Excerpt from Sugar Nation

Debbe2

Thank you Hpsnickers1 for posting this! Lots of good information on this thread.

It is true that anything we eat results in insulin being dumped into the blood however the insulin needed as a response to the consumption of refined carbohydrates and sugars is much more of a spike response than it is when a fat is consumed at the same time. So a Milky Way will cause in increase in blood glucose that's lower and slower, more of a bell curve if you will then a coke. Similarly, a bagel with cream cheese or peanut butter will somewhat help to slow the rapid rise of blood glucose entering the body as well.

Diet soda was my preferred drink my entire life and to be honest I've never been thin. Diet soda didn't make me overweight but viewing food as a comfort and an enjoyment did. Notice that movement and exercise aren't mentioned? Until food was used as fuel and enjoyed as fuel, and enjoyment from movement and exercise developed I'm not sure I would have been able to lose any weight. That's where the concentration needs to be. What we consume to make up the 1200, 1800, 2500 calories per day doesn't matter. It's calories in, calories out and then a focus on what feels best to each of our bodies and provides us with optimal health.

vs1023

Oh, also, to comment on the content of the topic in general, it's interesting to read about the different ways the body can work, but just because the body CAN survive on certain diets, doesn't mean it is ideal.

When people start educating themselves about fitness, the often start missing the forest for the trees. For the most part, my Grandma's nutrition advice still holds true.

I agree about Grandma I like to think back to the way my grandmother ate and she lived on a farm growing up so I try to model that. I do avoid refined sugar from crappy food (ie processed, junk, candy, etc) for the most part, but allow myself like dark chocolate or dark chocolate covered almonds. I just feel better on less sugar, it's not necessarily for the weight loss just what i choose to put in my body. Plus I hope to have awesome abs again one day and i know it starts with diet. Luckily I also love to exercise.

RonSwanson66

As we all know, correlation and causation are exactly the same thing.


Gotta love the binary thinking going on here.

Once again, oh the irony. Yes, it's possible that diet soda's correlation to obesity is 100% due to confounders. You'd be in the great minority if you thought that though. How many other diet foods are more strongly associated with obesity than their full sugar counter parts?

Did it ever occur to you that you have the causal relationship backwards????


Diet foods correlate with obesity because obese people are more likely to be dieting. Shocking, I know.

hpsnickers1

Thank you Hpsnickers1 for posting this! Lots of good information on this thread.

It is true that anything we eat results in insulin being dumped into the blood however the insulin needed as a response to the consumption of refined carbohydrates and sugars is much more of a spike response than it is when a fat is consumed at the same time. So a Milky Way will cause in increase in blood glucose that's lower and slower, more of a bell curve if you will then a coke. Similarly, a bagel with cream cheese or peanut butter will somewhat help to slow the rapid rise of blood glucose entering the body as well.

Diet soda was my preferred drink my entire life and to be honest I've never been thin. Diet soda didn't make me overweight but viewing food as a comfort and an enjoyment did. Notice that movement and exercise aren't mentioned? Until food was used as fuel and enjoyed as fuel, and enjoyment from movement and exercise developed I'm not sure I would have been able to lose any weight. That's where the concentration needs to be. What we consume to make up the 1200, 1800, 2500 calories per day doesn't matter. It's calories in, calories out and then a focus on what feels best to each of our bodies and provides us with optimal health.

You're welcome. I actually haven't been back to this until just now. I have gained on a calorie deficit due to what I was eating, not how much (almost 20lbs in under a year).

I did learn that fat will slow down the sugar response but I have also learned that some miraculous happens to saturated fat when you remove carbs from the picture. It becomes good for you.

hpsnickers1

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

Please name one other. Or, find an example of obesity in the presence of a calorie deficit.

good luck.

Almost sounds like a Gary Taubes deciple. :devil:

I am no one's disciple. Please. I have my own mind and I don't wear blinders. I have done my own research and have been through study after study (although nutritional studies don't mean a damn thing to me). I have read Gary Taubes. And I've read a whole lot more that just his book. And everyone says "he cherry-picked his data". Why, yes he did. And if the contradictory evidence wasn't out there he would have nothing to cherry-pick.

His book wasn't the reason I changed my diet. My research was the reason I changed my diet. And the more research I did the more confused I got as to why the "nutritional experts" out there were pushing what they were pushing.

And I didn't say that you can be obese with a calorie deficit - you completely switched that comment around. I said that a caloric surplus isn't the only cause of obesity. They are sentences with completely different contexts.

hpsnickers1

As we all know, correlation and causation are exactly the same thing.


Gotta love the binary thinking going on here.

Once again, oh the irony. Yes, it's possible that diet soda's correlation to obesity is 100% due to confounders. You'd be in the great minority if you thought that though. How many other diet foods are more strongly associated with obesity than their full sugar counter parts?

Did it ever occur to you that you have the causal relationship backwards????


Diet foods correlate with obesity because obese people are more likely to be dieting. Shocking, I know.

So they get obese from overeating but stay obese by dieting.

Acg67

And I didn't say that you can be obese with a calorie deficit - you completely switched that comment around. I said that a caloric surplus isn't the only cause of obesity. They are sentences with completely different contexts.

So what is the other cause/s of obesity?

ahamm002

As we all know, correlation and causation are exactly the same thing.


Gotta love the binary thinking going on here.

Once again, oh the irony. Yes, it's possible that diet soda's correlation to obesity is 100% due to confounders. You'd be in the great minority if you thought that though. How many other diet foods are more strongly associated with obesity than their full sugar counter parts?

Did it ever occur to you that you have the causal relationship backwards????


Diet foods correlate with obesity because obese people are more likely to be dieting. Shocking, I know.

Wow, did you think of that possible backward relationship all by yourself? Yes, of course that's possible but it's unlikely and you're in the minority if you assume that. Regardless, I'm not suprised that you tried to use that one study I mentioned as a strawman argument to change the subject. The important point is that different types of foods will be more or less likely to lead someone toward over eating. It's well accepted that diets high in sugar are associated with obesity.

So if you're the terminator with your diet, precisely counting every calorie eaten and burned, and never over-eating, then feel free to eat a diet loaded with high-fructose corn syrup. Of course it probably won't do anything good for your cholesterol, but whatever you won't be obese.

RonSwanson66

As we all know, correlation and causation are exactly the same thing.


Gotta love the binary thinking going on here.

Once again, oh the irony. Yes, it's possible that diet soda's correlation to obesity is 100% due to confounders. You'd be in the great minority if you thought that though. How many other diet foods are more strongly associated with obesity than their full sugar counter parts?

Did it ever occur to you that you have the causal relationship backwards????


Diet foods correlate with obesity because obese people are more likely to be dieting. Shocking, I know.

Wow, did you think of that possible backward relationship all by yourself? Yes, of course that's possible but it's unlikely and you're in the minority if you assume that.

That's only because the vast majority of people don't have the slightest clues how science works.

Regardless, I'm not suprised that you tried to use that one study I mentioned as a strawman argument to change the subject. The important point is that different types of foods will be more or less likely to lead someone toward over eating. It's well accepted that diets high in sugar are associated with obesity.

As are diets high in fat. Calorie-dense foods are easier to overeat. No ****.

So if you're the terminator with your diet, precisely counting every calorie eaten and burned, and never over-eating, then feel free to eat a diet loaded with high-fructose corn syrup. Of course it probably won't do anything good for your cholesterol, but whatever you won't be obese.

Blood lipids are mediated by genetics and/or obesity. That's it.

hpsnickers1

I posted this so people here on this site trying to lose weight and get healthy yet not succeeding will know that there is another option that can work for them if the one they are doing now isn't (and if they are obese then they are insulin resistant). My brother was told by his doctor to cut calories and exercise to lose weight. But it stopped working after a few months. And now, no matter how little he eats or how much he exercises he can't seem to lose anymore weight. And he is still obese so my brother is obese while in a calorie deficit.


What's sad is there are always people in blinders who have to come along and start the "bashing". This post is for the people who will read it, take it in and maybe eventually reach success in their goals by applying it to themselves.

"Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

Acg67

I posted this so people here on this site trying to lose weight and get healthy yet not succeeding will know that there is another option that can work for them if the one they are doing now isn't (and if they are obese then they are insulin resistant). My brother was told by his doctor to cut calories and exercise to lose weight. But it stopped working after a few months. And now, no matter how little he eats or how much he exercises he can't seem to lose anymore weight. And he is still obese so my brother is obese while in a calorie deficit.

"All over the internet, on forums dedicated to everything from weight loss to muscle gain, people will loudly argue that they are different. “My metabolism is different.”, “My nervous system is different”, “My muscles are different”, things of that sort. Everyone is a unique and delicate flower, just like their mom told them.

This usually follows them explaining why the good advice that others have used can’t possibly work for them. They are also usually the ones making no progress who won’t even consider trying something else. THEY. ARE. DIFFERENT.

Individuals who have a lot of fat to lose either think that they can magically gain weight eating only a few hundred calories per day, or that they can lose weight just by rearranging their food in some special way. Because their metabolism is different.

Diets play on this of course, hiding the simple fact that they are causing you to eat less in a complicated pseudoscience of macronutrient ratios and such. But there is never any magic to be had when you look at these books critically: it all comes down to making the person eat less, exercise more, or both. It’s just hidden in complex schemes and pseudo-physiology.

Before you think I’m just coming down on overweight individuals, let me say that bodybuilders and athletes want to magically gain muscle and lose fat with a similar rearrangement of nutrients. That by adding some magical nutrient (usually an overpriced supplement) will make them start gaining muscle (or losing fat) without changing the dynamics of the energy balance equation. In the same way diet books play on the frailties of overweight individuals, supplement companies play on the frailties of the athletes telling them to “Use this product if you aren’t gaining” when the real problem lies with the diet or training program.

In short: you can’t beat thermodynamics anymore than anything else in the universe. You. Are. Not. Different. You can’t gain bodymass unless your energy intake exceeds your energy output because you can’t make something out of nothing (muscle or fat). And you can’t lose bodymass unless your energy intake is less than your energy ouput. These are rules that every system in the universe has to follow, including the human body. Nature’s rules, not mine to quote the all-knowing Mr. Miyagi. We may not like them, but we have to live by them anyway."

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

RonSwanson66

A caloric surplus is not the only cause of obesity.

Please name one other. Or, find an example of obesity in the presence of a calorie deficit.

good luck.

Almost sounds like a Gary Taubes deciple. :devil:

I am no one's disciple. Please. I have my own mind and I don't wear blinders. I have done my own research and have been through study after study (although nutritional studies don't mean a damn thing to me). I have read Gary Taubes. And I've read a whole lot more that just his book. And everyone says "he cherry-picked his data". Why, yes he did. And if the contradictory evidence wasn't out there he would have nothing to cherry-pick.

Do you even know what cherry-picking means??

He relied on rat studies and older studies using outdated methods while ignoring more current studies that refuted his premise. Furthermore, he commonly misinterpreted and distorted several of his own sources.

His book wasn't the reason I changed my diet. My research was the reason I change
d my diet. And the more research I did the more confused I got as to why the "nutritional experts" out there were pushing what they were pushing.

Perhaps you should do more research. It's not that hard to find.

http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/search/label/Gary Taubes Fact Check

http://weightology.net/?p=265

Both of these are well-referenced, if you want to go to the primary sources.

And I didn't say that you can be obese with a calorie deficit - you completely switched that comment around. I said that a caloric surplus isn't the only cause of obesity.

Name another.

Sidesteal

And I didn't say that you can be obese with a calorie deficit - you completely switched that comment around. I said that a caloric surplus isn't the only cause of obesity.

Name another.

For the record OP, when I called you on the above I wans't attempting to switch anything around. You said that caloric surplus wasn't the only cause of obesity so I simply asked you to tell me another one. I'm still interested in this if you can provide it.

RonSwanson66

I posted this so people here on this site trying to lose weight and get healthy yet not succeeding will know that there is another option that can work for them if the one they are doing now isn't (and if they are obese then they are insulin resistant). My brother was told by his doctor to cut calories and exercise to lose weight. But it stopped working after a few months. And now, no matter how little he eats or how much he exercises he can't seem to lose anymore weight. And he is still obese so my brother is obese while in a calorie deficit.

How are you determining his deficit? He may think he's in a deficit, but if he isn't losing weight then it's simply not the case.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/5/E891.full

RonSwanson66

You're welcome. I actually haven't been back to this until just now. I have gained on a calorie deficit due to what I was eating, not how much (almost 20lbs in under a year).

Stop lying. Your are not a unique snowflake. The laws of thermodynamics apply to you, just like everyone else.

I did learn that fat will slow down the sugar response but I have also learned that some miraculous happens to saturated fat when you remove carbs from the picture. It becomes good for you.

Way to completely misunderstand the research.

krypt5

I did learn that fat will slow down the sugar response but I have also learned that some miraculous happens to saturated fat when you remove carbs from the picture. It becomes good for you.

Are you implying that saturated fat is bad in the presence of carbs? Please share your logic.

ahamm002

As are diets high in fat. Calorie-dense foods are easier to overeat. No ****.

And for the tenth time: different types of foods affect satiety differently. So a diet high in fat, and especially a diet high in protein, will be more filling and keep you full for longer than a similar amount of calories in the form of sugar. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Blood lipids are mediated by genetics and/or obesity. That's it.

Seriously? That's completely wrong and anybody who is even remotely familiar with nutrition (and any research done on nutrition lately) should know that. Numerous studies have shown different types of diets and foods to affect cholesterol differently. Some of the studies have even controlled for calories. So even with the exact same caloric intake, different types of foods have been shown to lead to different levels of cholesterol.