff their faces before bedtime. Wiki it! GOING KETO IS NORMAL.
Rebekah, The real issue is that you don't know,
you have never tried to become a fat burning human, and you are fat because you are a sugar burner, not a fat burner.
You are brainwashed to believe that you will die or suffer ill health if you lower the carb (glucose) intake in your diet.
Your body crashes w/o sugar, thus making you believe that your brainwashed belief that you have to have carbs in your diet as your main source of energy must be true.
Unfortunately, you are wrong.
You are addicted to sugar and your metabolisim in on a huge cycle of stressful hormonal surges and crashes, making you believe that carbs are the only fuel your body runs best on.
You keep posting your opinions on something are are unfamiliar with and it shows your complete lack of understanding of how the human body fuels itself.
I see you are on a diet to lose weight, how about sticking to what you know and get off the paleo / low carb bashing statements you are making
OR
For once in your life Go low carb and see how easily it is to burn body fat with out any health problems. Yeah, you will suffwer a few weeks of sugar withdrawls, hormone readjustments, headaches, cleansing, but after you get through you detox you will literally be made new!
Quoting the sugar industry's mantra that my/our body needs carbs/sugar/glucose to live is just showing how much of a lack of biochemical and organic chemistry functioning inside the human body DOCTORS and Trainers don't know! Quit following ignorant people making ignorant statements. Quit making ingnorant statements yourself.
Low carb is the safest way to utilize your body's safest method of fueling the mitochondria in every cell in your body. Your body can create energy (glycogen) if it needs to from fat, protien, or carbs. Did you get that? It can create energy from a fat, protein OR carbohydrate molecule! Yes, your brain is mostly fat, but it also needs to repair itself with proteins and fats to remain functioning, as well as to be fueled by glycogen, which can be made from Fat, Proteins, OR Carbs. Did you get that?
Glucose comes only from carbohydrates, and glucose in the bloodstream is TOXIC, so your body wants to get rid of it asap and turn it into fat, or use it right away and turn it into glycogen. Too much glucose in the bloodstream also spikes insulin, another thing that is toxic in your body when there is too much.
So the logic is that if I want to be - if I want my family to be - a healthy and normal human being who is lean and not an emotional wreck, I will focus on eating in the most efficent, unstressful and nutrient dense way possible. What is that way labeled as? A low carb or a paleo Way of Life! For people who are over weight a Paleo / Low carb diet is a safe way to lower or eliminate high glycemic index problems during meal time, insulin spikes, loopy behaivor from glucose toxicity in the blood and the hormonal sugar high/crash, etc.
Plus, when you eat low carb you body becomes a fat burning metabolisim, drawing from the energy in the foods you ate, or the glycogen in the liver and muscles with out the down falls that carbohydrates-->glucose does!
ON a low carb diet your body easily can burn body fat and use glycogen from the liver and muscles
WITHOUT the interference of muscle destroying and immune system destroying and metabolisim destroying insulin, cortisol, etc. that your body needs to add to the blood stream in order to deal with glucose. Completely safe. For all ages.0 -
I say Healthy Carb Kids.0
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Yes, the brain functions better off fats, than carbs.
Grrr. I wish people wouldn't post things like this. I don't want to offend, but dam' it, I'm a neuroscientist (a neuropharmacologist to be exact) and brains absolutely do not function better on fat than carbs. No way. Never. Their preferred nutrient (the one they are most efficient at processing, the one that produces the most ATP for their efforts) is glucose.
Rebekah,
go back to school! Glucose does NOT fuel the brain, the ATP is run from glycogen.
Glycogen is a chain of glucose. Glucose can not be used by any cell in the body. Glucose must be converted to be used by the body in long chains. These chains are glycogen for transport and storage for quick uptake when needed by the body for energy. Once the cells in your body (of any type, including the brain cell) need energy, glycogen is released and glucose may be grabbed from the chain to add or subtract when necessary in creating the energy chain a cell needs. Usually the cell will grab ATP as that chain for its energy source, and ATP is basically glycogen + a fat/lipid enzyme. So, glycogen and a fat is what our body wil use during most of the time as energy.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061030225122AAmkucR is a basic explaination of the difference.
ATP is the fuel for cells. It is comprised of some glucose molecules that form a long chain we call glycogen, plus some phosporus, nitrogen for the enzymes required to load ATP into the cell mitochondria.
Carb / glucose is just a small molecule that is unusuable until turned into a longer chain for transport, storage, conversion....
Glycogen comes from Proteins, Carbs, OR Fats.
Plus, the Brain will need micronutrients that can only be delivered by LIPIDS (FATS!), as only a lipid carry fat soluble minerals and vitamins necessary for the ionic exchanges within the brain cells, fats are very necessary in your diet. That include ATP.
Rebekah, please stop posting wrong information, you may not realize it, but your posts come across like you are against low carb diets completely. I can only benevolently think that you just have misinformation or have been educated incorrectly. I am very sorry that your lack of understanding brain functions and biochemistry outside of pharmacutecals has hindered your understanding of how biochemistry in cytotechnology (something I have an education in) when it comes to nutrition has clouded your judgement.
I really hope that you get some organic chemistry and biochemistry classes in nutrition under your belt and stop making statements on MFP that are wrong and can seriously hinder the choice of someone who is looking for a safe alternative for weight loss, a return to good metabolic health, and an cure for their hypoglycemica or diabetes. Peace.0 -
bump... (at work, not time to reply now)0
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Rebekah5..:
"I actually don't have a problem with the paleo/primal diet. If I understand that diet correctly, it's rich in berries and nuts, correct? Is it even ketogenic?
I will continue to think of ketosis as a stress response and not the ideal state for your body.
The real issue for me is that we don't know."
Rebekah,
yes, the paleo diet allows nutrient rich, unprocessed foods such as berries and nuts. This lifestyle would be keotogenic just like any other: at night, EVERYONE becomes keto as long as they didn't stuff their faces before bedtime. Wiki it! GOING KETO IS NORMAL.
Rebekah, The real issue is that you don't know,
you have never tried to become a fat burning human, and you are fat because you are a sugar burner, not a fat burner.
You are brainwashed to believe that you will die or suffer ill health if you lower the carb (glucose) intake in your diet.
Your body crashes w/o sugar, thus making you believe that your brainwashed belief that you have to have carbs in your diet as your main source of energy must be true.
Unfortunately, you are wrong.
You are addicted to sugar and your metabolisim in on a huge cycle of stressful hormonal surges and crashes, making you believe that carbs are the only fuel your body runs best on.
You keep posting your opinions on something are are unfamiliar with and it shows your complete lack of understanding of how the human body fuels itself.
I see you are on a diet to lose weight, how about sticking to what you know and get off the paleo / low carb bashing statements you are making
OR
For once in your life Go low carb and see how easily it is to burn body fat with out any health problems. Yeah, you will suffwer a few weeks of sugar withdrawls, hormone readjustments, headaches, cleansing, but after you get through you detox you will literally be made new!
Quoting the sugar industry's mantra that my/our body needs carbs/sugar/glucose to live is just showing how much of a lack of biochemical and organic chemistry functioning inside the human body DOCTORS and Trainers don't know! Quit following ignorant people making ignorant statements. Quit making ingnorant statements yourself.
Low carb is the safest way to utilize your body's safest method of fueling the mitochondria in every cell in your body. Your body can create energy (glycogen) if it needs to from fat, protien, or carbs. Did you get that? It can create energy from a fat, protein OR carbohydrate molecule! Yes, your brain is mostly fat, but it also needs to repair itself with proteins and fats to remain functioning, as well as to be fueled by glycogen, which can be made from Fat, Proteins, OR Carbs. Did you get that?
Glucose comes only from carbohydrates, and glucose in the bloodstream is TOXIC, so your body wants to get rid of it asap and turn it into fat, or use it right away and turn it into glycogen. Too much glucose in the bloodstream also spikes insulin, another thing that is toxic in your body when there is too much.
So the logic is that if I want to be - if I want my family to be - a healthy and normal human being who is lean and not an emotional wreck, I will focus on eating in the most efficent, unstressful and nutrient dense way possible. What is that way labeled as? A low carb or a paleo Way of Life! For people who are over weight a Paleo / Low carb diet is a safe way to lower or eliminate high glycemic index problems during meal time, insulin spikes, loopy behaivor from glucose toxicity in the blood and the hormonal sugar high/crash, etc.
Plus, when you eat low carb you body becomes a fat burning metabolisim, drawing from the energy in the foods you ate, or the glycogen in the liver and muscles with out the down falls that carbohydrates-->glucose does!
ON a low carb diet your body easily can burn body fat and use glycogen from the liver and muscles
WITHOUT the interference of muscle destroying and immune system destroying and metabolisim destroying insulin, cortisol, etc. that your body needs to add to the blood stream in order to deal with glucose. Completely safe. For all ages.
This is the most ridiculously condescending garbage I have ever read. For one thing, and this is basic biology, ALL foods spike insulin. In fact, some proteins can actually spike insulin even MORE than carbs and glucose do. So going on and on and then demonizing insulin as some evil process that you need to stop from happening, and that you insist will go away once you stop eating carbs, completely invalidates your entire argument. Insulin is used for a ton of other body functions, beyond controlling blood glucose. For one thing, glucose transfers energy and nutrients into muscles to muscle growth. It's also an appetite suppressant. Know why protein helps you feel full? Because insulin suppresses your appetite.
I won't even comment on the rest of it at this time, because it's straight up "carbophobe" low carb preaching, and isn't worth an actual response.
For the record, you don't need to eat low carb to go into ketosis. Ketosis is a natural bodily function, but just like times of extended insulin production and high blood sugar, it's not normal to be in ketosis for extended periods of time, either. Balance is the key to good health. I don't believe in eating high or low anything, moderation everywhere.0 -
Because carbs are more efficient as fuel for kids. They are growing and there's significant proof that carbs as good for the brain. A growing brain is good.A quick Google search yields a lot of websites advising against the use of low-carb diets for children and teens, unless a child is severely overweight. Haven't really seen any in favor. The tenor of these against-arguments seems to be that carbohydrates are somehow essential to normal child development, but from what I understand, unlike proteins and fats, there are no "essential' carbohydrates. A lot of these websites also talk about other nutrients associated with carbs, but none of these nutrients seem to be unique to carbs themselves.
Of the 40 or 50 nutrition and diet books I've read, haven't seen or read too many specific studies on low-carb diets for kids, except that it's one alternative for overweight and obese kids. I'm not a parent myself, but my wife and I discuss how to think about children's nutrition as we do some family planning. So I was wondering your thoughts, for and against?
If low-carb is advisable when a kid is overweight or obese, why couldn't such an approach be adapted to prevent a child from becoming overweight or obese in the first place?
In full disclosure, I'm obviously biased toward a low-carb approach. I've done pretty well with a low-carb diet (-120 lbs & -30% body fat in 12 months so far) and it's been life-changing to the say the least.
Let's face it, whether it's low carb, low fat, high protein, vegan etc. people get overweight for one reason..............excess calories. That's what it all boils down to.0 -
For the record, you don't need to eat low carb to go into ketosis.
Wut?
Can you explain this? The only other times your body will go into ketosis is during long intense exercise (depending on the amount of carbs you've eaten), sleeping (again, depends on the amount of carbs), and during starvation (which is technically low carb).0 -
For the record, you don't need to eat low carb to go into ketosis. Ketosis is a natural bodily function, but just like times of extended insulin production and high blood sugar, it's not normal to be in ketosis for extended periods of time, either. Balance is the key to good health. I don't believe in eating high or low anything, moderation everywhere.
Please explain your thought process because your statement escapes me. Everyones ketone tolerance level is different but saying you don't need to eat low carb to go into ketosis is just plain ignorant.0 -
it's not normal to be in ketosis for extended periods of time, either
Inb4inuits0 -
This topic is doomed to descend into passionate debate.
If society actually knew what was best for children in their diet we would not be raising a population of overweight kids.
Breast milk is 50 to 60 percent calories from fat, about 30 to 40% calories from carbs and about 10% protein.
I am going to assume this ratio is designed for optimal growth and development.
50 to 60% calories from FAT sounds borderline low carb to me, and it CERTAINLY is not low fat.
Having said that, ketogenic diets are used as a medical therapy for diabetes in children, epilepsy in children and severe ADD and ADHD in children. I do not understand why these are valid medical treatments for those conditions but are not valid medical treatments for very obese children.
For the record, I do not think a child needs to be ketogenic, but I do think kids today get far to much carbs of ALL KINDS and far to little fat in proportion as demonstrated by the gold standard, breast milk.0 -
I thought medium-chain triglycerides were also ketongenic.0
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If he were to have said you don't need to eat 20g or 30g of carbs to get into ketosis, that would have been a more accurate statement, but to say you don't have to eat low carb is pretty subjective.0
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I wonder how Inuit children survive being cut off from almost all carbs 9 months out of the year.
Clearly human children can flourish and grow while ketogenic. In fact, they seem to be able to do it in the remotest and most difficult climates going.0 -
Are you both saying that you won't go into ketosis during a 24 hour fast? I fast twice a week. I stick to an average of a one third ratio of carbs, protein, and fat when I eat.0
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Yeah, I think that's how this whole thread devolved. People say "low carb" and the assumption is "chugging heavy cream and eating only bacon." I probably get around 100 g/day and that is "low carb" compared with the Standard American Diet and the USDA food guide.If he were to have said you don't need to eat 20g or 30g of carbs to get into ketosis, that would have been a more accurate statement, but to say you don't have to eat low carb is pretty subjective.0 -
If he were to have said you don't need to eat 20g or 30g of carbs to get into ketosis, that would have been a more accurate statement, but to say you don't have to eat low carb is pretty subjective.
To be fair, the term "low carb" itself is pretty subjective. I've seen people eating "low carb" using amounts anywhere from 20g to 150g of carbs.0 -
Are you both saying that you won't go into ketosis during a 24 hour fast? I fast twice a week. I stick to an average of a one third ratio of carbs, protein, and fat when I eat.
Fasting is technically "low carb".
Edit: Yes, it's low fat and low protein as well. The point is, if you consume enough carbohydrates, your body will not go into ketosis.0 -
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I guess everyone's idea of low carb is different. Low carb to me is under 70g, medium is 100-150, and high is above 200.0
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People without kids always have the best ideas on raising kids. :laugh:
LOL!! My thoughts exactly!! :bigsmile:
I really do hate this. My fiance and I are planning on having kids about a year after the wedding. What types of foods to feed them, what types of activities to have them do when growing up, what to do discipline wise. These are the types of things we discuss so that we're ready for issues before they happen, and act on a premeditated plan rather than a spontaneous one. As we get closer to having kids, we'll do more in the way of planning, but you better believe we've started discussing and researching now. I'm entitled to my own opinions just as much as you are. The only question is how much research I've done and/or the logic to my claims.0 -
Thanks for sharing that Acg. I think that was pretty ballsy on Martin's part, but a great article nonetheless, as to be expected from Martin.0 -
What is essential for life and what is essential for a well balanced healthy diet are not always the same thing. You'd be suprised what the human body can survive without, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to do so. In the absence of disease or food intollerances/allergies I believe children should be fed a well balanced diet and taught to get regular exercise. That's all that's needed for health.0
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Ketogenic diets as therapy for children: Used by John Hopkins and Mayo Clinic on children
http://www.charliefoundation.org/
http://www.our-kids.org/Archives/Ketogenic_diet_FAQ.html
Video Report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOu4ZcPmKVI
Happy, healthy, symptom-free epileptic child kept in ketosis, when given carbs, seizures return.
Baby, after 6 days in ketosis ended all life threatening seizures - Hopkins Children Center -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Jia_2HAp0&feature=related
There is truckloads of evidence that ketosis is a valid treatment for medical conditions, why not obesity?
The heart breaking story of a family that caves to the pressure of taking their daughter off an effective and successful ketogenic diet, and moving her to medication as her symptoms returned. This was done as ketogenic diets "felt wrong" to the parents and the daughter hated the food. The parents made this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP6WDHT70bQ&feature=related
So indeed, children can grow and overcome disease using a ketogenic diet. Is it ideal? Dunno. I am going to assume the composition in breast milk is ideal, that is diet high in healthy saturated fats, lower in carbs, but not actually "low carb"0 -
If he were to have said you don't need to eat 20g or 30g of carbs to get into ketosis, that would have been a more accurate statement, but to say you don't have to eat low carb is pretty subjective.
To be fair, the term "low carb" itself is pretty subjective. I've seen people eating "low carb" using amounts anywhere from 20g to 150g of carbs.
The better term which Dr Atkins used to say is that because everyone's carb threshold is different and we are all unique, a "controlled" carb approach is a better term.
Of course after he passed away and Atkins Nutritionals Corporation took it away from Dr Atkins wife they kept on with the low carb terminology.
Dr Atkins also said in HIS books that he wrote that he had patients that could only tolerate 40-50 grams of carbs per day to keep their bodies healthy where as others were able to eat upwards of 110 grams of carbs or more per day.
We all know that activity levels have a lot to do with carb level intake. The more active one is the higher the threshold the body will be able to tolerate over time.0 -
When the body has no free carbohydrates available (glycogen stores in the muscles and liver have been used and there is none available anywhere), fat must be broken down into acetyl-CoA in order to get energy for fueling the body. Your body starts breaking down body fat as acetyl-CoA. This starts fat synthesis in the body. Fat synthesis is when the body breaks down stored body fat in order to fuel its cells. The by product of fat synthesis during this process called Ketogenesis are ketone bodies.
Unless you are anorexic or go into a diabetic ketoacidosis, ketogenesis is perfectly safe and normal. It is the safest way for the body to process fuel and burn fuel. Ketogenesis will not produce ketoacidosis unless you are in extreme starvation mode and have no fat or muscle to convert! Or have some kind of serious metabolic disease. Most people can safely go into ketogenesis (fat burning mode).
A low carb diet is a proven and effective way to burn body fat, reduce or eliminate illness and aliments, reduce stress on the cells and is a natural way to live. There is nothing wrong with a low carb way of living or a low carb diet. Now, I do have a huge problem with low fat or no carb diets.... But that is not what the OP is about at all. The OP is about the benefits of low carbs, considering children.0 -
http://bodyshapingtips.com/burn_fat/does_the_body_burn_fat_or_muscle_first/
When planning to lose weight, a lot of people worry about losing their muscle shape, such as their brawny biceps or their six-pack. Thus, the question arises: Does the body burn fat or muscle first? Both fat and muscle tissues can be burned to provide heat and energy to the body but to understand if the body burns fat or muscle first, let us take a second look at the fat burning process.
When we eat, we take in nutrients as well as fat, whether what we eat is fatty or not. The body then breaks down the food, after which it disperses the nutrients and some fat to be absorbed in the bloodstream and used in bodily processes. Afterwards, the body stores leftover fat under the skin and in various organs throughout the body. In order for the human body to continue existing, it needs to use up the stored energy. The stored energy does not only come from fat but from glycogen, proteins, carbohydrates and muscle tissue. To know if the body burns fat or muscle first, let us review these sources of energy.
The first thing the body burns is protein, mainly because protein cannot be stored in the body. Proteins from alcohol are burned first followed by other proteins. These nutrients are dispersed in the bloodstream and any excess is channeled towards the excretory system to be removed from the body. Thus, you can rarely complain that your body has too much protein. Next, the body burns carbohydrates, both simple and complex, with glycogen being its main form. Glycogen is sugar stored mostly in the liver and controls blood sugar levels as well as providing most of the energy the body needs. Once glycogen has been used up, the body then burns up fat, breaking it down into smaller units to be absorbed in the blood stream. Muscle comes last. Thus, the answer to the question ‘does the body burn fat or muscle first’ is fat.
The idea that the body burns muscle first before fat may come from the fact that glycogen is also stored in muscle tissues. However, it is the glycogen in them and not the tissues themselves that get burned. In fact, some nutritionists and health experts claim that burning muscle tissues is not healthy. Muscles, after all, are necessary to perform body functions. If you feel you are burning muscles more than fat, you might want to ask your fitness trainer about it and possibly switch to a better routine. Also, if the muscles burn first, there would be little use in building and toning them to burn fat since that would mean they are used up first before the fat they are supposed to help break down. The next time you face the mirror and ask yourself if you should lose weight and whether your body burns fat or muscle first, relax. As long as you exercise regularly and eat sensibly, you’re bound to get the results you want and good health in the process.0 -
Well, that was completely unrelated...
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When the body has no free carbohydrates available (glycogen stores in the muscles and liver have been used and there is none available anywhere), fat must be broken down into acetyl-CoA in order to get energy for fueling the body. Your body starts breaking down body fat as acetyl-CoA. This starts fat synthesis in the body. Fat synthesis is when the body breaks down stored body fat in order to fuel its cells. The by product of fat synthesis during this process called Ketogenesis are ketone bodies.
Unless you are anorexic or go into a diabetic ketoacidosis, ketogenesis is perfectly safe and normal. It is the safest way for the body to process fuel and burn fuel. Ketogenesis will not produce ketoacidosis unless you are in extreme starvation mode and have no fat or muscle to convert! Or have some kind of serious metabolic disease. Most people can safely go into ketogenesis (fat burning mode).
A low carb diet is a proven and effective way to burn body fat, reduce or eliminate illness and aliments, reduce stress on the cells and is a natural way to live. There is nothing wrong with a low carb way of living or a low carb diet. Now, I do have a huge problem with low fat or no carb diets.... But that is not what the OP is about at all. The OP is about the benefits of low carbs, considering children.
Is a low carb diet proven safe for children? Not overweight or diseased children, just healthy children. Has there really been enough research on that to deem it "safe"? And moreover, is it needed or even advantageous in a healthy child?0 -
I'm confused by the part where ketosis occurs in the absence of glycogen, but at the same time, a poster is saying that the body makes glycogen from protein and fat, so, which is it? Does low carb cause you to run out of glycogen and then you don't have glycogen, causing ketosis, or do fats and proteins become glycogen, and the body has glycogen, preventing ketosis? You can't use two contradictory arguments at the same time. Because if the body uses protein and fat to make glycogen to fuel the brain, then the body will have glycogen stores and won't be ketogenic, and if the body is ketogenic, then there isn't any glycogen for the brain to use for fuel, (and yes, glucose/glycogen is the brain's preferred fuel source, because it's easy to use, fast, and efficient.)0
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When planning to lose weight, a lot of people worry about losing their muscle shape, such as their brawny biceps or their six-pack. Thus, the question arises: Does the body burn fat or muscle first? Both fat and muscle tissues can be burned to provide heat and energy to the body but to understand if the body burns fat or muscle first, let us take a second look at the fat burning process.
What does this have to do with the OP which was about low-carb diets for children??? If they've been fed a proper diet, children don't have a lot of fat on their bodies. And regardless of diet or weight, they don't have a lot of muscle tissue.0
This discussion has been closed.
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