Low Calories, or Low Carbs? What is better.....

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Replies

  • Marll
    Marll Posts: 904 Member

    800 calories/day is dangerously low. I would hesitate to take diet advice from someone who thinks this is a good idea.

    Considering your last paragraph, you clearly did not read the research and do low-carb the way Atkins and most other plans recommend. If you had, you would know that you eat lots of vegetables and, as you move up the carb ladder, and fruits (especially berries). And it's very possible for most people to eat breads and desserts in limited portions. No wonder the low-carb plan didn't work for you. You simply didn't do it right.

    Yes, low carb didn't work for that person, but apparently starvation is working! Awesome for them :huh:
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    It's all about calories in... calories out. Low carb generally produces less calories.

    Wouldn't the person just replace the calories from the carbs with more fat and/or protein?
  • Marll
    Marll Posts: 904 Member
    Exactly, see my post above. I know that I take in more calories than I was before and still loose fat. I have noticed no loss of muscle either.
  • Cindym82
    Cindym82 Posts: 1,245 Member

    And therein lies the issue most people fall into. They go back to "normal" Standard American Diet (SAD) eating with the same habits they had before that made them fat to begin with and blame it on low carb diets being flawed. I never hear of people that go on low fat diets that go back to eating "normal" blaming it on low fat diets, they just blame fat and most people seem fine with the idea of cutting fat permanantly from a diet, but mention carbs and they go nuts.

    You basically have a few choices in my opinion:

    1. Eat less on a calorie restriced diet. Generally obsess about food and start and end each day hungry.
    2. Eat a low fat diet. Salivate over your co-worker's steak lunch because it smells great and wonder why they can eat that and stay slim. Generally obsess about food that you can't have and start and end each day hungry.
    3. Low carb diet. Generally don't think about food because you're never hungry. Long for bread and pasta occasionally and perhaps endulge occasionally. Start and end each day feeling satisfied.

    This comes from my experience anyway. There is no reason at all to "add carbs back in" as most people always say because they are generally unnecessary, or at least in the form that Americans consume them. If I "needed" carbs for more energy because of a specific activity I would supplement with things like sweet potatoes, not starchy wheats and other processed junk.

    The problem is you can't completely cut out carbs your entire life, you need some carbs to actually live. But you can't have pasta every single day of your life. And when you go from cutting them out completely than you crave them more and there for you binge on them when you go back to eating them.
  • funkycamper
    funkycamper Posts: 998 Member
    Actually you are losing vitamin C, D, B's of all kinds, and minerals, anti-oxidants, metals...etc... just to name a few.... There is a danger in limiting carbs over a period of time it is call karotine or something like that it is where your body gives off a toxic chemical that will eat you liver and splean and gulblatter. It is very dangerous to limit carb consumption like in the Atkins Diet because your body will after so long release this chemical due to lack of other nutrients that you need and you can develop sever health issues because of this chemical.
    I breast feed my son when I talked to a few nurses, Doctors, and nutritionists they told me about this and that it is deadly to not only me but to my baby also. If this type of diet gives you your desired results go for it but it is very dangerous. If you look at the Atkins website it only suggests you use the super low carb for a week, 3 max and warns against more then 3 weeks of super low carb intake which is under 24 or 26 carbs per day. Do some research and talk to some professionals before you scorn people..... You will sound a lot more intelligent that way.....LOL good luck.

    Eating lots of vegetables, a moderate amount of protein, nuts, seeds, dairy, limited fruits and starches are not going to have you losing C, D, B, minerals, antioxidants or metals. Again, you did not do the plans right by reintroducing carbs and going up the carb ladder to find your sweet spot.

    And I find this all surprising because you state yourself that the super low carb is only for a couple of weeks after which time you add carbs back in. If you know that, why didn't you do that?

    Karotine? Uhhhh, no. No such thing. I think you're talking about ketoacidosis which has absolutely nothing to do with the state of ketosis that Atkins talks about. Two different things that aren't the least bit related to each other. Ketones are simply the by-products produced when fatty acids are broken down into energy by the liver and kidneys and are used as energy and ketosis is the state where these by-products are large enough to be measurable in urine. Personally, I've never cared if I'm in ketosis or not and it is not necessary to go into ketosis to have successful weight loss. Ketosis is not dangerous although it can give you bad breath. And it is impossible for most people to be in ketosis unless they are eating very low carb, i.e., 20-25 grams/carb daily over a period of time as it doesn't occur until the glycogen stores are depleted in the liver. Since glycogen can be produced from vegetables, proteins, nuts, seeds, etc....well, in fact, any kind of food...this doesn't happen easily. Although if someone exercises intensely they can get into that state a bit easier but it usually only lasts until some food is ingested and processed by the body. In fact, someone eating very low calorie, i.e. 800 calories/day, is probably more likely to go into ketosis than someone eating more calories but eating lower carb.

    Ketoacidosis is something that can only occur in Type 1 diabetics and, very rarely, in Type 2 diabetics when there are insufficient levels of insulin, extremely high glucose levels and dehydration which is very dangerous. But it has nothing to do with a lower-carb diet. There is a lot of confusion on this issue and the medical community is often guilty of confusing the two for some odd reason.

    Again, please tell me how eating lots of vegetables, moderate amounts of proteins (chicken, fish, beef, eggs, pork), nuts, seeds, dairy, limited fruits and very limited starches is going to destroy my liver, gall bladder or spleen.

    Also tell me what important nutrients can only be obtained from grains/starches.
  • CoryIda
    CoryIda Posts: 7,870 Member

    A lot of times the foods that cause the most problems for people are sugar and refined carbs. By adopting a "well balanced" low-calorie diet, they often inadvertently remove the offending carbs and reduce their total carb intake as well. So its hard to say if carbs had an effect on you or not based on this testimony.
    I rarely eat processed foods (partly due to food allergies, partly because you can eat more when you eat higher quality food); however, I eat at least one banana every day and eat potatoes several times a week - I am pretty sure both of those are considered "no-no" foods for low carb-ers - and other fruits and some whole grains as well.
    I would say that, on average, 40-50% of my calories come from carbs and 25% come from fat, and 25-35% from protein. The only reason my protein is as high as 35% some days is that I am focusing on strength training at this point, but when I was losing weight, it was usually about 50% carbs / 25% fat / 25% protein. I typically ate around 1400-1600 calories while shedding the weight and, on maintenance, I eat about 1900-2000.
    So maybe now that I've added that information you can see that carbs really didn't impact my fat loss?
  • funkycamper
    funkycamper Posts: 998 Member
    Without restricting carbs, taking any pills, or doing anything crazy (just stuck with moderate exercise, plenty of water, and nutritious, well-balanced meals and snacks in sensible portions), I shed 125+ pounds and went from 56% body fat to 23% body fat. I'm pretty sure the carbs didn't interfere with my fat loss.

    We're all different. I love grains and starchy vegetables. But the simple fact is that my body has very negative effects to eating too much of these items. One of those items is vastly increased hunger due to hypoglycemic reactions. Most people who need to lower their carb intake have some kind of metabolic problem with processing excess carbs for their systems and, unfortunately, I'm one of them. Other effects are sluggishness, lethargy, reduced energy, need for more sleep, aching joints, headaches, etc.

    If someone can lose weight successfully without cutting their carb intake and they don't want to limit their carbs because they like eating grains, pastas, etc., then go for it. They probably don't need to go lower-carb to be successful. Sounds like you're one of them. Congratulations. I really wish I could.

    Now, again, tell me what is wrong with my plan which is basically the same as yours? I exercise, drink water and eat nutritious, well-balanced meals and snacks in sensible portions consisting of vegetables, proteins, dairy, nuts, seeds, limited fruits and grains.

    I also have at least one spike day a week where I enjoy some higher carb treats like pizza, lasagna, breads, baked goods, ice cream, whatever without guilt or negative impacts on weight loss. But I do have to increase my exercise levels and time spent doing it that day to help me process those carbs so I won't get the negative effects described above.
  • Marll
    Marll Posts: 904 Member

    The problem is you can't completely cut out carbs your entire life, you need some carbs to actually live. But you can't have pasta every single day of your life. And when you go from cutting them out completely than you crave them more and there for you binge on them when you go back to eating them.

    Incorrect. There is NO SUCH THING as an essential carbohydrate. Essential minerals, vitamins and essential fatty acids, but no such things as an essential carb. Secondly you get all the carbs that you need from eating vegtables and some fruits while eating low carb while also packing in all the other great stuff too. You CAN go your entire life not eating a single form of grains and be healthy and maintain an ideal weight. Look at Eskimos, pretty sure nobody is growing whole grains and eating bread in the Arctic, and they seem to live long healthy lives on things like seal, whale blubber, fish, etc. Only those that are integrating into western society and eating the stuff that westerners do seem to have issues with weight, tooth decay and disease.

    Secondly, it is proven time and time again that the longer you are on a low carb diet the less you want the carbs from processed and sugary foods. If you go back to them, sure they trigger a response to want to eat more, it is like an addiction (the carb flu that people talk about is really detoxing the crap from your system) and you'll slide right back into poor decisions, take it from someone whos done that. I see carb-y treats all the time at work, the store, I don't even notice them at all anymore, they don't even register in my brain as real food.
  • Marll
    Marll Posts: 904 Member
    I rarely eat processed foods (partly due to food allergies, partly because you can eat more when you eat higher quality food); however, I eat at least one banana every day and eat potatoes several times a week - I am pretty sure both of those are considered "no-no" foods for low carb-ers - and other fruits and some whole grains as well.
    I would say that, on average, 40-50% of my calories come from carbs and 25% come from fat, and 25-35% from protein. The only reason my protein is as high as 35% some days is that I am focusing on strength training at this point, but when I was losing weight, it was usually about 50% carbs / 25% fat / 25% protein. I typically ate around 1400-1600 calories while shedding the weight and, on maintenance, I eat about 1900-2000.
    So maybe now that I've added that information you can see that carbs really didn't impact my fat loss?

    I'd have to conclude from your statements that you've cut out the junk in your diet and replaced it with better options. Will a potato kill a low carber? No, of course not, it's still natural food, but you still don't want to eat them every single day. Will a banana kill a low carber, no of course not, but you should try to err on the side of lower sugar fruits like berries.

    I'm glad what you did worked for you, that's awesome, but more often than not people are yo-yo dieting or starving themselves, or eating poor quality or horrible tasting foods in the quest to loose weight, when they could eat a more natural whole food diet with more carb restriction and break the cycle.

    There's more than one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes, but I'd be willing to bet that there are more efficient ways of doing it.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679

    The problem is you can't completely cut out carbs your entire life, you need some carbs to actually live. But you can't have pasta every single day of your life. And when you go from cutting them out completely than you crave them more and there for you binge on them when you go back to eating them.

    Carbs are not essential for life. However people who are highly active need them for optimal performance.

    Actually contrary to that, the reason low-carb diets work is because cutting them out actually reduces the occurrence of cravings and binges. It is easier to cut out completely than to moderate portions. That's why AA works for alcoholics.

    And 79 million Americans have pre-diabetes, which is associated with insulin resistance. And carbs are about the worst thing you can eat for these folks.
  • Marll
    Marll Posts: 904 Member
    Actually you are losing vitamin C, D, B's of all kinds, and minerals, anti-oxidants, metals...etc... just to name a few.... There is a danger in limiting carbs over a period of time it is call karotine or something like that it is where your body gives off a toxic chemical that will eat you liver and splean and gulblatter. It is very dangerous to limit carb consumption like in the Atkins Diet because your body will after so long release this chemical due to lack of other nutrients that you need and you can develop sever health issues because of this chemical.
    I breast feed my son when I talked to a few nurses, Doctors, and nutritionists they told me about this and that it is deadly to not only me but to my baby also. If this type of diet gives you your desired results go for it but it is very dangerous. If you look at the Atkins website it only suggests you use the super low carb for a week, 3 max and warns against more then 3 weeks of super low carb intake which is under 24 or 26 carbs per day. Do some research and talk to some professionals before you scorn people..... You will sound a lot more intelligent that way.....LOL good luck.

    You should take some of your own advice and research before typing a passage like that. All of the vitamins you list are found in abundance in vegtables and lower sugar/carb fruits and plenty in meat as well.

    Karotine is not something that even exists. You are thinking of Ketones, which is a natural chemical in the body and in no way harmful, in fact cardiac muscle actually prefers ketones, and the brain can run just fine on a blend of ketones and minimal glucose. You are thinking of diabetic ketoacidosis, which is a very harmful condition but totally unrelated to ketones in the body, and just something that the media has twisted and misinformed the public about to further demonize low carb diets.

    Entire civilizations have existed for ages on what is practically a zero-carb diet.

    Read more here as well: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/a-metabolic-paradigm-shift-fat-carbs-human-body-metabolism/#axzz1l49GbqKi
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member

    Incorrect. There is NO SUCH THING as an essential carbohydrate. Essential minerals, vitamins and essential fatty acids, but no such things as an essential carb. Secondly you get all the carbs that you need from eating vegtables and some fruits while eating low carb while also packing in all the other great stuff too. You CAN go your entire life not eating a single form of grains and be healthy and maintain an ideal weight. Look at Eskimos, pretty sure nobody is growing whole grains and eating bread in the Arctic, and they seem to live long healthy lives on things like seal, whale blubber, fish, etc. Only those that are integrating into western society and eating the stuff that westerners do seem to have issues with weight, tooth decay and disease.

    Secondly, it is proven time and time again that the longer you are on a low carb diet the less you want the carbs from processed and sugary foods. If you go back to them, sure they trigger a response to want to eat more, it is like an addiction (the carb flu that people talk about is really detoxing the crap from your system) and you'll slide right back into poor decisions, take it from someone whos done that. I see carb-y treats all the time at work, the store, I don't even notice them at all anymore, they don't even register in my brain as real food.

    Saying there are no essential carbs is a pretty misleading statement. True, the human body can function without them, so in that respect they are not "essential". But that is not optimal. The human body can function without a lot of things, including protein.

    Also, if one were to "completely cut out carbs" you could not be eating fruits or vegetables. You seem to be confusing "carbs" with carbs from grains.

    I realize that some people have a medical need to cut grains from their diet, but it's really not needed for the general population. And there is evidence that, without a medical need, it's healthier not to cut whole grains (such as the long term Nurse's Healthy Study).
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679

    Saying there are no essential carbs is a pretty misleading statement. True, the human body can function without them, so in that respect they are not "essential". But that is not optimal. The human body can function without a lot of things, including protein.

    Also, if one were to "completely cut out carbs" you could not be eating fruits or vegetables. You seem to be confusing "carbs" with carbs from grains.

    I realize that some people have a medical need to cut grains from their diet, but it's really not needed for the general population. And there is evidence that, without a medical need, it's healthier not to cut whole grains (such as the long term Nurse's Healthy Study).

    Human body will die without protein. Just as there is no need to cut out carbs completely, there is no need to eat 45% or more of your calories from carbs unless you are very physically active. It should not be the "standard" recommendation because it is not optimal for health in the average person.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    Human body will die without protein.

    There are people that do not, due to severe food allergies, consume any protien. They must eat/drink amino acid based "medical food", but they do not consume protein and they live.
  • funkycamper
    funkycamper Posts: 998 Member
    I rarely eat processed foods (partly due to food allergies, partly because you can eat more when you eat higher quality food); however, I eat at least one banana every day and eat potatoes several times a week - I am pretty sure both of those are considered "no-no" foods for low carb-ers - and other fruits and some whole grains as well.
    I would say that, on average, 40-50% of my calories come from carbs and 25% come from fat, and 25-35% from protein. The only reason my protein is as high as 35% some days is that I am focusing on strength training at this point, but when I was losing weight, it was usually about 50% carbs / 25% fat / 25% protein. I typically ate around 1400-1600 calories while shedding the weight and, on maintenance, I eat about 1900-2000.
    So maybe now that I've added that information you can see that carbs really didn't impact my fat loss?

    As I stated in my prior post to you, congratulations and bully for you. Wish I could do so.

    There are no "no-no" foods for low-carbers once they get past the two week induction period and start adding carbs back into their diet until they find the sweet spot where they can lose weight without feeling deprived and without having any negative physical impacts from the carbs they eat, i.e. elevated insulin levels, hypoglycemic episodes, fatigue, etc. (there are numerous possibilities and not all people feel all these effects).

    Anyway, most low-carbers can, if they want, successfully eat banana, potato or grains in limited portions. I, too, eat these several times weekly. I just probably eat smaller serving sizes than you do when I do eat them. In fact, at breakfast this morning, I just enjoyed 1 small potato grated into hash browns.

    The simple fact is that some of us need to limit carbs, some don't. What works for you may not work for me and vice-versa. We all need to experiment and find what fits us best. As long as we are eating enough calories to not damage our metabolisms and getting our nutrients, the other variables that can be adjusted to meet individuals needs are just that....individual.

    There is no right or wrong. I'm glad for you that you could lose weight at 50% carbs in your diet. I can't and I feel miserable when I eat that much. Why can't you accept that?
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679

    There are people that do not, due to severe food allergies, consume any protien. They must eat/drink amino acid based "medical food", but they do not consume protein and they live.

    Ok fine I'll take your word for it, but that's a lot different than saying carbs are essential.
  • Marll
    Marll Posts: 904 Member

    Saying there are no essential carbs is a pretty misleading statement. True, the human body can function without them, so in that respect they are not "essential". But that is not optimal. The human body can function without a lot of things, including protein.

    Also, if one were to "completely cut out carbs" you could not be eating fruits or vegetables. You seem to be confusing "carbs" with carbs from grains.

    I realize that some people have a medical need to cut grains from their diet, but it's really not needed for the general population. And there is evidence that, without a medical need, it's healthier not to cut whole grains (such as the long term Nurse's Healthy Study).

    I never said cut carbs completely to zero (though you CAN do that with no ill effects, your body just consumes dietary fat as a fuel source). What I am saying is that you can cut all the processed carbs, the sugar, the whole grains, the rice, corn, all of these things that have and will be shown in the future to have detrimental effects on weight and insulin in the human body, get any carbs that you take in from vegtables and some fruit and be fine.

    Most of the times the anti-low carb crowd goes nuts when you mention cutting grains, but there is NOTHING worthwhile in grains that cannot be had in another source that has less effect on blood sugar and insulin levels.Heart Healthy Whole Grains? Based on what exactly is that statement being made? Nothing more than the thought that it SHOULD be good for you, though science has plenty of studies to show that whole grains are actually anti-nutrients and cause malabsorbtion of what they offer more than processed grains. Anything that you have to process or modify beyond cooking to eat in my book is probably junk.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member

    There are people that do not, due to severe food allergies, consume any protien. They must eat/drink amino acid based "medical food", but they do not consume protein and they live.

    That is not possible. Everything, including fruits, vegetables and nuts contain protein. They are getting protein from somewhere.........
  • Cindym82
    Cindym82 Posts: 1,245 Member

    I'd have to conclude from your statements that you've cut out the junk in your diet and replaced it with better options. Will a potato kill a low carber? No, of course not, it's still natural food, but you still don't want to eat them every single day. Will a banana kill a low carber, no of course not, but you should try to err on the side of lower sugar fruits like berries.

    I'm glad what you did worked for you, that's awesome, but more often than not people are yo-yo dieting or starving themselves, or eating poor quality or horrible tasting foods in the quest to loose weight, when they could eat a more natural whole food diet with more carb restriction and break the cycle.

    There's more than one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes, but I'd be willing to bet that there are more efficient ways of doing it.


    Excuse me but why are you being such a ***** to everyone on here. Are you a dietian?? Are you the all mighty god of carbs?? Seriously slow your roll. Something might of worked for you but maybe you shouldn't jump down everyone's throat. Chill the hell out and pick up a medical book. Because I for one am in the medical field so I think I might know a thing or two.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679


    Excuse me but why are you being such a ***** to everyone on here. Are you a dietian?? Are you the all mighty god of carbs?? Seriously slow your roll. Something might of worked for you but maybe you shouldn't jump down everyone's throat. Chill the hell out and pick up a medical book. Because I for one am in the medical field so I think I might know a thing or two.

    Being in the medical field doesn't mean a whole lot if what they teach in medical school about diet is false.
  • Cindym82
    Cindym82 Posts: 1,245 Member

    Being in the medical field doesn't mean a whole lot if what they teach in medical school about diet is false.

    Have you been to medical school?
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679

    Have you been to medical school?

    Are you trying to make the point that what is taught in medical school is different than what the American Heart Association, NIH, and other health organizations say about diet?
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member

    That is not possible. Everything, including fruits, vegetables and nuts contain protein. They are getting protein from somewhere.........

    Some eat only the medical food. I'm not going to argue the point. Surely you know how to use Google.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member

    Being in the medical field doesn't mean a whole lot if what they teach in medical school about diet is false.

    That might be true, but luckily what is taught is not false.
  • Cindym82
    Cindym82 Posts: 1,245 Member

    Are you trying to make the point that what is taught in medical school is different than what the American Heart Association, NIH, and other health organizations say about diet?

    Yes I am, so obviously you have never been to medical school nor do you work in healthcare. So until your experience one or both than maybe you shouldn't talk out of your *kitten*. Cause now you're just being annoying. You have no clue what you're even talking about
  • Cindym82
    Cindym82 Posts: 1,245 Member

    That might be true, but luckily what is taught is not false.


    It's not false what they teach she is just being silly
  • snookumss
    snookumss Posts: 1,451 Member
    If you eat a low carb diet, you will eat less calories. Plain and simple.

    I was eating 125g to 150g of protein a day. 50-60g of fat a day. My carbs, ranging from 100-200 at least, filled the rest of the space in calories every day. I ate about 1700 calories a day.

    I cut carbs to a strict 100g, 60g of fat, 125g of protein. My calories are about 1400 a day.

    If you control it to that precise level, the only thing you should decrease is carbs because you don't want to cut any of the protein or dietary fats.

    Just my situation for your observation. :)
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679

    Yes I am, so obviously you have never been to medical school nor do you work in healthcare. So until your experience one or both than maybe you shouldn't talk out of your *kitten*. Cause now you're just being annoying. You have no clue what you're even talking about

    So I suppose we should all be on low-fat, high-carb well-balanced diets?
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679

    AND now that I read your bio I can see what a joke you really are. First off you didn't just "fall" back into a standard american diet, you decided that you didn't care about yourself, or your wife, or your son. If you were really in the military you'd know diets and exercise, esp. exercise. My whole family has been either in military, police, or fire dept...you don't just "fall" into being lazy. And there is NO WAY you lifted what you say you did and than just gave up. Seriously go away cause now you're just pathetic

    Who are you even talking to here?
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    If you eat a low carb diet, you will eat less calories. Plain and simple.

    Why doesn't the person replace the energy void with more fat and protein? If carbs are over-eaten for no apparent reason, why wouldn't fat and protein also be over-eaten?
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