How late is too late to eat?

LabRat529

Hi,

Sorry but I agree with leanmean. I've just started to diet bey my doctor and we had a long discussion about my eating habits. he pointed out That I ate little all daywhen I was busy so burned it off storage(which is harder to do) then pigged out in the evening while sat watvching tv, burning nothing off and just allowing it to turn bac k into surplus. I could not understand why my weight was going up, over the day I didn't eat a ridiculous amoun, just at the wrong times. Checked it out on google and can't find any Reliable source to confirm it as a myth, A few state theer is no evidence but most medical sources agree eating before you can burn it off before sleep is not good. This appears to be backed up by the incidence of obesity in shift workers whose eating habits ldont conform to standard patterns eg going home from the night shift having a full fry up then going to bed for 5 or 6 hours, many then get up around 12, stay up till teatime and after tea go to bed for a couple of hours before going to work. Makes sense to me

This has nothing to do with WHEN people eat. It has everything to do with HOW MUCH they eat. Absolutely, if you eat very little for a 8 to 12 hour period, you're famished by the end of that period and it's very easy to over-eat and over-shoot your maintenance calories by a lot, especially if you engage in mindless eating in front of the TV). You'd do this whether you went right to bed or stayed awake.

CaptainGordo

The whole idea is ludicrous.

Why do people believe that some metabolic processes occur during sleep (digestion, fat storage, etc), but others don't (fat burning)?

It's the little elves in my body. They flip a switch when I go to bed.

You eat ELVES before bed?!?!

now that would disrupt sleep patterns

Is this a new Elf Cleanse I haven't heart about? Are the elves pregnant or will any old elf do?

Fools! Don't you know that we all have little elves inside that regulate our bodily functions? There are metabolism elves, heartbeat elves, poop-pushing elves (it's a really ****ty job), all kinds of elves.

RonSwanson66

The whole idea is ludicrous.

Why do people believe that some metabolic processes occur during sleep (digestion, fat storage, etc), but others don't (fat burning)?

It's the little elves in my body. They flip a switch when I go to bed.

You eat ELVES before bed?!?!

now that would disrupt sleep patterns

Is this a new Elf Cleanse I haven't heart about? Are the elves pregnant or will any old elf do?

Fools! Don't you know that we all have little elves inside that regulate our bodily functions? There are metabolism elves, heartbeat elves, poop-pushing elves (it's a really ****ty job), all kinds of elves.

MYTH.

They're not elves, they're fairies:

foxyxxx

To all the people who are saying this myth was busted a long ago - here is an article from NATURE (you know, one of the most respected scientific journal out there) from 2009 written after an extensive research - http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v17/n11/full/oby2009264a.html


If everything was so simple - calorie in and calorie out, we wouldn't have these people who can eat 'anything' and not gain any weight. Also you wouldn't have a problem with all of a sudden putting on weight after you reach certain age.

People with hormonal imbalance wouldn't be putting on weight easier and faster than other people.
You have to realize there are actually many factors that come into play.

When you sleep your metabolism (as well as ALL other bodily functions, like heartbeat) slow down, your temperature drops and the body goes into a somewhat standby mode.

All that said, it is impossible for us to get the real full picture so I would say it is best to do it the old school way, that is just by listening to your body and manage that calorie intake in general.

HealthyBodySickMind

Behold, I have the answers to this thread. I will execute this thread like a Libyan dictator... now...



The answers you seek come from within.

Meaning...

"Eat when you are hungry."

Woah woah I know this is groundbreaking advice, every one calm down now. I promise you, it works. We have so much of mfp, doctors, Webmd, HRMs, Jillian Michaels, The Flamboyant guy with the short short shorts, George Foreman taking a POW out of fat. etc that we forget to do one simple thing.

Listen to our bodies... Try it, its awesome. (Just dont talk to your body, people look at you strange unless of course you have something in your ear that looks like blue tooth or hold your phone out like an idiot, people will think your on the phone)

I have to be careful listening to my body, sometimes it tells me to hit the drivethru and get a cheesecake along with a milkshake and fries and forget the protein or veggies. LOL Have to filter that 'body voice' b/c that chick doesn't always know what she's talking about. :-) I used to listen to her before MFP but now I'm like 'Look, B*, you're gonna listen to me!' Haha.

when my body tells me to hit a drive through, i listen. in all seriousness, i'm a big one for listening to my body.

galey2000

Well Ron,

although humourous, your reply really wasn't helpful. I'm well aware that the eat when you want brigade is making the loudesyt noise. However the information that I passed on came from health professionals who I expect to know what they are on about, backed up by internet research. Think that makes it a bit more credible than prattling on about elves. Obviously the body performs differently in a conscious and uncounscious state, brain activity change heart slows as does metabolism. I am not an expert, but It's a bit naive to think that the body functions exactly the same in a waking and sleeping state. I 'm happy to stand corrected by any coherent researched answers from reliable sources. I am not prepared to back down just cos somebody makes a loud noise.

RonSwanson66

To all the people who are saying this myth was busted a long ago - here is an article from NATURE (you know, one of the most respected scientific journal out there) from 2009 written after an extensive research - http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v17/n11/full/oby2009264a.html

You are not a rat.

Espressocycle

It's not late, it's early.

ElizabethRoad

Well Ron,

although humourous, your reply really wasn't helpful. I'm well aware that the eat when you want brigade is making the loudesyt noise. However the information that I passed on came from health professionals who I expect to know what they are on about, backed up by internet research. Think that makes it a bit more credible than prattling on about elves. Obviously the body performs differently in a conscious and uncounscious state, brain activity change heart slows as does metabolism. I am not an expert, but It's a bit naive to think that the body functions exactly the same in a waking and sleeping state. I 'm happy to stand corrected by any coherent researched answers from reliable sources. I am not prepared to back down just cos somebody makes a loud noise.

If you eat two hours before bed, most people will spend the rest of that time sitting and watching TV. Does that really burn a lot more calories than sleeping? I'll give you a few. But significantly?

ElizabethRoad

To all the people who are saying this myth was busted a long ago - here is an article from NATURE (you know, one of the most respected scientific journal out there) from 2009 written after an extensive research - http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v17/n11/full/oby2009264a.html

You are not a rat.

Speak for yourself.

Sidesteal

Well Ron,

although humourous, your reply really wasn't helpful. I'm well aware that the eat when you want brigade is making the loudesyt noise. However the information that I passed on came from health professionals who I expect to know what they are on about, backed up by internet research. Think that makes it a bit more credible than prattling on about elves. Obviously the body performs differently in a conscious and uncounscious state, brain activity change heart slows as does metabolism. I am not an expert, but It's a bit naive to think that the body functions exactly the same in a waking and sleeping state. I 'm happy to stand corrected by any coherent researched answers from reliable sources. I am not prepared to back down just cos somebody makes a loud noise.

First of all, aside from Ron's sarcasm I have yet to see him post anything I don't agree with. He clearly has educated himself on nutrition based on the good information he has been posting.

Second, Alan Aragon is one of the leaders in sports nutrition and he takes a no BS approach to dispellling myth and promoting fact. You can see his take on it here:
http://www.livestrong.com/blog/blog/does-eating-carbs-late-night-make-fat/

foxyxxx

To all the people who are saying this myth was busted a long ago - here is an article from NATURE (you know, one of the most respected scientific journal out there) from 2009 written after an extensive research - http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v17/n11/full/oby2009264a.html

You are not a rat.

Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot humans are a lot simpler creatures so for them it would only be calories in and calories out.

kodibear123

I would say eat right up to bedtime if you have to

HMonsterX

To all the people who are saying this myth was busted a long ago - here is an article from NATURE (you know, one of the most respected scientific journal out there) from 2009 written after an extensive research - http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v17/n11/full/oby2009264a.html

You are not a rat.

Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot humans are a lot simpler creatures so for them it would only be calories in and calories out.

Humans also know where and when our next meal is coming, therefore we don't need to gorge ourselves. We also have self-control (in theory), and we understand about calories. Rats don't.

bry_all01

If everything was so simple - calorie in and calorie out, we wouldn't have these people who can eat 'anything' and not gain any weight.

Where is the problem with this example again?

CMmrsfloyd

Can I ask, without any tone of sarcasm I might add, purely out of curiousity:

The studies that say it *does* matter and that you *should not* eat after a certain point, are those studies looking at 'average' people who are not counting calories, or are they looking at people who observe and maintain very specific calorie goals? I feel like the MFP population is very different than the general population that does not know their BMR, TDEE, exercise calories, daily goal etc. For the general population that is not aware of or concerned with those numbers, I can see late-night snacking as being a problem b/c it could very well lead to eating more than what is needed for maintenance or weightloss. But I'm just not so sure that it makes a difference for the majority of the MFP, calorie-conscious and counting population. Giving advice on MFP, from my personal experience I say if you have the calories leftover (and if you have no specific medical conditions to consider) go right ahead and snack as late as you want, as long as you count it. But if I were giving advice to someone who wanted to lose weight or stop gaining without counting calories, I'd say hey stop snacking b/c you don't know how much you're eating. I think it's different when you consider the audience.

vim_n_vigor

WOW! Apparently this is a heated debate! Well I eat consistently throughout the day to avoid feeling starved at night. I am always really hungry after a good workout. I will eat (keeping within my calorie intake).

If eating before bed disrupts my sleeping (which I don't think it does, but I honestly haven't paid attention to it), then I will change it up.

I am not micromanaging the crap that doesn't matter

Thanks everyone!

:flowerforyou: Sounds like an excellent plan!

LabRat529

Well Ron,

although humourous, your reply really wasn't helpful. I'm well aware that the eat when you want brigade is making the loudesyt noise. However the information that I passed on came from health professionals who I expect to know what they are on about, backed up by internet research. Think that makes it a bit more credible than prattling on about elves. Obviously the body performs differently in a conscious and uncounscious state, brain activity change heart slows as does metabolism. I am not an expert, but It's a bit naive to think that the body functions exactly the same in a waking and sleeping state. I 'm happy to stand corrected by any coherent researched answers from reliable sources. I am not prepared to back down just cos somebody makes a loud noise.

You're missing the whole point.

In the LONG RUN, it just doesn't matter.

Sure, you burn less calories in your sleep. That makes sense to me. But so? It's just not going to matter in the LONG RUN whether you eat 5 minutes before bed or 3 hours before bed.

RonSwanson66

To all the people who are saying this myth was busted a long ago - here is an article from NATURE (you know, one of the most respected scientific journal out there) from 2009 written after an extensive research - http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v17/n11/full/oby2009264a.html

You are not a rat.

Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot humans are a lot simpler creatures so for them it would only be calories in and calories out.

Simpler? No.

Different? Absolutely.

Humans and rodents have vastly different metabolic processes, especially when it comes to lipogenesis. Although rodent studies can be useful for pointing toward areas that warrant further investigation, you cannot directly apply results of rat studies to humans.

Luna_Ivoree

In general, you're supposed to stop eating 1.5-2 hours before you go to bed so you don't disrupt sleep patterns (which is important for weight loss). When your metabolism is up and running, it will prevent your bodily functions from shutting down and prevent you from entering the REM sleep stage.

Can you back this up? This sounds wrong to me.

http://www.fitnessandpower.com/nutrition/136-stop-eating-before-bed

Don't know if this is super accurate, but it's something i found. I've also been under the impression that you should stop eating an hour or 2 before bed so you have ample time to digest everything properly and whatnot.

RonSwanson66

The studies that say it *does* matter and that you *should not* eat after a certain point, are those studies looking at 'average' people who are not counting calories, or are they looking at people who observe and maintain very specific calorie goals?

The studies that link late night eating to fat gain are merely correlational. They do not control for calories.

The few that do compare calorically matched early vs late eating patterns show no such correlation.

kennethmgreen

Can I ask, without any tone of sarcasm I might add, purely out of curiousity:

The studies that say it *does* matter and that you *should not* eat after a certain point, are those studies looking at 'average' people who are not counting calories, or are they looking at people who observe and maintain very specific calorie goals? I feel like the MFP population is very different than the general population that does not know their BMR, TDEE, exercise calories, daily goal etc. For the general population that is not aware of or concerned with those numbers, I can see late-night snacking as being a problem b/c it could very well lead to eating more than what is needed for maintenance or weightloss. But I'm just not so sure that it makes a difference for the majority of the MFP, calorie-conscious and counting population. Giving advice on MFP, from my personal experience I say if you have the calories leftover (and if you have no specific medical conditions to consider) go right ahead and snack as late as you want, as long as you count it. But if I were giving advice to someone who wanted to lose weight or stop gaining without counting calories, I'd say hey stop snacking b/c you don't know how much you're eating. I think it's different when you consider the audience.

You are getting at the crux of the issue, I believe. But - don't laugh - it's similar to the muscle/fat arguments in that people are interpreting things differently. Are we talking about strictly defining calories in at 6:00pm vs. calories in at 10:00pm (right before bed)? Or are we talking more broadly, including people's behaviors and sleep patterns? If you pose a vague enough question (like "how late is too late to eat?") you can get a variety of answers that are all correct, depending how you interpret the question and how you support your argument.

ETA example:

Q: Does muscle weight more than fat?

A1: Yes, one cubic centimeter of muscle weighs more than one cubic centimeter of fat because muscle is more dense.

A2: No, one pound of muscle weighs exactly the same as one pound of fat.

Both answers are correct.

But worthy of pages of debate.

CMmrsfloyd

The studies that say it *does* matter and that you *should not* eat after a certain point, are those studies looking at 'average' people who are not counting calories, or are they looking at people who observe and maintain very specific calorie goals?

The studies that link late night eating to fat gain are merely correlational. They do not control for calories.

The few that do compare calorically matched early vs late eating patterns show no such correlation.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions. :-)

LabRat529

To all the people who are saying this myth was busted a long ago - here is an article from NATURE (you know, one of the most respected scientific journal out there) from 2009 written after an extensive research - http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v17/n11/full/oby2009264a.html


If everything was so simple - calorie in and calorie out, we wouldn't have these people who can eat 'anything' and not gain any weight. Also you wouldn't have a problem with all of a sudden putting on weight after you reach certain age.

People with hormonal imbalance wouldn't be putting on weight easier and faster than other people.
You have to realize there are actually many factors that come into play.

When you sleep your metabolism (as well as ALL other bodily functions, like heartbeat) slow down, your temperature drops and the body goes into a somewhat standby mode.

All that said, it is impossible for us to get the real full picture so I would say it is best to do it the old school way, that is just by listening to your body and manage that calorie intake in general.

Okay... interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

BUT... consider this: the hardest part of any long-term calorie-restrictive diet is actually sticking to the diet. That's always been my problem- sticking with it! I'll do fine for a month, two months, and then I go back to my old life-style and gain back the weight I lost.

So if "stick with it" is the hardest part, why on earth would I obsess over the 'when to eat'? Why would I tell someone else to obsess over 'when to eat'? It's hard enough worrying about the 'how much to eat'.

foxyxxx

To all the people who are saying this myth was busted a long ago - here is an article from NATURE (you know, one of the most respected scientific journal out there) from 2009 written after an extensive research - http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v17/n11/full/oby2009264a.html

You are not a rat.

Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot humans are a lot simpler creatures so for them it would only be calories in and calories out.

Simpler? No.

Different? Absolutely.

Humans and rodents have vastly different metabolic processes, especially when it comes to lipogenesis. Although rodent studies can be useful for pointing toward areas that warrant further investigation, you cannot directly apply results of rat studies to humans.

I never said apply directly.

But you jumping on that girl like she is telling you the earth is flat is just bad form.

The truth is we don't know for sure. and it definitely is not as simple as calorie in and calorie out. although, if you do obey the calorie in and calorie out, you should be fine, because this is the biggest problem usually.

Personally, I have tried different ways of handling the same calorie number and I have noticed that if I eat more in the morning and less in the evening I tend to lose weight quicker. I also sleep better, therefore I have more energy the next day, therefore I probably burn more calories as well.

angelapolite

I try to stop eating about 2-3 hours before bed. That gives your body time to digest and burn more during sleeptime. Plus I can't ever sleep with a full tummy.

vim_n_vigor

No matter what the studies say on this, and many other topics, the studies are generalizations. What works for one person, some people, or most people, doesn't apply to all. In the end, you have to find what works for YOU, you have to find what is sustainable for YOU and work with that.

If there truly was one 'trick' that everyone could do to lose weight, there wouldn't be an entire industry devoted to it, there wouldn't be so many products being sold, so many people overweight, etc. I don't usually eat before bed, not because I think I can't, but because I am normally not hungry. If I am hungry 5 minutes before I go to bed, I will eat something. I won't sleep if I am hungry. Even if it means I will go over my caloric goals for the day, I will have something small so I can sleep comfortably. I have worked shift work, straight day time schedule, and sporadic shifts at various points in my life. My weight had nothing to do with the times of day I ate, but the crappy choices I was making. Maybe I lose .005 pounds a week slower by eating before bed, maybe I lose it .005 faster, or maybe no difference. In the big picture, by maintaining my deficit I am still able to lose consistently.

foxyxxx

To all the people who are saying this myth was busted a long ago - here is an article from NATURE (you know, one of the most respected scientific journal out there) from 2009 written after an extensive research - http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v17/n11/full/oby2009264a.html


If everything was so simple - calorie in and calorie out, we wouldn't have these people who can eat 'anything' and not gain any weight. Also you wouldn't have a problem with all of a sudden putting on weight after you reach certain age.

People with hormonal imbalance wouldn't be putting on weight easier and faster than other people.
You have to realize there are actually many factors that come into play.

When you sleep your metabolism (as well as ALL other bodily functions, like heartbeat) slow down, your temperature drops and the body goes into a somewhat standby mode.

All that said, it is impossible for us to get the real full picture so I would say it is best to do it the old school way, that is just by listening to your body and manage that calorie intake in general.

Okay... interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

BUT... consider this: the hardest part of any long-term calorie-restrictive diet is actually sticking to the diet. That's always been my problem- sticking with it! I'll do fine for a month, two months, and then I go back to my old life-style and gain back the weight I lost.

So if "stick with it" is the hardest part, why on earth would I obsess over the 'when to eat'? Why would I tell someone else to obsess over 'when to eat'? It's hard enough worrying about the 'how much to eat'.

I agree which is why I don't advocate it. The main issue is always just overeating, that is pretty simple, the rest is minutiae.

I just didn't like it how everyone was implying that girl who originally posted it was ignorant, urban myth believer.

foxyxxx

If there truly was one 'trick' that everyone could do to lose weight, there wouldn't be an entire industry devoted to it, there wouldn't be so many products being sold, so many people overweight, etc.

I think there IS one trick - it is called eating less

That pretty much always works. There have been studies!

vim_n_vigor

I never said apply directly.

But you jumping on that girl like she is telling you the earth is flat is just bad form.

The truth is we don't know for sure. and it definitely is not as simple as calorie in and calorie out. although, if you do obey the calorie in and calorie out, you should be fine, because this is the biggest problem usually.

Personally, I have tried different ways of handling the same calorie number and I have noticed that if I eat more in the morning and less in the evening I tend to lose weight quicker. I also sleep better, therefore I have more energy the next day, therefore I probably burn more calories as well.

Did you change the time of day you weighed in to account for the times of day you were eating? Eating more at night you are going to have, um, more bulk in you intestines when you wake up then if you ate most of your calories early in the day. If it works better for you to eat at a certain time of day, then you should eat that way. That doesn't mean that your answer is the one that will work for me. I don't eat breakfast most days, and I don't eat several small meals a day. I eat most of my calories at one time. That works best for my schedule and my body is happiest that way. That doesn't mean I think everyone should do it that way. There are people that wake up starving. They should eat. I am not hungry and forcing myself to eat usually ends up with my losing my breakfast. Even if I see as study that says I must eat within an hour of waking up, I know that won't work for me and won't be sustainable.