Why Aren't Low-Carb Diets Official Advice for Type 2 Diabeti

AZackery

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but lo-carb can be very dangerous if not matched to exogenous insulin intake or exercise output (many diabetics may require up to one extra carbohydrate exchange per 30min exercise, which is important to take into account if they are trying to lose weight). It's really an individual thing and if people aren't getting information they feel comfortable with from their doctors, go to a certifified diabetes educator.

A person with diabetes is supposed to be assigned to a diabetic doctor and not just a regular doctor. They also supposed to see a diabetic nutritionist and not a regular nutritionist.

funkycamper

It was certified diabetes educators and nutritionists that told me to increase my carb intake (and lower my fats) which resulted in hypoglycemic episodes.

CharlieLopez2005

I really hope not to ruffle any additional feathers towards a topic that obviously many are quite passionate about. Dare I venture to say that if one already knows that carbs can cause an increase in blood sugars & its probably best NOT to follow the doctor's orders than why follow them? I would merely suggest "LISTENING" as to what the doctors may advise, but since they are individuals you are paying, you have every right to seek advice else where to make a better more sound choice for yourself or your family members. Yes I speak from experience. My daughter, 9 at the time, was diagnosed with diabetes. Her sugars often hit so high that glucose meters could not read them. She spent many a night hospitalized as doctors tried to determine how they should approach her diabetes. I became quite famiilar with the diabetic world & had to become the actual pin cushion. (So not fun) Through diet & yes plenty of carb counting, I am happy to report that my daughter has hit her 3rd honeymoon phase of diabetes (medically uncommon). My point is that if you know carb counting is best & you have access to research etc, than use YOUR information/research & challenge the doctors. They work for YOU...fire them if you don't agree with their medical advise.

That's awesome your daughter has done so well! I absolutely agree with you on listening but also challenging doctors. Patients shouldn't just blindly accept everything a doctor says on faith just because they have a white coat and title. But if a patient never does sufficient research on their own, they'll never ask more than softball questions.

CharlieLopez2005

....A low carb diet will help anyone lose scale weight, but what about fat loss? Scale weight loss and fat loss aren't the same thing.

A diabetic needs to know what's going on with their body. If you are on a low carb diet and you are dropping weight fast, you need to check into why this is happening.

At least in my own experience, I've been able to drop 33% body fat (from 50% down to 17% now) over the past 14 months on a low-carb diet.

Larius

Because it is still a fairly new therapy. Many doctors may not be educated on it yet.

You should learn about Richard K. Bernstein. He has been pivotal in the acceptance of low-carb diets and blood glucose monitoring for diabetics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_K._Bernstein

His book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316182699/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0316099066&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1H43X4HMGNZSBR8RP7TJ

AZackery

....A low carb diet will help anyone lose scale weight, but what about fat loss? Scale weight loss and fat loss aren't the same thing.

A diabetic needs to know what's going on with their body. If you are on a low carb diet and you are dropping weight fast, you need to check into why this is happening.

At least in my own experience, I've been able to drop 33% body fat (from 50% down to 17% now) over the past 14 months on a low-carb diet.

That's good.

AdAstra47

....A low carb diet will help anyone lose scale weight, but what about fat loss? Scale weight loss and fat loss aren't the same thing.

A diabetic needs to know what's going on with their body. If you are on a low carb diet and you are dropping weight fast, you need to check into why this is happening.

At least in my own experience, I've been able to drop 33% body fat (from 50% down to 17% now) over the past 14 months on a low-carb diet.

This is my experience as well. Since my doctor put me on a low-carb, high-protein diet, I have dropped over 55 lb per the scale. But each month, he tests my BMI. Regardless of how accurate you think those tests are, it's the same machine at the same time of day and same general time of the month each time, and every time it shows my fat & water weight steadily decreasing while my muscle mass has actually *increased* slightly. My doc says that over the last 9 months, I've lost roughly 60 lb of fat & water. And I've gained around 6 lb of muscle.

But you're correct that weight loss shouldn't be too fast. Losing weight too quickly can be just as dangerous as being overweight in the first place. I average a little over 1 lb per week, and that's just fine with me. It adds up!

Grokette

Diabetics should keep ketone sticks on hand at all times. A lot of glucometer machines let a diabetic know when ketone are present. Ketone is present in a diabetic, when they aren't getting enough carbohydrates. The body will start breaking down fat and making ketone when this happens and your blood sugar will be high. If you see ketone display on your glucometer, call your doctor or the hospital hot line to have a nurse call you back to tell you what to do. While you are waiting for a call back, test your urine to see how much ketone is in your urine.

A low carb diet will help anyone lose scale weight, but what about fat loss? Scale weight loss and fat loss aren't the same thing.

A diabetic needs to know what's going on with their body. If you are on a low carb diet and you are dropping weight fast, you need to check into why this is happening.

You are confusing ketosis and ketoacidosis - 2 very different conditions.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with burning fat and producing ketones in someone that is diabetic and otherwise healthy and normal. Actually it is best because you know your body is burning fat and therefore will be easier to control blood sugars.

tigersword

The only potential problem with ketosis in diabetics is it's much easier for them to slip into ketoacidosis.

AZackery

Diabetics should keep ketone sticks on hand at all times. A lot of glucometer machines let a diabetic know when ketone are present. Ketone is present in a diabetic, when they aren't getting enough carbohydrates. The body will start breaking down fat and making ketone when this happens and your blood sugar will be high. If you see ketone display on your glucometer, call your doctor or the hospital hot line to have a nurse call you back to tell you what to do. While you are waiting for a call back, test your urine to see how much ketone is in your urine.

A low carb diet will help anyone lose scale weight, but what about fat loss? Scale weight loss and fat loss aren't the same thing.

A diabetic needs to know what's going on with their body. If you are on a low carb diet and you are dropping weight fast, you need to check into why this is happening.

You are confusing ketosis and ketoacidosis - 2 very different conditions.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with burning fat and producing ketones in someone that is diabetic and otherwise healthy and normal. Actually it is best because you know your body is burning fat and therefore will be easier to control blood sugars.

I'm not confusing them. When a diabetic's blood sugar is high, their glucometer machine will read ketone. They need to make sure they have ketone sticks available to test their urine. A diabetic shouldn't play with ketone. This is dangerous. A diabetic doctor will tell you this.

abhishek2610

Hi I am new to MFP .

It is an extremely good web site for fitness program tracking food & exercise on same time .

I had stared loosing weight even with out exercise .
the FP was initially 226 & PP 386

but got down(after exercise to 100 , 140.i am still loosing weight .lost 8 inch of waist .

IS IT DANGEROUS .i am not taking any medication & only taking diet .

lyttlewon

Could you point me in the direction of a journal article which shows that high cholesterol causes strokes? I'd also be quite interested in reading some papers which show a link between dietary fat and serum cholesterol levels.

My mom had a TIA at the beginning of August and the Neurologist went over this, but I don't have any articles. You can Google TIA and Cholesterol. The Cholesterol causes plaque issues and heart issues that contribute to a stroke. It isn't a cholesterol=stroke equation. Her TIA wasn't caused by Cholesterol though.

I know this isn't an journal article but it gives reasoning:

http://www.stroke.org/site/PageServer?pagename=cholesterol

drmerc

That is one hell of a bump for this horrible thread lol

TexasTroy

WOW, I gotta admit, this is one confusing thread...ppl heading off in all sorts of directions, some not even close to the original topic of " why arent low carb diets official advice for type 2 diabetes? "

lyttlewon

Holy crap I didn't notice how old this thing was. HILARIOUS! :drinker:

maalbrech

Here's what I don't understand: compared to a non-diabetic, a type 2 diabetic's body doesn't handle carbohydrate intake that well, but instead of the obvious, logical response of dispensing a low-carb diet, the Conventional Wisdom advice is to recommend a low-fat diet instead (which ipso facto usually means a higher-carb intake to compensate). Why is there this wide disconnect? Am I somehow missing the evidence that upping carb intake (via a low-fat diet) for a Type 2 Diabetic improves their overall health?

At my heaviest, when my doctor thought I was on the road to prediabetes (with the 2-hour glucose tolerance reading at 138), he sent me to the dietician who in turn recommended that I cut my FAT intake to 50g per day. Not even a whisper about carbs. And my mom, who through years of Type 2 Diabetes, has End Stage Renal failure and is currently on kidney dialysis, still has her doctors recommend that she consume lots of fruits, like oranges. One time, I was actually with my mom at the hospital when her nephrologist made this same recommendation. I interjected, "but doctor, you know that my mom has a long history of Type 2 Diabetes and kidney failure, isn't eating an orange for her potentially dangerous?" He responded that "Well, it's natural sugars instead of processed sugars." I said, "Ah, how exactly is her body able tell the difference once digested?" to which he thought for a minute and recommended that she see a dietician instead (who would probably dispense the same advice with a different title).

I know for myself, when I eat more fruits my blood sugar goes lower. I also need to watch my fat intake as well. I have been fighting type 2 diabetes for 12 years now. The fruits have sugar in them yes. However the carbs in fruit are complex carbs, which the body breaks down slower, so the release of sugar into the body is slower. Overall blood sugars will be lower. The biggest problem I have is lack of exercise. When it hurts to move, you don't want to exercise. If I don't use it, I will lose it. So I just deal with the increased pain. That attitude has kept me out of a wheel chair 11 years(and counting) longer than the Doctors said it would.

sjbmouse

Fat needs to be monitored as well as carbohydrates, because too much fat causes more insulin resistance. I have type II diabetes; my daughter is a type 1 diabetic since childhood. They are both called diabetes, but they are 2 very different diseases. I take insulin and my carb count is coordinated with that. My twin sister has type II diabetes also, but she doesn't take insulin; she takes oral medicines. I am a vegetarian my sister isn't. She has kidney disease and I don't. It has nothing to do with being vegetarian. She follows the strictest diet counting calcium, protein, potassium as well as carbs and fat. She has an awful time getting variety. Some diabetics have eye problems, some have circulation problems and some have kidney problems. etc., etc. Each person has to monitor his or her own nutritional needs. Though there are basic rules, we are all affected differently.

mtapia713

Low carb diets are called Carb controlled or carb counting diets and they are the standard recomendation for Type 2 Diabetics. Just look at the American Diabetes Association Website.
http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/planning-meals/carb-counting/
The general rule of thumb is 45-60 grams of carbs per meal but that is just that a general rule of thumb if a patient needs a lower amount or higher amount various reasons (activity level, weight, medication, weight lost or gained ect.) then it would be adjusted.

grinch031

I'm sure Ancel Keys had something to do with it.

SanteMulberry

Here's what I don't understand: compared to a non-diabetic, a type 2 diabetic's body doesn't handle carbohydrate intake that well, but instead of the obvious, logical response of dispensing a low-carb diet, the Conventional Wisdom advice is to recommend a low-fat diet instead (which ipso facto usually means a higher-carb intake to compensate). Why is there this wide disconnect? Am I somehow missing the evidence that upping carb intake (via a low-fat diet) for a Type 2 Diabetic improves their overall health?

At my heaviest, when my doctor thought I was on the road to prediabetes (with the 2-hour glucose tolerance reading at 138), he sent me to the dietician who in turn recommended that I cut my FAT intake to 50g per day. Not even a whisper about carbs. And my mom, who through years of Type 2 Diabetes, has End Stage Renal failure and is currently on kidney dialysis, still has her doctors recommend that she consume lots of fruits, like oranges. One time, I was actually with my mom at the hospital when her nephrologist made this same recommendation. I interjected, "but doctor, you know that my mom has a long history of Type 2 Diabetes and kidney failure, isn't eating an orange for her potentially dangerous?" He responded that "Well, it's natural sugars instead of processed sugars." I said, "Ah, how exactly is her body able tell the difference once digested?" to which he thought for a minute and recommended that she see a dietician instead (who would probably dispense the same advice with a different title).

Yes. My brother has Type II diabetes and the first thing his doc did was to put him on a low-fat diet. My brother was allowed to eat anything he wanted as long as it was low-fat! So he would proceed to eat a whole package of fat-free cookies, etc. per day.:huh: His diabetes, of course, got way worse and he is now on insulin. I had pre-diabetes symptoms (sleepiness after meals) and since I am at increased risk (obesity, gestational diabetes and a sibling with diabetes) I decided I'd better read up on preventing it. I decided to go on the Paleo diet (which, as you know is a lower-carb diet). I have dropped 14 pounds, my blood pressure has dropped so much that I have been able to cut out most of my B.P. medication and I have energy to spare these days so I am able to be more active within limits (I have osteo-arthritis, but it is improving with the new diet). My brother, on the other hand, takes a basket full of medicine for his arthritis and B,P. and is scheduled for knee-replacement surgery. :sick:

One sometimes wonders whether the medical establishment really wants to help people when you see the lousy dietary recommendations. Heart disease researchers have known for a great many years that eating cholesterol has no relationship to heart disease--that it is caused by an inflammatory response that is related to poor diet (especially high sugar consumption) and stress (in addition to genetic factors) yet they still trot out the, "Don't eat eggs or red meat if you want to avoid heart disease" at every turn.

SanteMulberry

It's like Dr's walk around with a Paper bag over their heads when it comes to the dangers of carbohydrate intake! After pushing Low Fat/ Low Calorie diets, the obesity rate went up!!! Why is that? Because people are eating an insane amount of carbs a day. Those 90 calorie packs of chips, cookies, little cups of fruit filled with sugar, and the list goes on.

What doctors don't realize is that by restricting carb intake, getting a grip on blood sugar levels becomes much easier!

What the medical establishment knows about healthy diet is minuscule, unfortunately. :sad: The only good dietary recommendation that I ever got was to increase fruits and vegetables. But they still insist that we should be eating bread as long as it is whole wheat bread. The only reason for eating grain is when there is famine (grain is a non-perishable way to store calories for consumption during famine). Modern wheats are not very healthy because they have been bred to have a high-gluten content and many people have serious gut issues with a high-gluten diet. The other problem with eating whole grain is that it is very high in phytic acid and phytic acid blocks the uptake of important macro-minerals like iron, magnesium, and zinc. Ironically, the switch to whole grain bread from white bread is likely responsible for causing anemia in children and magnesium and zinc deficiency in everyone. :frown:

sjbrenda

that advice sounds " old school" my daughter is a R.D.
She definitely concentrates on carb intake . Her advice to me, no more than 30 at a snack ,no more than 60 at a meal,no matter the source, can't carry them over use them or loose them, trying to follow that plan , her patients have had great success stories. I am not giving medical advice but she gets really freaked when the "professionals " give outdated advice.

justjenn1977

please stop with this nonsense, what are the dangers of carbohydrate intake?

correlation =/= causation

I'm sure people becoming more sedentary and increasing overall caloric intake played no part in the rising obesity rate, it was all the evil evil carbs

I agree...

when I was first diagnosed with diabetes I was instructed to try the Atkins diet... 2 weeks on phase 1 put me <--> this close to liver failure... I *STILL* (12 years later) have enlarged liver and elevated liver function levels...

I now eat a lot of complex carbs... mainly calorie controlled with a lot of exercise... have lost 77# and am no longer diabetic...

simple carbohydrate intake does have a correlation with diabetes...

but it is about so much more than just carbs

abhishek2610

hi Mam

can please quote few glucometer with ketone analyser.

eandrsmom

I had gestational diabetes with both my pregnancies, very early onset with the second. I followed my prescribed diet religiously and managed to stay off insulin. My nutritionist definitely had me on low carb, in fact all I measured was carbs. Depending on the meal or snack, I fluctuated between 15 and 45 carbs, usually for a max of 90 grams in a day. What amazed me was that they type of food would impact my blood sugar significantly. I could eat a bowl of ice cream but not a bowl of brown rice.

funkycamper

Funny how we're all different. That's why I think it's important to experiment and test yourself after all meals and snacks (1, 2 and 3 hours) until you get a good handle on what your body can handle well without a sharp BG spike.

For me, whole wheat bread, fruit, rice, beans, oatmeal, and similar complex carbohydrates raise my BG levels just as much as a piece of pastry, cookie, ice cream, etc., as long as we're comparing similar calorie values. So, yeah, I can eat more rice than cookies quantity-wise than I can cookies but I still need to be careful with them and keep them in small servings. And I really need to always eat a protein with any kind of carb, complex or not, to minimize spikes. I can eat more of any kind of carbs, including fruit, if I do it just prior to or just after intense exercise.

A higher proportion of fat in the diet doesn't negatively effect my blood sugar levels nor my other health indicators.

In essence, the amount of calories consumed per meal/snack and my activity level seem to have just as much bearing on my BG levels as what exactly those meals consist of. Not counting vegetables. I mean, it seems that I can eat as many carbs as I want at a sitting as long as those carbs are from veggies. Mostly, as long as I keep my servings smaller with multiple feedings each day and keep my protein and fat levels higher, carbs lower, and get in my exercise, I usually do quite well with my readings.

But, gosh, 30 carbs at snacks and 60 carbs at meals would spike my BG levels like crazy. Not saying that's bad advice. It probably works well for some people. Just another example that we need to test and monitor ourselves to see what works best for each of us.