Vinegars Can Help You Stay Lean and Fit

G30Grrl

What if I was write, and the citation was lying?

It's very difficult to take someone claiming to have superior knowledge seriously when a) they seem to have very little knowledge of spelling or grammar, and b) they claim to be 'majoring' in science, yet have no respect for citations and stoop to the level of retorts such as "What if I'm wright [sic]?" when challenged to provide citations.

gstauder

Thanks!

G30Grrl

Oh, and by the way, I enjoy a variety of vinegars, not because I think they are miracle foods, but because I love the taste. My cupboards & refrigerator host Bragg's apple cider vinegar, red wine, white wine, regular balsamic, black cherry balsamic (YUM!!) and raspberry balsamic vinegars.

LabRat529

Thank you for your indepth information. This post was about vinegars used in moderation. I dont want a debate on pH and buffering systems. I simply enjoy vinegars.

I consume vinegar too, The problem I have is when people are told things that aren't true, and end up damaging themselves. IIf someone knows something is bad for them and they choose to consume it, that's fine. The issue I have is when people believe something is good for them and it's not. As you know there are a ton of myths we believed in the health and fitness community. I have been victims of them too. It's just not right.

But vinegar is NOT bad for you. It's actually quite good for you. It's just not going to change the pH of our bodies and it's not going to burn fat.... other than that... it's absolutely a healthy choice.

Here's the problem... on once side we've got people claiming it's a miracle food... and then you actually are claiming it's dangerous... and neither claim is true.

The truth lies in the middle. It usually does.

Kenzietea2

balsamic is amazing on salads

dedication6

BUMP

karinapeterson

How strange, My mother was just telling me last night to try aplle cider vinegar. Her and Dad are having a go and seeing what affect it has hehe. My turn now thanks for confirming more of what she said

ssb1004

I drink apple cider vinegar but I water it down alittle. I also make cucumber and onions and let them soak in apple cider vinegar and water mixture, great low calorie snack.

shellicious777

Dr Oz recommends a "shot" of vinegar a day. How much should a person ingest on a daily basis?
I have acid reflux badly. I am drinking the "green juice" from "fat sick and nearly dead" it upsets my stomach but I deal with it. Would a "shot" of vinegar a day help stop my acid reflux?

LabRat529

I am assuming you have experience or knowledge of an alkalizing style diet. I am not saying i disagree with you. You talked often about excess. The body protects itself as you know. I think you mentioned alpha lipoic acid. Which is an acid. The over consumption of lkalizing products or acids will be harmful. the key is to find a balance. An alkalizing diet is recommended to be 70-80% alkaline 20-30% acidic. Of course there are acidic functions in the body which are necessary.

No, actually... I don't know about an alkalizing diet. I've heard the claims on MFP but I've never seen anything that I consider credible evidence. If you can explain the rational to me, please do so. I even started a thread about it (so that we can stop hijacking the vinegar thread). You'll find it here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/476882-blood-ph

I would love to know if my basic assumptions are wrong. I really would... but until then, I firmly believe the concept of an alkalizing diet is... well.. voodoo.

I AM open to solid, scientific evidence to the contrary. I DO try to reign in my biases. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I want solid data before I change my mind. I want someone to show me cause and effect. I want someone to show me that you can measure pH changes in the blood or interstitial fluid or even the cell in response to diet.

I DO know of times when pH will change in the body on a microlevel. pH changes in neurons signal impending doom. It's bad (usually). Brain cells don't like pH changes.

bsteffneyjr

I believe in an alkaline diet as well, i incorporate alkaline water from my water ionizer and drink a ton of it for about 3 years now. I know there are people who don't believe in the concept of alkaline water, but they have been using them to help treat all types of medical ailments caused by over acidity in Asia for nearly 30 years as medical devices with good success.

Bottom line is it is important to pay attention to this and stay away from soda and other highly acidic drinks and foods for the most part as it will affect your bones and overall health.

Espressocycle

I'm pretty sure this vingegar thing is junk science. Your stomach is already full of powerful acid, so I doubt adding a little more is going to do a thing. Unpasteurized vinegar might contain some active enzymes I guess.

sunnyday789

Thank you for your post. A high-protein, high-fat diet increases the alkalnity in the blood, causing it to thicken. Apple cider vinegar affects the acid-alkali balance. It thins the blood, which may help lower blood pressure and improve blood circulation.

Today american diets are high in meat and lower in alkalizing fruits and vegetables and this leaves a acid residue in the body. The acid residue, in turn, imbalances our biochemistry or pH blood levels in a direction where we are out of acid-alkalin balance. And that can lead to high blood pressure and other heart ailments.

Thus, it is necessary for us to eat as much vegetables as possible to prevent acidity in your body fluid, which can result from too much animal protien.

No offense... but this is all pseudoscience. I've looked. I can't find any evidence that DIET effects blood pH at all. The pH of your blood is regulated by your respiratory system, not by the food you eat.

I understand, you're looking in the wrong places, because it's not about the blood. It is, but it isn't. Of course if the pH of blood drifts to far from a pH of 7.365 it will lead to death. The problem is the buffering systems.

I know you have your pH in pharmacy or something like that. So I can talk to you on a biochemical level. I can approach this from the acidic side of the alkaline side. People think macro nutrients run the body, when in fact it's electrons. You can't deny with out electrons there would be no bonds to make micro/macro nutrients. You know that the body runs on electrons. H+ is a positive ion. H+ is acidic, OH-(alkaline) Is negatively charged. It has more electrons, When people consume alkalizing foods, common sense is that it turns in to salt and water with stomach acid. What are salts? They are ions.The more negative ions you consume the better. This is what will be absorbed in the body, this is what runs the body, negative electrons. Electricity is electrons, the body runs on electricity. Foods can be measured in mV(milvolts). Foods that have a positive charge are acidic foods, foods that have a negative charge are alkaline. If you Make a solution with NaCl, it will power a lightbulb. This is how batterys work,. The electrons transfer to the positive side. Neutralizing the positive charge. Once the cation has no charge. Electrons won't flow and there will be no more energy. As I said energy is electron based. Digestion starts in the mouth, not the stomach. Your saliva can be tested with pH strips. If you're in a alkalizing state your blood would be more alkalizing which aids in the digestion process, this alkalinity will travel to the stomach, making Salt and water. These anions of salt, is what gets absorbed through the body. Which would keep the alkalizing cycle going. The cause of most disease as i stated, is caused by the body "protecting" the blood. The pH of the blood won't change, if it did you will die. It's the buffering systems which cause the damage.

Citation needed...otherwise you may as well be making this up.

What if I was write, and the citation was lying?

Thank you for your indepth information. This post was about vinegars used in moderation. I dont want a debate on pH and buffering systems. I simply enjoy vinegars.

Well, actually you stated that vinegar could help lower blood pressure, decrease blood sugar, lower insulin levels, help you lose weight, and detoxify the body, and act as a blood purifier. So then peeople posted regarding the actions/benefits of vinegar in the body.

hernoodlyness

What if I was write, and the citation was lying?

It's very difficult to take someone claiming to have superior knowledge seriously when a) they seem to have very little knowledge of spelling or grammar, and b) they claim to be 'majoring' in science, yet have no respect for citations and stoop to the level of retorts such as "What if I'm wright [sic]?" when challenged to provide citations.

What does spelling have to do with science? Maybe I was just drunk when i wrote that? I read it sober and I have no idea how i wrote what I wrote last night. which i was. I know i am a bad speller and suck at grammar, so what?? Doesn't mean I am not knowledgeable in my field. Some of the most educated people i know are not good at spelling. One of my math professors has a PhD in mathematics, but he couldn't spell worth squat.

When i said "What if I am right?" The point is where ever you get your information from, it can be inaccurate. Isn't that how the "fat is bad for you" myth started, it was based on "credible research" but it was all lies, and misleading.

I have seen personally people lie, in lab reports. I have even seen 2 exact same situations that produce opposite results. So who's right??? If I did I conducted a study and i published it, and everyone thought it was this great study and started to preach it people will obey it as if it's the word of god. What if the person who did the same study with different results, and people followed that. Who's wrong?!?!?! Studies can be misleading and easily misinterpreted. A good example is cholestrol It was evil, if you consumed it you where on a "bad diet" but a lot of bodily functions run on cholesterol. Muscle mass can be very dependent on cholesterol levels. Yet if you had high cholesterol levels you're "unhealthy." These examples are based on "Scientific studies" people followed these, and they where inaccurate and misleading.

Your spelling is not the problem- but bad spelling and grammar does not do justice to your argument. We all have silly spelling days (I cringe at some of mine).

The point is that you are peddling something that has no scientific verification. What if you were right? Well, that would be lovely. But the burden of proof is on you. So again: where is the peer reviewed scientific support for your assertions? You seem to confuse many physiological concepts in your explanation. You also seem to have a misconception of how rigorous scientific testing, reproducibility and peer review operate...

Saying that, I am addicted to vinegar. All kinds and flavours! But vinegar for the sake of vinegar and nothing else

DonJG

(snip)
The point is that you are peddling something that has no scientific verification. What if you were right? Well, that would be lovely. But the burden of proof is on you. So again: where is the peer reviewed scientific support for your assertions? You seem to confuse many physiological concepts in your explanation. You also seem to have a misconception of how rigorous scientific testing, reproducibility and peer review operate...

Saying that, I am addicted to vinegar. All kinds and flavours! But vinegar for the sake of vinegar and nothing else

This is the most intelligent post in this whole thread. All health claims HAVE to be backed with scientific evidence. Simply writing, "People from all walks of life believe apple rich apple cider vinegar aids digestion, helps maintain weight, and keeps blood pressure down, etc." is not scientific evidence. People from all walks of life believe in UFOs, ghosts and a secret island where Jimi Hendrix, Bruce Lee and Adolph Hitler are still alive. Belief does not equal fact. Anecdotal evidence does not equal fact. It seems to me that this thread is just one junk science group, Pro Vinegar is battling another junk science group, Pro Alkaline Diet. What gets me is people writing "Great post!" and "Good info" in response to someone spouting the latest "miracle" fad. Because if you read it on the internet it must be true, right? I had a friend send me an email about lemon juice being more effective in fighting cancer than chemotherapy. The same friend later sent my an email on the benefits of alkaline water treatment and the dangers of acids. Last I checked lemon juice is very acidic. But she believed both emails and forwarded them along to all her friends. It's amazing what people will believe just because they read it on the internet or because their neighbor told them something "worked for them" and how they're so quick to regurgitate the crap they read on the internet so that others can "benefit" from their great information.

AlbertPooHoles

I've seen a love of vinegar lead to some crazy relationship threads. :sick:

hernoodlyness

What if I was write, and the citation was lying?

It's very difficult to take someone claiming to have superior knowledge seriously when a) they seem to have very little knowledge of spelling or grammar, and b) they claim to be 'majoring' in science, yet have no respect for citations and stoop to the level of retorts such as "What if I'm wright [sic]?" when challenged to provide citations.

What does spelling have to do with science? Maybe I was just drunk when i wrote that? I read it sober and I have no idea how i wrote what I wrote last night. which i was. I know i am a bad speller and suck at grammar, so what?? Doesn't mean I am not knowledgeable in my field. Some of the most educated people i know are not good at spelling. One of my math professors has a PhD in mathematics, but he couldn't spell worth squat.

When i said "What if I am right?" The point is where ever you get your information from, it can be inaccurate. Isn't that how the "fat is bad for you" myth started, it was based on "credible research" but it was all lies, and misleading.

I have seen personally people lie, in lab reports. I have even seen 2 exact same situations that produce opposite results. So who's right??? If I did I conducted a study and i published it, and everyone thought it was this great study and started to preach it people will obey it as if it's the word of god. What if the person who did the same study with different results, and people followed that. Who's wrong?!?!?! Studies can be misleading and easily misinterpreted. A good example is cholestrol It was evil, if you consumed it you where on a "bad diet" but a lot of bodily functions run on cholesterol. Muscle mass can be very dependent on cholesterol levels. Yet if you had high cholesterol levels you're "unhealthy." These examples are based on "Scientific studies" people followed these, and they where inaccurate and misleading.

Your spelling is not the problem- but bad spelling and grammar does not do justice to your argument. We all have silly spelling days (I cringe at some of mine).

The point is that you are peddling something that has no scientific verification. What if you were right? Well, that would be lovely. But the burden of proof is on you. So again: where is the peer reviewed scientific support for your assertions? You seem to confuse many physiological concepts in your explanation. You also seem to have a misconception of how rigorous scientific testing, reproducibility and peer review operate...

Saying that, I am addicted to vinegar. All kinds and flavours! But vinegar for the sake of vinegar and nothing else

I know how scientific research works, the person who pays the most money gets the data they want.

I don't think i talked about magnesium in the above post, but part of body process to maintain a blood pH is the use of calcium from bone.

Acidosis can be tested with urine.
here's a study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2585554/

Many thanks for this! Will read and reply tomorrow....it is quite late in this hemisphere. Have a good evening/day!

hernoodlyness

[
[/quote]

I know how scientific research works, the person who pays the most money gets the data they want.



[/quote]

That is simply not true.

Sabineslims

I love sherry vinegar. I live in southern Spain in the sherry triangle. I had never had sherry vinegar before moving here. I went home to the US for a few weeks and I could not find it anywhere. I am sure it is available at specialty shops. It is such a shame that it wasn't easily located. It's so delicious. I love it used on salads with olive oil. Perfection.

killagb

I love sherry vinegar. I live in southern Spain in the sherry triangle. I had never had sherry vinegar before moving here. I went home to the US for a few weeks and I could not find it anywhere. I am sure it is available at specialty shops. It is such a shame that it wasn't easily located. It's so delicious. I love it used on salads with olive oil. Perfection.

DonJG

I know how scientific research works, the person who pays the most money gets the data they want.

I don't think i talked about magnesium in the above post, but part of body process to maintain a blood pH is the use of calcium from bone.

Acidosis can be tested with urine.
here's a study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2585554/

Based on your explanation of how scientific research works, the study you quoted got the data they wanted by paying the most money. Correct? Did Genuine Health Inc pay to get the results of the study?

DonJG

ha

Touché!

DonJG

One was the study you linked here, which seeks to prove that, "Plant based dietary supplement increases urinary pH". It does not seek to prove that a diet high in acidic food is harmful. Another study focused specifically on "children with classic renal tubular acidosis", which has no relevance to healthy people. I skimmed the third, which seemed to deal with exercise performance and thus, has nothing to with the topic at hand. If I understand your position correctly, you are trying to demonstrate that a diet that includes acidic foods will "kill you". Can you please link to a study that supports that statement?

Here is some reading for you:

Your Friday Dose of Woo: Acid, base, or woo?
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/09/your_friday_dose_of_woo_acid_base_or_woo_1.php

Acid/Alkaline Theory of Disease Is Nonsense
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html

Your Urine is Not a Window to Your Body: pH Balancing – A Failed Hypothesis
http://sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpress.com/2009/11/13/your-urine-is-not-a-window-to-your-body-ph-balancing-a-failed-hypothesis/

The other thread on this site you linked to was interesting. I was happy to see such intelligent posts by people not buying into the hooey. Is that how you spell hooey?

Anyway, have a nice weekend!