Low Calories, or Low Carbs? What is better.....

RonSwanson66

So I suppose we should all be on low-fat, high-carb well-balanced diets?

False dichotomy.

The universe can count higher than two, can you?

bcattoes

Excuse me but why are you being such a ***** to everyone on here. Are you a dietian?? Are you the all mighty god of carbs?? Seriously slow your roll. Something might of worked for you but maybe you shouldn't jump down everyone's throat. Chill the hell out and pick up a medical book. Because I for one am in the medical field so I think I might know a thing or two.

Being in the medical field doesn't mean a whole lot if what they teach in medical school about diet is false.

Have you been to medical school?

Are you trying to make the point that what is taught in medical school is different than what the American Heart Association, NIH, and other health organizations say about diet?

Yes I am, so obviously you have never been to medical school nor do you work in healthcare. So until your experience one or both than maybe you shouldn't talk out of your *kitten*. Cause now you're just being annoying. You have no clue what you're even talking about

So I suppose we should all be on low-fat, high-carb well-balanced diets?

We should not all be on the same diet. People's bodies work in different ways. Genetics, lifestyle and disease can greatly affect what is the optimal way to eat for an individual.

grinch031

Excuse me but why are you being such a ***** to everyone on here. Are you a dietian?? Are you the all mighty god of carbs?? Seriously slow your roll. Something might of worked for you but maybe you shouldn't jump down everyone's throat. Chill the hell out and pick up a medical book. Because I for one am in the medical field so I think I might know a thing or two.

Being in the medical field doesn't mean a whole lot if what they teach in medical school about diet is false.

Have you been to medical school?

Are you trying to make the point that what is taught in medical school is different than what the American Heart Association, NIH, and other health organizations say about diet?

Yes I am, so obviously you have never been to medical school nor do you work in healthcare. So until your experience one or both than maybe you shouldn't talk out of your *kitten*. Cause now you're just being annoying. You have no clue what you're even talking about

So I suppose we should all be on low-fat, high-carb well-balanced diets?

We should not all be on the same diet. People's bodies work in different ways. Genetics, lifestyle and disease can greatly affect what is the optimal way to eat for an individual.

Ok, just sort of lost track of what your real stance is on the issue.

But since there is a rather large set of the population that has insulin resistance, a low-carb diet can be the optimal diet for them.

bcattoes

Excuse me but why are you being such a ***** to everyone on here. Are you a dietian?? Are you the all mighty god of carbs?? Seriously slow your roll. Something might of worked for you but maybe you shouldn't jump down everyone's throat. Chill the hell out and pick up a medical book. Because I for one am in the medical field so I think I might know a thing or two.

Being in the medical field doesn't mean a whole lot if what they teach in medical school about diet is false.

Have you been to medical school?

Are you trying to make the point that what is taught in medical school is different than what the American Heart Association, NIH, and other health organizations say about diet?

Yes I am, so obviously you have never been to medical school nor do you work in healthcare. So until your experience one or both than maybe you shouldn't talk out of your *kitten*. Cause now you're just being annoying. You have no clue what you're even talking about

So I suppose we should all be on low-fat, high-carb well-balanced diets?

We should not all be on the same diet. People's bodies work in different ways. Genetics, lifestyle and disease can greatly affect what is the optimal way to eat for an individual.

Ok, just sort of lost track of what your real stance is on the issue.

But since there is a rather large set of the population that has insulin resistance, a low-carb diet can be the optimal diet for them.

I completely agree. I know low carb can be healthy for most people, and some people can't be healthy without it. But it's not necessary or even ideal for all.

BTW, I didn't write all that odd stuff about medical school and working in the medical field. I kind of jumped into the conversation.

grinch031

I completely agree. I know low carb can be healthy for most people, and some people can't be healthy without it. But it's not necessary or even ideal for all.

BTW, I didn't write all that odd stuff about medical school and working in the medical field. I kind of jumped into the conversation.

I guess my point is that I don't think whole grains are necessary or ideal for anybody really either. And there really isn't evidence to support the necessity of it.

bcattoes

I completely agree. I know low carb can be healthy for most people, and some people can't be healthy without it. But it's not necessary or even ideal for all.

BTW, I didn't write all that odd stuff about medical school and working in the medical field. I kind of jumped into the conversation.

I guess my point is that I don't think whole grains are necessary or ideal for anybody really either. And there really isn't evidence to support the necessity of it.

Necessity? Perhaps not. But there is evidence of health benefits. I eat to keep myself as healthy as possible, not just to stay alive. There is evidence that whole grains will assist in keeping me healthy. Plus, I enjoy eating them. Life, for me, is not all about necessity.

grinch031

I completely agree. I know low carb can be healthy for most people, and some people can't be healthy without it. But it's not necessary or even ideal for all.

BTW, I didn't write all that odd stuff about medical school and working in the medical field. I kind of jumped into the conversation.

I guess my point is that I don't think whole grains are necessary or ideal for anybody really either. And there really isn't evidence to support the necessity of it.

Necessity? Perhaps not. But there is evidence of health benefits. I eat to keep myself as healthy as possible, not just to stay alive. There is evidence that whole grains will assist in keeping me healthy. Plus, I enjoy eating them. Life, for me, is not all about necessity.

There is also evidence of health benefits by not eating them. It can swing both ways.

bcattoes

I completely agree. I know low carb can be healthy for most people, and some people can't be healthy without it. But it's not necessary or even ideal for all.

BTW, I didn't write all that odd stuff about medical school and working in the medical field. I kind of jumped into the conversation.

I guess my point is that I don't think whole grains are necessary or ideal for anybody really either. And there really isn't evidence to support the necessity of it.

Necessity? Perhaps not. But there is evidence of health benefits. I eat to keep myself as healthy as possible, not just to stay alive. There is evidence that whole grains will assist in keeping me healthy. Plus, I enjoy eating them. Life, for me, is not all about necessity.

There is also evidence of health benefits by not eating them. It can swing both ways.

I have never seen a study showing health benefits achieved by a healthy person cutting out whole grains. Can you provide the study name or a link (please don't send a link to a blog).

sixxfan4ever

I am pre diabetic and over weight and need to watch my calories and my carbs each day. I dont see what is wrong with watching both.

Marll

Excuse me but why are you being such a ***** to everyone on here. Are you a dietian?? Are you the all mighty god of carbs?? Seriously slow your roll. Something might of worked for you but maybe you shouldn't jump down everyone's throat. Chill the hell out and pick up a medical book. Because I for one am in the medical field so I think I might know a thing or two.

Ah, I seem to have shaken the bee hive. Typical response from most people on MFP when their all mighty grain and carb gods start to get offended. The usual "You're being and *kitten*", "How dare you tell give people an opinion or start a lively debate" and "I'm in the medical field, I know better than you do!!"

I love when people throw out the "I'm a nurse" or "Doctors say it's healty so it must be!!". Some of the fattest, most unhealthy people I've ever met in my life have been nurses, I'm not about to take advice from them.

It's great that you can swallow the dogma that's been getting taught for years in medical school all the while oblivious to the fact that as a whole, people consuming western diets (especially Americans), continue to get fatter, more disease ridden, and need more pharmaceuticals than ever before in the entire history of mankind.....yeah something must be working, we're all just doing it wrong.

At one time everyone knew that the world was flat, at one time everyone knew that tomatoes were poisonous, at one time everyone knew you could cure disease by going to the barber and being bled to release disease....all of these things have been proven false, is it so hard to believe that there is another way, a more natural way to keep people healthy with diet. I really doubt that we'd have survived millions of years as a people if every disease that comes up these days was prevelant throughout our history.

Through archeology it's shown that human health took a nose dive right around the time that agriculture became more common, and grains and such started getting consumed. I'm just thinking that maybe we should keep an eye on the past while moving forward.

Just_Bethy

I'm really averse to low carb diets for several reasons. First and foremost is your body's need for energy. Without going into a huge bio lesson on ATP in your cells, I'm just going to point out that simple sugars, like carbs, are easy for your body to break down into their chemical components and can be quickly converted into energy for the functions of your body. Other nutrients can be broken down for this, too, but the process takes much longer, and wouldn't you rather have the protein you consume go toward building healthy muscle instead of being used as fuel? My second problem with low-carb dieting, is that it is impossible to maintain long term, and many people who participate in low-carb eating habits gain a lot of weight back once they add carbohydrates back into their diets.

source: my soon-to-be bio degree.

Also for some people the emotional toll is dreadful..I have terrible anxiety, depression and aggression on low carb diets Much rather be balanced...(I am on a 55% carb 25% protein and 20% fat ... the slightly higher carbs make me a much happier person and like this poster says..its easier to keep on keeping on when you are happy!)

grinch031

I completely agree. I know low carb can be healthy for most people, and some people can't be healthy without it. But it's not necessary or even ideal for all.

BTW, I didn't write all that odd stuff about medical school and working in the medical field. I kind of jumped into the conversation.

I guess my point is that I don't think whole grains are necessary or ideal for anybody really either. And there really isn't evidence to support the necessity of it.

Necessity? Perhaps not. But there is evidence of health benefits. I eat to keep myself as healthy as possible, not just to stay alive. There is evidence that whole grains will assist in keeping me healthy. Plus, I enjoy eating them. Life, for me, is not all about necessity.

There is also evidence of health benefits by not eating them. It can swing both ways.

I have never seen a study showing health benefits achieved by a healthy person cutting out whole grains. Can you provide the study name or a link (please don't send a link to a blog).

Can you provide evidence that a person who is healthy both before and after the study showed health benefits by adding whole grains?

bcattoes

I love when people throw out the "I'm a nurse" or "Doctors say it's healty so it must be!!". Some of the fattest, most unhealthy people I've ever met in my life have been nurses, I'm not about to take advice from them.

It's great that you can swallow the dogma that's been getting taught for years in medical school all the while oblivious to the fact that as a whole, people consuming western diets (especially Americans), continue to get fatter, more disease ridden, and need more pharmaceuticals than ever before in the entire history of mankind.....yeah something must be working, we're all just doing it wrong.

Many Americans are unhealthy and overweight because they eat the wrong type of foods, not because they are eating too many total carbs. We also eat too much processed meats and not enough fruits and vegetables.

Medical Schools teach that dietary carbohydrates should come from unprocessed or minimally processed whole grains, vegetables and fruits and it's best to avoid processed carbs and sugar. Doctors and medical organizations preach the same thing. And they are right. Just because people ignore that advice does not make if wrong.

Marll

AND now that I read your bio I can see what a joke you really are. First off you didn't just "fall" back into a standard american diet, you decided that you didn't care about yourself, or your wife, or your son. If you were really in the military you'd know diets and exercise, esp. exercise. My whole family has been either in military, police, or fire dept...you don't just "fall" into being lazy. And there is NO WAY you lifted what you say you did and than just gave up. Seriously go away cause now you're just pathetic

Ah, attacking personal character when exhausting rational arguments?

I can assure you that you can "fall" back into a standard american diet, it's very easy when surrounded by bad food choices and you are perhaps in a bad situation that leads to stress or depression, crappy food can be very comforting in a way. Are you saying that a person cannot also fall into drug use when things go bad...it's practically the same thing, self medicating with food. Secondly when you are paying your own way through college taking more than a full load (18 credit hours a semester) and working full time in a stressful job (FedEx dock manager) and you are strained financially it can catch up to you. I ate like I was still working out hard and running 30-40 miles a week in the Army and the weight just piled on. I could not make time to exercise and ate on the run. My days started at 3am and after work, school, homework my day ended typically at 12am. Wash rinse repeat for 3.5 years and see how you do.

So I loose the weight, keep it off for several years and then find myself in a toxic, stressful, soul-crushing job. I made a decsion to eat something that I shouldn't have (peanut M&Ms instead of some pork rinds) and it all started again. One poor choice with little perceived effect led to another and then another. I applaud you if you are such a strong willed person that you have never experienced this kind of reaction, but I would refrain from personal attacks unless you know the real score. I can also assure you (though I'm sure that you don't really give a rats *kitten* at this point) that those lifting numbers are real. I don't need to make crap up to make friends on the internet, I do just fine in real life. Ever heard the phrase "**** happens" well, **** happened to me

Secondly I never stopped caring about my wife and I didn't have a son until 2 years ago, so I suggest taking a chill pill yourself and not commenting on things that you actually have no idea about. The only mention of wife and son were under inspirations in my bio, I assure you that my care for them has never diminished at all, but only to get healthier and be around longer.

As for the military comment, I'll have to get a bit indignant here, why don't you go F yourself? Until you have served you have no clue what you are talking about. I'm a 3rd generation soldier and my own father was a lifer, 20 years in. I can certainly attest to PLENTY of veterans that do not maintain the rigourous exercise regemin when they get out, and the military teaches nothing of nutrition, you eat what you are given because you are driven hard every day and hungry and grateful for food. The stuff I ate was not horrible per se, but it is meant to keep a fighting force fueled not to be especially wholesome or tasty. Go eat some K-ration eggs or some of the many MRE types (make sure you freeze and thaw them several times to simulate field conditions) and get back to me.

Also calling out fire and police as a paragon of fitness and non-laziness is hilarious. I know personally several fire fighters and a couple are on the verge of being morbidly obese and are protected by their unions from being fired. I've also met some pretty fat cops too.

grinch031

I love when people throw out the "I'm a nurse" or "Doctors say it's healty so it must be!!". Some of the fattest, most unhealthy people I've ever met in my life have been nurses, I'm not about to take advice from them.

It's great that you can swallow the dogma that's been getting taught for years in medical school all the while oblivious to the fact that as a whole, people consuming western diets (especially Americans), continue to get fatter, more disease ridden, and need more pharmaceuticals than ever before in the entire history of mankind.....yeah something must be working, we're all just doing it wrong.

Many Americans are unhealthy and overweight because they eat the wrong type of foods, not because they are eating too many total carbs. We also eat too much processed meats and not enough fruits and vegetables.

Medical Schools teach that dietary carbohydrates should come from unprocessed or minimally processed whole grains, vegetables and fruits and it's best to avoid processed carbs and sugar. Doctors and medical organizations preach the same thing. And they are right. Just because people ignore that advice does not make if wrong.

And they also teach that people should eat low-fat diets. What else is new?

MissBettyBoop2

I've been watching my calories and eating healthy. So far it is working!! Eighty-seven pounds lost so far..

bcattoes

I completely agree. I know low carb can be healthy for most people, and some people can't be healthy without it. But it's not necessary or even ideal for all.

BTW, I didn't write all that odd stuff about medical school and working in the medical field. I kind of jumped into the conversation.

I guess my point is that I don't think whole grains are necessary or ideal for anybody really either. And there really isn't evidence to support the necessity of it.

Necessity? Perhaps not. But there is evidence of health benefits. I eat to keep myself as healthy as possible, not just to stay alive. There is evidence that whole grains will assist in keeping me healthy. Plus, I enjoy eating them. Life, for me, is not all about necessity.

There is also evidence of health benefits by not eating them. It can swing both ways.

I have never seen a study showing health benefits achieved by a healthy person cutting out whole grains. Can you provide the study name or a link (please don't send a link to a blog).

Can you provide evidence that a person who is healthy both before and after the study showed health benefits by adding whole grains?

A study suggsting that a healthy person got healthier by eating whole grains? Perhaps not, as it would be pretty impossible to become more disease free if you were already disease free. But there are studies suggesting whole grains help you remain disease free.

In the Harvard-based Nurses' Health Study, women who ate 2 to 3 servings of whole-grain products (mostly bread and breakfast cereals) each day were 30 percent less likely to have a heart attack or die from heart disease over a 10-year period than women who ate less than 1 serving per week.
(Liu S, Stampfer MJ, Hu FB, et al. Whole-grain consumption and risk of coronary heart disease: results from the Nurses' Health Study. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1999; 70:412-9.)

A meta-analysis of seven major studies showed that cardiovascular disease (heart attack, stroke, or the need for a procedure to bypass or open a clogged artery) was 21 percent less likely in people who ate 2.5 or more servings of whole-grain foods a day compared with those who ate less than 2 servings a week.
(Mellen PB, Walsh TF, Herrington DM. Whole grain intake and cardiovascular disease: A meta-analysis. Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2007)

In a study of more than 160,000 women whose health and dietary habits were followed for up to 18 years, those who averaged 2 to 3 servings of whole grains a day were 30 percent less likely to have developed type 2 diabetes than those who rarely ate whole grains. (de Munter JS, Hu FB, Spiegelman D, Franz M, van Dam RM. Whole grain, bran, and germ intake and risk of type 2 diabetes: a prospective cohort study and systematic review. PLoS Med. 2007; 4:e261.) When the researchers combined these results with those of several other large studies, they found that eating an extra 2 servings of whole grains a day decreased the risk of type 2 diabetes by 21 percent.

An intriguing report from the Iowa Women's Health Study linked whole-grain consumption with fewer deaths from noncardiac, noncancer causes. Compared with women who rarely or never ate whole-grain foods, those who had at least two or more servings a day were 30 percent less likely to have died from an inflammation-related condition over a 17-year period.
(Jacobs DR, Jr., Andersen LF, Blomhoff R. Whole-grain consumption is associated with a reduced risk of noncardiovascular, noncancer death attributed to inflammatory diseases in the Iowa Women's Health Study. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 2007; 85:1606-14.)

bcattoes

Medical Schools teach that dietary carbohydrates should come from unprocessed or minimally processed whole grains, vegetables and fruits and it's best to avoid processed carbs and sugar. Doctors and medical organizations preach the same thing. And they are right. Just because people ignore that advice does not make if wrong.

And they also teach that people should eat low-fat diets. What else is new?

Which medical school teaches that? ,

Marll

I certainly wouldn't be able to say what schools, but it sure seems like that is the stance that is taken by doctors (at least everyone that I have met so far), nurses, certain other groups like the American Heart Association, the media, just about everybody (though it is slowly turning around) preaches a low fat diet as the secret to weightloss, health and longevity.

The last time I had a nurse who had to be at least 350lbs tell me that I had to lay off low carb and fats or I'd get sick and fat, and potentially die I stopped listening to anything that most doctors that cling to conventional wisdom say.

tigersword

OK, enough with the low carb is great, high carb is evil/high carb is great, low carb is evil debate. It's irrelevant, and everybody on either side is for the most part arguing about stuff that isn't real. The "Western Diet" isn't killing people. If it was, Western Civilization would've died out hundreds of years ago. People are on more medications now, because there are now medications for them. 100 years ago, they weren't on these medications, because they didn't exist, and those people just died. Also, most people that are getting sick with metabolic disorders tend to be older. Again, this wasn't a big deal in the past because the average person didn't live long enough to get there.

There is no hard, scientific, long term study that shows that any one diet is superior to any other diet.

The bottom line, people aren't as active as they once were, and are eating more total food than ever, and that's the entire reason for the obesity epidemic. Those are the real facts. So can we finish this silly, pointless argument, now?