Major Flaw in MFP and eating back your calories?

erickirb

I asked a trainer about this and he sent me a 2 page + article explaining everything, and the best way to break down what he say/found is that if you eat back ALL of your workout calories..you will MAINTAIN your current weigh, if you eat back SOME of your workout calories (which is what i do), you will loose. And if you want to gain to eat back your workout plus some (for those trying to bulk up). I usually try to eat back some of my calories, not all and weight usually just falls off. When i 1st got on this site i did that and the weight just came strait off...i gained some of my weight back due to a few months of anxiety episodes, but im back on and the weight is coming off again.

you will only maintain by eating your exercise calories if you eat maintenance calories. If you are set up to lose 1 lb/week, you must eat the cals back that you burned in order to lose that 1 lb. If you don't eat them back you may lose more weight as you should, but some or a lot of that might be from lean muscle, not fat.

This article is set up so your TDEE (maintenance) includes exercise. MFP does not include exercise in your maintenance calories or calorie goal until you enter it in the cardio tab.

3dogsrunning

someone said it better.

armaretta

Let me break down the math for everyone. I realize this isn't 100% for everyone, but being talked to like I'm a primitive monkey rubs me the wrong way.

As I am a moderately active male between the ages of 20-39, my BMR was calculated at 2800 calories per day. By remaining at my activity level of moderately active, I can in theory consume 2800 calories per day and maintain my current weight. MFP agrees with my trainer. Yay.

Setting my goal loss of 1 lb per week, MFP sets my goal calories of the day to 2230. The diet my trainer put me on is 2000. 230 is not a major number off hand but I'm going to stick with 2000.

When I do a full hour of eliptical or running, I burn over 1000 calories. From experience, if I eat those back (meaning I eat a total of 3230 calories a day), I will gain weight. If I eat half of those calories (meaning I eat a total of 2730 calories) I will maintain my weight. If I eat a few or none of those calories (meaning I stay around 2000 calories) I lose the weight.

I weigh my food. I log it all. To lose weight my body requires that I NOT eat back the calories I burn from exercising. I do 100% realize that the caloric value MFP gives me is ALREADY a deficit.

I realize 100% that there are people who can consume their exercise calories and lose weight. Great for them! I also know people who spend one or two days out of the week in the gym for an hour each time, do nothing else all week, and look ripped and have a low body fat %. Not every body is built the same way.

So again to me there is a flaw with eating back your calories because to me it makes me gain my weight back. I need to remain at a total of 2000 or so calories consumed total per day to achieve weight loss. I will be upping my calories in May when I finish the current body fat program I'm on now as I will be down to 20-22% body fat then, but for now, I will stay doing what I'm doing because it 100% works for my body.

Your mileage... may vary.

Also, What the heck kind of metabolic problems are you having if you are a 200lbs+ male, and you only burn 2800 calories TOTAL per day after burning 1000 on an elliptical?

I'm a 125 lbs 5'2" girl, and I burn nearly that much from regular daily activity and jogging 60minutes. I eat more than 2000 calories/day fairly often and I lose weight still.

3dogsrunning

A few things.

First, regardless of what everyone else says, good for you for finding out what works for you. It can be harder than it seems like it should be.

Second, your BMR is not 2800. Your TDEE might be, but not your BMR. Many people on this site use the terms interchangably, but they are very different and could cause confusion.

Last, I think the problem a lot of people have with your advice is that your are recommending a method (that when done properly works) that contradicts how MPF is setup. Most people don't setup MFP to include exercise in their TDEE, which is why most people need to eat back most/all of their cals.

Without being very clear about the fact you are suggesting a method that is not the norm for MFP users wihtout explaining the differences and the strategies can cause problems.

YES!!!! Exactly.

dbratton87

For one that extra 100 calories is already calculated into your daily calories burned and secondly I think most of us are creating a much larger deficit than that so even 100 calories over my goal would still leave me with a huge deficit.

CyberEd312

It's a major flaw IMO because you end up over eating and not losing weight and in some cases gaining weight.

The fitness trainers and nutritionists that I have seen have given me a flat 2000-2200 calorie diet. They never mention eating back my calories.

When I do eat back my calories, I fail. When I do not, I lose weight. I will stick with the results.

I agree completely. My mother has a friend who is a doctor with a PhD in weight management/obesity and she told me that eating back those calories basically defeats the purpose of burning those calories through exercise.

\

Well thank god I am not going to that Doctor... lol From the beginning I have always said, it is best to keep this as simple as possible and not over think things. The only time I can see where Net calories can really effect an outcome is during Long low intensity cardio (hiking, walking 4-5 hours, etc) but in most causes people who do exercise are doing High intensity/ interval training for 30-60 minutes getting the most out of each one of their workouts. I wear a HRM to get a better estimate of total calories burned. I start it when a begin and stop as soon as I am done. Log my total exercise calories burned and eat back around 90% of my exercise calories and have lost 293 lbs. in 31 months...... There is enough to worry about avoiding temptations, getting your water intake in for the day, life's daily stresses, etc,etc.... Worrying about 100 calories+/- at best for a day to me is just over thinking it but like I always say do what works best for you and I will do the same..........

k1mcat

Worry less, exercise more, eat better.

yep!!! best post I have seen in a LONG TIME

I concur.

kmp411

Let me break down the math for everyone. I realize this isn't 100% for everyone, but being talked to like I'm a primitive monkey rubs me the wrong way.

As I am a moderately active male between the ages of 20-39, my BMR was calculated at 2800 calories per day. By remaining at my activity level of moderately active, I can in theory consume 2800 calories per day and maintain my current weight. MFP agrees with my trainer. Yay.

Setting my goal loss of 1 lb per week, MFP sets my goal calories of the day to 2230. The diet my trainer put me on is 2000. 230 is not a major number off hand but I'm going to stick with 2000.

When I do a full hour of eliptical or running, I burn over 1000 calories. From experience, if I eat those back (meaning I eat a total of 3230 calories a day), I will gain weight. If I eat half of those calories (meaning I eat a total of 2730 calories) I will maintain my weight. If I eat a few or none of those calories (meaning I stay around 2000 calories) I lose the weight.

I weigh my food. I log it all. To lose weight my body requires that I NOT eat back the calories I burn from exercising. I do 100% realize that the caloric value MFP gives me is ALREADY a deficit.

I realize 100% that there are people who can consume their exercise calories and lose weight. Great for them! I also know people who spend one or two days out of the week in the gym for an hour each time, do nothing else all week, and look ripped and have a low body fat %. Not every body is built the same way.

So again to me there is a flaw with eating back your calories because to me it makes me gain my weight back. I need to remain at a total of 2000 or so calories consumed total per day to achieve weight loss. I will be upping my calories in May when I finish the current body fat program I'm on now as I will be down to 20-22% body fat then, but for now, I will stay doing what I'm doing because it 100% works for my body.

Your mileage... may vary.

Last, I think the problem a lot of people have with your advice is that your are recommending a method (that when done properly works) that contradicts how MPF is setup. Most people don't setup MFP to include exercise in their TDEE, which is why most people need to eat back most/all of their cals.

^^^ This .. If people were to grasp THIS there would be a lot less threads on the eat back/dont eat back excercise calories. MFP DOES NOT FACTOR your excercise calories, hence would be the reason it's suggested that you eat them back. I have my caloric intake already set to where my exercise calories are already factored in, therefore I DO NOT eat back what I burn. I keep track of the the cals that I burn when I workout, I just add them as workout notes everyday.

It really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.

mrmanmeat

One thing I have been wondering is why MFP does not incorporate NET workout calories. Since you burn calories constantly, you need to subtract your baseline calories for that amount of time you worked out right?

Lets say someone's basal metabolic rate is 2400 calories a day. That's and average of 100 calories an hour. They work out 1 hour and burn 600 calories. MFP would tell that person that they could eat 3000 calories that day. BUT what MFP does not factor in is that, for that 1 hour they worked out, they would have burned 100 calories that hour without working out. Therefore, their net work out calories burned is 500. So, they could eat 2900 calories, and 3000 calories would actually lead to a weight gain right?

I try not to eat my workout calories, but I'm just wondering since a lot of people do. Any ideas?

I do, usually w/ in 100-200.

smbakke77

Oops sorry 49lbs lol )

well you are just amazing aren't you Maz?? LOL

bigdawg025

I have seen way too many of these threads... Good Lord! It's pretty simple... some people do it... some people don't, and whatever works for one may or may not work for another.

Even if you're on Weight Watchers... and you exercise... you are supposed to eat MORE!!! It makes sense that if you work out like a beast and burn 1,000 calories, your body needs fuel to replenish what you burned (and your metabolism will thank you later.)

redraidergirl2009

I don't pay any attention to it. I have done work outs where I have burned 850 calories. I might eat 200-400 of it back normally but I find it counter productive to eat all of them back.

jacksonpt

I have seen way too many of these threads... Good Lord! It's pretty simple... some people do it... some people don't, and whatever works for one may or may not work for another.

Even if you're on Weight Watchers... and you exercise... you are supposed to eat MORE!!! It makes sense that if you work out like a beast and burn 1,000 calories, your body needs fuel to replenish what you burned (and your metabolism will thank you later.)

But isn't there some degree of importance in understanding WHY it works or doesn't work for you? Especially when you are running around making recommendations about whether or not to eat them back? Simply knowing that something does or doesn't work for you isn't enough if you are going to give advice to others... you have to understand the concept and WHY it works or doesn't work.

3dogsrunning

I have seen way too many of these threads... Good Lord! It's pretty simple... some people do it... some people don't, and whatever works for one may or may not work for another.

Even if you're on Weight Watchers... and you exercise... you are supposed to eat MORE!!! It makes sense that if you work out like a beast and burn 1,000 calories, your body needs fuel to replenish what you burned (and your metabolism will thank you later.)

But isn't there some degree of importance in understanding WHY it works or doesn't work for you? Especially when you are running around making recommendations about whether or not to eat them back? Simply knowing that something does or doesn't work for you isn't enough if you are going to give advice to others... you have to understand the concept and WHY it works or doesn't work.

You are killing me with your logic.

auticus

Also, What the heck kind of metabolic problems are you having if you are a 200lbs+ male, and you only burn 2800 calories TOTAL per day after burning 1000 on an elliptical?

I'm a 125 lbs 5'2" girl, and I burn nearly that much from regular daily activity and jogging 60minutes. I eat more than 2000 calories/day fairly often and I lose weight still.

The same metabolic issues that allowed my ex wife to eat 3x what I did and stay 105 lbs whereas I ballooneed to 272 lbs. I have a slow metabolism.

Congratulations to you for being genetically superior. For me to lose weight I have to follow a very strict diet and watch my carb/protein compositions.

Jeff92se

Also, What the heck kind of metabolic problems are you having if you are a 200lbs+ male, and you only burn 2800 calories TOTAL per day after burning 1000 on an elliptical?

I'm a 125 lbs 5'2" girl, and I burn nearly that much from regular daily activity and jogging 60minutes. I eat more than 2000 calories/day fairly often and I lose weight still.

The same metabolic issues that allowed my ex wife to eat 3x what I did and stay 105 lbs whereas I ballooneed to 272 lbs. I have a slow metabolism.

Congratulations to you for being genetically superior. For me to lose weight I have to follow a very strict diet and watch my carb/protein compositions.

Then wouldn't that be a flaw in the calculation of the amount of calories you burn w/o exercise?

auticus

^^^ This .. If people were to grasp THIS there would be a lot less threads on the eat back/dont eat back excercise calories. MFP DOES NOT FACTOR your excercise calories, hence would be the reason it's suggested that you eat them back. I have my caloric intake already set to where my exercise calories are already factored in, therefore I DO NOT eat back what I burn. I keep track of the the cals that I burn when I workout, I just add them as workout notes everyday.

It really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.

We are obviously having a huge disconnect in communication. I do not set up my MFP with my exercise calories already included. Let me make that clear. I will say it again. I do not set up my MFP with my exercise calories already included.

I have a very slow metabolism. I always have. I am with a trainer now BECAUSE the MFP way doesn't work well for me. I use MFP to log my food now and network.

Thank you above for the clarification on terms. I parrot what my trainer tells me. So when he says BMR, I say BMR. When I say BMR I am referring to the calories I burn if I don't exercise all day. Meaning if I lay on the couch all day I'd burn 2800 calories supposedly and maintain my weight.

I've spent the better part of 10 months guaging, evaluating, and finding my "magic formula". It's 2000 calories a day. Period. With exercise. I don't calculate a net. I do not take in more than 2000 calories a day regardless of how much I work out, or if I don't work out that day. Using this I can lose 0.5 - 1 lb a week. No I don't eat all big macs and twinkies all day. I have no junk food at all in my diet currently. I work out 5 days a week. My cardio involves 60 minutes of eliptical OR I run 6-8 miles which takes a little longer than 60 minutes.

I do realize there are people who can look at a gym and suddenly lose weight. I am not one of those people. My body enjoys being fat and obese. To get to not be fat and obese, I have to be more restrictive and work a little harder to get the same results as "normal" people.

auticus

Also, What the heck kind of metabolic problems are you having if you are a 200lbs+ male, and you only burn 2800 calories TOTAL per day after burning 1000 on an elliptical?

I'm a 125 lbs 5'2" girl, and I burn nearly that much from regular daily activity and jogging 60minutes. I eat more than 2000 calories/day fairly often and I lose weight still.

The same metabolic issues that allowed my ex wife to eat 3x what I did and stay 105 lbs whereas I ballooneed to 272 lbs. I have a slow metabolism.

Congratulations to you for being genetically superior. For me to lose weight I have to follow a very strict diet and watch my carb/protein compositions.

Then wouldn't that be a flaw in the calculation of the amount of calories you burn w/o exercise?

Since you've brought this up twice now...

A typical man my weight and activity level burns 2800 calories a day. Based on my own findings out, I burn 2300 calories a day or so. It took me a few months of study and measuring values to come up with that.

Regardless, if I eat 2000 calories a day and workout 5x a week for 60-90 minutes, which includes cardio on all days, I lose weight.

We can nit pick it to death if you wish. I'm sure there is a mathematically correct value I can plug in that would let me eat back my calories, but based off of the pure MFP numbers, it is a failure for me so I stick with flat 2000 calories because it works for me.

Jeff92se

Also, What the heck kind of metabolic problems are you having if you are a 200lbs+ male, and you only burn 2800 calories TOTAL per day after burning 1000 on an elliptical?

I'm a 125 lbs 5'2" girl, and I burn nearly that much from regular daily activity and jogging 60minutes. I eat more than 2000 calories/day fairly often and I lose weight still.

The same metabolic issues that allowed my ex wife to eat 3x what I did and stay 105 lbs whereas I ballooneed to 272 lbs. I have a slow metabolism.

Congratulations to you for being genetically superior. For me to lose weight I have to follow a very strict diet and watch my carb/protein compositions.

Then wouldn't that be a flaw in the calculation of the amount of calories you burn w/o exercise?

Since you've brought this up twice now...

A typical man my weight and activity level burns 2800 calories a day. Based on my own findings out, I burn 2300 calories a day or so. It took me a few months of study and measuring values to come up with that.

Regardless, if I eat 2000 calories a day and workout 5x a week for 60-90 minutes, which includes cardio on all days, I lose weight.

We can nit pick it to death if you wish. I'm sure there is a mathematically correct value I can plug in that would let me eat back my calories, but based off of the pure MFP numbers, it is a failure for me so I stick with flat 2000 calories because it works for me.

I don't doubt that if you only eat 2000 calories a day and then workout that much (est 1,000 calories) that you would lose weight. It's only about a 1,000 calorie net.

How great of a plan that is, I don't know.

Z_I_L_L_A

A calorie diff of 100 out of 600 is a 16.6% error (on top of whatever existing error there is)

Machine at the gym = indiscriminate calorie burn

MFP at least adjusts the calories burnt at your height/weight/age (and intensity if there is a variation available).

She's not talking about the error of machines vs MFP vs HRM

Yeah but there is more of a error there than the 100 cals. the original poster was asking about. This site is good for guestimating, it is a good tool. But by no means is it perfect. What type of shape are you, how strong your cardiovascular is, do you weigh your food, your metabolism, all these things are different for everybody. Do what you can learn your body, eat right, exercise. JMHO

Why add to the error? Might as well try to keep the error down as much as possible if it can be fixed.

True, tough enough as it is.

auticus

How great of a plan that is, I don't know.

It's resulted in 25 lbs out of 39 total loss, and about a 10% body fat reduction since July with a moderate body strength increase.

jacksonpt

^^^ This .. If people were to grasp THIS there would be a lot less threads on the eat back/dont eat back excercise calories. MFP DOES NOT FACTOR your excercise calories, hence would be the reason it's suggested that you eat them back. I have my caloric intake already set to where my exercise calories are already factored in, therefore I DO NOT eat back what I burn. I keep track of the the cals that I burn when I workout, I just add them as workout notes everyday.

It really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.

We are obviously having a huge disconnect in communication. I do not set up my MFP with my exercise calories already included. Let me make that clear. I will say it again. I do not set up my MFP with my exercise calories already included.

I have a very slow metabolism. I always have. I am with a trainer now BECAUSE the MFP way doesn't work well for me. I use MFP to log my food now and network.

Thank you above for the clarification on terms. I parrot what my trainer tells me. So when he says BMR, I say BMR. When I say BMR I am referring to the calories I burn if I don't exercise all day. Meaning if I lay on the couch all day I'd burn 2800 calories supposedly and maintain my weight.

I've spent the better part of 10 months guaging, evaluating, and finding my "magic formula". It's 2000 calories a day. Period. With exercise. I don't calculate a net. I do not take in more than 2000 calories a day regardless of how much I work out, or if I don't work out that day. Using this I can lose 0.5 - 1 lb a week. No I don't eat all big macs and twinkies all day. I have no junk food at all in my diet currently. I work out 5 days a week. My cardio involves 60 minutes of eliptical OR I run 6-8 miles which takes a little longer than 60 minutes.

I do realize there are people who can look at a gym and suddenly lose weight. I am not one of those people. My body enjoys being fat and obese. To get to not be fat and obese, I have to be more restrictive and work a little harder to get the same results as "normal" people.

there is something very amiss here... no way does a slow metabolism burn 2800 calories just sitting on the couch all day.

not to mention the red flags thrown up by a trainer who doesn't use the term BMR correctly.

Jeff92se

How great of a plan that is, I don't know.

It's resulted in 25 lbs out of 39 total loss, and about a 10% body fat reduction since July with a moderate body strength increase.

Newbie to lifting? I would have thought a 1k net calorie consumption would do more than that.

mizlaur123

Yea I actually subtract bmr cals myself before putting them in my exercise diary.

zeeeb

i honestly don't think eating 100 calories less than you need is going to affect your weightloss. the body is not a computer.

i think if you are eating 1100 net instead of 1200 net it could be an issue, but if you are eating around the 2000 calorie mark, that is definitely enough nutrition to keep your body working well. and the quality if the food (nutritious healthy fresh food vs processed cr@p) would be more important than 100 calories.

auticus

How great of a plan that is, I don't know.

It's resulted in 25 lbs out of 39 total loss, and about a 10% body fat reduction since July with a moderate body strength increase.

Newbie to lifting? I would have thought a 1k net calorie consumption would do more than that.

I've been a wrestler and a weight lifter since I was 16, so no I'm not a newbie to lifting. I'm on a fat loss program, not a muscle building program.

Which is my entire point. People think that the formulas are one size fit all. They are by far NOT.

Chika_2015

This is an ongoing topic... me personally, i just eat when i'm hungry...it's all about moderation. And my way works for me. LOL

basschick

I just subtract a calorie/min that I exercised from what my heart rate monitor says... it works for me... probably not a huge deal either way

Yes, I do this too...and then I eat back all but about 10-50 exercise calories. It's worked well for me. Before I started maintenance, I averaged a pound a week loss for 46 weeks.

kmp411

^^^ This .. If people were to grasp THIS there would be a lot less threads on the eat back/dont eat back excercise calories. MFP DOES NOT FACTOR your excercise calories, hence would be the reason it's suggested that you eat them back. I have my caloric intake already set to where my exercise calories are already factored in, therefore I DO NOT eat back what I burn. I keep track of the the cals that I burn when I workout, I just add them as workout notes everyday.

It really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.

We are obviously having a huge disconnect in communication. I do not set up my MFP with my exercise calories already included. Let me make that clear. I will say it again. I do not set up my MFP with my exercise calories already included.

I have a very slow metabolism. I always have. I am with a trainer now BECAUSE the MFP way doesn't work well for me. I use MFP to log my food now and network.

Thank you above for the clarification on terms. I parrot what my trainer tells me. So when he says BMR, I say BMR. When I say BMR I am referring to the calories I burn if I don't exercise all day. Meaning if I lay on the couch all day I'd burn 2800 calories supposedly and maintain my weight.

I've spent the better part of 10 months guaging, evaluating, and finding my "magic formula". It's 2000 calories a day. Period. With exercise. I don't calculate a net. I do not take in more than 2000 calories a day regardless of how much I work out, or if I don't work out that day. Using this I can lose 0.5 - 1 lb a week. No I don't eat all big macs and twinkies all day. I have no junk food at all in my diet currently. I work out 5 days a week. My cardio involves 60 minutes of eliptical OR I run 6-8 miles which takes a little longer than 60 minutes.

I do realize there are people who can look at a gym and suddenly lose weight. I am not one of those people. My body enjoys being fat and obese. To get to not be fat and obese, I have to be more restrictive and work a little harder to get the same results as "normal" people.

there is something very amiss here... no way does a slow metabolism burn 2800 calories just sitting on the couch all day.

not to mention the red flags thrown up by a trainer who doesn't use the term BMR correctly.

I agree....

If I had a dime for every eat back/don't eat back thread that is created on a dialy basis, I would have retired 2 years ago:bigsmile:

Apazman

a MAJOR flaw...I doubt that even 1% of individuals are that accurate in their calorie estimates. Calorie burns are all estimates anyway so 100 calories +/- is not something to be considered "major" anyway. You can fidget those calories off. LOL. I think you have much larger concerns than the 100 calories you may be double counting--like eating nutritious foods, actually getting in the exercise, and being consistent.

Besides, MFP calculates a deficit larger than 100 calories for even 1/2 pound loss per week (250 calorie deficit) so worst case scenario is your deficit is now 150 calories per day and it takes you 23 days instead of 14 days to lose 1 pound.

Totally agree! 98% of people underestimate thier calories anyhoo!