Veggies vs Meat

VegesaurusRex

Okay, another string got hijacked by meat eaters which wasn't fair to the OP who was just trying to get vegetarian recipes. However, my wife did not want to be messed with by the meat lovers so I suggested opening this thread. Let's talk about the merits of vegetarianism, or if you prefer, carnivorism. And let's talk about why we are all vegetarians by design, or if you prefer, carnivores. Let's throw in physiology, anthropology, and paleo-ism. Open team tag match. GO!

_VoV

I'm really not sure THIS is the place for controversial discussions either. I'm going to see where people who enjoy debates go.

UponThisRock

I rest my case.

tidmutt

Okay, VegesarusRexiMaximus, dazzle me with your arguments as to why I should rely on correlations alone when making decisions about my health and well being (and anything else for that matter).

tidmutt

I rest my case.

I want to roll around in it's juices.

tidmutt

Okay, another string got hijacked by meat eaters which wasn't fair to the OP who was just trying to get vegetarian recipes. However, my wife did not want to be messed with by the meat lovers so I suggested opening this thread. Let's talk about the merits of vegetarianism, or if you prefer, carnivorism. And let's talk about why we are all vegetarians by design, or if you prefer, carnivores. Let's throw in physiology, anthropology, and paleo-ism. Open team tag match. GO!

Okay, lets quote the OP of the original thread:

"Well, I gave up red meat because it really just seems to not be that great for my health. It's been tied to cancer etc. Then, I just decided I wanted to give up the rest of it and really focus on getting a lot more veggies into my diet. I don't know if I will keep it up forever, but I just needed to shake up my diet a bit so I can lose some more. : ) "

She didn't just ask for recipes, just to be clear. I think much of the ensuing discussion was perfectly reasonable although some people acted like douches, but then there are always a few on every forum.

weightwatcher4life

I rest my case.

I love meat, I love meat that is well done.. but that just made me want to become a vegetable eater only

VegesaurusRex

Okay, I see you have had Stat 101, correlation vs causation. Since you are making this argument, the burden is on you to show that there is no causation. The argument was made, by the way by a Ph.D, Biochemist who not only knows something about statistics, but who, as part of a sophisticated laboratory has a resident statistician available to check correlations. I don't really expect you will be able to do a regression analysis (for simple data, Stat 102), or Pearson product moment correlation coefficient (Stat 103) I would appreciate it, however if you could give me some RATIONAL explanation of why you think there was correlation without causation. Please, not "common sense."

Thomasm198

Okay, I see you have had Stat 101, correlation vs causation. Since you are making this argument, the burden is on you to show that there is no causation. The argument was made, by the way by a Ph.D, Biochemist who not only knows something about statistics, but who, as part of a sophisticated laboratory has a resident statistician available to check correlations. I don't really expect you will be able to do a regression analysis (for simple data, Stat 102), or Pearson product moment correlation coefficient (Stat 103) I would appreciate it, however if you could give me some RATIONAL explanation of why you think there was correlation without causation. Please, not "common sense."

Can you put that into plain simple English for us normal people?

deeharley

Okay, I have a question about the red meat causing cancer. Was that red meat real red meat or the stuff that America sells and labels USDA approved?

SinIsIn

I like vegetable WITH my meat. :bigsmile:

deeharley

Okay, I see you have had Stat 101, correlation vs causation. Since you are making this argument, the burden is on you to show that there is no causation. The argument was made, by the way by a Ph.D, Biochemist who not only knows something about statistics, but who, as part of a sophisticated laboratory has a resident statistician available to check correlations. I don't really expect you will be able to do a regression analysis (for simple data, Stat 102), or Pearson product moment correlation coefficient (Stat 103) I would appreciate it, however if you could give me some RATIONAL explanation of why you think there was correlation without causation. Please, not "common sense."

Can you put that into plain simple English for us normal people?

I think he just said, "I'm smart and use big words so everyone should be a vegetarian."

Scott613

Okay, I see you have had Stat 101, correlation vs causation. Since you are making this argument, the burden is on you to show that there is no causation. The argument was made, by the way by a Ph.D, Biochemist who not only knows something about statistics, but who, as part of a sophisticated laboratory has a resident statistician available to check correlations. I don't really expect you will be able to do a regression analysis (for simple data, Stat 102), or Pearson product moment correlation coefficient (Stat 103) I would appreciate it, however if you could give me some RATIONAL explanation of why you think there was correlation without causation. Please, not "common sense."

Blah blah blah pass me a steak

HMonsterX

I rest my case.

I love meat, I love meat that is well done.. but that just made me want to become a vegetable eater only

Same here tbh. Im pretty much a carnivore, but it has to be well done, no pinkness etc.

JellyJaks

Okay, I see you have had Stat 101, correlation vs causation. Since you are making this argument, the burden is on you to show that there is no causation. The argument was made, by the way by a Ph.D, Biochemist who not only knows something about statistics, but who, as part of a sophisticated laboratory has a resident statistician available to check correlations. I don't really expect you will be able to do a regression analysis (for simple data, Stat 102), or Pearson product moment correlation coefficient (Stat 103) I would appreciate it, however if you could give me some RATIONAL explanation of why you think there was correlation without causation. Please, not "common sense."

Riiight....so using big words and trying to make other people feel stupid is how you get your jollies. I'm a pescetarian BECAUSE I CHOOSE TO BE. I feel no need to justify it especially to a pompous *kitten*. Have a nice day

VegesaurusRex

Some things cause other things to happen, and some things are either caused by the same thing, or just happen to look like they are related. For example, studies show that Finns who learn to speak other Nordic neighbors have 25% fewer illnesses than those who do not learn other Nordic languages. Can we therefore conclude that learning Swedish will help you stay healthy? Probably not. Most likely this is a correlation not a causation. Perhaps those Finns who learned Swedish were wealthier and better educated, and THAT was the reason why they avoided illnesses, i.e., they took more intelligent care of themselves.

Thomasm198

Meat and Veggies: A burger, bacon and onion rings.

Thomasm198

Some things cause other things to happen, and some things are either caused by the same thing, or just happen to look like they are related. For example, studies show that Finns who learn to speak other Nordic neighbors have 25% fewer illnesses than those who do not learn other Nordic languages. Can we therefore conclude that learning Swedish will help you stay healthy? Probably not. Most likely this is a correlation not a causation. Perhaps those Finns who learned Swedish were wealthier and better educated, and THAT was the reason why they avoided illnesses, i.e., they took more intelligent care of themselves.

EricMurano

Can't I have both?

VegesaurusRex

Okay, a poster raises a statistical objection to T. Colin Campbell's work stating, as he apparently learned in Stat 101 that what Campbell found could be a correlation not a causality. I asked him to state his objection precisely, i.e., was he using statistical methodology, or just "common sense." Now I am getting objections to using the proper statistical terms in stating my questions. I guess my question is, do people on this board want to speak English, or something else?

nukehiker

I like vegetable WITH my meat. :bigsmile:

I choose this method of food consumtion. I like a meat and a vegetable and maybe a starch with my meals. I do love red meats but have choosen to get healthier versions of these and reduce the fat. I try to eat lean proteins. that includes egg whites with breakfast. Not sure if i could ever go vegetarian since i love mean, poultry etc but good luck to those who are.