The true cause of obesity
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I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the reference to "feeding the world's population" was referring to feeding *the world's* population, not just that bit of it that has more food than it knows what to do with. We're not talking about poorer people in rich countries, we're talking about poorer people in poor countries, who rely on these kinds of high yield staple crops in order to survive. There is not enough land on earth to sustain everyone on an organic diet - if all farming went organic tomorrow billions of people would start to starve. There is no need, either, to sustain everyone on an organic diet. The fact is that humans are incredibly good at living on a massive variety of different foods, and once they get into the gut and get broken down to their constituent parts it makes less difference than you might think. If you don't want to eat corn, by all means don't eat it. But unless you have an allergy to it, or you eat too much of it, it's not a problem.Here's my take on it:
Before the agro-industrial revolution, cows were fed primarily grass, with some grains as necessary (in winter, hay shortage, etc.)
Now, cows are fed primarily corn. Beef is considerably fattier now than it was prior to this shift in diet. Cattle aren't evolved to eat corn, they're evolved to eat grass. Eating a diet they have not evolved to eat has increased their body fat.
If we eat what we evolved to eat, we won't be fat.
I agree completely, humans weren't originally were not designed to eat corn either, early in human history we didn't eat it either ... Our society eats so much corn its unbelievable. Look at the labels and do some research.. food makers have changed the name of corn products. It is in most processed foods...
Yes! It's insane. And I'm not even just talking corn.. Sugar, flour, etc.. none of it was prevalent in the "human" diet until we all started becoming overweight. That's not to say I don't eat any of those things ever, but ideally we really shouldn't.
But again, we need those foods to feed Earth's population. Before we started processing food a lot of people went hungry. Processed food isn't evil-- it allows most of the world to eat. It's amoral. It serves a purpose. We're the ones who have to decide how to use the food as a tool.
We fed the poor this cheap food but now the lowest income bracket are still the least healthy. They have the highest instance of obesity and diabetes that shorten their lives...yes they are fed, but at what cost? Some people might think the trade off is worth it.. but in no problem has been fixed.. (at least in my eyes)..
I understand the political motivation in taking the scarcity out of food. But at the same time, (and I may sound a little naive but I do believe and HOPE for this...) if we as a society demand non processed organic food supply I think capable enough society to make that happen.
ETA: we're seeing a population explosion because more people in poor countries are seeing their children survive into adulthood rather than dying from hunger or preventable diseases. Yeah, those populations are healthier than they were before. A lot healthier. The fact that people in rich countries eat too much and make themselves sick does not detract from that achievement.
Yes this is what I meant, thanks
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I think there is some mileage in all those theories, but the main one I think is that biologically we have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to seek out high calorie food because for most of human evolution food has been in short supply. It is only in the last 60 years or so that food has been so easy to come by and it takes more than 60 years to fight 300,000 years of evolution.
Added to that we are meant to have to work hard physically, most people don't any more, so we have had to substitute artificial exercise to try to counteract the inherent laziness of our modern lifestyles.
I don't think it's any great mystery, it's just something that everyone in the western world should be taught in school.
this.0 -
Ive said my piece and I think we have all gotten a little off topic... I'm done. haha0
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People in these countries generally starve when something goes wrong for them: droughts, floods, disease, war. Tackling that is a complicated issue. Populations increase because people have a lot of children, which also occurs for a variety of reasons: need for a large family to work the land, lack of access to contraception, cultural norms and the need to have a lot of kids in the hope that some will survive to take care of you in your old age. Again, it's a complicated issue. It's nothing like as simple as "they got too much food and the population exploded" which is what it sounds like you're saying.0
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People in these countries generally starve when something goes wrong for them: droughts, floods, disease, war. Tackling that is a complicated issue. Populations increase because people have a lot of children, which also occurs for a variety of reasons: need for a large family to work the land, lack of access to contraception, cultural norms and the need to have a lot of kids in the hope that some will survive to take care of you in your old age. Again, it's a complicated issue. It's nothing like as simple as "they got too much food and the population exploded" which is what it sounds like you're saying.
No, I agree with you. I am just saying that the ills of the poorest aren't fixed with processed grains alone. I think in the end we are both saying that the problems are more complicated then food being the save all.0 -
Laziness - I have plenty of friends with thyroid and other hormonal imbalance problems and 95% of them manage to stay in a healthy weight range. They may not be Victoria Secret look-a-likes, but they are fit and healthy. Its all how bad you want it.
Jillian Micheals has hypothyroidism. Look at how great she looks!0 -
Bringing cats and dogs into it is a bit sketchy because increasingly domesticated animals *are* overweight. I think they don't overeat as commonly as humans do because they are less likely to have emotional ties to food. Still, when the food is readily accessible all day in a dish, and when they don't get the exercise they do in the wild (I'd imaging animals in packs who can run and play whenever it suits them burn far more calories than pets taken on regularly scheduled walks at a moderate pace while leashed for the primary purpose of emptying their bladders) they do get fat. The modern Western lifestyle of convenient access to food and minimal necessary exertion would make any creature fat.
The other reasons dogs and cats might not get quite as fat as humans are that their food is still restricted in some way by their owners, and that they are carnivores. They don't have the range of sugary foods tempting them that we humans do. Saying that I have read that 60% of dogs and 40% of cats in the UK are overweight or obese, which is roughly the same levels as seen in humans, so perhaps those distinctions aren't valid.0 -
Why do humans get themselves unhealthly fat but wild animals do not?
My daughter says it best, "Biology is first and foremost. Our brains crave fat the same way fish crave water – humans didn’t survive the last ice age on balsamic vinegar and delicate greens. We need fat to grow, develop, and live – but unlike fish, creatures that could never be inundated by too much water, humans (particularly Americans) are drowning in fat and sugar; the very things that were precious commodities in our past are now the convenient fodder of the ubiquitous vending machine. Unfortunately, our brains are still trying to survive the last ice age.. .Our many food woes will not be overcome by willpower alone (if it even exists), but by learning to enjoy a healthier, more sustainable way of living."
Wild animals don't have to deal with the structures of modern society (supermarkets, sedentary livelihoods, and a greedy free market that is anything but free - fat and sugar addictions anyone?). However, domestic animals are often overfed and under-active. The same biology affects them, the difference: STRUCTURE.
Bingo.
-Debra0 -
Well if you ask my Anatomy teacher he would tell you the over consumption of High Frutos Corn Syrup. High Frutos corn syrup is a man made sweetener that your body doesn't recognize as a sugar so it can't break it down then stores it as fat. So if you want to lose the pounds cut down on the HFCS .:flowerforyou:0
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Awareness:
Many people simply aren't aware of how their food and activity choices are affecting their weight. Whether this is due to their upbringing, turning a blind eye, not having time to think about it, etc. they still lack the awareness to be able to make appropriate changes.
Money:
The unfortunate truth is that it is much more affordable to eat poorer quality food. So people may have the awareness to make changes to their diet, but not the money necessary to make it happen.
Convenience:
We live in a society of instant gratification. Poorer quality food is often much easier and faster to obtain/prepare. Why work out when they can take the latest diet pill and use that time for something more gratifying.
Situational:
It's not uncommon for people that are experiencing highly emotionally charged events to turn to food. It's about trying to fill a void to make us feel better. What is actually missing often varies, but the food doesn't do anything more than temporarily filling the void and often contributes to weight gain. As long as it's a temporary event and not something that becomes a life habit and/or chronic situation, these temporary gains can often be easily reversed.
I think that's it for now.0 -
Natural or unnatural, if there is plenty food around and they have a sedentary lifestyle, they'll get fat. You can see it with people who sometimes own a wild animal and also just with our pets in general. They are not immune to being overweight, its just their lifestyle on having to work for their food keeps them from going overweight. There isn't an ample food source for most wild animals to obtain with little effort, its a continuous struggle on finding/hunting for their food.
I used to agree with this completely... A few things lately (last 5 years or so) have made me question this belief.
1.) I have read articles describing animal (mostly mice) feeding trials where they were fed ad-libitum and did not have to struggle and hunt for food, where the mice did not get fat.
2.) The deer population is exploding in my area and they are having very little trouble finding food. They also are having to spend less and less time running from predators, yet they are not getting fat.
3.) I have observed a number of humans who have lived a sedentary lifestyle with ample food available and have not gotten fat.
4.) I personally have lost 35 lbs (7 since joining MFP). During this time I have actually DEcreased my energy expenditure and INcreased my energy intake.
5.) I have read some compelling analysis that argues that the first law of thermodynamics does not apply to human energy balance. Change in fat mass = Energy in - Energy Out assumes that energy in and energy out are the only variables. There are many other variables that can affect both E(in) and E(out) as well as them being able to affect each other...Its not just a simple math problem. Anyone who has ever struggled with sustained weight loss knows this.
These ( and other factors) have caused me to question the typical nutrition advice. I am not claiming to have any answers.
Mice on their own are able to get fat.
Deer have a very different physiology and anatomy then we do and you only mention that "you" have not seen them get fat, did this article state anything about them not getting fat and is it they are having enough food but it still may not be to a point where it will cause them to get overweight? They are probably still moving as well.
I'm sure it depends on the species on how easy they can get fat but thinking wild animals in general can't get fat is purely wrong. Eating natural won't keep you from getting fat if you are still overeating.0 -
Natural or unnatural, if there is plenty food around and they have a sedentary lifestyle, they'll get fat. You can see it with people who sometimes own a wild animal and also just with our pets in general. They are not immune to being overweight, its just their lifestyle on having to work for their food keeps them from going overweight. There isn't an ample food source for most wild animals to obtain with little effort, its a continuous struggle on finding/hunting for their food.
I used to agree with this completely... A few things lately (last 5 years or so) have made me question this belief.
1.) I have read articles describing animal (mostly mice) feeding trials where they were fed ad-libitum and did not have to struggle and hunt for food, where the mice did not get fat.
2.) The deer population is exploding in my area and they are having very little trouble finding food. They also are having to spend less and less time running from predators, yet they are not getting fat.
3.) I have observed a number of humans who have lived a sedentary lifestyle with ample food available and have not gotten fat.
4.) I personally have lost 35 lbs (7 since joining MFP). During this time I have actually DEcreased my energy expenditure and INcreased my energy intake.
5.) I have read some compelling analysis that argues that the first law of thermodynamics does not apply to human energy balance. Change in fat mass = Energy in - Energy Out assumes that energy in and energy out are the only variables. There are many other variables that can affect both E(in) and E(out) as well as them being able to affect each other...Its not just a simple math problem. Anyone who has ever struggled with sustained weight loss knows this.
These ( and other factors) have caused me to question the typical nutrition advice. I am not claiming to have any answers.
Mice on their own are able to get fat.
Deer have a very different physiology and anatomy then we do and you only mention that "you" have not seen them get fat, did this article state anything about them not getting fat and is it they are having enough food but it still may not be to a point where it will cause them to get overweight? They are probably still moving as well.
I'm sure it depends on the species on how easy they can get fat but thinking wild animals in general can't get fat is purely wrong. Eating natural won't keep you from getting fat if you are still overeating.
Deer live outside. Unlike humans they don't shelter for warmth, even when the temperatures are below freezing. Instead, their metabolisms go through the roof and they heat themselves by burning a phenomenal amount of calories. Farmed deer are fatter than wild ones as they don't run as much, but no outdoor animal will get fat because they expend so much energy just keeping warm. We humans don't have that biology (not being designed to live in cold climates - we are essentially a tropical species).0 -
Well if you ask my Anatomy teacher he would tell you the over consumption of High Frutos Corn Syrup. High Frutos corn syrup is a man made sweetener that your body doesn't recognize as a sugar so it can't break it down then stores it as fat. So if you want to lose the pounds cut down on the HFCS .:flowerforyou:
Cut down on sugar, period.0 -
Some of these are interesting theories, and I'm almost certain the hormonal one has been a huge part of my problem (hypothyroid).
It is nice to see a discussion that goes beyond the calories in versus calories out. I believe that our metabolisms, our brains, our desires, environments, etc are all factors in the equation. Obviously calories in and calories out are a huge part of that equation, but to pretend that we will all lose weight exactly one pound if we exert or deprive ourselves of 3500 calories is just plain wrong. I am not entirely sure that the way calories are measured are the same way that we burn them.
I don't think any of this is an exact science. We each have to get to know ourselves and what our deeper issues are so that we can spend more calories and eat less of them.0 -
Obesity can also be a starvation problem also. The food that you eat may be highly NON nutritious. Therefore your body is telling you to eat more to get what it needs.0
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Natural or unnatural, if there is plenty food around and they have a sedentary lifestyle, they'll get fat. You can see it with people who sometimes own a wild animal and also just with our pets in general. They are not immune to being overweight, its just their lifestyle on having to work for their food keeps them from going overweight. There isn't an ample food source for most wild animals to obtain with little effort, its a continuous struggle on finding/hunting for their food.
I used to agree with this completely... A few things lately (last 5 years or so) have made me question this belief.
1.) I have read articles describing animal (mostly mice) feeding trials where they were fed ad-libitum and did not have to struggle and hunt for food, where the mice did not get fat.
2.) The deer population is exploding in my area and they are having very little trouble finding food. They also are having to spend less and less time running from predators, yet they are not getting fat.
3.) I have observed a number of humans who have lived a sedentary lifestyle with ample food available and have not gotten fat.
4.) I personally have lost 35 lbs (7 since joining MFP). During this time I have actually DEcreased my energy expenditure and INcreased my energy intake.
5.) I have read some compelling analysis that argues that the first law of thermodynamics does not apply to human energy balance. Change in fat mass = Energy in - Energy Out assumes that energy in and energy out are the only variables. There are many other variables that can affect both E(in) and E(out) as well as them being able to affect each other...Its not just a simple math problem. Anyone who has ever struggled with sustained weight loss knows this.
These ( and other factors) have caused me to question the typical nutrition advice. I am not claiming to have any answers.
Mice on their own are able to get fat.
Deer have a very different physiology and anatomy then we do and you only mention that "you" have not seen them get fat, did this article state anything about them not getting fat and is it they are having enough food but it still may not be to a point where it will cause them to get overweight? They are probably still moving as well.
I'm sure it depends on the species on how easy they can get fat but thinking wild animals in general can't get fat is purely wrong. Eating natural won't keep you from getting fat if you are still overeating.
Deer live outside. Unlike humans they don't shelter for warmth, even when the temperatures are below freezing. Instead, their metabolisms go through the roof and they heat themselves by burning a phenomenal amount of calories. Farmed deer are fatter than wild ones as they don't run as much, but no outdoor animal will get fat because they expend so much energy just keeping warm. We humans don't have that biology (not being designed to live in cold climates - we are essentially a tropical species).
Deer have fur not high metabolisms. Farmed deer are fed by us... improperly.
I think everyone is missing my point... I am QUESTIONING not rejecting the commonly held belief that sedentary lifestyles and ample food will automatically make you or any other animal fat. This is because I have observed some things that contradict this paradigm.
I question greatly that animals are lean only because of energy expenditure and food scarcity. I theorize that there is a biological hunger/satiety mechanism that works most effectively when a high quality, natural, species appropriate, traditional diet is consumed and that this mechanism will work even in an environment packed with ample food.
I'm not sure that I am right, I honestly believe that nobody truly knows why we overeat.0 -
Mice on their own are able to get fat.
Deer have a very different physiology and anatomy then we do and you only mention that "you" have not seen them get fat, did this article state anything about them not getting fat and is it they are having enough food but it still may not be to a point where it will cause them to get overweight? They are probably still moving as well.
I'm sure it depends on the species on how easy they can get fat but thinking wild animals in general can't get fat is purely wrong. Eating natural won't keep you from getting fat if you are still overeating.
I don't believe and I don't think that I have said that wild animals CAN'T get fat. I have only sat and wondered why they DON'T get fat. The more I think/read about it, the more I question most commonly held beliefs about obesity.0 -
Obesity can also be a starvation problem also. The food that you eat may be highly NON nutritious. Therefore your body is telling you to eat more to get what it needs.
Very true....0 -
processed food does not satisfy a belly the way actual food does. most of what americans and the western world eat is processed - BREAD IS A PROCESSED FOOD - even if you made it yourself, that flour has been processed. sugar is processed. most western base ingredients are processed. this goes beyond the artificial additives, hfcs blah blah.
sodium makes you thirsty and a lot of times hunger is actually misperceived thirst. we eat a TON OF SODIUM.
people feel like they need to eat more because they are not full from processed food.
people who are not actively busy or conversely, people who are too busy and then stressed out, eat out of a way to satisfy their dissatisfaction. our commercial culture that food is a 'treat' and 'treating ourselves' will help you be happier.
it's all our own individual faults technically but a lot of it is how we run our society.0 -
processed food does not satisfy a belly the way actual food does. most of what americans and the western world eat is processed - BREAD IS A PROCESSED FOOD - even if you made it yourself, that flour has been processed. sugar is processed. most western base ingredients are processed. this goes beyond the artificial additives, hfcs blah blah.
sodium makes you thirsty and a lot of times hunger is actually misperceived thirst. we eat a TON OF SODIUM.
people feel like they need to eat more because they are not full from processed food.
people who are not actively busy or conversely, people who are too busy and then stressed out, eat out of a way to satisfy their dissatisfaction. our commercial culture that food is a 'treat' and 'treating ourselves' will help you be happier.
it's all our own individual faults technically but a lot of it is how we run our society.
This is pretty much my point. But I think that the processed food doesn't satisfy because it is nutritionally defecient. That may be the same thing that you were saying. IDK.0
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