Am I Wrong?
Replies
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I dunno... I imagine Jesus preferring that everyone get together in peace and unity than offending some just to make a point.
^^^^^^I agree0 -
I know it isn't Christ's date of birth. I know more than the average bear about how it came to be on that date, but that part is not at issue. Christmas has become more and more secular.
But I find it very puzzling that some from the secular crowd are finding it offensive that religion is (STILL!) a part of this religious celebration.
I'm very live-and-let-live, and an important part of who I want to be is someone who is respectful of that which others hold sacred. Evicting Jesus from Christmas doesn't seem respectful towards those who hold it sacred.
I understand your point, but having a non-religious children's party isn't "evicting Jesus from Christmas". I have been to lots of Christmas parties and none of them had a "Happy Birthday Jesus" cake.0 -
Folks, she's not telling the lady not to have a party in her own home. Unless I'm mistaken, it's a community party. The admins choose how they want to go about things, and aren't about to pull religion into it. Folks can celebrate religiously in their homes or places of worship. Nobody is preventing anyone else from exercising their right to worship, and nobody is obligated to go to the community party.
I celebrate Christmas as a celebration of the birth and life of Jesus Christ, but do not expect everyone else to.0 -
You made the right decision and handled it appropriately. This woman obviously had 'converting' other peoples children into christians on her mind....not a 'holiday party'. Quite frankly...she sounded like a nut job.0
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As its spokesperson, I would always fall back on whatever the group's official policy is. Do you have one on this particular issue?
If not, then she could have called it a Christmas party, right? And she could have used any cake she wanted. She would then have had to deal with the consequences (i.e. the parents' reactions.) Then it would have been her problem. Sounds like she was looking to cause a fuss. Why would anyone even ask about a cake?
You brought this argument on yourself if there are no written guidelines in your Condo's CCRs or bylaws. You can now address this at the next meeting.0 -
yes, not because of anything you did or said. But because you work for an HOA.
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I suspect that the cake is an attempt to make a point. Lame tactic.
I understand your point, but having a non-religious children's party isn't "evicting Jesus from Christmas". I have been to lots of Christmas parties and none of them had a "Happy Birthday Jesus" cake.I know it isn't Christ's date of birth. I know more than the average bear about how it came to be on that date, but that part is not at issue. Christmas has become more and more secular.
But I find it very puzzling that some from the secular crowd are finding it offensive that religion is (STILL!) a part of this religious celebration.
I'm very live-and-let-live, and an important part of who I want to be is someone who is respectful of that which others hold sacred. Evicting Jesus from Christmas doesn't seem respectful towards those who hold it sacred.0 -
I know it isn't Christ's date of birth. I know more than the average bear about how it came to be on that date, but that part is not at issue. Christmas has become more and more secular.
But I find it very puzzling that some from the secular crowd are finding it offensive that religion is (STILL!) a part of this religious celebration.
I'm very live-and-let-live, and an important part of who I want to be is someone who is respectful of that which others hold sacred. Evicting Jesus from Christmas doesn't seem respectful towards those who hold it sacred.
I understand your point, but having a non-religious children's party isn't "evicting Jesus from Christmas". I have been to lots of Christmas parties and none of them had a "Happy Birthday Jesus" cake.
I've also never seen a Happy Birthday Jesus cake. If we are having a non-religious childrens party, super duper! A cake about Jesus would not be appropriate, for sure.
The point I'm making is I find it very weird when people still wish to call it "Christmas," then go out of their way to make sure there are NO religious references in the hoopla. That seems very weird to me. The comparison I make is the 4th of July. If I went around telling people that all the American flags are offensive because the holiday is about FIREWORKS! That would be similarly bizarre, to my way of thinking.0 -
No, you were definately not wrong. I'm also a Christian and CHristmas is 100% about the birth of Jesus for me...however I also realize that it's not that for everyone and it's especially not appropriate to try and push it on children. While I think her heart may have originally been in the right place as wanting to bring the kids together and celebrate something she cherishes so much, she is going about it all the wrong way.
Yeah what she said.0 -
Maybe I don't know how condo associations work, but I'm assuming there's a public (rentable?) space that people can use? Unless the tenant was specifically asking for sponsorship (money, time, or a name), I don't see why the association would have anything to say about it. Would the tenant not have the right to rent the space, advertise it as a Christmas party for the children of the community, and then decorate it however they wanted to?
As long as the tenant follows the association rules, it seems like a freedom of speech issue to me. Of course, that goes out the window if she was asking for sponsorship from the association.
Again, I'm not sure how condo associations work, so I may be way off base.
The club House is not rented out for owner or renter. Yes she is requesting money/company time/Staff Help. Owners for this property has voted not to have the club house rented out for several reasons. I have been working here about a year and it has never been rented out to anyone. But we have a couple parties a year to get the residents together. She wants to have this event not just for her family but the children in this community. There are more foreigners then American on this property. We have also had problems in the past with Christ being involved in Holidays.0 -
You weren't wrong.0
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yes, not because of anything you did or said. But because you work for an HOA.
LOL0 -
I know it isn't Christ's date of birth. I know more than the average bear about how it came to be on that date, but that part is not at issue. Christmas has become more and more secular.
But I find it very puzzling that some from the secular crowd are finding it offensive that religion is (STILL!) a part of this religious celebration.
I'm very live-and-let-live, and an important part of who I want to be is someone who is respectful of that which others hold sacred. Evicting Jesus from Christmas doesn't seem respectful towards those who hold it sacred.
I understand your point, but having a non-religious children's party isn't "evicting Jesus from Christmas". I have been to lots of Christmas parties and none of them had a "Happy Birthday Jesus" cake.
I've also never seen a Happy Birthday Jesus cake. If we are having a non-religious childrens party, super duper! A cake about Jesus would not be appropriate, for sure.
The point I'm making is I find it very weird when people still wish to call it "Christmas," then go out of their way to make sure there are NO religious references in the hoopla. That seems very weird to me. The comparison I make is the 4th of July. If I went around telling people that all the American flags are offensive because the holiday is about FIREWORKS! That would be similarly bizarre, to my way of thinking.
I know. I see your point. Maybe I'm biased because when I was a child, my dad's company always put on a Christmas party for the children of employees, and there was never anything religious about it, so a secular party for what is a huge religious holiday seems somehow normal to me.
Like I said, I do see what you're saying. If there is no Christ then it isn't really a Christmas party. It's a holiday party.0 -
As its spokesperson, I would always fall back on whatever the group's official policy is. Do you have one on this particular issue?
If not, then she could have called it a Christmas party, right? And she could have used any cake she wanted. She would then have had to deal with the consequences (i.e. the parents' reactions.) Then it would have been her problem. Sounds like she was looking to cause a fuss. Why would anyone even ask about a cake?
You brought this argument on yourself if there are no written guidelines in your Condo's CCRs or bylaws. You can now address this at the next meeting.
I wish it was the simple but when dealing condo association one bad move can have an owner try to recall the board to be removed.0 -
I understand the politically correctness about religion and politics, and why such a thing exists .. What I can't understand is why there is an argument when it comes to any event related to Christmas. THAT one totally baffles me. Christmas is and has always been about the birth of Christ .. the basis of Christian belief. I am confused as to why so many want to be part of any celebration around 'that time of year' when they refuse any iconic representation of Christendom because it is not their own.
Someone please explain that to me .. I am baffled.
Would it be fitting to disallow an Easter Egg hunt for the kiddies at Easter because Easter is a Christian based holiday?
I'm thinking, if the masses want to remove all suggestive iconic reprsentations of Christmas or or even Easter .. they should rename those holidays with something like .. "Jumpintodebt2buypresents" Day or "Eattoomanychocolateeggsandspew" Day.0 -
The word Christmas originated as a compound meaning "Christ's Mass".I've also never seen a Happy Birthday Jesus cake. If we are having a non-religious childrens party, super duper! A cake about Jesus would not be appropriate, for sure.
The point I'm making is I find it very weird when people still wish to call it "Christmas," then go out of their way to make sure there are NO religious references in the hoopla. That seems very weird to me. The comparison I make is the 4th of July. If I went around telling people that all the American flags are offensive because the holiday is about FIREWORKS! That would be similarly bizarre, to my way of thinking.0 -
I understand the politically correctness about religion and politics, and why such a thing exists .. What I can't understand is why there is an argument when it comes to any event related to Christmas. THAT one totally baffles me. Christmas is and has always been about the birth of Christ .. the basis of Christian belief. I am confused as to why so many want to be part of any celebration around 'that time of year' when they refuse any iconic representation of Christendom because it is not their own.
Someone please explain that to me .. I am baffled.
PRESENTS!0 -
WARM FUZZIES!
PRESENTS!I understand the politically correctness about religion and politics, and why such a thing exists .. What I can't understand is why there is an argument when it comes to any event related to Christmas. THAT one totally baffles me. Christmas is and has always been about the birth of Christ .. the basis of Christian belief. I am confused as to why so many want to be part of any celebration around 'that time of year' when they refuse any iconic representation of Christendom because it is not their own.
Someone please explain that to me .. I am baffled.0 -
WARM FUZZIES!
PRESENTS!I understand the politically correctness about religion and politics, and why such a thing exists .. What I can't understand is why there is an argument when it comes to any event related to Christmas. THAT one totally baffles me. Christmas is and has always been about the birth of Christ .. the basis of Christian belief. I am confused as to why so many want to be part of any celebration around 'that time of year' when they refuse any iconic representation of Christendom because it is not their own.
Someone please explain that to me .. I am baffled.
SANTA!0 -
precisely!
The word Christmas originated as a compound meaning "Christ's Mass".I've also never seen a Happy Birthday Jesus cake. If we are having a non-religious childrens party, super duper! A cake about Jesus would not be appropriate, for sure.
The point I'm making is I find it very weird when people still wish to call it "Christmas," then go out of their way to make sure there are NO religious references in the hoopla. That seems very weird to me. The comparison I make is the 4th of July. If I went around telling people that all the American flags are offensive because the holiday is about FIREWORKS! That would be similarly bizarre, to my way of thinking.
Merry Christmas, everybody, and Happy Solstice too
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You were absolutely not wrong. Clearly she had more of an ulterior motive than it being about the children.0
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I understand the politically correctness about religion and politics, and why such a thing exists .. What I can't understand is why there is an argument when it comes to any event related to Christmas. THAT one totally baffles me. Christmas is and has always been about the birth of Christ .. the basis of Christian belief. I am confused as to why so many want to be part of any celebration around 'that time of year' when they refuse any iconic representation of Christendom because it is not their own.
Someone please explain that to me .. I am baffled.
Would it be fitting to disallow an Easter Egg hunt for the kiddies at Easter because Easter is a Christian based holiday?
I'm thinking, if the masses want to remove all suggestive iconic reprsentations of Christmas or or even Easter .. they should rename those holidays with something like .. "Jumpintodebt2buypresents" Day or "Eattoomanychocolateeggsandspew" Day.
I love the new names you came up with!!! :laugh:0 -
I suggest at least a two hour party..
Draw straws to select which order the different styles will be represented, so no one cries "how come they were first?" etc.
The evening could go like this...and everyone would be enriched somehow..
7:00 - 7:30 - Hannukah
7:30 - 8:00 - Kwanza
8:00 - 8:30 - Christmas
8:30 - 9:00 - Festivus....for the rest of us! :drinker:
Or chuck it all and just call it ChristmaKwanzukah :bigsmile:0 -
I think every point that could possibly be made about why you were not wrong has been made. I agree with many of them.
Christmas trees = Pagan *confetti*
Can we discuss Easter now?
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It sounds like this lady wanted to have a "Mass Conversion" party. lol
Seriously though, I've NEVER seen a "Happy Birthday Jesus" cake, ever. And I went to every church in the town I grew up in (My dad was one of those parents who let you figure out religion on your own - long story on that).
In any event, a holiday party for tenants is a nice idea so people can network, socialize, kids can make new friends, etc.... It could be a nice potluck/recipe exchange opportunity, maybe have some games for the kids - but you've mentioned several times that there is a large diverse group of people - you did the right thing by suggesting to simple and leave the religious aspect out of it.
I don't push my beliefs on anyone. I would be livid if I attended a party and someone was trying to shove their beliefs down my throat.
As for the crying, my sister does that nonsense when she doesn't get her way. It's a manipulation tactic that some people use when they don't get their way. Boof*ckinhoo, go cry to someone who cares! LOL0 -
Because Christmas has become a cultural event to some, even if it isn't a religious one to them. What I don't get is why it's so bothersome? Why do you care if they call it "Christmas" or "Festivus?" They're not worshiping Christ with it, in that context, and while I DO worship Christ on Christmas, I also celebrate in a CULTURAL way, by doing things like taking my kids to tree lighting ceremonies that have nothing to do with Jesus.I understand the politically correctness about religion and politics, and why such a thing exists .. What I can't understand is why there is an argument when it comes to any event related to Christmas. THAT one totally baffles me. Christmas is and has always been about the birth of Christ .. the basis of Christian belief. I am confused as to why so many want to be part of any celebration around 'that time of year' when they refuse any iconic representation of Christendom because it is not their own.
Someone please explain that to me .. I am baffled.
I mean, I get if that offends you for some reason, but I don't get finding it baffling. How is it confusing? People grew up with it and have great memories of it, and want to do Santa, and take the reason to give gifts to family & friends even if they don't believe in Christ. I still eat latkes even though I'm not Jewish.0 -
Actually, no, let me put it another way-- am I a bad Christian for putting up a Christmas tree? That is a PAGAN tradition, borrowed by Christians. NOW it has become a cultural thing. Is it OK for me to celebrate that cultural thing, even though I'm not the religion that started it?
If a bunch of Pagans got bent out of shape that I was using their tree tradition, I'd think they were ridiculously oversensitive.0 -
Spot on.Actually, no, let me put it another way-- am I a bad Christian for putting up a Christmas tree? That is a PAGAN tradition, borrowed by Christians. NOW it has become a cultural thing. Is it OK for me to celebrate that cultural thing, even though I'm not the religion that started it?
If a bunch of Pagans got bent out of shape that I was using their tree tradition, I'd think they were ridiculously oversensitive.0 -
It sounds like this lady wanted to have a "Mass Conversion" party. lol
Seriously though, I've NEVER seen a "Happy Birthday Jesus" cake, ever. And I went to every church in the town I grew up in (My dad was one of those parents who let you figure out religion on your own - long story on that).
In any event, a holiday party for tenants is a nice idea so people can network, socialize, kids can make new friends, etc.... It could be a nice potluck/recipe exchange opportunity, maybe have some games for the kids - but you've mentioned several times that there is a large diverse group of people - you did the right thing by suggesting to simple and leave the religious aspect out of it.
I don't push my beliefs on anyone. I would be livid if I attended a party and someone was trying to shove their beliefs down my throat.
As for the crying, my sister does that nonsense when she doesn't get her way. It's a manipulation tactic that some people use when they don't get their way. Boof*ckinhoo, go cry to someone who cares! LOL
Crying is not always a predermined manipulation tactic .. for some .. yes, it most certainly is .. a learned skill .... just ask the professional .. any 3 or 4 year old.
In THIS instance, it's hard to judge as to why the waterworks. Could be an emotional outburst due to frustration, who knows? Sounds like this lady had her heart in the right place, but may have found it to be extremely disapointing when she was told it was an inapropriate place. Only God knows...Pun intended.
I doubt if, even in this case, anything would be shoved down anyones's throat so to speak. I would assume it would have been an open invitation to a Christmas .. repeat CHRISTMAS party. If anyone is so inclined, they are more than welcome to attend, if not .. that is again .. a matter of choice. It wasn't like this event was being planned to 'spring' onto anyone...like an intervention.0 -
To me, a "Happy Birthday Jesus" cake just sounds completely ridiclous and makes me snicker to myself. I think you did the right thing.0
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