The Everything In Moderation Myth

kennethmgreen

As with everything, it really comes down to perspective/context.

I'd bet that I can take almost any study/theory/rule of thumb, manipulate it somehow and prove it wrong. Why? Because the theory/rule is valid under a certain set of assumptions. Those assumptions are the determining factor.

Agreed. Though I might add "word choice" and/or "clarity" to what it really comes down to. That is to say context isn't always enough if those discussing don't share a lexicon.

In that article (as on MFP), the discussion shifts around from "healthy eating" to "weight loss" which are two completely different things. The people that state calories in/calories out aren't claiming that has anything to do with "healthy eating" - but a scientific principle based on units of energy/heat. And people that argue against this want to use their own stories as counterpoints, but almost never allow for similar calorie intake. In other words, if I say I tried counting calories and only lost weight when I removed brown gravy from my diet, that doesn't prove that cutting out brown gravy was the secret to my weight loss. In almost every case, it means that IN ADDITION to cutting out brown gravy, I also cut down calories (or changed the calories in/calories out equation in some way).

Is it possible - even likely - that my body was reacting to brown gravy in such a way that it affected how I consumed calories. Personally, I think this is why carbs get labeled "evil" - lots of people change their eating patterns when they cut out carbs and assume the no/low carbs was the answer. But it was the eating patterns. It is highly unlikely that I consumed the EXACT SAME CALORIES but substituted bananas for brown gravy (keeping calories the same) and started to lose weight.

How many articles that talk about weight loss (not health) and eliminating one particular food make a point of saying they controlled for calorie intake? I've seen lots of articles and none of the ones I've seen make this point. They list all this anecdotal evidence and correlation statistics. I believe a correlation exists if a person does behavior A and result N happens. But that does not mean A caused N. (Google correlation vs. causation). Eliminating one thing may have helped some people lose weight, but it wasn't the only change that happened if there were not losing weight before.

Silverkittycat

Oh yeah, and:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

...and http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

Feeling good, and happiness is as much a part of health as anything else. Little Debbie Cosmic Brownies make me happy, and of course they taste good. Therefore I will eat them. Only, I eat one and not everyday. I can easily fit these into my calorie/macronutritional goals. I see no problem with this.

Cosmic Brownies? I like the name of this food.

Sl1ghtly

Oh yeah, and:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

...and http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

Feeling good, and happiness is as much a part of health as anything else. Little Debbie Cosmic Brownies make me happy, and of course they taste good. Therefore I will eat them. Only, I eat one and not everyday. I can easily fit these into my calorie/macronutritional goals. I see no problem with this.

Cosmic Brownies? I like the name of this food.

They're heavenly.

abby12490

I don't understand why people can't just learn to enjoy healthy foods? After eating clean for a few weeks, my body completely rejects any kind of burger or fries. Whenever I crave a treat, I crave something like a smoothie or homemade granola bars.

Anyway, I guess I could agree with this article. I've lost weight from just restricting calories but eating junk. When I restrict calories AND eat healthy though, I feel much better about myself, which makes me choose healthy rather than junk. I guess it's just personal experience/opinion.

CoderGal

I came across this article today and was floored, because it basically established what I had already kind of thought. (Ya, I know, I'm so smart.)

I've had a lot of discussions about this as of late and I guess I just thought and accepted that I was kind of obsessed and too much into the fitness world as opposed to "real" living.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/12/everything-in-moderation_n_953804.html

Please read and discuss. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Oh, and if you have articles to prove the opposite, that anything in moderation is A-okay, then please post those as well.

I'd love to eat a donut.

"Though David admits there are useful aspects to the theory, he believes that it oversimplifies the understanding of weight" That pretty much sums up my thoughts on it.

There's a reason why there's 'magic pills' that make you drop weight that do work on people (my sister has repeatedly done it while eating all the unhealthyness she eats now). She eats lots of calories (probably about 3000 a day). I really think they only work on those who have specific diets, because I've heard they've worked out horribly on some people...Pretty sure it's based on different types of fibers and if you're eating foods that help you use and get rid of them plus lots of water? So I also liked their statement "(wrongly) assuming that all calories are created equal. ".

"he results showed that, when it comes to losing weight, it’s actually more about quality than quantity when it comes to what you put in your mouth." - Exactly! I made a thread the other day about 'healthy snacks' and everyone started filling it with things like jello, whipped cream, etc with responses like but they're 'low calories'. 'low calories' != 'healthy snacks'

“For example, if you consume too much sugar it changes your protein structure for the entire life of that protein, which is 180 days -- so that means that the protein stops doing its job for 180 days." That's something I didn't know, neat!

Great article, thanks for sharing!

yesthistime

Oh yeah, and:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

...and http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

Feeling good, and happiness is as much a part of health as anything else. Little Debbie Cosmic Brownies make me happy, and of course they taste good. Therefore I will eat them. Only, I eat one and not everyday. I can easily fit these into my calorie/macronutritional goals. I see no problem with this.

Cosmic Brownies? I like the name of this food.

They're heavenly.

Are these the ones with the multi-colored sprinkles? I need one of these before I start my clean-eating diet. Between this article and that show "My 600 LB. Life," I need to change my processed food-eating ways STAT!

Silverkittycat

Oh yeah, and:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

...and http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

Feeling good, and happiness is as much a part of health as anything else. Little Debbie Cosmic Brownies make me happy, and of course they taste good. Therefore I will eat them. Only, I eat one and not everyday. I can easily fit these into my calorie/macronutritional goals. I see no problem with this.

Cosmic Brownies? I like the name of this food.

They're heavenly.

May I have one, please?

hsnider29

This place needs a If It Fits Your Macros crew

It also needs to cite the definition of a macromolecule because the other day someone was saying that they were within their sodium macro!

missikay1970

this is great. my husband and i were just discussing nuts/pecans last night b/c they have such a high calorie count, and he was concerned. i said it was far better to eat them at 160 cal than a piece of pie for 100 cal.

Silverkittycat

this is great. my husband and i were just discussing nuts/pecans last night b/c they have such a high calorie count, and he was concerned. i said it was far better to eat them at 160 cal than a piece of pie for 100 cal.

:noway:

Silverkittycat

this is great. my husband and i were just discussing nuts/pecans last night b/c they have such a high calorie count, and he was concerned. i said it was far better to eat them at 160 cal than a piece of pie for 100 cal.

:noway:

Just teasing. You eat what you want.

Sl1ghtly

I don't understand why people can't just learn to enjoy healthy foods? After eating clean for a few weeks, my body completely rejects any kind of burger or fries. Whenever I crave a treat, I crave something like a smoothie or homemade granola bars.

Anyway, I guess I could agree with this article. I've lost weight from just restricting calories but eating junk. When I restrict calories AND eat healthy though, I feel much better about myself, which makes me choose healthy rather than junk. I guess it's just personal experience/opinion.

Quite simply- I don't want too. Also, a diet consisting of chicken nuggets and diet Dr. Pepper will never triumph over a diet of 'clean foods' which seems to be in line with the comparisons made. Apples to oranges.


That said,
The clean vrs naughty food debate, in my opinion, seems to be based more on personal ideology than science. As much as I may disagree with ones beliefs, I cannot possibly declare them right or wrong. Only different. This debate should be about application and dosage (weird phrasing, I know) of foods instead of healthy vrs unhealthy foods.

AlbertPooHoles

I love tartar sauce.

infamousmk

I love tartar sauce.

Do you overindulge?

AlbertPooHoles

I love tartar sauce.

Do you overindulge?

Sometimes. Then, I cry. Then, I eat more tartar sauce. Then...

Sl1ghtly

I love tartar sauce.

Do you overindulge?

Sometimes. Then, I cry. Then, I eat more tartar sauce. Then...

Tartar sauce made me cry one time. I thought it was ranch dressing.. boy was I surprised.

JennyAnn35

I think the point of everything in moderation is to not deprive yourself. It makes you less likely to overindulge if you do indulge every so often.

cloud2011

This part from the article is interesting. I'm assuming they're talking about epigenetics here, and I wish they would have expanded on that. I have no clue what they mean about the protein, though:

Even if you eat small portions, there are such things as “bad” foods, and even a small amount of a bad thing does not equal a good thing. “The food you eat affects your proteins and genes long after it has passed out of your body,” says YouBeauty co-founder Dr. Michael Roizen. “For example, if you consume too much sugar it changes your protein structure for the entire life of that protein, which is 180 days -- so that means that the protein stops doing its job for 180 days.”

No clue. I believe it's from the book he co-authored with Dr. Oz - You the Owner's Manual.
[/quote}

Both doctors, (I think) are MDs, not molecular or microbiologists, or whoever would know this stuff in depth. In fact, most MDs have extremely little training in nutrition.

AlbertPooHoles

I love tartar sauce.

Do you overindulge?

Sometimes. Then, I cry. Then, I eat more tartar sauce. Then...

Tartar sauce made me cry one time. I thought it was ranch dressing.. boy was I surprised.

Damn -- that's rough.

luvsherhubby

The DR is not supporting everything in moderation by saying this- he is saying stop couting calories as in I only ate 1200 calories but i only ate 3 peices of pizza 2 glasse sof soda and a snicker bar, and start choosing healthier foods and you dont have to count calories- like what he said about the nuts- dont worry that the nuts are high calorie because they are good for you- choose nuts over soda. I think you can still loose weight eating bad- but I dont think its healthier. I just understood what he was tryna say

Le_Joy

I think that article only applies to people who use that as an excuse to eat whatever they want whenever they want. If I get 1 ice cream bar that is 150 cals like 2-3 times a week and it fits into my cals then I think that is fine. If I want to eat an entire container of ice cream even just once a week and do more exercise to make up then I don't think that would work as well.

tsh0ck

I don't understand why people can't just learn to enjoy healthy foods? After eating clean for a few weeks, my body completely rejects any kind of burger or fries. Whenever I crave a treat, I crave something like a smoothie or homemade granola bars.

Anyway, I guess I could agree with this article. I've lost weight from just restricting calories but eating junk. When I restrict calories AND eat healthy though, I feel much better about myself, which makes me choose healthy rather than junk. I guess it's just personal experience/opinion.

because I'm 33 years old. I've already learned most of the foods I like and don't like. sure. there may be some that change or that I haven't tried. but, in general, I know. and I know I want to enjoy the taste of my food rather than having to plug my nose and force it down. I refuse to be miserable while eating a meal.

txbutterfly69

Life is too short to sweat the small stuff. :-) I make healthier choices, cook often, and on occasion if I'm invited to a party, I eat a piece of sweet or have that glass of wine, etc.

Life is meant to be enjoyed and not worry so much of what you can and can't eat. That's my motto and I'm sticking to it. :-D

For every "bad" food out there, somebody has come out with a healthier version.

Even healthier items in excess have disadvantages. Example: Supplements, vitamins, nuts, avocado, fish, fruit, and yes even water. Believe it or not, you can drink too much water. (water intoxication). Even too much exercise is bad for you.

So in response to your question. Moderation is the key to life. :-D

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

I think they're misrepresenting the idea of moderation-- moderation means not too much. The article is saying that people use it as a pass to eat as much junk as they want, and to me, that's not "everything in moderation" at all. It's more like "only bad things in excess."

vjrose

I agree with amberlangeleni, they are I think after reading the whole article saying that those who say, "yeah, I only eat 1200 calories" but it's all junk is a bad idea while I don't think they addressed at all the idea of occassionally have a small treat and being under. As long as most of the food you eat is healthy, all is well. Reminds me of a poster who said she is losing just fine eating nothing but junk food but only eating 1200 a day. Sure she's losing weight but how healthy is she

cpiton

I hate to bring up Prof. Haub, but... :ohwell:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html

Of course, this is only one man's experience, but I found his conclusions interesting.

Personal experience: I've lost nearly 50lbs eating what I want (while maintaining a calorie deficit) and exercising. That includes the occasional dessert and oversized chunk of french bread dipped in balsamic and olive oil. Yum!

I do see the merit of eating healthy, I'm constantly making good changes to my diet as I learn more. I just can't see living the rest of my life without buttercream frosting on my birthday cake. But to each his own. :drinker:


Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

Silverkittycat

nkziv

I agree. Sometimes it is just easier to abstain and not give yourself the option of going overboard.

aranchmom

because I'm 33 years old. I've already learned most of the foods I like and don't like. sure. there may be some that change or that I haven't tried. but, in general, I know. and I know I want to enjoy the taste of my food rather than having to plug my nose and force it down. I refuse to be miserable while eating a meal.

Me too.

flyawaybyebye

If you are exclusively concerned with weight loss, just eat fewer calories. Eventually, you'll lose weight, although you'll probably look and feel terrible if you do it eating nothing but cake and cookies. If you want to be healthy instead of sickly, eat good, healthy foods. If you want to be healthy and thin, eat good, healthy foods in reasonable quantities for your metabolic needs. It's not that complicated.