Tired of the myths--how do you get accurate info?
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I see some people saying they seek the advice of skinny people on how to lose weight. In what universe does that make sense? LOL
Using that sort of thinking...I should ask the next skinny crack addict how they lost weight and manage to keep it off? :laugh:
Would it make more sense if they were fat before they used crack to lose weight?
:drinker: :laugh:0 -
Great question.
Frankly, I listen to my weight loss doc--which is not an option for everyone, however, you could certainly start with a visit to the GP and ask for a referral to a nutritionist. The mayo clinic site it good too.
Here's what I don't do, and which you seem to have caught a clue about: I don't ask for or listen to nutritional advice from other folks who aren't experts in nutrition and/or whose advice is in direct conflict with something my doctor told me or which I know to be nutritionally unsound...
I agree with some of your points but I don't share your faith in nutritionists and doctors. By all means have your doctor review your blood work etc. but many doctors don't know squat about nutrition. Nutritionists yes, a little better, but I've found plenty who are mired in dogma and just don't read the research. I've seen it mentioned that it can take 10 years for clinical research to reach doctors in the field and actually be applied, I'm not blaming them for being behind, but I also am extremely skeptical of relying on someone just because they have a few credentials.
Yes, this! My weight loss doc is a great surgeon, but when it comes to the nutritional aspect - not so much. When i hit a plateau a few months back and we reviewed what i was doing, he advised me to cut my calories to 800 a day. When i reminded him how much i work out, and told him i'd pass out eating that little, he told me to work out less. In what world does it make sense to work out less in order to be able to eat less? Not mine.
It's true, not every medico is all that nutritionally savvy. My doc definitely is savvy in this area. I can't complain about a 127 pound weight loss he got me to, and has helped me keep off for over a year. All this said, I still stick by the idea that listening to nutritional advice from random folks on the internet isn't a great idea.0 -
Trial and error + common sense. Works for me (and not only for weight loss).0
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I saw a quote on here once that said "if you want to be thin, live like a thin person" (or something close to that). But if you've always been overweight you may not know how to live like a thin person. In which case, asking a thin person how they stay thin makes as much sense as asking another fat person how they lost weight. There is an equal chance that either answer will (or will not) work for you.
Well, obviously I don't agree with the live like a thin person quote. I know plenty of thin people who eat way more than I do and I would never lose weight eating the way they do. It's quite possible my metabolic situation is completely different being overweight than it is for a person who is a normal body weight and that's not even considering individual variation. Essentially, the process of maintaining a normal weight may be completely different to losing a lot of weight regardless of our own individual metabolisms.
I think a formerly fat person who has lost a lot of weight will have more to offer than a thin person who has never had to think about it. That's a generalization of course to which there are exceptions.0 -
It's true, not every medico is all that nutritionally savvy. My doc definitely is savvy in this area. I can't complain about a 127 pound weight loss he got me to, and has helped me keep off for over a year. All this said, I still stick by the idea that listening to nutritional advice from random folks on the internet isn't a great idea.
Of course, there is a lot of garbage to sift through, trial and error + common sense as another poster mentioned is a good approach. I also expect anyone making claims to back it up with some peer reviewed studies. Basically, people should apply their BS meter.
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Common sense. Don't sweat the details.0
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It's true, not every medico is all that nutritionally savvy. My doc definitely is savvy in this area. I can't complain about a 127 pound weight loss he got me to, and has helped me keep off for over a year. All this said, I still stick by the idea that listening to nutritional advice from random folks on the internet isn't a great idea.
Of course, there is a lot of garbage to sift through, trial and error + common sense as another poster mentioned is a good approach. I also expect anyone making claims to back it up with some peer reviewed studies. Basically, people should apply their BS meter.
right on! Totally agree!0 -
Trial and error + common sense. Works for me (and not only for weight loss).
Took the words right out of my mouth!
If I'm getting the results I want, I stick with it. If I'm not, I'll mix it up.0 -
Of course, there is a lot of garbage to sift through, trial and error + common sense as another poster mentioned is a good approach. I also expect anyone making claims to back it up with some peer reviewed studies. Basically, people should apply their BS meter.
Personally I hate when people try to back up claims with peer reviewed studies. On just about any nutrition or exercise subject you can think of, there have been hundreds and sometimes thousands of studies. What does one or two or five studies prove, when there is a whole ocean of evidence that needs to be wieghed to get to the truth?0 -
Of course, there is a lot of garbage to sift through, trial and error + common sense as another poster mentioned is a good approach. I also expect anyone making claims to back it up with some peer reviewed studies. Basically, people should apply their BS meter.
Personally I hate when people try to back up claims with peer reviewed studies. On just about any nutrition or exercise subject you can think of, there have been hundreds and sometimes thousands of studies. What does one or two or five studies prove, when there is a whole ocean of evidence that needs to be wieghed to get to the truth?
yeah screw peer reviewed science.
personally i'd take a handful of well designed, peer reviewed studies over a hundred ill designed studies anyday0 -
Personally I hate when people try to back up claims with peer reviewed studies.
This explains a lot.0 -
Of course, there is a lot of garbage to sift through, trial and error + common sense as another poster mentioned is a good approach. I also expect anyone making claims to back it up with some peer reviewed studies. Basically, people should apply their BS meter.
Personally I hate when people try to back up claims with peer reviewed studies. On just about any nutrition or exercise subject you can think of, there have been hundreds and sometimes thousands of studies. What does one or two or five studies prove, when there is a whole ocean of evidence that needs to be wieghed to get to the truth?
yeah screw peer reviewed science.
personally i'd take a handful of well designed, peer reviewed studies over a hundred ill designed studies anyday
My point is that there are hundreds or thousands of peer reviewed studies. Unless you post them all and I take the time to read and analyze them all, what good are the few that a MFP poster picks out to make a point?
You are not seriously suggesting that when MFP posters provide links to studies that they ever include ALL the peer reviewed studies on the given subject are you?0 -
Personally I hate when people try to back up claims with peer reviewed studies.
This explains a lot.
That I don't like cherries?0 -
My point is that there are hundreds or thousands of peer reviewed studies. Unless you post them all and I take the time to read and analyze them all, what good are the few that a MFP poster picks out to make a point?
that assuming the studies are controlled and well designed the poster is not simply talking out of his *kitten* like many do and there is at least research to back up their point. Maybe we should just base someone's claims on their physique like i've seen mentioned in other threads or maybe if it's Dr Oz or Jillian approved it must be true?0 -
My point is that there are hundreds or thousands of peer reviewed studies. Unless you post them all and I take the time to read and analyze them all, what good are the few that a MFP poster picks out to make a point?
that assuming the studies are controlled and well designed the poster is not simply talking out of his *kitten* like many do and there is at least research to back up their point. Maybe we should just base someone's claims on their physique like i've seen mentioned in other threads or maybe if it's Dr Oz or Jillian approved it must be true?
Those are all pretty popular and I have no proof that they are wrong. But I choose to look at medical and scientific professionals who have conducted and reviewed the studies for advice because they are the most versed on the subjects. Call me crazy, but I believe that people who spend their lives in the pursuit of this evidence we all crave have a better knowledge base than the random Joe surfing the net, even if it is pubmed, even if their head is not in their *kitten*.0 -
Personally I hate when people try to back up claims with peer reviewed studies.
I hate it when they haven't actually read the study they use as evidence...0 -
My point is that there are hundreds or thousands of peer reviewed studies. Unless you post them all and I take the time to read and analyze them all, what good are the few that a MFP poster picks out to make a point?
that assuming the studies are controlled and well designed the poster is not simply talking out of his *kitten* like many do and there is at least research to back up their point. Maybe we should just base someone's claims on their physique like i've seen mentioned in other threads or maybe if it's Dr Oz or Jillian approved it must be true?
Couldn't agree more. I would take a peer reviewed study over "im ripped and i say this" or "Jillian says..." any day.0 -
Personally I hate when people try to back up claims with peer reviewed studies.
This explains a lot.
That I don't like cherries?
Nice comeback...lol. Then again, Walter Willett isn't really known/respected for un-biased science.
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My point is that there are hundreds or thousands of peer reviewed studies. Unless you post them all and I take the time to read and analyze them all, what good are the few that a MFP poster picks out to make a point?
that assuming the studies are controlled and well designed the poster is not simply talking out of his *kitten* like many do and there is at least research to back up their point. Maybe we should just base someone's claims on their physique like i've seen mentioned in other threads or maybe if it's Dr Oz or Jillian approved it must be true?
Agreed.
To some other posters, there are thousands of peer reviewed studies, but if you drill down to more specific areas there are not always that many. I'm sorry if it's difficult to determine the truth but that makes it no less incorrect to base your approach on something less rigorous. At LEAST if the poster provides links to research you can read it and refute his/her claims with other studies or point out flaws in it's design. This is the best process we have for determining the truth, as fallible as it may be. Also, the problem with relying on those who spend their lives in this area is that there is no guarantee they read the studies either. Sure, there are those that do, but it's difficult to determine who they are without understanding some of the literature yourself.0 -
Great question.
Frankly, I listen to my weight loss doc--which is not an option for everyone, however, you could certainly start with a visit to the GP and ask for a referral to a nutritionist. The mayo clinic site it good too.
Here's what I don't do, and which you seem to have caught a clue about: I don't ask for or listen to nutritional advice from other folks who aren't experts in nutrition and/or whose advice is in direct conflict with something my doctor told me or which I know to be nutritionally unsound
I also don't give specific advice on nutrition because...I'm not an expert and don't know the nuances of any one individual's needs. Knowing what's right for me is not knowing what is right for someone else so I keep that in mind when talking about nutrition!
I agree with some of your points but I don't share your faith in nutritionists and doctors. By all means have your doctor review your blood work etc. but many doctors don't know squat about nutrition. Nutritionists yes, a little better, but I've found plenty who are mired in dogma and just don't read the research. I've seen it mentioned that it can take 10 years for clinical research to reach doctors in the field and actually be applied, I'm not blaming them for being behind, but I also am extremely skeptical of relying on someone just because they have a few credentials.
Yes, this! My weight loss doc is a great surgeon, but when it comes to the nutritional aspect - not so much. When i hit a plateau a few months back and we reviewed what i was doing, he advised me to cut my calories to 800 a day. When i reminded him how much i work out, and told him i'd pass out eating that little, he told me to work out less. In what world does it make sense to work out less in order to be able to eat less? Not mine.
Thank you! I posted a thread on this the other day and got some odd responses. Then again, what did I expect, really. Everyone's different.0 -
Bump.0
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Trial and error. Give what you believe in a chance and if it fails, never turn back.
[/quote
I follow the trial and error method too.0 -
My point is that there are hundreds or thousands of peer reviewed studies. Unless you post them all and I take the time to read and analyze them all, what good are the few that a MFP poster picks out to make a point?
that assuming the studies are controlled and well designed the poster is not simply talking out of his *kitten* like many do and there is at least research to back up their point. Maybe we should just base someone's claims on their physique like i've seen mentioned in other threads or maybe if it's Dr Oz or Jillian approved it must be true?
Agreed.
To some other posters, there are thousands of peer reviewed studies, but if you drill down to more specific areas there are not always that many. I'm sorry if it's difficult to determine the truth but that makes it no less incorrect to base your approach on something less rigorous. At LEAST if the poster provides links to research you can read it and refute his/her claims with other studies or point out flaws in it's design. This is the best process we have for determining the truth, as fallible as it may be. Also, the problem with relying on those who spend their lives in this area is that there is no guarantee they read the studies either. Sure, there are those that do, but it's difficult to determine who they are without understanding some of the literature yourself.
Good stuff.
It's also difficult to determine where the funding is coming from. Special interest groups keep changing their names, research $ are sometimes hard to come by, and so on. After being kicked out of 2 studies for no longer fitting the criteria (I wasn't getting the results they were looking for) I like to read the studies but don't take them as seriously as I once did.
I like listening to acg, he does the research and can point you in the right direction. 0 -
Trial and error. Give what you believe in a chance and if it fails, never turn back.
[/quote
I follow the trial and error method too.
I like, but from personal experience I can tell you that what might have worked for me last year/month/week doesn't always mean it will continue to work for me. Sometimes "turning back" works.
My body changes constantly in it's needs. 0 -
I like, but from personal experience I can tell you that what might have worked for me last year/month/week doesn't always mean it will continue to work for me. Sometimes "turning back" works.
My body changes constantly in it's needs.
Yep, this is a good point. This is why I track carefully, I can look back at what I was doing 6 months ago and try that approach again fairly accurately. I wish I could just follow some diet plan and lose consistently but yet homeostasis kicks in and I find I need to try another approach, vary my intake, change workout routines etc.0 -
Good stuff.
It's also difficult to determine where the funding is coming from. Special interest groups keep changing their names, research $ are sometimes hard to come by, and so on. After being kicked out of 2 studies for no longer fitting the criteria (I wasn't getting the results they were looking for) I like to read the studies but don't take them as seriously as I once did.
I like listening to acg, he does the research and can point you in the right direction.
Yeah, in some ways the process is broken, I'm concerned where much of the funding is coming from, the ease at which results can be skewed and so on. A careful analysis can highlight these issues but it obfuscates things and confuses the hell out of people. Plenty of irresponsible journalism involved as well. Also, I think people fail to appreciate that progress in science as in many things is based on the accumulation of failures, theories are formulated and dis-proven. Many a beautiful theory has been destroyed by an ugly fact, the science of nutrition is no different but yet it's uniquely personal and so it sells newspapers so we end up in the current confusing quagmire that inspired this thread.0 -
Personally I hate when people try to back up claims with peer reviewed studies.
This explains a lot.
That I don't like cherries?
Nice comeback...lol. Then again, Walter Willett isn't really known/respected for un-biased science.
No, none of those idiots at Harvard are.0 -
Personally I hate when people try to back up claims with peer reviewed studies.
This explains a lot.
That I don't like cherries?
Nice comeback...lol. Then again, Walter Willett isn't really known/respected for un-biased science.
No, none of those idiots at Harvard are.
ah so all docs and researchers from Harvard are free from bias?0 -
Personally I hate when people try to back up claims with peer reviewed studies.
This explains a lot.
That I don't like cherries?
Nice comeback...lol. Then again, Walter Willett isn't really known/respected for un-biased science.
No, none of those idiots at Harvard are.
ah so all docs and researchers from Harvard are free from bias?
Dunno. I haven't met them all.0
This discussion has been closed.
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