Can somebody tell me why Trisodium Phosphate is used in food

tolygal

So I'm trying to choose better foods for my family - better meaning "cleaner," fewer ingredients, complex carbs (limiting the all white stuff - flour, sugar) and avoiding artificial sweeteners whenever reasonably possible.

So anyway, I've been searching for a cereal for them. I find Wheat Chex - which don't seem too bad, right?

Ingredients: Whole grain wheat, sugar, salt, molasses, trisodium phospahate, BHT.

So there is sugar, but only 5g total - seems much better than most cereals (so far, I cannot get them to eat oatmeal). So anyway, I buy it and bring it home and feed it to my kids. Then I decide to take the time to figure out what exactly Trisodium Phosphate is, so I do some searching on the internet. WTH!!! Why do they put this crap in our food??? Now, I'm hoping someone can tell me it's not as bad as it looks because my kids will actually eat this stuff (instead of honey nut cheerios which is what they usually eat). I read all these uses for it which don't seem like anything that we should put in our bodies and I think I must have mispelled something - and then I see a tiny blurb mixed in that it is approved as a food additive. What gives???

Beezil

You'd be amazed at what is approved to go into your food. :P I try not to think about it too much, personally, and stick to eating things that have ingredients I recognize whenever possible.

tigersword

It's used to regulate the acidity of certain foods, to keep them from being too acidic.

As for any potentially scary uses for it, keep in mind, water is an industrial lubricant and coolant.

cessnaholly

bump

agthorn

Trisodium phosphate is added to cereals that go through an extruder (i.e. anything 'shaped' - chex, lucky charms stars, etc) to help them maintain their shape.

killerqueen17

As for any potentially scary uses for it, keep in mind, water is an industrial lubricant and coolant.

It's true... and water is also harmful for people to breathe!!

Beezil

http://mobile.theweek.com/article/index/220866/whats-the-mcrib-made-of-anyway

:laugh:

NashvilleShelley

BHT is suppose to be what is bad...however, I can't remember why.

tolygal

As for any potentially scary uses for it, keep in mind, water is an industrial lubricant and coolant.

It's true... and water is also harmful for people to breathe!!

Well, yes - but that doesn't make water potentially harmful to my family - that's what I'm trying to figure out :-)

Trisodium phosphate is added to cereals that go through an extruder (i.e. anything 'shaped' - chex, lucky charms stars, etc) to help them maintain their shape.

Thanks - that at least explains why it's in there....

BHT is suppose to be what is bad...however, I can't remember why.

I've heard something about this, but haven't taken the time to look that one up yet.

All this knowledge is really hard to take in - and even harder to learn what I've been feeding my kids. I just can't believe what's "approved" to be in our food :-( Maybe the changes I'm making will help keep my sweet children safer... It sure isn't easy though - this crap is everywhere...

it_be_asin

I'd be more worried about the BHT than the Na3PO4. Trisodium phosphate is a simple inorganic salt, and you have plenty of sodium and phosphate in your body naturally - in fact, phosphate is a very important part of your body's natural energy system (ie in ATP/ADP)

tolygal

I'd be more worried about the BHT than the Na3PO4. Trisodium phosphate is a simple inorganic salt, and you have plenty of sodium and phosphate in your body naturally - in fact, phosphate is a very important part of your body's natural energy system (ie in ATP/ADP)

Thank you!!!! This is what I was really looking for in my question (well, part of it) - now I have the why and the what.
Now I'm off to figure out what the heck BHT is!

tigersword

As for any potentially scary uses for it, keep in mind, water is an industrial lubricant and coolant.

It's true... and water is also harmful for people to breathe!!

Well, yes - but that doesn't make water potentially harmful to my family - that's what I'm trying to figure out :-)

That's the entire point. Water has some potentially "scary" uses for it, yet isn't a danger to your family, why would you assume something like trisodium phosphate would be dangerous just because some of it's other uses are kinda scary sounding?

BHT is sold as a health supplement, either it's good for you, or we've just uncovered that health food stores suck. :noway:

BHT has actually been shown to have antiviral and antibacterial properties in people, and does good things against some scary diseases. Of course, there are studies linking it to a higher cancer risk... Then again, there are just as many studies actually linking it to a LOWER cancer risk. It is, after all, an antioxidant. All in all, it's not something worth worrying about.

Oh, and BHT is also a very common ingredient in cosmetics.

EDIT - Another quick fact check on BHT, it's basically a synthetic form of Vitamin E.

questionablemethods

I keep a jar of trisodium phosphate in my pantry. Sprinkle it on everything.

tolygal

As for any potentially scary uses for it, keep in mind, water is an industrial lubricant and coolant.

It's true... and water is also harmful for people to breathe!!

Well, yes - but that doesn't make water potentially harmful to my family - that's what I'm trying to figure out :-)

That's the entire point. Water has some potentially "scary" uses for it, yet isn't a danger to your family, why would you assume something like trisodium phosphate would be dangerous just because some of it's other uses are kinda scary sounding?

BHT is sold as a health supplement, either it's good for you, or we've just uncovered that health food stores suck. :noway:

BHT has actually been shown to have antiviral and antibacterial properties in people, and does good things against some scary diseases. Of course, there are studies linking it to a higher cancer risk... Then again, there are just as many studies actually linking it to a LOWER cancer risk. It is, after all, an antioxidant. All in all, it's not something worth worrying about.

Oh, and BHT is also a very common ingredient in cosmetics.

EDIT - Another quick fact check on BHT, it's basically a synthetic form of Vitamin E.

I didn't know that " Trisodium phosphate is a simple inorganic salt." I searched it on the web, and read several pages, all of which basically told me the same seemingly alarming things, but none of them said this basic information. So, I assumed that it could be some chemical that was potentially harmful to my family. Now I understand what it is and I'm no longer concerned about it.

I've never really paid much attention to what was in my food - now I am. I'm trying to chose foods that have ingredients that I understand. At the very least, I'm trying to chose foods with a short list of ingredients and I'm trying to learn what the things I don't know are. Which is why I did a search in the first place. When I saw what I did, I found it alarming. So I was concerned and asked because I figured some of the intellegent folks here could help me understand this item better. To be honest, telling me "As for any potentially scary uses for it, keep in mind, water is an industrial lubricant and coolant" didn't resolve my concerns as much as a a more clear explanation such as "Trisodium phosphate is a simple inorganic salt." It's kind of like saying something is "natural." There are many "natural" things that cause a body harm.... My assumption was simply based on what I was reading. I suppose the same thing could happen if I searched "water," - but I know what water is LOL - I didn't know what Trisodium Phosphate is.

I get the feeling (perhaps wrongly) that you think I over-reacted. Well, perhaps - now that I know what it is - I would agree with you. But when I search for something and everything says things like:

"... is a cleaning agent, food additive, stain remover and degreaser..."
and
"The quality of a paint job depends on a perfectly clean surface. The surface may not need sanding and stripping, but it must be clean. Using a powerful degreaser, like trisodium phosphate (TSP), to clean and etch the surface is strongly recommended. ..."
and
"Trisodium phosphate is a strong chemical. Poisoning occurs if you accidentally swallow, breathe in, or spill large amounts of this substance on your skin."

I get concerned.

Nothing I read suggested it was salt. Even when I go search now (cuz now I feel kind if silly), I get the same impression I did before and I've decided that I wasn't silly at all. If I didn't know what water was, went to search, and found only scary stuff come up, I'd probably worry about that too.

questionablemethods

For the most part, when I see ingredients like that (the kind that I am unlikely to have in my kitchen cupboard), it's not so much that I am afraid it could be harmful, but that it is a pretty big clue that this is a highly processed food that is pretty far removed from the whole food(s) that it came from and thus is not something I want to make up a large portion of my diet.

Of course, I could say that of pretty much anything with more than one ingredient.

tolygal

For the most part, when I see ingredients like that (the kind that I am unlikely to have in my kitchen cupboard), it's not so much that I am afraid it could be harmful, but that it is a pretty big clue that this is a highly processed food that is pretty far removed from the whole food(s) that it came from and thus is not something I want to make up a large portion of my diet.

Of course, I could say that of pretty much anything with more than one ingredient.

I know - that's why this whole "cleaning up my diet" thing is so discouraging.... I've come to the conclusion that I will never be a 100% clean/whole food eater. I'll just do the best I can without making myself too crazy LOL!!

questionablemethods

For the most part, when I see ingredients like that (the kind that I am unlikely to have in my kitchen cupboard), it's not so much that I am afraid it could be harmful, but that it is a pretty big clue that this is a highly processed food that is pretty far removed from the whole food(s) that it came from and thus is not something I want to make up a large portion of my diet.

Of course, I could say that of pretty much anything with more than one ingredient.

I know - that's why this whole "cleaning up my diet" thing is so discouraging.... I've come to the conclusion that I will never be a 100% clean/whole food eater. I'll just do the best I can without making myself too crazy LOL!!

Yeah. You have to pick your battles. If you want less processed foods for breakfast, you could do oatmeal instead of boxed cereal for breakfast (save a lot of money with that one, too) or eggs. It's definitely been a slow process for me. It's not like I banished all boxed/jarred/canned foods immediately. Still haven't, though right now it is mostly condiments like mustard and salsa.

tigersword

Mustard is incredibly easy to make at home. This is the recipe I use, courtesy of Alton Brown.

Ingredients
1/4 cup dry mustard powder
2 teaspoons light brown sugar
1 teaspoon kosher salt
1/2 teaspoon turmeric
1/4 teaspoon paprika
1/4 teaspoon garlic powder
1/2 cup sweet pickle juice
1/4 cup water
1/2 cup cider vinegar
1/4 cup mustard seed

Directions
In a small, microwave-proof bowl whisk together the dry mustard, brown sugar, salt, turmeric, paprika and garlic powder. In a separate container, combine the pickle juice, water and cider vinegar and have standing by. Place the mustard seed into a spice grinder and grind for a minimum of 1 minute, stopping to pulse occasionally. Once ground, immediately add the mustard to the bowl with the dry ingredients and add the liquid mixture. Whisk to combine. Place the bowl into the microwave and heat on high for 1 minute. Remove from the microwave and puree with a stick blender for 1 minute. Pour into a glass jar or container and allow to cool uncovered. Once cool, cover and store in the refrigerator for up to 1 month.

I keep it in a plastic squeeze bottle.

agthorn

"... is a cleaning agent, food additive, stain remover and degreaser..."

Regular table salt (sodium chloride) is also a very good degreaser.

questionablemethods

Mustard is incredibly easy to make at home.

I'm sure it is. So is salsa. Those just aren't things I choose to make at home at the moment. But thanks for the recipe!

elenaninaje

It seems that cereals is the most commonly listed food in breakfast, but do you know what ingredients are used in cereals? You may have read the ingredients label and noticed some ingredients that do not look like they belong in the cereal we eat, and one of them is the trisodium phosphate.

Then you may have the questions about this doubtful stuff in your food.

First, what is trisodium phosphate?

Trisodium Phosphate is the inorganic compound Na3PO4, also known as TSP, trisodium orthophosphate or simply sodium phosphate. It is a white, granular or crystalline solid and mostly come in form of white powder.

Trisodium phosphate can serve as a food additive (E339) and can also be found in daily consumer products such as toothpastes, dental cleansers, shampoos, cosmetics, and bleaching agents. As a nutritional supplement, TSP can also improve performance in sports players.

Why is trisodium phosphate used in cereal?

Trisodium phosphate can act as the acidity regulator and reduce the acid nature of the food and can always be found in in dry and extruded cereals. It can also modify the cereal color and aid in the cereal’s flow through the extruder. When used with other phosphates, it can help provide phosphorus fortification. And TSP can also be used as an emulsifier in cheese.

Is trisodium phosphate in cereal safe?

Since trisodium phosphate is widely used in food industry such as fruit drinks, dairy product, canned foods, meat, kids cereals and cheese, the safety issue and side effects of STP are concerned by more and more people.

The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists sodium phosphates as "generally recognized as safe." The FDA allows TSP in our food and personal care products and it is not a risk in certain amounts.

The use of TSP in food is also clearly defined according to the Chinese hygienic standard. For the canned foods, juice drinks, dairy products and vegetable protein beverages, the maximum use is 0.5 grams per kilogram; for meat, the maximum quantity is 3.0 grams per kilogram; for cheese, the maximum amount is 5.0 grams per kilogram; for drinks, the maximum use is 1.5 grams per kilogram.

TSP will become alkaline when it is dissolved in water, therefore, excessive dosage in food will not only destroy the nutrients in the food but also endanger health. TSP as a food additive has not been proven to be toxic to humans, and the reasonable use of TSP is safe.

Alatariel75

elenaninaje wrote: »

It seems that cereals is the most commonly listed food in breakfast, but do you know what ingredients are used in cereals? You may have read the ingredients label and noticed some ingredients that do not look like they belong in the cereal we eat, and one of them is the trisodium phosphate.

Then you may have the questions about this doubtful stuff in your food.

First, what is trisodium phosphate?

Trisodium Phosphate is the inorganic compound Na3PO4, also known as TSP, trisodium orthophosphate or simply sodium phosphate. It is a white, granular or crystalline solid and mostly come in form of white powder.

Trisodium phosphate can serve as a food additive (E339) and can also be found in daily consumer products such as toothpastes, dental cleansers, shampoos, cosmetics, and bleaching agents. As a nutritional supplement, TSP can also improve performance in sports players.

Why is trisodium phosphate used in cereal?

Trisodium phosphate can act as the acidity regulator and reduce the acid nature of the food and can always be found in in dry and extruded cereals. It can also modify the cereal color and aid in the cereal’s flow through the extruder. When used with other phosphates, it can help provide phosphorus fortification. And TSP can also be used as an emulsifier in cheese.

Is trisodium phosphate in cereal safe?

Since trisodium phosphate is widely used in food industry such as fruit drinks, dairy product, canned foods, meat, kids cereals and cheese, the safety issue and side effects of STP are concerned by more and more people.

The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists sodium phosphates as "generally recognized as safe." The FDA allows TSP in our food and personal care products and it is not a risk in certain amounts.

The use of TSP in food is also clearly defined according to the Chinese hygienic standard. For the canned foods, juice drinks, dairy products and vegetable protein beverages, the maximum use is 0.5 grams per kilogram; for meat, the maximum quantity is 3.0 grams per kilogram; for cheese, the maximum amount is 5.0 grams per kilogram; for drinks, the maximum use is 1.5 grams per kilogram.

TSP will become alkaline when it is dissolved in water, therefore, excessive dosage in food will not only destroy the nutrients in the food but also endanger health. TSP as a food additive has not been proven to be toxic to humans, and the reasonable use of TSP is safe.

When copy/pasting from the internet to bump a 6 year old thread, it is polite to cite your sources:

https://www.okchem.com/news/trisodium-phosphate-cereal.html

ssbbg

tolygal wrote: »

I didn't know that " Trisodium phosphate is a simple inorganic salt." I searched it on the web, and read several pages, all of which basically told me the same seemingly alarming things, but none of them said this basic information. So, I assumed that it could be some chemical that was potentially harmful to my family. Now I understand what it is and I'm no longer concerned about it.

The statement " Trisodium phosphate is a simple inorganic salt." is essentially useless and it should not relieve your concerns. It is factually correct, but it tells you nothing about the safety of the chemical. Lead chloride is a simple inorganic salt also, but it would be hazardous to ingest. You'd likely end up poisoned.

I'm not saying you should be concerned about TSP. But you shouldn't dismiss your concerns because someone said a phrase that sounds good, "simple inorganic salt", that you don't fully understand.

I don't think TSP is especially dangerous based on what I know of chemistry (I've got a Ph.D. in Chem) and what I see in a simple google search. But I'm not basing my decision on the fact that it is a simple inorganic salt.

I'm not sure what to suggest as a reference for you to look up information about chemicals. When I looked for TSP I didn't find any source that was particularly strong. All the sites, both pro and con, that I looked at lacked generally lacked citations to scientific data. But when you are searching, you want to find citations/footnotes to scientific articles in peer-reviewed journals for the most credible evidence. If there is a footnote, then you can google "is name of magazine/journal peer-reviewed" and that should tell you. Peer review means other scientists read the paper before it was published and think the methods of the experiment and the conclusions drawn are likely to be correct in their opinion. It isn't a perfect method but it is some level of fact-checking.

The other thing that you can look for is if the United States FDA classifies something as "GRAS" or generally regarded as safe. What this means is that the chemical has been around for so long (since before 1958) that it is assumed to be safe because if it were dangerous then there would be lots of people who were sick OR has been highly tested and the test results reviewed by the FDA. This isn't perfect either, but it is a starting point. (EU and other regions also have similar regulatory bodies that you can rely on, but I'm US based and am not sure what to recommend you should look for.)

For BHT- BHT is an anti-oxidant widely used in foods as a preservative. I've used it in lab, then happily gone and chewed gum containing it. But you shouldn't really accept my word on it either. I've given you no hard proof of safety.