Excerpt from Sugar Nation

neanderthin

Yes, it's the carbs fault that Americans are becoming overweight and suffering from myriad health problems. Let's completely ignore the parts of the world where grains and carbs ARE the staple diet, and they have none of the health problems we have here.

It's not sugar, it's not ZOMG EVIL CARBS, it's simply the fact that Americans eat over 600 calories a day MORE than they did 40 years ago on average. People are moving a lot less (due to the increase in sedentary desk jobs,) and eating a lot more. It's that simple. There is no magic bullet.

Also, insulin spikes and blood sugar spikes right after eating are NORMAL, it's how the body works. Insulin rises when you eat, which suppresses your appetite, and then steadily falls over the next several hours. It's like your oven, you set your oven for a set temperature, and your oven heats up, spikes above that temperature, falls back down under it, spikes back up over it, etc.

That's another reason why I disagree with the eating every 2 hours or whatever it is, all that does is keep your insulin and blood glucose levels constantly raised, as you never let them fall.

Can you provide the habit that is all carb and has the same health results as the Eskimo example. Need to counter not just with words, but specifics.

Thanks

The Okinawan diet consists of about 90% carbohydrate. They are generally regarded as the healthiest population in the world, and have the longest lifespan.

Yup, well maybe not 90% but close enough. they love sweet potato and they like pork and have also used pork fat as their main cooking fat . Their activities, social connectiveness, and their philosophy of eating less has worked well for them and any other group that have longevity.

tigersword

Not really. Glucagon is the opposite of insulin. It's not released because of protein. It's released when blood glucose levels drop too low. Insulin is released when your blood glucose is elevated, it's job is to bring it down. Glucagon does the opposite, it's job is to raise your blood glucose levels when it's low. Basically glucagon is released when you aren't eating, and your blood glucose levels are low, in order to raise them up and stabilize them by telling your liver to release more glucose into the blood stream. Nothing to do with protein, and it certainly won't keep your blood glucose from elevating, as elevating blood glucose is kind of it's thing.

Also, Insulin actually inhibits glucagon release, so protein can't elicit both an insulin and glucagon response, because you can't have both hormones circulating at the same time.

I once thought the same thing, but in this specific case, glucagon and insulin are both released in response to dietary protein in the absence or restriction of carbs. The type and amount of protein seems to affect the degree of glucagon/insulin response as well. This explains why protein-rich foods can raise insulin levels without raising blood glucose levels, whereas a carb-rich diet will raise both insulin response and blood glucose levels.

For reference, see “Glucagon and Insulin Responses after Ingestion of Different Amounts of Intact and Hydrolysed Proteins” (2008) (http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/BJN100_01/S0007114507886314a.pdf&code=561f1bbd463f1056db323feb4fadd1e3)

“Insulin and glucagon responses increased with increasing protein load…but the effect was more pronounced for glucagon. A higher dose of protein or its hydrolysate will result in a lower insulin:glucagon ratio, an important parameter for the control of postprandial substrate metabolism. In conclusion, insulin and glucagon responses were protein and hydrolysate specific.”

Page 4, Figure 2, show their test subjects' (healthy, non-obese individuals) levels of insulin, glucagon, and blood glucose over time in response to the ingestion of soy and whey protein.

Glucagon RAISES blood sugar. What you're talking about is the release of glucagon due to a lack of carbs being eaten over time, which causes blood glucose levels to drop, causing a release of glucagon to tell the liver to release more glucose into the bloodstream to raise blood glucose levels in order to stabilize them.

It honestly has nothing to do with glucagon preventing blood sugar from spiking. Again, without eating glucose, there is no rise in blood glucose, hence glucagon release to stabilize falling blood glucose levels.

It has nothing to do with protein specifically, and everything to do with not eating carbs. Insulin response is not the same thing as blood sugar spike.

uboom

Yes, it's the carbs fault that Americans are becoming overweight and suffering from myriad health problems. Let's completely ignore the parts of the world where grains and carbs ARE the staple diet, and they have none of the health problems we have here.

It's not sugar, it's not ZOMG EVIL CARBS, it's simply the fact that Americans eat over 600 calories a day MORE than they did 40 years ago on average. People are moving a lot less (due to the increase in sedentary desk jobs,) and eating a lot more. It's that simple. There is no magic bullet.

Also, insulin spikes and blood sugar spikes right after eating are NORMAL, it's how the body works. Insulin rises when you eat, which suppresses your appetite, and then steadily falls over the next several hours. It's like your oven, you set your oven for a set temperature, and your oven heats up, spikes above that temperature, falls back down under it, spikes back up over it, etc.

That's another reason why I disagree with the eating every 2 hours or whatever it is, all that does is keep your insulin and blood glucose levels constantly raised, as you never let them fall.

Can you provide the habit that is all carb and has the same health results as the Eskimo example. Need to counter not just with words, but specifics.

Thanks

The Okinawan diet consists of about 90% carbohydrate. They are generally regarded as the healthiest population in the world, and have the longest lifespan.

Awesome thanks... of course I veified and your right. Now what does the Eskimos and the Okinawan have in common? They are eating Real food and not processed crap that the Western Diet brings. Now the reason I asked you to back it up is for the low carb people. If you look at all diets out there most agree on one thing. Eat real food and stay away from processed food. Some go low carb route, some go high carb, but all people start eating real food to get there. Real food and exercise!!!!

RonSwanson66

Yes, it's the carbs fault that Americans are becoming overweight and suffering from myriad health problems. Let's completely ignore the parts of the world where grains and carbs ARE the staple diet, and they have none of the health problems we have here.

It's not sugar, it's not ZOMG EVIL CARBS, it's simply the fact that Americans eat over 600 calories a day MORE than they did 40 years ago on average. People are moving a lot less (due to the increase in sedentary desk jobs,) and eating a lot more. It's that simple. There is no magic bullet.

Also, insulin spikes and blood sugar spikes right after eating are NORMAL, it's how the body works. Insulin rises when you eat, which suppresses your appetite, and then steadily falls over the next several hours. It's like your oven, you set your oven for a set temperature, and your oven heats up, spikes above that temperature, falls back down under it, spikes back up over it, etc.

That's another reason why I disagree with the eating every 2 hours or whatever it is, all that does is keep your insulin and blood glucose levels constantly raised, as you never let them fall.

Can you provide the habit that is all carb and has the same health results as the Eskimo example. Need to counter not just with words, but specifics.

Thanks

The Okinawan diet consists of about 90% carbohydrate. They are generally regarded as the healthiest population in the world, and have the longest lifespan.

Awesome thanks... of course I veified and your right. Now what does the Eskimos and the Okinawan have in common? They are eating Real food and not processed crap that the Western Diet brings. Now the reason I asked you to back it up is for the low carb people. If you look at all diets out there most agree on one thing. Eat real food and stay away from processed food. Some go low carb route, some go high carb, but all people start eating real food to get there. Real food and exercise!!!!

Ugh.

Your post completely ignores the fact that this single cause for obesity is a caloric surplus. The type of food you eat doesn't magically make you get fat.

You can get plenty fat on unprocessed food too.

hpsnickers1

Thanks everyone for a nice debate. This is why I post things that go against the conventional wisdom. I love to see the interesting information that comes from individuals. I love reading it. My mind is always open and who knows I might be on a different road a year from now. But I don't think I will because at 41 I have finally found my health and a very happy weight. Never though I would hit a weight that I haven't seen since before puberty.

And if only one person on this site who is battling obesity and counting calories and eating the SAD and doing tons of exercise and can't seem to get the weight off comes across this post and maybe decides to do some research and then that leads to experimenting with his/her diet and finds success and gets his/her body and health back then I have helped that person and that makes me feel good.

hpsnickers1

Yes, it's the carbs fault that Americans are becoming overweight and suffering from myriad health problems. Let's completely ignore the parts of the world where grains and carbs ARE the staple diet, and they have none of the health problems we have here.

It's not sugar, it's not ZOMG EVIL CARBS, it's simply the fact that Americans eat over 600 calories a day MORE than they did 40 years ago on average. People are moving a lot less (due to the increase in sedentary desk jobs,) and eating a lot more. It's that simple. There is no magic bullet.

Also, insulin spikes and blood sugar spikes right after eating are NORMAL, it's how the body works. Insulin rises when you eat, which suppresses your appetite, and then steadily falls over the next several hours. It's like your oven, you set your oven for a set temperature, and your oven heats up, spikes above that temperature, falls back down under it, spikes back up over it, etc.

That's another reason why I disagree with the eating every 2 hours or whatever it is, all that does is keep your insulin and blood glucose levels constantly raised, as you never let them fall.

Can you provide the habit that is all carb and has the same health results as the Eskimo example. Need to counter not just with words, but specifics.

Thanks

The Okinawan diet consists of about 90% carbohydrate. They are generally regarded as the healthiest population in the world, and have the longest lifespan.

Awesome thanks... of course I veified and your right. Now what does the Eskimos and the Okinawan have in common? They are eating Real food and not processed crap that the Western Diet brings. Now the reason I asked you to back it up is for the low carb people. If you look at all diets out there most agree on one thing. Eat real food and stay away from processed food. Some go low carb route, some go high carb, but all people start eating real food to get there. Real food and exercise!!!!

Ugh.

Your post completely ignores the fact that this single cause for obesity is a caloric surplus. The type of food you eat doesn't magically make you get fat.

You can get plenty fat on unprocessed food too.

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

sunnyskyjb

Thanks for posting this!

RonSwanson66

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

Of course it is.

If you're referring to people with metabolic disorders, you're forgetting that this effects the calories out side of the equation. When they get fat, they're consuming more calories than they expend.

It's that simple.

Sidesteal

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

Please name one other. Or, find an example of obesity in the presence of a calorie deficit.

good luck.

Elizabeth_C34

Evil Tater says, "At least they aren't blaming me this time!"

neanderthin

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

Please name one other. Or, find an example of obesity in the presence of a calorie deficit.

good luck.

Almost sounds like a Gary Taubes deciple. :devil:

Sidesteal

Almost sounds like a Gary Taubes deciple. :devil:

The funny part is, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

tigersword

Evil Tater says, "At least they aren't blaming me this time!"

:laugh:

MinnesotaManimal

Ive been clicking on refresh for an hour on this topic, Don't everybody respond at once! Come on, Im on the edge of my seat here. :laugh:

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

Please name one other. Or, find an example of obesity in the presence of a calorie deficit.

good luck.

Elizabeth_C34

Ive been clicking on refresh for an hour on this topic, Don't everybody respond at once! Come on, Im on the edge of my seat here. :laugh:

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

Please name one other. Or, find an example of obesity in the presence of a calorie deficit.

good luck.

uboom

Yes, it's the carbs fault that Americans are becoming overweight and suffering from myriad health problems. Let's completely ignore the parts of the world where grains and carbs ARE the staple diet, and they have none of the health problems we have here.

It's not sugar, it's not ZOMG EVIL CARBS, it's simply the fact that Americans eat over 600 calories a day MORE than they did 40 years ago on average. People are moving a lot less (due to the increase in sedentary desk jobs,) and eating a lot more. It's that simple. There is no magic bullet.

If you eat processed food that are calorie dense you eat a ton of calories each day. If you eat real food and exercise you don't consume the surplus calories. I did address it, but didn't spell it out for you.

Also, insulin spikes and blood sugar spikes right after eating are NORMAL, it's how the body works. Insulin rises when you eat, which suppresses your appetite, and then steadily falls over the next several hours. It's like your oven, you set your oven for a set temperature, and your oven heats up, spikes above that temperature, falls back down under it, spikes back up over it, etc.

That's another reason why I disagree with the eating every 2 hours or whatever it is, all that does is keep your insulin and blood glucose levels constantly raised, as you never let them fall.

Can you provide the habit that is all carb and has the same health results as the Eskimo example. Need to counter not just with words, but specifics.

Thanks

The Okinawan diet consists of about 90% carbohydrate. They are generally regarded as the healthiest population in the world, and have the longest lifespan.

Awesome thanks... of course I veified and your right. Now what does the Eskimos and the Okinawan have in common? They are eating Real food and not processed crap that the Western Diet brings. Now the reason I asked you to back it up is for the low carb people. If you look at all diets out there most agree on one thing. Eat real food and stay away from processed food. Some go low carb route, some go high carb, but all people start eating real food to get there. Real food and exercise!!!!

Ugh.

Your post completely ignores the fact that this single cause for obesity is a caloric surplus. The type of food you eat doesn't magically make you get fat.

You can get plenty fat on unprocessed food too.

krypt5

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

tigersword

Yes, it's the carbs fault that Americans are becoming overweight and suffering from myriad health problems. Let's completely ignore the parts of the world where grains and carbs ARE the staple diet, and they have none of the health problems we have here.

It's not sugar, it's not ZOMG EVIL CARBS, it's simply the fact that Americans eat over 600 calories a day MORE than they did 40 years ago on average. People are moving a lot less (due to the increase in sedentary desk jobs,) and eating a lot more. It's that simple. There is no magic bullet.

Also, insulin spikes and blood sugar spikes right after eating are NORMAL, it's how the body works. Insulin rises when you eat, which suppresses your appetite, and then steadily falls over the next several hours. It's like your oven, you set your oven for a set temperature, and your oven heats up, spikes above that temperature, falls back down under it, spikes back up over it, etc.

That's another reason why I disagree with the eating every 2 hours or whatever it is, all that does is keep your insulin and blood glucose levels constantly raised, as you never let them fall.

Can you provide the habit that is all carb and has the same health results as the Eskimo example. Need to counter not just with words, but specifics.

Thanks

The Okinawan diet consists of about 90% carbohydrate. They are generally regarded as the healthiest population in the world, and have the longest lifespan.

Awesome thanks... of course I veified and your right. Now what does the Eskimos and the Okinawan have in common? They are eating Real food and not processed crap that the Western Diet brings. Now the reason I asked you to back it up is for the low carb people. If you look at all diets out there most agree on one thing. Eat real food and stay away from processed food. Some go low carb route, some go high carb, but all people start eating real food to get there. Real food and exercise!!!!

Ugh.

Your post completely ignores the fact that this single cause for obesity is a caloric surplus. The type of food you eat doesn't magically make you get fat.

You can get plenty fat on unprocessed food too.

If you eat processed food that are calorie dense you eat a ton of calories each day. If you eat real food and exercise you don't consume the surplus calories. I did address it, but didn't spell it out for you.

Uboom looks to have messed up on the quote feature, I believe I've fixed it here, to alleviate confusion, I'm going to requote what he said (since it was mixed into my original post.)

If you eat processed food that are calorie dense you eat a ton of calories each day. If you eat real food and exercise you don't consume the surplus calories. I did address it, but didn't spell it out for you.

This is a totally illogical argument. It is just as possible to eat calorie dense processed food and stick to your calorie limits, and eat unprocessed food and overeat. I'm not even sure what the point of this is supposed to be.

ahamm002

Yes, it's the carbs fault that Americans are becoming overweight and suffering from myriad health problems. Let's completely ignore the parts of the world where grains and carbs ARE the staple diet, and they have none of the health problems we have here.

It's not sugar, it's not ZOMG EVIL CARBS, it's simply the fact that Americans eat over 600 calories a day MORE than they did 40 years ago on average. People are moving a lot less (due to the increase in sedentary desk jobs,) and eating a lot more. It's that simple. There is no magic bullet.

Also, insulin spikes and blood sugar spikes right after eating are NORMAL, it's how the body works. Insulin rises when you eat, which suppresses your appetite, and then steadily falls over the next several hours. It's like your oven, you set your oven for a set temperature, and your oven heats up, spikes above that temperature, falls back down under it, spikes back up over it, etc.

The part you're missing is that certain types of diets will stimulate hunger and over-eating more than other types of diets. Diets high in sugar and refined carbs and low in protein will make you want to eat more calories.

ahamm002

Ugh.

Your post completely ignores the fact that this single cause for obesity is a caloric surplus. The type of food you eat doesn't magically make you get fat.

You can get plenty fat on unprocessed food too.

And the part you're ignoring is that it's a lot easier to develop a caloric surplus by eating potato chips than by eating vegetables. Most obese people would take in far fewer calories without even trying to diet if they changed the types of foods they ate.

ahamm002

You can't create fat from a vacuum. If you are obese, you got there by eating more calories than your bodies needed to maintain. Period.

Yet zero calorie diet soda is more strongly associated with obesity than high calorie regular soda. Obviously calories aren't being created from thin air. Different foods stimulate hunger and satiety differently.

RonSwanson66

Ugh.

Your post completely ignores the fact that this single cause for obesity is a caloric surplus. The type of food you eat doesn't magically make you get fat.

You can get plenty fat on unprocessed food too.

And the part you're ignoring is that it's a lot easier to develop a caloric surplus by eating potato chips than by eating vegetables. Most obese people would take in far fewer calories without even trying to diet if they changed the types of foods they ate.

If only there were a way that one could consume both, but alas the universe can only count to two so this will never be possible.

et zero calorie diet soda is more strongly associated with obesity than high calorie regular soda. Obviously calories aren't being created from thin air. Different foods stimulate hunger and satiety differently.

As we all know, correlation and causation are exactly the same thing.


Gotta love the binary thinking going on here.

Acg67

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

Please name one other. Or, find an example of obesity in the presence of a calorie deficit.

good luck.

Almost sounds like a Gary Taubes deciple. :devil:

So you mean overeating is a symptom of obesity and not the cause of it? And it's the evil evil CHO that makes people fat, because as Taubes says protein and fat cannot make you fat?

_Bro

Having an evil villain makes for a better story! - Bro fact.

Something as simple as eating less and occasionally more is way too complicated.

RonSwanson66

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

Please name one other. Or, find an example of obesity in the presence of a calorie deficit.

good luck.

Almost sounds like a Gary Taubes deciple. :devil:

So you mean overeating is a symptom of obesity and not the cause of it? And it's the evil evil CHO that makes people fat, because as Taubes says protein and fat cannot make you fat?

It can't!!!! The proof is in the picture:

Silverkittycat

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

Please name one other. Or, find an example of obesity in the presence of a calorie deficit.

good luck.

Almost sounds like a Gary Taubes deciple. :devil:

So you mean overeating is a symptom of obesity and not the cause of it? And it's the evil evil CHO that makes people fat, because as Taubes says protein and fat cannot make you fat?

It can't!!!! The proof is in the picture:

Taubes = Evil Tater? :laugh:

I still like him, even if I don't agree with everything he says.

ahamm002

As we all know, correlation and causation are exactly the same thing.


Gotta love the binary thinking going on here.

Once again, oh the irony. Yes, it's possible that diet soda's correlation to obesity is 100% due to confounders. You'd be in the great minority if you thought that though. How many other diet foods are more strongly associated with obesity than their full sugar counter parts?

tigersword

What's a diet food? How many studies haves there been comparing them?

Are people that are heavier, heavier because they drink diet soda, or are people drinking diet soda because they are overweight?

Same with regular soda, are overweight people not drinking regular soda because they switched to diet, are normal weight people drinking regular soda because they aren't overweight and don't need diet? The entire concept is inherently flawed, without doing a controlled study, which hasn't been done. Food and drink surveys do not equal a controlled study that controls for weight change and diet.

chubbybunnee

I noticed when Im on a low carb diet I lose weight faster then any other type of diet but its hard for me to stick to it. I love carbs. They make my stomach feel better when my gerd acts up and my favorite veggies are broccoli and zucchini. Fruits too! I don't think I could stick to a low carb diet. I eat similar foods every day. One of which is an organic wheat wrap and the other is rice. I know rice especially white rice is bad, but its my fave! Mfp allows me to eat about 150g of carbs a day. What is recommended for low carb? Under 30? I just wish I could have my wrap and my one cup of rice and not worry that Im eating too many carbs. It makes me sad.

tigersword

Rice is not bad. White rice is not bad. If you enjoy it, eat it.

And you lose weight faster on low carb because you lose more water weight.